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Post by Iddy on Jan 4, 2020 18:40:39 GMT
This supposedly is a brand new school of magic created for the Inquisitor, even at the cost of a woman's sanity.
So how come Solas, the oldest person on the planet, already knows it? And Clarel, too.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 4, 2020 19:27:51 GMT
This supposedly is a brand new school of magic created for the Inquisitor, even at the cost of a woman's sanity. So how come Solas, the oldest person on the planet, already knows it? And Clarel, too. Wel in the case of Solsas don't forget who he really is he created the fade and the veil we just don't know that until the end of th egame. As for Clarel I suspec the ywere just usimng tha trift as it likely already existed du et owhat Corypheus did. At lesa tthat's what I'd always assumed.
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Post by melbella on Jan 4, 2020 20:56:43 GMT
Rift magic being mostly the same thing as Force magic from DA2, I imagine lots of mages know it.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Jan 5, 2020 11:50:36 GMT
As far as I remember, Clarel only used the RM's version of Stonefist, right? So me guesses she knew the ordinary spell before and just turned into a Tiberium Fade-Fist.
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Post by Sifr on Jan 5, 2020 12:36:39 GMT
This supposedly is a brand new school of magic created for the Inquisitor, even at the cost of a woman's sanity. So how come Solas, the oldest person on the planet, already knows it? And Clarel, too. Rift magic being mostly the same thing as Force magic from DA2, I imagine lots of mages know it.
To answer both the above;
The in-universe explanation is that the Breach changed how magic operates in some way, causing some schools of magic to either no longer work or require relearning, as well as the creation of completely new schools.
Rift Magic is not the same thing as Force Magic, however they do operate using similar principles and therefore there is an overlap in certain abilities.
It's more plausible that Clarel was already a Force Mage and simply relearned how to use those skills following the Breach, rather than her mastering a completely new school of magic overnight. This would mean that Clarel would still more accurately be described as a Force Mage, rather than a Rift Mage (even if that might be her class in-game).
Solas being a Rift Mage doesn't seem that strange if you view it as a rediscovered form of magic used by Ancient Elves, one that might have been rendered unusable after the Veil came down, but began to work again following the massive influx of magical energy released into Thedas by the Breach.
Other hints that Rift Magic has ties to the Elves are that it's spells share the same characteristic green as other Ancient Elven magic shown throughout DAI, as well as being the only school mentioned as using the Anchor (also Ancient Elven magic) as a catalyst to provide the spells with more welly.
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Post by melbella on Jan 5, 2020 16:27:32 GMT
The in-universe explanation I know the lore explanation. However, the gameplay doesn't reflect it. The spells were recycled from DA2, rather than being anything new. Giving them a slightly different name and/or description doesn't change that. Stonefist was around in DAO as part of the Primal-Earth tree. Just like Cassandra's Seeker abilities are lore-wise nothing like Templar abilities, yet her entire skill tree is the same as Inky Templar.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 5, 2020 17:19:06 GMT
Could it be sipmle laziness or lack of time (it is well-known there are plot holes, unexplainable things, ignoring the obvious, like BM Hawke who in DAI says a complete different things etc etc etc in all 3 games)? It's a fact that Rift Magic spells are just the same as Force Magic spells, just with different names and changed a little bit. It can be simply devs "Why think of something else for DAI if we already have Force Magic?! Let's just change names, codex explanations a little bit and voilà - another spec for Inquisitor is ready + no need to explain why Solas knows those spells." Clarel is just capable mage who figured out some of spell usung rifts (Stonefist), OR that Stonefist Spell is a simple Stoneist Spell from the Primal Tree as melbella wrote, just looked like a Stonefist from a Rift Magic. That's all.
Tbh I am inclined to laziness or lack of time (who knows).
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Post by Iddy on Jan 5, 2020 18:31:34 GMT
This supposedly is a brand new school of magic created for the Inquisitor, even at the cost of a woman's sanity. So how come Solas, the oldest person on the planet, already knows it? And Clarel, too. Rift magic being mostly the same thing as Force magic from DA2, I imagine lots of mages know it.
To answer both the above;
The in-universe explanation is that the Breach changed how magic operates in some way, causing some schools of magic to either no longer work or require relearning, as well as the creation of completely new schools.
Rift Magic is not the same thing as Force Magic, however they do operate using similar principles and therefore there is an overlap in certain abilities.
It's more plausible that Clarel was already a Force Mage and simply relearned how to use those skills following the Breach, rather than her mastering a completely new school of magic overnight. This would mean that Clarel would still more accurately be described as a Force Mage, rather than a Rift Mage (even if that might be her class in-game).
Solas being a Rift Mage doesn't seem that strange if you view it as a rediscovered form of magic used by Ancient Elves, one that might have been rendered unusable after the Veil came down, but began to work again following the massive influx of magical energy released into Thedas by the Breach.
Other hints that Rift Magic has ties to the Elves are that it's spells share the same characteristic green as other Ancient Elven magic shown throughout DAI, as well as being the only school mentioned as using the Anchor (also Ancient Elven magic) as a catalyst to provide the spells with more welly. That's not the point. Why introduce it as a supposedly new school of magic if it isn't?
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Post by xerrai on Jan 6, 2020 20:33:05 GMT
To answer both the above;
[...] That's not the point. Why introduce it as a supposedly new school of magic if it isn't? To flesh out the world? Because it was easy? If I had to guess it would be because it is difficult to create truly unique spells without inevitably getting to the point that each spell basically already has a counterpart that does the same thing. I can't claim to know thier motivations, but I do know it isn't too surprising. It's not life rift magic is the only skill tree that uses spells from previous dragon age games. Take necromancy for example. While it has existed in the world for a while now, it has never been truly introduced to players until DAI as a "new specialization". But is it really all the 'new' to us? It has walking bomb (DAO/DA2 spirit spell), haste (DAO/DA2 creation spell), horror (DAO/DA2 entropy spell), etc. They only change thier descriptions a bit, but they are generally the same thing. Look at the other magic skill trees and you will see a ton of familiar spells. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if only a handful of DAI spells are truly 'unique' in the sense that they have no clear predecessor from previous games. But by and large spells are recycled from previous entries and given a nice tune up. Which means a graphical enhancement and slight description change. The only reason we rift magic stands out is because they barely even tried to create the illusion of a new skill tree. Most of the trees actually have an amalgam of all of the traditional schools of magic to at least create the illusion of a 'new' skill tree. Meanwhile rift magic is just sitting there as a blatant reskin. Tldr; Reskinning spells is not anything new in dragon age. They only change them up a bit to give them a new flavor.
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Post by Iddy on Jan 6, 2020 22:01:22 GMT
That's not the point. Why introduce it as a supposedly new school of magic if it isn't? To flesh out the world? Because it was easy? If I had to guess it would be because it is difficult to create truly unique spells without inevitably getting to the point that each spell basically already has a counterpart that does the same thing. I can't claim to know thier motivations, but I do know it isn't too surprising. It's not life rift magic is the only skill tree that uses spells from previous dragon age games. Take necromancy for example. While it has existed in the world for a while now, it has never been truly introduced to players until DAI as a "new specialization". But is it really all the 'new' to us? It has walking bomb (DAO/DA2 spirit spell), haste (DAO/DA2 creation spell), horror (DAO/DA2 entropy spell), etc. They only change thier descriptions a bit, but they are generally the same thing. Look at the other magic skill trees and you will see a ton of familiar spells. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if only a handful of DAI spells are truly 'unique' in the sense that they have no clear predecessor from previous games. But by and large spells are recycled from previous entries and given a nice tune up. Which means a graphical enhancement and slight description change. The only reason we rift magic stands out is because they barely even tried to create the illusion of a new skill tree. Most of the trees actually have an amalgam of all of the traditional schools of magic to at least create the illusion of a 'new' skill tree. Meanwhile rift magic is just sitting there as a blatant reskin. Tldr; Reskinning spells is not anything new in dragon age. They only change them up a bit to give them a new flavor. No, no. I didn't mean gameplay. Lore wise and from an ingame perspective, the Inquisitor is supposed to be the first person to ever learn it, since it was created for him/her.
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Post by Iddy on Jan 6, 2020 22:02:08 GMT
To flesh out the world? Because it was easy? If I had to guess it would be because it is difficult to create truly unique spells without inevitably getting to the point that each spell basically already has a counterpart that does the same thing. I can't claim to know thier motivations, but I do know it isn't too surprising. It's not life rift magic is the only skill tree that uses spells from previous dragon age games. Take necromancy for example. While it has existed in the world for a while now, it has never been truly introduced to players until DAI as a "new specialization". But is it really all the 'new' to us? It has walking bomb (DAO/DA2 spirit spell), haste (DAO/DA2 creation spell), horror (DAO/DA2 entropy spell), etc. They only change thier descriptions a bit, but they are generally the same thing. Look at the other magic skill trees and you will see a ton of familiar spells. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if only a handful of DAI spells are truly 'unique' in the sense that they have no clear predecessor from previous games. But by and large spells are recycled from previous entries and given a nice tune up. Which means a graphical enhancement and slight description change. The only reason we rift magic stands out is because they barely even tried to create the illusion of a new skill tree. Most of the trees actually have an amalgam of all of the traditional schools of magic to at least create the illusion of a 'new' skill tree. Meanwhile rift magic is just sitting there as a blatant reskin. Tldr; Reskinning spells is not anything new in dragon age. They only change them up a bit to give them a new flavor. No, no. I'm not talking about gameplay. Lore wise and from an ingame perspective, the Inquisitor is supposed to be the first person to ever learn it, since it was created for him/her.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 7, 2020 2:43:55 GMT
Isn't Solas an expert on the Fade? It's not surprising he learned some magical tricks during his time there and he's way more experienced compared to Your Trainer.
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Post by xerrai on Jan 7, 2020 5:30:28 GMT
[...] Tldr; Reskinning spells is not anything new in dragon age. They only change them up a bit to give them a new flavor. No, no. I didn't mean gameplay. Lore wise and from an ingame perspective, the Inquisitor is supposed to be the first person to ever learn it, since it was created for him/her. Well again, a lot of them recycled but get a bit of description change. In origins the horror spell was more of a mental state imbued by the mage, but in DAI the same spell was explicitly said to be the result of the caster unleashing spirits of fear. Lore wise, this distinction shows the necromancer's lore-given affinity for fear/death spirits as opposed to simply having it be a caster imposing his will directly at an opponent. Meanwhile who force mages are acknowledged in lore as manipulating raw mana into gravitational forces, rift magic based more around summoning fade constructs or manipulating the veil itself. Same spells given a different explanation lore-wise. Rift magic was introduced as new because to most of the modern world (whose magical education is dominated by the Circle of Magi) because they have never heard of such magics before. But Solas before his big reveal was already established as a practitioner of unusual and esoteric magics. He's a hedge mage, after all. And thier whole deal is practicing magic the Chantry/Circle either doesn't approve of or have never seen before. Combined with his knowledge of the fade (and the fact that he was Fen'Harel), it is unsurprising that he learned rift magic. But to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if 'rift magic' or a similar version of it was practiced in ancient times so he may simply be calling on old knowledge form way back when. More difficult to explain away is Clarel, but I have usually chalked it up to her using a force mage spell than real rift magic. But still, to most of the modern world "rift magic" is still very new. But the modern world has been wrong before. And even if it is technically correct, it is not impossible for someone else to discover it too. If the mages' collective can do it, then so can others.
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Post by Iddy on Jan 7, 2020 15:18:32 GMT
No, no. I didn't mean gameplay. Lore wise and from an ingame perspective, the Inquisitor is supposed to be the first person to ever learn it, since it was created for him/her. Well again, a lot of them recycled but get a bit of description change. In origins the horror spell was more of a mental state imbued by the mage, but in DAI the same spell was explicitly said to be the result of the caster unleashing spirits of fear. Lore wise, this distinction shows the necromancer's lore-given affinity for fear/death spirits as opposed to simply having it be a caster imposing his will directly at an opponent. Meanwhile who force mages are acknowledged in lore as manipulating raw mana into gravitational forces, rift magic based more around summoning fade constructs or manipulating the veil itself. Same spells given a different explanation lore-wise. Rift magic was introduced as new because to most of the modern world (whose magical education is dominated by the Circle of Magi) because they have never heard of such magics before. But Solas before his big reveal was already established as a practitioner of unusual and esoteric magics. He's a hedge mage, after all. And thier whole deal is practicing magic the Chantry/Circle either doesn't approve of or have never seen before. Combined with his knowledge of the fade (and the fact that he was Fen'Harel), it is unsurprising that he learned rift magic. But to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if 'rift magic' or a similar version of it was practiced in ancient times so he may simply be calling on old knowledge form way back when. More difficult to explain away is Clarel, but I have usually chalked it up to her using a force mage spell than real rift magic. But still, to most of the modern world "rift magic" is still very new. But the modern world has been wrong before. And even if it is technically correct, it is not impossible for someone else to discover it too. If the mages' collective can do it, then so can others. So what do you think Your Trainer did?
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Post by xerrai on Jan 7, 2020 18:17:07 GMT
[...] But still, to most of the modern world "rift magic" is still very new. But the modern world has been wrong before. And even if it is technically correct, it is not impossible for someone else to discover it too. If the mages' collective can do it, then so can others. So what do you think Your Trainer did? How she learned rift magic? Well the way she explained it (video here) made it seem like she did the following: had the mages' collective assign her and 19 others to study the rifts and how they affected "traditional disciplines", they did said research, 19 of them died, Your Trainer survived and compiled thier findings. But anything more specific than that is just conjecture. But she does give us hints. When we first meet her she says she is both "scattered" and "fatigued". The fatigue part is presumably because of the sheer power rift magic has and could simply be alluding to how studying it may have put a massive strain on her body. The 'scattered' part is more interesting since this seemed to apply only to her mental state and upon asking her why she is "Your Trainer" she clarifies that "I try very hard to remember that much. There is so much to keep in mind". Given that the fade is also the land of dreams, memory and emotion, I would think Trainer would have had to deal with more than mere force when studying the rifts. Particularly if she was overwhelmed by thier energies when first studying them. As for how she trained the Inquisitor....I only have a few ideas. She had us collect Venatori tomes at several locations (which were curiously mostly elvhen) but we don't actually know thier contents. But given the quest description for the specialization, it seems reasonable to guess that the Venatori were conducting research into the rifts/veil too. So our Trainer is basically having us running around stealing information on separate rifts so we can gain theoretical knowledge on how thier energies operate before we begin practical application. Solas said we may be using our mark as a catalyst, assuming this is true (plausible since the mark controls rifts), then the Inquisitor may basically have a rift-specific focus tool that can probably be used to channel the energies more safely than others.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 8, 2020 22:13:19 GMT
That's not the point. Why introduce it as a supposedly new school of magic if it isn't? Because it is a new type of magic. As others have pointed out, the similarities are only skin-deep. The in-universe explanation I know the lore explanation. However, the gameplay doesn't reflect it. The spells were recycled from DA2, rather than being anything new. Giving them a slightly different name and/or description doesn't change that. Stonefist was around in DAO as part of the Primal-Earth tree. Just like Cassandra's Seeker abilities are lore-wise nothing like Templar abilities, yet her entire skill tree is the same as Inky Templar. Gameplay doesn't rule over lore. From gameplay or combat perspective the abilities may look or function identical, but if it's established as a different thing, then it is a different thing.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 8, 2020 22:24:58 GMT
Could it be sipmle laziness or lack of time (it is well-known there are plot holes, unexplainable things, ignoring the obvious, like BM Hawke who in DAI says a complete different things etc etc etc in all 3 games)? It's a fact that Rift Magic spells are just the same as Force Magic spells, just with different names and changed a little bit. It can be simply devs "Why think of something else for DAI if we already have Force Magic?! Let's just change names, codex explanations a little bit and voilà - another spec for Inquisitor is ready + no need to explain why Solas knows those spells." Clarel is just capable mage who figured out some of spell usung rifts (Stonefist), OR that Stonefist Spell is a simple Stoneist Spell from the Primal Tree as melbella wrote, just looked like a Stonefist from a Rift Magic. That's all. Tbh I am inclined to laziness or lack of time (who knows). Part of it is change of design. There are things and armors and assets brought from old games, even though they've had to be basically made from the scratch (AFAIK one doesn't just copy-pastes these things from different engines) - yet with such a change in updated look and feel one has to bring some things from older games that are familiar and tie the game with previous ones in more ways than a story. Other reason may be the fact that this is the first game on a new engine. Perhaps they've settled on things they're familiar with to not over-complicate matters from development perspective - or have tested different things and figured out that they prefer to stick to what they know before they learn the engine better and can create something different/new. Ironically, we know from David Gaider that there was much less cooperation between combat designers in DAO than in DAI and quite a lot of combat decisions in DAO were made without knowledge or agreement with writers team - in other words, DAI's combat is actually more lore-friendly than DAO one was.
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Post by Iddy on Jan 8, 2020 23:29:03 GMT
That's not the point. Why introduce it as a supposedly new school of magic if it isn't? Because it is a new type of magic. As others have pointed out, the similarities are only skin-deep. I'm not comparing it to other specializations or even talking about gameplay at all.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 9, 2020 0:42:57 GMT
I'm not comparing it to other specializations or even talking about gameplay at all. But the answer is the same from lore perspective. Besides - I'm unsure it was ever mentioned in the lore that Rift Magic is a "brand new school of magic created for the Inquisitor"? Where is that is written in in-game materials? At best it is noted as a new, barely studied school of magic - the Inquisitor (who deals with rifts on regular basis and so becomes a natural candidate) can simply take a risk of learning, thus becoming one of first (in their age) that utilizes it. Also, don't forget that in-game materials are written or expressed from biased perspective. Even if someone thinks that they're creating something brand new, it doesn't mean that it is. Nobody at that time knew that Solas is an ancient elf demigod who's spent thousands of years and developed new forms of magic use, so for them, this is all new and unexplored - even if Solas sometimes deigned to teach someone something, which could - lore-wise - explain how some schools of magic are occasionally similar (if they are not simply a convergence).
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Post by melbella on Jan 9, 2020 2:02:49 GMT
Gameplay doesn't rule over lore But wouldn't it be nice if they at least tried to match the two? Giving something a fancy new explanation for how/why it exists but with the exact same name and/or effect as something already established in the lore doesn't help with immersion. Stonefist is Stonefist. The Breach didn't make the spell possible yet for some reason now only a Rift Mage can use it? Someone better tell Wynne and Hawke they aren't qualified.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 9, 2020 2:45:11 GMT
Gameplay doesn't rule over lore But wouldn't it be nice if they at least tried to match the two? Giving something a fancy new explanation for how/why it exists but with the exact same name and/or effect as something already established in the lore doesn't help with immersion. Stonefist is Stonefist. The Breach didn't make the spell possible yet for some reason now only a Rift Mage can use it? Someone better tell Wynne and Hawke they aren't qualified. I've already mentioned probable difficulties they've had designing virtually everything on a new engine and limitations it brought. But I will repeat that, technically, DAI is somewhat more matched than earlier games. I mean, it's not like they're disavowing the combat of previous games or something, but Gaider (and Weekes in some other interview IRC) was pretty open that DAO's combat designers didn't really consult with writers what they were putting into the game - is a fairly recent thing for DA departments to work closely together, so combat was more friendly to lore in DAI than in previous games. Anyway - there's nothing in the lore saying that Stonefist is impossible now. That was just speculation over here and we've seen Clarel use what was more than likely regular Stonefist. And making similar spell doing similar thing wouldn't be weird - the Rift magic is a very new school and people (save Solas) barely know what they're doing. So using the 'blueprint' of known spells to achieve similar effects will probably work better and be safer than... dunno... Jar-Of-Bees-fist. I mean, these ultimately aren't THE SAME spells. They look similar and have similar functions. But regular Stonefist is a literal rock and inflicts nature damage, while Fade Stonefist is made out of Fade stuff and has different properties. It's basic convergence - two different magic types have similar spells, because in both schools a mage can throw heavy objects at people to great effect. I don't really think it needs any other in-game reason for such similarities. And if someone still searches for one - well, given how long Solas was in the Fade it may be that he's shared a technique or two with curious mages. So it's not far fetched to assume that Primal Stonefist may have has its origin from Fade Stonefist that got modified after several generations and found itself in a different school.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Jan 9, 2020 12:30:49 GMT
I mean, these ultimately aren't THE SAME spells. They look similar and have similar functions. But regular Stonefist is a literal rock and inflicts nature damage, while Fade Stonefist is made out of Fade stuff and has different properties. It's basic convergence - two different magic types have similar spells, because in both schools a mage can throw heavy objects at people to great effect. I don't really think it needs any other in-game reason for such similarities. Turns out that those spells look similar, but they are at the same time different. It only confuses players. There is no simple explanation to the players why that popular "Stonefist" looks the same anyway: as you noticed in both cases a mage creates a heavy object and throws it at people. Those spells look the same as spells from DAO and DA2 with some passives added to change something. That's what the playeys see. Don't know about others but when I saw Rift Spec I was dissapointed as right away thought of DAO and DA2 spells. And game explanation "Why present it as a new school of magic" sounds rather sloppy as those spells are already familiar, and as it is a new game there could have been something different. Explanation hey look similar and have similar functions. But regular Stonefist is a literal rock and inflicts nature damage, while Fade Stonefist is made out of Fade stuff and has different properties. It's basic convergence is a good one, but the whole rift-force-primal-thing is confusing anyway considering that convergence.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 9, 2020 13:22:23 GMT
I mean, these ultimately aren't THE SAME spells. They look similar and have similar functions. But regular Stonefist is a literal rock and inflicts nature damage, while Fade Stonefist is made out of Fade stuff and has different properties. It's basic convergence - two different magic types have similar spells, because in both schools a mage can throw heavy objects at people to great effect. I don't really think it needs any other in-game reason for such similarities. Turns out that those spells look similar, but they are at the same time different. It only confuses players. There is no simple explanation to the players why that popular "Stonefist" looks the same anyway: as you noticed in both cases a mage creates a heavy object and throws it at people. Those spells look the same as spells from DAO and DA2 with some passives added to change something. That's what the playeys see. Don't know about others but when I saw Rift Spec I was dissapointed as right away thought of DAO and DA2 spells. And game explanation "Why present it as a new school of magic" sounds rather sloppy as those spells are already familiar, and as it is a new game there could have been something different. Explanation hey look similar and have similar functions. But regular Stonefist is a literal rock and inflicts nature damage, while Fade Stonefist is made out of Fade stuff and has different properties. It's basic convergence is a good one, but the whole rift-force-primal-thing is confusing anyway considering that convergence. I really don't think the concept 'similar, but different' is that hard to grasp. People understand that spirit sword of Arcane Warrior is different than regular sword - so why should they be confused when they see spells with similar functions? You're making it seem way too complicated than it actually is. I mean, most gamers understand that there's a level of ludonarrative dissonance between stuff like narrative and combat. We get it that a lot of this stuff is either simplified or that skill trees aren't necessarily reflective of in-universe universe state of things. If we understand that characters in-game combat proficiency isn't super-accurately reflected when we start the game at level 1 (not a chance in hell that either Solas, Cassandra and Varric simply forgot their specializations and only remember one skill when we start the game) then I don't see how people don't get that two different schools of magic can have similar abilities, even if only on a level of combat design. Lore-wise there's no rule whatsoever saying that magic schools can't be similar to one another. Heck, since DAO we see that darkspawn mages - who use the power of the Blight, that is noted as being separate from the Fade - use an array of spells against us that are similar to spells we know. So why can't two schools of magic that are ultimately drawing from the same source be similar, be it as a matter of convergence or provenience? And from design perspective - it's easy to say 'there could have been something different' when one doesn't necessarily designs combat for games or doesn't know all the hurdles of designing on a new engine...
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December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Jan 9, 2020 15:00:24 GMT
I really don't think the concept 'similar, but different' is that hard to grasp what's the point of this thread anyway? Players don't understand "why". And confused. Of course it is not hard to grasp. My whole post refered to "some players don't understand why present it as a new school"/"Spells are similar". It is not hard to grasp I thought. And I tried to express my point of view of this "why" situation. Period.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 9, 2020 15:44:06 GMT
I really don't think the concept 'similar, but different' is that hard to grasp what's the point of this thread anyway? Players don't understand "why". And confused. Of course it is not hard to grasp. My whole post refered to "some players don't understand why present it as a new school"/"Spells are similar". It is not hard to grasp I thought. And I tried to express my point of view of this "why" situation. Period. A few players wondering about certain lore or design decisions doesn't mean that this is something that is confusing to many - plus, it's been 6 years since DAI was released. We're at the point of over-analyzing and nitpicking due to lack of material rather than portions of fanbase suffering from much confusion about similarities between skill trees. For most, Rift magic is simply similar in the way it can be used in combat, hence similarities to other schools or ways they can be utilized in combat - but on lore/theoretical magic grounds it's not the same as other schools, hence the distinction. I'm not sure there's much else to say here, other than obscure speculations about whether similarities between telekinesis and using raw Fade mean anything of note, or whether Solas taught people certain tricks over years which eventually morphed into something else and so on.
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