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Post by samhain444 on Jan 10, 2020 23:11:15 GMT
Sorry, buddy, but I disagree.
We had this discussion in the old BIO BSN.... if you recall. It started with the exaggerated hip movements of certain female NPC + female Hawke in DA2.
Anyway, female Quizzy sitting down in the 'ol throne with legs spread (as per male posture) somehow is not the same. To me, there is a requirement to pay attention to details.
BioWare does have that track record of just using the male for the female animations with Mass Effect. just watch FemShep sit, lean or walk up and down stairs in Mass Effect 1-3...
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 11, 2020 0:00:26 GMT
Snip That being said, female characters don't actually require different animations at all. Snip
Sorry, buddy, but I disagree.
We had this discussion in the old BIO BSN.... if you recall. It started with the exaggerated hip movements of certain female NPC + female Hawke in DA2.
Anyway, female Quizzy sitting down in the 'ol throne with legs spread (as per male posture) somehow is not the same. To me, there is a requirement to pay attention to details.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 11, 2020 1:00:04 GMT
Sorry, buddy, but I disagree.
We had this discussion in the old BIO BSN.... if you recall. It started with the exaggerated hip movements of certain female NPC + female Hawke in DA2.
Anyway, female Quizzy sitting down in the 'ol throne with legs spread (as per male posture) somehow is not the same. To me, there is a requirement to pay attention to details.
BioWare does have that track record of just using the male for the female animations with Mass Effect. At the same time they aren't creating the game from the dirt up like they were with Inquisition either. The comments were one of the reasons for the reset is they were going to use what they have developed for Anthem and developing from there which means they already have a lot of human animations created. Different races would need to be created probably from scratch. Edit: Cannot type today. Agreed. It's no excuse, however. I suggest, for the purpose of immersion, that this is exactly what they should be doing. Aliens, being alien they will walk/run a bit differently, imo. Some human females can walk similarly to males but shoes can make a difference. Also, I'd like to see a female as a female.
It would be no surprise to me if the studio cuts corners. That's also one of their signature MOs( see ME:A non patched animations).
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 11, 2020 1:01:32 GMT
Sorry, buddy, but I disagree.
We had this discussion in the old BIO BSN.... if you recall. It started with the exaggerated hip movements of certain female NPC + female Hawke in DA2.
Anyway, female Quizzy sitting down in the 'ol throne with legs spread (as per male posture) somehow is not the same. To me, there is a requirement to pay attention to details.
Ah... yes, this one too. Thanks for looking it up.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 11, 2020 3:43:30 GMT
BioWare does have that track record of just using the male for the female animations with Mass Effect. At the same time they aren't creating the game from the dirt up like they were with Inquisition either. The comments were one of the reasons for the reset is they were going to use what they have developed for Anthem and developing from there which means they already have a lot of human animations created. Different races would need to be created probably from scratch. Edit: Cannot type today. Agreed. It's no excuse, however. I suggest, for the purpose of immersion, that this is exactly what they should be doing. Aliens, being alien they will walk/run a bit differently, imo. Some human females can walk similarly to males but shoes can make a difference. Also, I'd like to see a female as a female.
It would be no surprise to me if the studio cuts corners. That's also one of their signature MOs( see ME:A non patched animations). Keep in mind that now they don't just have Inquisition or MEA or Anthem animations, but animations and all kind of assets from across all studios that use Frostbite and are under EA's umbrella. You want to know how they're cutting costs and streamlining? Most/all of the studios being trained in ways of Frostbite, using and updating Frostbite and developing assets and modules for it constantly has been done to save money in the long run. FIFA using DAI's RPG tools or Need For Speed team helping to develop better driving mechanics for Nomad in MEA or flight mechanics for star battles in Battlefront 2, or ancillary studios being assigned to help with big projects because all of the devs know how to work in Frostbite - this stuff saves money. They really aren't forced to cut costs the way you think they do. Also - MEA's non-patched animations weren't a result of cost-cutting but developmental hurdles, including resource and time-expensive shift from different 3D graphics program in the middle of production. Plus, the animations in Anthem were really quite good. So why stopping at MEA, which has ultimately fixed a lot of animations and issues with at no additional cost to us?
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 11, 2020 4:40:12 GMT
BioWare does have that track record of just using the male for the female animations with Mass Effect. At the same time they aren't creating the game from the dirt up like they were with Inquisition either. The comments were one of the reasons for the reset is they were going to use what they have developed for Anthem and developing from there which means they already have a lot of human animations created. Different races would need to be created probably from scratch. Edit: Cannot type today. Agreed. It's no excuse, however. I suggest, for the purpose of immersion, that this is exactly what they should be doing. Aliens, being alien they will walk/run a bit differently, imo. Some human females can walk similarly to males but shoes can make a difference. Also, I'd like to see a female as a female.
It would be no surprise to me if the studio cuts corners. That's also one of their signature MOs( see ME:A non patched animations).
I doubt its the "cutting corners" approach that could even be used, it was that they bit off more then they could chew. Which to me was the basis of a lot of problems I had with Andromeda, but again comparing one game that was released years ago and it had a lot of unique problems doesn't mean its a trend with BioWare. Even the circumstances with Andromeda are pretty unique to that game alone since if the reports were correct they were basically creating everything from scratch because egos might have gotten in the way. So less time for working on complex animations and to me they spent a lot of time on a certain aspect of the game where the animation quality definitely showed to be better then others. If you only look at the "bad" animations of Andromeda and not the better if not good ones I think its really misleading comparison too.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 11, 2020 16:32:51 GMT
Agreed. It's no excuse, however. I suggest, for the purpose of immersion, that this is exactly what they should be doing. Aliens, being alien they will walk/run a bit differently, imo. Some human females can walk similarly to males but shoes can make a difference. Also, I'd like to see a female as a female.
It would be no surprise to me if the studio cuts corners. That's also one of their signature MOs( see ME:A non patched animations). Keep in mind that now they don't just have Inquisition or MEA or Anthem animations, but animations and all kind of assets from across all studios that use Frostbite are under EA's umbrella. Snip
Agreed Bio has assets.
But, some are useless as tits on a bull. Example: Some animations in DA:I (take Iola the Grand Cleric) were animated via software and not via motion capture. Same with ME:A. There is no room for that type of animation anymore. So, unless Bio can use mocap assets for walking, talking and idling from somewhere else, they need to create new ones.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 11, 2020 17:12:46 GMT
Keep in mind that now they don't just have Inquisition or MEA or Anthem animations, but animations and all kind of assets from across all studios that use Frostbite are under EA's umbrella. Snip
Agreed Bio has assets.
But, some are useless as tits on a bull. Example: Some animations in DA:I (take Iola the Grand Cleric) were animated via software and not via motion capture. Same with ME:A. There is no room for that type of animation anymore. So, unless Bio can use mocap assets for walking, talking and idling from somewhere else, they need to create new ones.
I am at a loss here... you seem to have not paid attention to at least half of what I'm driving at and I'm fairly sure my English is clear enough. I mean, why are you so over-focused on some animations in DAI and MEA? There are 3 games on Frostbite from Bioware alone, with Anthem having a ton of mocapped animations for both genders. There are also mocapped (and hand-keyed) animations from multiple different games EA has published - Mirror's Edge, Battlefront, Battlefield, etc. And we have no idea whether they haven't been working on expanding the library of assets beyond of what existed in past games, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did - after all, EA owns a large mocap studio and I'm fairly sure it's not used only occasionally to - you know - mocap stuff.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 14, 2020 13:51:24 GMT
Agreed Bio has assets.
But, some are useless as tits on a bull. Example: Some animations in DA:I (take Iola the Grand Cleric) were animated via software and not via motion capture. Same with ME:A. There is no room for that type of animation anymore. So, unless Bio can use mocap assets for walking, talking and idling from somewhere else, they need to create new ones.
I am at a loss here... you seem to have not paid attention to at least half of what I'm driving at and I'm fairly sure my English is clear enough. I mean, why are you so over-focused on some animations in DAI and MEA? There are 3 games on Frostbite from Bioware alone, with Anthem having a ton of mocapped animations for both genders. There are also mocapped (and hand-keyed) animations from multiple different games EA has published - Mirror's Edge, Battlefront, Battlefield, etc. And we have no idea whether they haven't been working on expanding the library of assets beyond of what existed in past games, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did - after all, EA owns a large mocap studio and I'm fairly sure it's not used only occasionally to - you know - mocap stuff.
Which of the ton of combat animations in Anthem can be used in DA4 for: (1) sword fighting? (2) archer class (3) mage class
The answer is none.
Perhaps from Mirror's Edge?... naah, I can't see it. Perhaps combat assets can be picked from the gun toting B games?.. the new Star Wars game? What about from ME:A?
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 14, 2020 14:38:44 GMT
I am at a loss here... you seem to have not paid attention to at least half of what I'm driving at and I'm fairly sure my English is clear enough. I mean, why are you so over-focused on some animations in DAI and MEA? There are 3 games on Frostbite from Bioware alone, with Anthem having a ton of mocapped animations for both genders. There are also mocapped (and hand-keyed) animations from multiple different games EA has published - Mirror's Edge, Battlefront, Battlefield, etc. And we have no idea whether they haven't been working on expanding the library of assets beyond of what existed in past games, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did - after all, EA owns a large mocap studio and I'm fairly sure it's not used only occasionally to - you know - mocap stuff.
Which of the ton of combat animations in Anthem can be used in DA4 for: (1) sword fighting? (2) archer class (3) mage class
The answer is none.
Perhaps from Mirror's Edge?... naah, I can't see it. Perhaps combat assets can be picked from the gun toting B games?.. the new Star Wars game? What about from ME:A?
They have the base frame and the points of articulation created. They also have other non-combat animations which are just as important with movement and a framework for facial animations. Just because its not 100% doesn't mean it isn't a good start for them.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 10,464 Likes: 17,999
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 14, 2020 14:53:38 GMT
I am at a loss here... you seem to have not paid attention to at least half of what I'm driving at and I'm fairly sure my English is clear enough. I mean, why are you so over-focused on some animations in DAI and MEA? There are 3 games on Frostbite from Bioware alone, with Anthem having a ton of mocapped animations for both genders. There are also mocapped (and hand-keyed) animations from multiple different games EA has published - Mirror's Edge, Battlefront, Battlefield, etc. And we have no idea whether they haven't been working on expanding the library of assets beyond of what existed in past games, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did - after all, EA owns a large mocap studio and I'm fairly sure it's not used only occasionally to - you know - mocap stuff.
Which of the ton of combat animations in Anthem can be used in DA4 for: (1) sword fighting? (2) archer class (3) mage class
The answer is none.
Perhaps from Mirror's Edge?... naah, I can't see it. Perhaps combat assets can be picked from the gun toting B games?.. the new Star Wars game? What about from ME:A?
We know they used mocap for MEA as it was advertised as such. Maybe not so muc hfor facial animations but I'm pretty suer tha tit was used for al the running and jumping around it was.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Jan 14, 2020 15:00:58 GMT
Maybe they can use Anthem's NPC and facial animations. The Javelin animations don't seem to be useful for Dragon Age at all. There are only very basic melee animations, no bow or spell related ones, and all Javelins have that extra leg joint that results in those painful looking walking and running animations.
That said, models and animations are created with third party software like 3DMax or Maya anyway and then exported to the game engine. Unless they lost their backups or switched to a different software at some point they can just re-export any model or animation they ever created, no matter which game it was originally meant for.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 14, 2020 15:10:02 GMT
Doesn't matter what BW (or other devs) say or write from time to time like a bait - just to get attention to what they are doing. Tbh I don't even care about it. But, think of it: if thre are no females - BW will loose a very large part of the players , thus no money for them. Or no males - the same thing. No different romances - also the same thing. No different races - the same thing. For devs it is all about money. So such things is just a way to get attention, so player won't forget about them and the game. Never can think of somehting better to get atttetion if they want it so. For me what matters: the game is in progress, will be released ..., - well, good.
As for me: I prefer to pay as a female most of the time because 1) male voice acting in BW games is always...creepy...not for me 2) I prefer to look at the felame ass while running/exploring/fighting.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 14, 2020 16:53:02 GMT
There is no budget argument that works. Anything and everything the devs or publishers try to push as a reason to get rid of the option, when every game for years up to this point offered it, would be absolute horse shit. The only argument that genuinely works, is that it's simply an artistic choice on the part of the devs, making a more fixed type of character where they actively want to push a singular design. I would hate it, and probably not buy it, but anything they tell us beyond the decision on an artistic basis would be a flat out lie.
That, or EA decided to be absolute knobs and simply mandate a design on BioWare, which would basically be interchangeable with the aforementioned reason.
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N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 10,464 Likes: 17,999
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 14, 2020 17:43:51 GMT
Doesn't matter what BW (or other devs) say or write from time to time like a bait - just to get attention to what they are doing. Tbh I don't even care about it. But, think of it: if thre are no females - BW will loose a very large part of the players , thus no money for them. Or no males - the same thing. No different romances - also the same thing. No different races - the same thing. For devs it is all about money. So such things is just a way to get attention, so player won't forget about them and the game. Never can think of somehting better to get atttetion if they want it so. For me what matters: the game is in progress, will be released ..., - well, good. As for me: I prefer to pay as a female most of the time because 1) male voice acting in BW games is always...creepy...not for me 2) I prefer to look at the felame ass while running/exploring/fighting. Not suer about the Male VA bein gcreepy as it sounds fine to me though I wil l as yI think the female VA's in the last few games hav been much better. I've definitely felt more comnjnected t om yfemale Inquisitors aqnd Sara Ryder at least anyway more than I have the male versions.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 14, 2020 18:23:07 GMT
Not suer about the Male VA bein gcreepy as it sounds fine to me though I wil l as yI think the female VA's in the last few games hav been much better. I've definitely felt more comnjnected t om yfemale Inquisitors aqnd Sara Ryder at least anyway more than I have the male versions. Maybe the word I used "creepy" is not suitable and doesn't really describe what I really wanted to express. For me Shep voice is better in paragon phrases, though some renegade phrases are also good - Meer just pronounces them in a dfferent way and most of the time (aka almost all the the game ) it is not suitable for me (though I saw PTs with a male Shep many times, played myself as a male Shep...still something wrong, not my type). The same with DA voices. I started DA2 as a male Hawke, played about 3-4 time, but after listening female Hawke I really don't even remember when I last played as a male - I just adore my female Hawke. Awesome VA. In DAI also nearly the same, British or American VA - they are good in some dialogues (I played both), but tbh, I wanted to finish the game ASAP just not to hear male VA. BUT female VA is better, but not as good as fem Shep. Still both - British and American fem VA are much better for me and I listen to them very simple, w/o any bad emotions. And btw, Sara voice is better as well. Much better imo. But still VA is not the first reason why I prefer females. Can't do anything with the second reason. Plus huge male bodybulder figures interfere with the battle - I just can't see the battlefield (dwarves are very short and I feel very uncomfortable during the battle, not for me - as I prefer warriors).
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 14, 2020 20:12:07 GMT
Are we actually taking this hypothetical exercise in brand suicide seriously?
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 14, 2020 21:30:02 GMT
Snip As for me: I prefer to pay as a female most of the time because 1) male voice acting in BW games is always...creepy...not for me 2) I prefer to look at the felame ass while running/exploring/fighting.
Well, if the protagonist is encased in armour, I doubt anyone sees anything. If the butt area is shown with tight black leather, I'm sure there will be a cry of sexism from some group or other.
Bio feels strongly they have Creative License. No argument there. This License, however, may clash with fan expectations . So, be prepared.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 14, 2020 21:32:14 GMT
Are we actually taking this hypothetical exercise in brand suicide seriously?
To what are you referring?
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N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 14, 2020 21:48:17 GMT
Are we actually taking this hypothetical exercise in brand suicide seriously?
To what are you referring?
The idea that BioWare would cut or reduce the number of female characters because of gendered animations and such, I would assume.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 14, 2020 21:55:58 GMT
Well, if the protagonist is encased in armour, I doubt anyone sees anything Hmm, I meant not only the ass itself: the back, the butt, how a female moves actually...I prefer to watch this instead of a bodybuilder because of whom I can't see a battlefiled. I'm sure there will be a cry of sexism from some group or other. There are always cries from one grope or another. Peopele got used to such things, I suppose. I am (was) good with my former husband, but an actually would-be-possibilities indeed may happen. Someone have to be prepared. may clash with fan expectations fan expectations are not in the game - loss of many fans. And money. Thus (as we saw in DAI/ME3) - mod/patch/whatever to make fans at least a little happier.
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 15, 2020 4:22:03 GMT
To what are you referring?
The idea that BioWare would cut or reduce the number of female characters because of gendered animations and such, I would assume. Yes, exactly. The idea that this would ever even be considered by Bio strikes me as profoundly silly.
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Post by correctamundo on Jan 15, 2020 7:07:57 GMT
Are we actually taking this hypothetical exercise in brand suicide seriously? No we're not. This thread is merely one of Sartoz silly clutching at straws. The rest (most) of us are here for the laughs I guess.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jan 15, 2020 10:53:17 GMT
I wouldn't play it. Female only = OK, male only = disappointing but still OK, non-human only = Not OK.
Out of curiosity: Why? An elf for example is basically just an anorexic looking human. A dwarf is a small chubby human. It's not like you'd be playing a tentacle monster.
I'll play any race and gender if the story is good, myself. And I would in fact be overjoyed about a non human PC in a Mass Effect game.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 15, 2020 18:00:54 GMT
Are we actually taking this hypothetical exercise in brand suicide seriously? No we're not. This thread is merely one of Sartoz silly clutching at straws. The rest (most) of us are here for the laughs I guess. Let's just say I prefer this discussion to 'was Cassandra's jaw too square' type of thread Plus, at least there's something salvageable out of it in terms of actual discussion - if BW or EA wanted to cut costs when developing a title like Dragon Age, how would they do that or what steps would they take? Or - could DA game be about one, fixed character? Granted, those are things that are better suited to be discussed on threads that began their life as genuine questions, rather than another bad faith take...
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