link2twenty
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Post by link2twenty on Dec 8, 2019 14:36:04 GMT
The success of Jedi: Fallen Order, a game that is story focused, microtransaction free and single player only is huge step forward for us Mass Effect fans. Once EA recognise there is money to be made in this manor they will give Bioware the freedom and budget to make an amazing Mass Effect game.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 8, 2019 16:16:23 GMT
BioWare before Jade Empire had multiplayer in their games so don't count on things being single player only because another game was released without it.
We don't know how successful Fallen Order really is. EA boasted that Battlefront 1 and 2 combined have sold over 33 million copies since their launch and they are still releasing content for Battlefront 2 so there are still enough people buying the game and probably buying stuff in the game for EA to still make content for it.
We as people outside EA/BioWare don't know the real numbers or how EA is going to evaluate those numbers either. I have seen a lot of pundits giving Fallen Order's success part credit to The Mandalorian and its success, its Christmas season, or potential excitement for Episode 9. Combine that with we really don't know where past BioWare games successes were. If MTX MP is what saved Andromeda from being a financial problem I don't see EA wanting to ditch that concept because its a safety rope because a Star Wars game did well. Especially when you can evaluate how people reacted to both games and how the narrative shaped around them.
The other game being forgotten here is also the new Need for Speed game which also didn't have any in game transactions either. So if that game doesn't do well it could also give EA more information about how to proceed with other games.
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Post by Frost on Dec 8, 2019 18:13:22 GMT
I wish, but Bioware won't even make a single-player-only Dragon Age game, and DA:I's multiplayer was not very popular as compared with ME3's. Sadly, I think there is little hope of ever getting another single-player-only game from Bioware. All they care about is microtransactions at this point.
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Post by Serza on Dec 8, 2019 19:55:57 GMT
Well, it's certainly not bad news.
However, the details remain to be seen.
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link2twenty
N3
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Post by link2twenty on Dec 8, 2019 21:48:54 GMT
We don't know how successful Fallen Order really is. EA boasted that Battlefront 1 and 2 combined have sold over 33 million copies since their launch and they are still releasing content for Battlefront 2 so there are still enough people buying the game and probably buying stuff in the game for EA to still make content for it. . I meant a critical success rather than a financial one, EA has an image problem and this could be a real win for them.
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Sanunes
N6
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 8, 2019 23:17:10 GMT
We don't know how successful Fallen Order really is. EA boasted that Battlefront 1 and 2 combined have sold over 33 million copies since their launch and they are still releasing content for Battlefront 2 so there are still enough people buying the game and probably buying stuff in the game for EA to still make content for it. . I meant a critical success rather than a financial one, EA has an image problem and this could be a real win for them. I doubt it would do anything that way, people look for any possible issue within a BioWare game and then whine and complain about it for days or weeks while giving a pass to other games that have similar issues. Fallen Order has plenty of problems within it, but I don't see it being ripped apart by websites that claim to report on gaming news, but if BioWare released Fallen Order in the state it was in, I am pretty sure we would be having red and blue cupcakes delivered in a few weeks. Edit: Also with the new Need for Speed game there was at least one article I saw that was claiming EA had no faith in the game because they didn't put MTX into the game. So I would expect see that type of narrative being driven for a BioWare game as well and not a more positive one because BioWare has become a punching bag. If BioWare somehow makes a game that people will accept as good I am pretty sure regardless of what is in it with MTX or multiplayer it would get the same type of praise that Fallen Order has.
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Post by skekSil on Dec 9, 2019 0:11:23 GMT
I doubt it would do anything that way, people look for any possible issue within a BioWare game and then whine and complain about it for days or weeks while giving a pass to other games that have similar issues. Fallen Order has plenty of problems within it, but I don't see it being ripped apart by websites that claim to report on gaming news, but if BioWare released Fallen Order in the state it was in, I am pretty sure we would be having red and blue cupcakes delivered in a few weeks. Remember that Anthem store leak not long before its release? People made a lot of noise about overpriced skins and then it turned out to be nothing. People seem to nitpick every minor detail and gloat at every hurdle when it comes to certain companies and franchises.
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 10, 2019 16:46:11 GMT
While I wouldn't shed a tear for the death of multiplayer in BioWare games, I don't think multiplayer necessarily disrupts the experience either. For any issues Andromeda might have, I don't believe multiplayer was one of them, at least not beyond some sort of "principle". It had no effect on the campaign, and its singleplayer tie-in amounts to little more than some extra dialogue with an NPC and freebie loot, which is worlds better than ME3's implementation of it. Funny enough, people still play MEAMP. I've managed to get full lobbies consistently. I think Mass Effect lends itself well to a basic co-op system to tack on to the base game. All that matters is that EA/BioWare don't lose sight of it and try to create a fucking MMO.
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Post by michaelm on Dec 10, 2019 20:03:44 GMT
EA is still a for profit company, and they know that a lot of money over time is preferable to a lot of money at one time. Games as a Service, no matter the backlash, is not going away, because there will always be people who will spend hundreds on a game they play instead of just $60. Its sad.
Still you are right, Fallen Order's success is evidence that the classic singleplayer story teller is still wanted by gamers. Just including some kind of multiplayer wouldnt hurt.
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 10, 2019 22:30:56 GMT
EA is still a for profit company, and they know that a lot of money over time is preferable to a lot of money at one time. Games as a Service, no matter the backlash, is not going away, because there will always be people who will spend hundreds on a game they play instead of just $60. Its sad. Still you are right, Fallen Order's success is evidence that the classic singleplayer story teller is still wanted by gamers. Just including some kind of multiplayer wouldnt hurt. I agree, and as a hardcore Destiny player, I can appreciate the value. It's just that some products, I feel, may lend better to a different model than others. I'm actually content with the most recent model implemented in Andromeda, and wouldn't mind that they stayed that route, so long as the base campaign content is good and an adequate length to justify its asking price. I'm always concerned though that they'll one day lean too hard on the service part, and basically abandon the other. I love that Fallen Order exists as a reminder that the game sold as-is to be played as a self-contained game hasn't lost its value.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 10, 2019 23:31:08 GMT
While I wouldn't shed a tear for the death of multiplayer in BioWare games, I don't think multiplayer necessarily disrupts the experience either. For any issues Andromeda might have, I don't believe multiplayer was one of them, at least not beyond some sort of "principle". It had no effect on the campaign, and its singleplayer tie-in amounts to little more than some extra dialogue with an NPC and freebie loot, which is worlds better than ME3's implementation of it. Funny enough, people still play MEAMP. I've managed to get full lobbies consistently. I think Mass Effect lends itself well to a basic co-op system to tack on to the base game. All that matters is that EA/BioWare don't lose sight of it and try to create a fucking MMO. I think and hope th esuccess of Fallen Order will help though in Bioware's case in maybe EA allowing them to do things like what they used to d olike in making largely SP games wit ha few DLC's here and there to make a fwe extra bucks. The last game they were allowed to do that with was DAI but they were allowed to do it with the trilogy and of course both the ME trilogy and DAI were both great successes no tjust for Biowaer but EA as well I'd like to think. I think the main issue EA has had is they've grown too attached to having MP and things like Fifa's Ultimat eteam and things in all their games to get them the money they want so have tried throwing that kind of thing into every game they make. I think and hope that the success of the Jedi Fallen Order game will semd htem a message that the ydon't necessarliy need to do that. If the game is compelling enough and they can make som egood compelling DLC such as the Shadow Broker DLC for ME2 or the Citadel DLC for ME3 or even Trespasser for DAI to go with it if they wantto make more out of the game that should be good enough to get them the money they want. I'm not sayingthat they can't add things like MP or even cosmetic microtransactions but they should be added as extras rather than the main focus of hte game for those tha twant something a little different after finishing with the SP.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 11, 2019 2:52:40 GMT
While I wouldn't shed a tear for the death of multiplayer in BioWare games, I don't think multiplayer necessarily disrupts the experience either. For any issues Andromeda might have, I don't believe multiplayer was one of them, at least not beyond some sort of "principle". It had no effect on the campaign, and its singleplayer tie-in amounts to little more than some extra dialogue with an NPC and freebie loot, which is worlds better than ME3's implementation of it. Funny enough, people still play MEAMP. I've managed to get full lobbies consistently. I think Mass Effect lends itself well to a basic co-op system to tack on to the base game. All that matters is that EA/BioWare don't lose sight of it and try to create a fucking MMO. I think and hope th esuccess of Fallen Order will help though in Bioware's case in maybe EA allowing them to do things like what they used to d olike in making largely SP games wit ha few DLC's here and there to make a fwe extra bucks. The last game they were allowed to do that with was DAI but they were allowed to do it with the trilogy and of course both the ME trilogy and DAI were both great successes no tjust for Biowaer but EA as well I'd like to think. I think the main issue EA has had is they've grown too attached to having MP and things like Fifa's Ultimat eteam and things in all their games to get them the money they want so have tried throwing that kind of thing into every game they make. I think and hope that the success of the Jedi Fallen Order game will semd htem a message that the ydon't necessarliy need to do that. If the game is compelling enough and they can make som egood compelling DLC such as the Shadow Broker DLC for ME2 or the Citadel DLC for ME3 or even Trespasser for DAI to go with it if they wantto make more out of the game that should be good enough to get them the money they want. I'm not sayingthat they can't add things like MP or even cosmetic microtransactions but they should be added as extras rather than the main focus of hte game for those tha twant something a little different after finishing with the SP. The problem I have when people say "like BioWare used to" is things like MP weren't a new experience for BioWare. They had a much longer tradition of MP in their games prior to Jade Empire and back then people were upset that BioWare dropped MP from their games because it hurt the value they saw in it. Casey Hudson even said in an interview back after Mass Effect 1 that they were looking for a way to implement it in Mass Effect 1. Besides MP in a BioWare game is a drastically different thing the what they are doing for FIFA and Madden. So in my eyes it becomes a situation where who should BioWare listen to since both sides want BioWare to cater to what they want. One group wants MP and another doesn't.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 11, 2019 3:29:58 GMT
I think and hope th esuccess of Fallen Order will help though in Bioware's case in maybe EA allowing them to do things like what they used to d olike in making largely SP games wit ha few DLC's here and there to make a fwe extra bucks. The last game they were allowed to do that with was DAI but they were allowed to do it with the trilogy and of course both the ME trilogy and DAI were both great successes no tjust for Biowaer but EA as well I'd like to think. I think the main issue EA has had is they've grown too attached to having MP and things like Fifa's Ultimat eteam and things in all their games to get them the money they want so have tried throwing that kind of thing into every game they make. I think and hope that the success of the Jedi Fallen Order game will semd htem a message that the ydon't necessarliy need to do that. If the game is compelling enough and they can make som egood compelling DLC such as the Shadow Broker DLC for ME2 or the Citadel DLC for ME3 or even Trespasser for DAI to go with it if they wantto make more out of the game that should be good enough to get them the money they want. I'm not sayingthat they can't add things like MP or even cosmetic microtransactions but they should be added as extras rather than the main focus of hte game for those tha twant something a little different after finishing with the SP. The problem I have when people say "like BioWare used to" is things like MP weren't a new experience for BioWare. They had a much longer tradition of MP in their games prior to Jade Empire and back then people were upset that BioWare dropped MP from their games because it hurt the value they saw in it. Casey Hudson even said in an interview back after Mass Effect 1 that they were looking for a way to implement it in Mass Effect 1. Besides MP in a BioWare game is a drastically different thing the what they are doing for FIFA and Madden. So in my eyes it becomes a situation where who should BioWare listen to since both sides want BioWare to cater to what they want. One group wants MP and another doesn't. I know I think the main reason why it wasn' tincluded in ME1 was mostly becaus that was the first time Bioware had quite literally made what you might call a shooter RPG and I think they wanted to make sure they had a system that works and that the players were happy with whereas by the time ME3 came around they had more experience and discoverd a system that works which obviously got carried over to MEA. The only thing that is different really with regards MEA and ME3 is MEA's MP doesn' thave a big impac ton the singleplayer outside of giving you a fwe extra resources if you need it. Whereas ME3's conrtols the whole galactics readiness level of SP. I don't play the MP much though I do give it a go from time to time just for something different but I can understand why others enjoy it. I perfer usually t ojust stick t othe SP playing with different buildsand using the strike teams fo rthe extra resources in MEA and I use the N7HQ site to beef up ME3. Managed to get quite a fwe useful resources for my character in my last MEA playthrough from the strike teams. Whilst I don't play MP in general I don' t begrudge it being there for those that do but as I said it should b ether as an extra because it's the need for extra money EA has or at least how EA feels about it that the yfeel the need to exploit it. If EA are going to stop an dchange then they need to be sent appropriate messages. I think to some extent the Anthem experiment going as poorly as it has combined with Jedi's success can only lead t o1 conclusion .At least to me i tseems to indicate that EA needs to concentrate more on giving us good SP games like JFO rather than wasting time and effort on experimental MMO's that may struggle. I have Anthem and in some ways I do like it though I haven' tplayed it for a while as MMO's aren't really my thing and I've just been busy elsewhere but I agree that in some ways it must have fallen short otherwise they wouldn' t be thinking about rejigging it
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Post by tatann on Dec 16, 2019 9:37:04 GMT
I think it proves other studios (Respawn, Obsidian, Spiders, ...) can do good single player action/RPG/story games, and I wouldn't mind the IP to be implemented by one of these studios, even for a spin-off / stand-alone / non-trilogy implementation
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Post by saandrig on Dec 16, 2019 10:40:06 GMT
You can also point to AC Odyssey, Outer Worlds, Greedfall, heck, even RDR2 and Disco Elysium as recent and successful single player RPGs. EA won't care. Even a disaster of a MTX+MP game has very good odds to generate more income than a blockbuster SP title.
What EA sees is that Bioware's SP games are niche. And the most successful ones to date are ME3 (mostly because of MP) and DAI (no idea if the MP there generated good income). And when we say "successful", it's just by comparison to the older Bioware games. Probably all of Bioware's games put together won't come close to what a single FIFA (maybe even Madden) game generates. All of Bioware's games won't even come close to Battlefront 1+2.
A Bioware pure SP game needs to has the chance to be Skyrim, Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, RDR2 big or at least at the AC Odyssey level. Otherwise I doubt EA will give their underdog studio the green light for it. And with Bioware's reputation in the mud, the chances for that are pretty low.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 16, 2019 12:35:49 GMT
You can also point to AC Odyssey, Outer Worlds, Greedfall, heck, even RDR2 and Disco Elysium as recent and successful single player RPGs. EA won't care. Even a disaster of a MTX+MP game has very good odds to generate more income than a blockbuster SP title.
What EA sees is that Bioware's SP games are niche. And the most successful ones to date are ME3 (mostly because of MP) and DAI (no idea if the MP there generated good income). And when we say "successful", it's just by comparison to the older Bioware games. Probably all of Bioware's games put together won't come close to what a single FIFA (maybe even Madden) game generates. All of Bioware's games won't even come close to Battlefront 1+2.
A Bioware pure SP game needs to has the chance to be Skyrim, Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, RDR2 big or at least at the AC Odyssey level. Otherwise I doubt EA will give their underdog studio the green light for it. And with Bioware's reputation in the mud, the chances for that are pretty low.
I think Bioware's position has a tleast been partially caused by EA and their management tbh not entirely Bioware's fault. Because I think at least in the case of MEA if it had at least anothe r6 months or so in the oven i twould never have recieved the reception it got. I get th efeelin that had Bioware been allowed t owork on it till the October/November before releasing it never would have got th ereception it did as it would have been released more in the state it is now bnecause in the state it's in now I find it's a pretty fun and decent game.
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Post by Gileadan on Dec 16, 2019 12:37:04 GMT
It might be an odd coincidence, but one or two days after I finished Jedi: Fallen Order, I found an EA questionaire in my inbox. The most interesting questions related to whether I preferred a competitive vs co op experience, story driven vs sandbox, single player vs multiplayer and so on. At least a tiny part of EA seems to be at least a little bit curious. I ticked all the right boxes of course.
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Post by saandrig on Dec 16, 2019 13:08:23 GMT
I think Bioware's position has a tleast been partially caused by EA and their management tbh not entirely Bioware's fault. Because I think at least in the case of MEA if it had at least anothe r6 months or so in the oven i twould never have recieved the reception it got. I get th efeelin that had Bioware been allowed t owork on it till the October/November before releasing it never would have got th ereception it did as it would have been released more in the state it is now bnecause in the state it's in now I find it's a pretty fun and decent game. Well, Bioware had what, 5 years to work on MEA? Most of it was wasted and the game was rushed in a year and a half to finally meet a release date. The game was finished because EA said "We are releasing it". If there wasn't a deadline, the game probably wouldn't have been made or would have been in a worse state around the launch date. And frankly, the final verdict would have been the same since you can't fix the story, the lack of good quests and setting in 6 months. It needed much more time than that, even some general overhaul.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 16, 2019 13:30:53 GMT
I think Bioware's position has a tleast been partially caused by EA and their management tbh not entirely Bioware's fault. Because I think at least in the case of MEA if it had at least anothe r6 months or so in the oven i twould never have recieved the reception it got. I get th efeelin that had Bioware been allowed t owork on it till the October/November before releasing it never would have got th ereception it did as it would have been released more in the state it is now bnecause in the state it's in now I find it's a pretty fun and decent game. Well, Bioware had what, 5 years to work on MEA? Most of it was wasted and the game was rushed in a year and a half to finally meet a release date. The game was finished because EA said "We are releasing it". If there wasn't a deadline, the game probably wouldn't have been made or would have been in a worse state around the launch date. And frankly, the final verdict would have been the same since you can't fix the story, the lack of good quests and setting in 6 months. It needed much more time than that, even some general overhaul. The story side of it is subjective as I never had a problem with it and in fact I liked the story the only issues I had when it released were the bugs the majority of which are fixed now. So I don't think it would hav ebeen in a worse state. It was released when it was to meet financial targets I think not because the game was or wasn't ready. Especially as the team aftrewards was moved t owork on EA's big money spinner Battlefront 2 so t ome tha tindicates what for me was their real focus. I'm not asying Bioware aer completely blameless as the ydid mismanage the project with wha tthey were trying to d oand spending so much time trying to get it to work but I'm just saying that EA at least partialy does share part of that blame for me by not giving them more time to polish it and correct the lingering bugs because another 6 months would at least have given them the chance t ofix the worst of them henc eallowin hte game to get a better reception.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Dec 16, 2019 14:42:26 GMT
We don't know how successful Fallen Order really is. EA boasted that Battlefront 1 and 2 combined have sold over 33 million copies since their launch and they are still releasing content for Battlefront 2 so there are still enough people buying the game and probably buying stuff in the game for EA to still make content for it. . I meant a critical success rather than a financial one, EA has an image problem and this could be a real win for them.
The sad truth is: The people running EA don't give a shit about about their games being critical success and EA's image problem as long as the company makes money for them and the shareholders they will be happy.
The critical success of a game is just some free publicity and/or marketing, too them it's something that they plaster on the box art and/or can stick in/on various ads and trailers.
As long as EA's image problems don't hurt the bottom line they don't care if people consider then the worst company in North America or the greatest company in North America, now obliviously they would prefer the latter over the former but as long as they make money they don't care.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 16, 2019 23:07:58 GMT
I meant a critical success rather than a financial one, EA has an image problem and this could be a real win for them.
The sad truth is: The people running EA don't give a shit about about their games being critical success and EA's image problem as long as the company makes money for them and the shareholders they will be happy.
The critical success of a game is just some free publicity and/or marketing, too them it's something that they plaster on the box art and/or can stick in/on various ads and trailers.
As long as EA's image problems don't hurt the bottom line they don't care if people consider then the worst company in North America or the greatest company in North America, now obliviously they would prefer the latter over the former but as long as they make money they don't care.
That is because frankly critical success means nothing since there aren't standards that these places go by. Just look at how games are criticized anymore so many games get a pass because the online clickbait market won't click on it. I think Bethesda and how media turned on them is a great example for with Fallout 76 they are being ripped apart with the problems in that game, but the sad part is those issues have been pretty common in all of their releases. Even at one point when they keep releasing Skyrim on a new platform there were reviews that pointed out that they didn't bother to fix some of the issues that are frequent problems in the game and still give it a high score. Even look at the difference on how the media examines Frostbite versus Unreal. Both have hurdles and problems, but Frostbite is the one to blame for the ills of any BioWare game and yet other EA developers can do just fine with it. Now with Unreal there is an I/O problem that impacts all platforms where it causes stuttering and freezing while loading new areas if there are a lot of assets to be moved and I haven't seen a single think piece telling us that games that need to load a lot of assets shouldn't be used on the Unreal engine. The critical reception of a game is just too meaningless to care about, a good game is a good game regardless of what a gaming website or even us have to say. It becomes about how many people buy the game simply because its a more accurate measure to know how good a game is if people are buying it. The way people keep complaining about Battlefront 2 you would think it was a complete disaster, but between Battlefront 1 and 2 they have sold over 33 million copies so there has to be people enjoying what it is. Just like with Andromeda how people keep talking about how it bombed, but yet I can go to the game and still get into a MP lobby and fill pretty quick for a game that age if anything its faster then Anthem for me or any of the modern looter shooter games. If critics start actually being neutral and not caring about keeping the click count high then critical reception will mean something, but until that happens its an unreliable narrator due to the amount of flip flopping it does.
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 17, 2019 17:29:33 GMT
The sad truth is: The people running EA don't give a shit about about their games being critical success and EA's image problem as long as the company makes money for them and the shareholders they will be happy.
The critical success of a game is just some free publicity and/or marketing, too them it's something that they plaster on the box art and/or can stick in/on various ads and trailers.
As long as EA's image problems don't hurt the bottom line they don't care if people consider then the worst company in North America or the greatest company in North America, now obliviously they would prefer the latter over the former but as long as they make money they don't care.
That is because frankly critical success means nothing since there aren't standards that these places go by. Just look at how games are criticized anymore so many games get a pass because the online clickbait market won't click on it. I think Bethesda and how media turned on them is a great example for with Fallout 76 they are being ripped apart with the problems in that game, but the sad part is those issues have been pretty common in all of their releases. Even at one point when they keep releasing Skyrim on a new platform there were reviews that pointed out that they didn't bother to fix some of the issues that are frequent problems in the game and still give it a high score. Even look at the difference on how the media examines Frostbite versus Unreal. Both have hurdles and problems, but Frostbite is the one to blame for the ills of any BioWare game and yet other EA developers can do just fine with it. Now with Unreal there is an I/O problem that impacts all platforms where it causes stuttering and freezing while loading new areas if there are a lot of assets to be moved and I haven't seen a single think piece telling us that games that need to load a lot of assets shouldn't be used on the Unreal engine. The critical reception of a game is just too meaningless to care about, a good game is a good game regardless of what a gaming website or even us have to say. It becomes about how many people buy the game simply because its a more accurate measure to know how good a game is if people are buying it. The way people keep complaining about Battlefront 2 you would think it was a complete disaster, but between Battlefront 1 and 2 they have sold over 33 million copies so there has to be people enjoying what it is. Just like with Andromeda how people keep talking about how it bombed, but yet I can go to the game and still get into a MP lobby and fill pretty quick for a game that age if anything its faster then Anthem for me or any of the modern looter shooter games. If critics start actually being neutral and not caring about keeping the click count high then critical reception will mean something, but until that happens its an unreliable narrator due to the amount of flip flopping it does. Fallout 76 is a special case among Bethesda games. It's always been a running gag that their releases are shakier than a wooden roller coaster, but in this instance, we finally got a game where it was nothing but those bugs. Fallout 76 is a wasteland in just about every sense of the word, since Bethesda had the misguided notion that the players would be the "NPC"'s of this game world. It somehow looked no better than 4, but lacked any and all of the intrigue in it as well. Without the stuff to offset the neverending meme that is their janky-ass game engine, what's left is just short of a totally broken product. That's not even starting with their horrible monetization scheme, insulting yearly pass that hilariously didn't work, the infamous canvas bag, list continues...
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Post by Cyberstrike on Dec 22, 2019 15:13:57 GMT
The sad truth is: The people running EA don't give a shit about about their games being critical success and EA's image problem as long as the company makes money for them and the shareholders they will be happy.
The critical success of a game is just some free publicity and/or marketing, too them it's something that they plaster on the box art and/or can stick in/on various ads and trailers.
As long as EA's image problems don't hurt the bottom line they don't care if people consider then the worst company in North America or the greatest company in North America, now obliviously they would prefer the latter over the former but as long as they make money they don't care.
That is because frankly critical success means nothing since there aren't standards that these places go by. Just look at how games are criticized anymore so many games get a pass because the online clickbait market won't click on it. I think Bethesda and how media turned on them is a great example for with Fallout 76 they are being ripped apart with the problems in that game, but the sad part is those issues have been pretty common in all of their releases. Even at one point when they keep releasing Skyrim on a new platform there were reviews that pointed out that they didn't bother to fix some of the issues that are frequent problems in the game and still give it a high score. Even look at the difference on how the media examines Frostbite versus Unreal. Both have hurdles and problems, but Frostbite is the one to blame for the ills of any BioWare game and yet other EA developers can do just fine with it. Now with Unreal there is an I/O problem that impacts all platforms where it causes stuttering and freezing while loading new areas if there are a lot of assets to be moved and I haven't seen a single think piece telling us that games that need to load a lot of assets shouldn't be used on the Unreal engine. The critical reception of a game is just too meaningless to care about, a good game is a good game regardless of what a gaming website or even us have to say. It becomes about how many people buy the game simply because its a more accurate measure to know how good a game is if people are buying it. The way people keep complaining about Battlefront 2 you would think it was a complete disaster, but between Battlefront 1 and 2 they have sold over 33 million copies so there has to be people enjoying what it is. Just like with Andromeda how people keep talking about how it bombed, but yet I can go to the game and still get into a MP lobby and fill pretty quick for a game that age if anything its faster then Anthem for me or any of the modern looter shooter games. If critics start actually being neutral and not caring about keeping the click count high then critical reception will mean something, but until that happens its an unreliable narrator due to the amount of flip flopping it does.
Agreed. But do seriously that that even if the professional video game critics were better at their jobs that Andrew Wilson, the CEO of EA, would honestly give a shit about positive reviews other than as a marketing tool. I think Wilson and the people running EA wouldn't care either way as long as their games make money.
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Post by river82 on Dec 22, 2019 20:39:53 GMT
That is because frankly critical success means nothing since there aren't standards that these places go by. Just look at how games are criticized anymore so many games get a pass because the online clickbait market won't click on it. I think Bethesda and how media turned on them is a great example for with Fallout 76 they are being ripped apart with the problems in that game, but the sad part is those issues have been pretty common in all of their releases. Even at one point when they keep releasing Skyrim on a new platform there were reviews that pointed out that they didn't bother to fix some of the issues that are frequent problems in the game and still give it a high score. Even look at the difference on how the media examines Frostbite versus Unreal. Both have hurdles and problems, but Frostbite is the one to blame for the ills of any BioWare game and yet other EA developers can do just fine with it. Now with Unreal there is an I/O problem that impacts all platforms where it causes stuttering and freezing while loading new areas if there are a lot of assets to be moved and I haven't seen a single think piece telling us that games that need to load a lot of assets shouldn't be used on the Unreal engine. The critical reception of a game is just too meaningless to care about, a good game is a good game regardless of what a gaming website or even us have to say. It becomes about how many people buy the game simply because its a more accurate measure to know how good a game is if people are buying it. The way people keep complaining about Battlefront 2 you would think it was a complete disaster, but between Battlefront 1 and 2 they have sold over 33 million copies so there has to be people enjoying what it is. Just like with Andromeda how people keep talking about how it bombed, but yet I can go to the game and still get into a MP lobby and fill pretty quick for a game that age if anything its faster then Anthem for me or any of the modern looter shooter games. If critics start actually being neutral and not caring about keeping the click count high then critical reception will mean something, but until that happens its an unreliable narrator due to the amount of flip flopping it does.
Agreed. But do seriously that that even if the professional video game critics were better at their jobs that Andrew Wilson, the CEO of EA, would honestly give a shit about positive reviews other than as a marketing tool. I think Wilson and the people running EA wouldn't care either way as long as their games make money.
100% Case in point, some sport games have been trashed in user reviews for years. Go to NBA 2k on Steam (5/10), or find some user reviews for FIFA, and they'll show users think they're horrible games with terrible anti-consumer practices. People keep buying them in droves, however. Probably because the owners of these sport games often hold a MONOPOLY on them, so if players do want to play some basketball they get a choice between a terribly anti-consumer game or nothing. If people want to play a Star Wars shooter they have the choice between an average at best Battlefront 2 game, or nothing. If I started reading a book about a cheerfully inept wannabe detective trying valiantly to solve a crime but screwing up more often than not, and I didn't think that book was great, there's hundreds of other similar books out there to try. OTOH if I were to not like a romance focused, historically inspired fantasy RPG is there another romance focused histor- no there isn't. I guess that may be why emotions run so high in the DA forum. Reviews are pretty meaningless these days and people keep buying games regardless of that fact. In my opinion it's partly because reviews help consumers make a choice, but when there's no choice for the consumer the meaning of reviews is diluted. Contrary to Sanunes opinion Bioware got a pass on a lot of things solely because nobody made games like Bioware. It's helped the audience see past some pretty clunky design in their history (Mass Effect 1 for example. It did well but that game was incredibly unpolished). Games like KOTOR are heralded as masterpieces, but KOTOR2 was better even though it was unfinished. It's easier to create a masterpiece when there's nothing to compare that work to. Now that Bioware has some competition, competition because they leapt into the looter shooter market where they have company, competition because games like the Witcher and Assassins Creed: Origins and even Greedfall gave DA some competition (although Skyrim and HZD did as well ... sorta), they're being viewed more harshly. It must come as a shock to them when they've been the darlings of the industry for so very long.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 22, 2019 21:08:53 GMT
Agreed. But do seriously that that even if the professional video game critics were better at their jobs that Andrew Wilson, the CEO of EA, would honestly give a shit about positive reviews other than as a marketing tool. I think Wilson and the people running EA wouldn't care either way as long as their games make money.
100% Case in point, some sport games have been trashed in user reviews for years. Go to NBA 2k on Steam (5/10), or find some user reviews for FIFA, and they'll show users think they're horrible games with terrible anti-consumer practices. People keep buying them in droves, however. Probably because the owners of these sport games often hold a MONOPOLY on them, so if players do want to play some basketball they get a choice between a terribly anti-consumer game or nothing. If people want to play a Star Wars shooter they have the choice between an average at best Battlefront 2 game, or nothing. If I started reading a book about a cheerfully inept wannabe detective trying valiantly to solve a crime but screwing up more often than not, and I didn't think that book was great, there's hundreds of other similar books out there to try. OTOH if I were to not like a romance focused, historically inspired fantasy RPG is there another romance focused histor- no there isn't. I guess that may be why emotions run so high in the DA forum. Reviews are pretty meaningless these days and people keep buying games regardless of that fact. In my opinion it's partly because reviews help consumers make a choice, but when there's no choice for the consumer the meaning of reviews is diluted. Contrary to Sanunes opinion Bioware got a pass on a lot of things solely because nobody made games like Bioware. It's helped the audience see past some pretty clunky design in their history (Mass Effect 1 for example. It did well but that game was incredibly unpolished). Games like KOTOR are heralded as masterpieces, but KOTOR2 was better even though it was unfinished. It's easier to create a masterpiece when there's nothing to compare that work to. Now that Bioware has some competition, competition because they leapt into the looter shooter market where they have company, competition because games like the Witcher and Assassins Creed: Origins and even Greedfall gave DA some competition (although Skyrim and HZD did as well ... sorta), they're being viewed more harshly. It must come as a shock to them when they've been the darlings of the industry for so very long. Comparing BioWare reviews from a decade ago to what reviewers are giving now is just as bad as not holding games equally. What you describe is passable from a player audience, but not from people that expect money for their reviews. They should be setting a single bar so players know what you are reviewing is equally comparable so there is a consistency so based on prior experiences the player has with other games helps color the review now. I want to know if you didn't like Dragon Age, I know I am not going to like The Witcher because they can be similar on different levels. Not that Dragon Age is a far worse game because its EA now and we want to review it harder because that is what the internet will click on while having similar problems within The Witcher that we cannot mention because the internet will hate us. Besides if people are going to get upset that BioWare has a save game corruption issue in Mass Effect: Andromeda, I expect the same website to be telling me that The Witcher 3 has a similar game corruption issue. Not to play BioWare games have fallen so drastically in their quality card when in the past when you could get stuck in a wall and clip into the atmosphere being a higher quality game then Andromeda. Just look at the problems in Andromeda and the amount of think pieces that were written about those issues and even comparing them to problems other modern AAA games have. I haven't seen any think pieces towards Fallen Jedi where they are ripping apart the game for all its faults and problems and that game is far from unique its just a combination of several other games into something interesting. I nearly vomited the when playing Fallen Order because the elevator sequence bug and yet again nobody seems to make a big deal of that and again "my face is tired" is still something people use against BioWare when that saying fits within the realm of what you would hear a person that speaks French would say.
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