Polka Dot
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Post by Polka Dot on Jan 28, 2020 18:53:12 GMT
As someone who is a detail-oriented visual artist … you're probably a lot more aware of and sensitive to every nuance of polygons shifting than a lot of people who just want to play a game. Like most people, I've found that some cutscene animations look odd, but the biggest reaction any of those would get from me is perhaps a brief eyeroll. I tend to see them as the developers' interpretation of my character's behavior, which I may or may not agree with. If I spend, say 50+ hours playing a game, only a couple of hours of that time is spent watching cutscenes. The rest is spent moving my character around and seeing the walking and running animations, thus those are the ones of greatest interest and concern to me. And I want to merely see them, not actively watch them - because watching implies that they're designed to get my attention in some way, and the more I'm watching my character perform, the less immersed I am in actually role-playing the character and paying attention to the scenery and what's going on in the world. A neutral gait that looks so natural as to escape my notice works best for my purposes.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 28, 2020 19:36:18 GMT
As someone who is a detail-oriented visual artist … you're probably a lot more aware of and sensitive to every nuance of polygons shifting than a lot of people who just want to play a game. Like most people, I've found that some cutscene animations look odd, but the biggest reaction any of those would get from me is perhaps a brief eyeroll. I tend to see them as the developers' interpretation of my character's behavior, which I may or may not agree with. If I spend, say 50+ hours playing a game, only a couple of hours of that time is spent watching cutscenes. The rest is spent moving my character around and seeing the walking and running animations, thus those are the ones of greatest interest and concern to me. And I want to merely see them, not actively watch them - because watching implies that they're designed to get my attention in some way, and the more I'm watching my character perform, the less immersed I am in actually role-playing the character and paying attention to the scenery and what's going on in the world. A neutral gait that looks so natural as to escape my notice works best for my purposes. I am. I say stuff like this to be clear about my bias. I don't think however that I'm detail-oriented to a degree where I'm the only one bothered by some of this stuff. In fact, I didn't start this particular discussion, I only joined it. And the fact that femInkys use weird animations in cinematics has been a fairly common complaint over years, just like weird male elf arms were or quality of hair or available hairstyles. I also don't think I'm the only person who enjoys the game outside of cutscenes, but considers cutscenes to be some of the most meaningful parts of the game: the stuff a lot of people play these games for and feel rewarded by, especially seeing their characters interacting with those NPCs they like and so on. It's why people have made such a stink about facial animations in MEA or why some complained at distant camera shots during many conversations in DAI, making the exchange seem less personal. People can re-start playing the game 14 times because lighting outside of CC can make their characters look somewhat different (also a fairly common complaint), so a PC suddenly walking like they have a full diaper (when they didn't outside of cutscene) can indeed be quite jarring or immersion-breaking. I can laugh at some flubs or hand-wave some others - in a way I have to, otherwise there would be few games I can fully enjoy, on visual level at least. But I know that animation in games (and animations in last Bioware games) has improved enough to expect this thing to be fixed or tweaked in the next title. I don't think I'm unreasonable in this, just like I don't think you're unreasonable in expecting that the default walk cycle won't be anything particularly exaggerated in any direction, especially given DA's venture into less stylized and more realistic type of visuals. I mean... did you find your immersion broken when you were trekking through zones in DAI with fem PC? If not, then I'm not sure I see the issue. They'll use DAI's assets before they start using DA2 ones.
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Polka Dot
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 679 Likes: 1,207
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Post by Polka Dot on Jan 28, 2020 20:26:02 GMT
I don't think I'm unreasonable in this, just like I don't think you're unreasonable in expecting that the default walk cycle won't be anything particularly exaggerated in any direction, especially given DA's venture into less stylized and more realistic type of visuals. Thanks for that. Yes, as I mentioned in my initial post in this thread. I didn't buy the game at release, and the female walk animation was one of the primary reasons why. It was the same one used for DA2. I did end up buying it a couple of years after release, on sale at amazon for $20 including all DLCs. I learned to tolerate it by pointing the camera at an angle so the characters would walk diagonally across the screen and I didn't have to watch the broken pelvis. I completed one playthrough, started and abandoned another. I never did play all of the DLCs. DAO remains one of my favorite games of all time, but if they don't knock it off with the hyper-exaggerated walk/run animation, I probably won't be going to Tevinter.
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Post by river82 on Jan 28, 2020 20:40:15 GMT
*Loads up 2nd most popular MMO on the planet, sees most people walking around as a catboy or catgirl … in sexy glamors* *Loads up the most popular MMO on the planet, sees an entire server dedicated to erotic roleplay* *Goes back to 2nd most popular MMO on the planet, sees a scantily clad bunny girl race introduced* I'm totally convinced that female walk is going to turn heads I don't know what point you're trying to make, besides the fact that sexist character design is rampant across the entire industry. Plenty of people still side-eye that shit. Something can be popular and still creepy and gross. Relative to what is actually rampant across the industry a sexy female walk is so mild most gamers won't even notice it. Unless it's horrible and hilarious. Then it might turn heads.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 28, 2020 21:11:34 GMT
*Loads up 2nd most popular MMO on the planet, sees most people walking around as a catboy or catgirl … in sexy glamors* *Loads up the most popular MMO on the planet, sees an entire server dedicated to erotic roleplay* *Goes back to 2nd most popular MMO on the planet, sees a scantily clad bunny girl race introduced* I'm totally convinced that female walk is going to turn heads I don't know what point you're trying to make, besides the fact that sexist character design is rampant across the entire industry. Plenty of people still side-eye that shit. Something can be popular and still creepy and gross.
Well, according to your own post,
I reject any and all arguments that fantasy has to reflect "real life" in any way. The entire POINT of the fantasy genre is that it is not bound by the strictures of "real life".
So, why is it creepy and gross?
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Post by river82 on Jan 28, 2020 21:13:32 GMT
I don't suppose it ever occurred to him that some of us might prefer our characters' gait to be: -- strong and determined -- smart and capable -- graceful and athletic -- energetic and motivated … or any of a bazillion other postures walking might convey. It also apparently never occurred to him that what looks "sexy" to his eyes might look more like a desperate affectation to others. It occurs to me that by just picking one they're always going to disappoint some aspect of the fanbase who may want those four different alternatives. Which is why more choice for the player is always better, so they can tailor their character the way they prefer and not be stuck with stuff they don't. Even Temtem had 4 different run animations, which is actually a pleasant surprise for an indie game which is pretty light on character customisation (for obvious reasons). So players can run around with a determined, business-like gait, and (if they're PessimistPanda) side-eye all the characters with a sexy feminine walk to their hearts content
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 28, 2020 21:29:10 GMT
I don't think I'm unreasonable in this, just like I don't think you're unreasonable in expecting that the default walk cycle won't be anything particularly exaggerated in any direction, especially given DA's venture into less stylized and more realistic type of visuals. Thanks for that. Yes, as I mentioned in my initial post in this thread. I didn't buy the game at release, and the female walk animation was one of the primary reasons why. It was the same one used for DA2. I did end up buying it a couple of years after release, on sale at amazon for $20 including all DLCs. I learned to tolerate it by pointing the camera at an angle so the characters would walk diagonally across the screen and I didn't have to watch the broken pelvis. I completed one playthrough, started and abandoned another. I never did play all of the DLCs. DAO remains one of my favorite games of all time, but if they don't knock it off with the hyper-exaggerated walk/run animation, I probably won't be going to Tevinter. DAI and DA2 don't use the same walk animation loops. You can say they are similar compared to DAO, but they are hardly the same. DAI's fem walk cycle is just your average game fem walk cycle. Nothing particularly special compared to other games. Calling it hyper-exaggerated is an exaggeration in itself. That's actually a much stronger reaction to any sort of animation than I have as 'detail-oriented visual artist', but that only proves that I'm hardly the only one "aware of and sensitive to every nuance of polygons shifting" and people will simply have their preferences or immersion-breaking hang-ups. I mean, the problem between us is that we have fairly diametrically opposite opinions, at least when it comes to visual side of things. I simply don't find DAO visually appealing on a lot of levels, including its unremarkable animations. It's probably one of reasons why I skipped it all those years ago. I can be chill about it and still play it alright and appreciate it, because it's a title from 10 years ago and so on, but the thing that "sells" DAO to me is not its graphic side or overall design. They got much better in this or in visual storytelling, IMO, some flubs notwithstanding. Anyway, the thing about DA4 is that they're sort of in a different position now with it, development-wise, compared to previous DA titles. I don't necessarily expect an issue-free product, because game development is difficult even at best of times, BUT... they appear to have more-or-less solidified style for the series and they're making it on an engine they are now fairly familiar with, after 3 games made on it. That means a lot of assets and animations are instantly reusable, instead of having to make things from scratch, or re-modelling and patching up assets they were able to grab from somewhere else, or transfer from older games. This is why I'm fairly positive that we may see a big jump in quality of animations, compared to DAI. They don't have to design all races or genders from scratch anymore. The assets are there, the animations are there and so on. Now it's time to refine and tweak - so the possibility we'll see more adjustable or more varied animations for different characters is not something taken out of nowhere. I also don't think BW would be un-receptive to the idea of giving us even a limited choice of animations to choose from, at least those that are indeed outside of cinematics, like walking or idle positions, even if it's an idea for a later time. We shall see.
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Polka Dot
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Polka Dot on Jan 28, 2020 21:36:02 GMT
I don't suppose it ever occurred to him that some of us might prefer our characters' gait to be: -- strong and determined -- smart and capable -- graceful and athletic -- energetic and motivated … or any of a bazillion other postures walking might convey. It also apparently never occurred to him that what looks "sexy" to his eyes might look more like a desperate affectation to others. It occurs to me that by just picking one they're always going to disappoint some aspect of the fanbase who may want those four different alternatives. Which is why more choice for the player is always better, so they can tailor their character the way they prefer and not be stuck with stuff they don't. Choice is good. Failing that, simply making the default animations more neutral/less exaggerated is workable. Thanks for that. Yes, as I mentioned in my initial post in this thread. I didn't buy the game at release, and the female walk animation was one of the primary reasons why. It was the same one used for DA2. I did end up buying it a couple of years after release, on sale at amazon for $20 including all DLCs. I learned to tolerate it by pointing the camera at an angle so the characters would walk diagonally across the screen and I didn't have to watch the broken pelvis. I completed one playthrough, started and abandoned another. I never did play all of the DLCs. DAO remains one of my favorite games of all time, but if they don't knock it off with the hyper-exaggerated walk/run animation, I probably won't be going to Tevinter. DAI and DA2 don't use the same walk animation loops. You can say they are similar compared to DAO, but they are hardly the same. DAI's fem walk cycle is just your average game fem walk cycle. Nothing particularly special compared to other games. Calling it hyper-exaggerated is an exaggeration in itself. This is the part where I'll just agree to disagree and bow out.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 28, 2020 22:27:16 GMT
I don't suppose it ever occurred to him that some of us might prefer our characters' gait to be: -- strong and determined -- smart and capable -- graceful and athletic -- energetic and motivated … or any of a bazillion other postures walking might convey. It also apparently never occurred to him that what looks "sexy" to his eyes might look more like a desperate affectation to others. It occurs to me that by just picking one they're always going to disappoint some aspect of the fanbase who may want those four different alternatives. Which is why more choice for the player is always better, so they can tailor their character the way they prefer and not be stuck with stuff they don't. Even Temtem had 4 different run animations, which is actually a pleasant surprise for an indie game which is pretty light on character customisation (for obvious reasons). So players can run around with a determined, business-like gait, and (if they're PessimistPanda) side-eye all the characters with a sexy feminine walk to their hearts content Yea, I think all that is left for us is to wait and see whether there's tech in Frostbite to give us even limited movement/posture customization, but I think we'll see at least some of it at some point in time. None of DA titles allowed us to customize or pick different body types, so it remains to be seen whether we'd get some customization too. But somewhat customizable walk cycles and poses outside of cinematics are probably way easier than body shapes, unless cinematics and stuff like armor/clothing can actually handle all those variables.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 28, 2020 23:28:09 GMT
I mean, is walking animation still an issue really? Playing Andromeda, I don't see any problem with M/F!Ryder's movement. Maybe we should have a sass-level slider, so even the burliest space-bro can waltz into a room like gph.is/1ALQIHv
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 29, 2020 0:41:18 GMT
I don't suppose it ever occurred to him that some of us might prefer our characters' gait to be: -- strong and determined -- smart and capable -- graceful and athletic -- energetic and motivated … or any of a bazillion other postures walking might convey. It also apparently never occurred to him that what looks "sexy" to his eyes might look more like a desperate affectation to others. It occurs to me that by just picking one they're always going to disappoint some aspect of the fanbase who may want those four different alternatives. Which is why more choice for the player is always better, so they can tailor their character the way they prefer and not be stuck with stuff they don't. Even Temtem had 4 different run animations, which is actually a pleasant surprise for an indie game which is pretty light on character customisation (for obvious reasons). So players can run around with a determined, business-like gait, and (if they're PessimistPanda) side-eye all the characters with a sexy feminine walk to their hearts content I don't side-eye characters. CHARACTERS don't do anything wrong. I side-eye creators and players who go out of their way to differentiate the standard male/female animations to the point that even I would notice, because it's FUCKIN WEIRD AS SHIT. And don't come to me with anymore bullshit about real life. Nobody in here gives a shit about "real life". Show me the woman that walks like F-Hawke or a Viera in real life, and I'll show you a woman with advanced hip dysplasia.
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Post by river82 on Jan 29, 2020 0:49:51 GMT
It occurs to me that by just picking one they're always going to disappoint some aspect of the fanbase who may want those four different alternatives. Which is why more choice for the player is always better, so they can tailor their character the way they prefer and not be stuck with stuff they don't. Even Temtem had 4 different run animations, which is actually a pleasant surprise for an indie game which is pretty light on character customisation (for obvious reasons). So players can run around with a determined, business-like gait, and (if they're PessimistPanda) side-eye all the characters with a sexy feminine walk to their hearts content I don't side-eye characters. CHARACTERS don't do anything wrong. I side-eye creators and players who go out of their way to differentiate the standard male/female animations to the point that even I would notice, because it's FUCKIN WEIRD AS SHIT. And don't come to me with anymore bullshit about real life. Nobody in here gives a shit about "real life". Show me the woman that walks like F-Hawke or a Viera in real life, and I'll show you a woman with advanced hip dysplasia. I didn't say F-Hawke or a Viera walked like women in real life. You were the one who expressed doubt that men and women walked differently and that doubt is incorrect. You can side-eye all the characters you want because of the way they walk (you can glance at creators and players through a screen can you?) that's your prerogative. I haven't come across many players that do that though, so advising others that they may get expressions of disapproval for choosing a walk that is "less manly" is dubious advice at best.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 29, 2020 0:57:52 GMT
I don't side-eye characters. CHARACTERS don't do anything wrong. I side-eye creators and players who go out of their way to differentiate the standard male/female animations to the point that even I would notice, because it's FUCKIN WEIRD AS SHIT. And don't come to me with anymore bullshit about real life. Nobody in here gives a shit about "real life". Show me the woman that walks like F-Hawke or a Viera in real life, and I'll show you a woman with advanced hip dysplasia. I didn't say F-Hawke or a Viera walked like women in real life. You were the one who expressed doubt that men and women walked differently and that doubt is incorrect. You can side-eye all the characters you want because of the way they walk (you can glance at creators and players through a screen can you?) that's your prerogative. I haven't come across many players that do that though, so advising others that they may get expressions of disapproval for choosing a walk that is "less manly" is dubious advice at best. I'm just pre-empting the future mass bleating about male oppression and feminazis ruining gaming, when a game finally does introduce a lady-strut slider and all the men who tweak it to "Duck Modelling Victoria's Secret" inevitably get dumped for being creeps.
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Post by river82 on Jan 29, 2020 1:03:35 GMT
I didn't say F-Hawke or a Viera walked like women in real life. You were the one who expressed doubt that men and women walked differently and that doubt is incorrect. You can side-eye all the characters you want because of the way they walk (you can glance at creators and players through a screen can you?) that's your prerogative. I haven't come across many players that do that though, so advising others that they may get expressions of disapproval for choosing a walk that is "less manly" is dubious advice at best. I'm just pre-empting the future mass bleating about male oppression and feminazis ruining gaming, when a game finally does introduce a lady-strut slider and all the men who tweak it to "Duck Modelling Victoria's Secret" inevitably get dumped for being creeps. Funnily enough remember how I said there were 4 types of running styles in Temtem? When I was watching a review of that game by the wife of the guy who hosts MMOBytes, I noticed she chose the most feminine running style available, the one with the hands that sway from side to side in front of them. And while switching to Twitch to watch some FFXIV stream the first stream I switched to a week ago hosted a lady running a Viera … though she's now switched to what she describes as "a cute catgirl" because the bunny girl wouldn't let her wear hats. People can play however they want.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 29, 2020 1:08:13 GMT
I'm just pre-empting the future mass bleating about male oppression and feminazis ruining gaming, when a game finally does introduce a lady-strut slider and all the men who tweak it to "Duck Modelling Victoria's Secret" inevitably get dumped for being creeps. Funnily enough remember how I said there were 4 types of running styles in Temtem? When I was watching a review of that game by the wife of the guy who hosts MMOBytes, I noticed she chose the most feminine running style available, the one with the hands that sway from side to side in front of them. And while switching to Twitch to watch some FFXIV stream the first stream I switched to a week ago hosted a lady running a Viera … though she's now switched to what she describes as "a cute catgirl" because the bunny girl wouldn't let her wear hats. People can play however they want. When did I say that people can't play how they want? I said people getting their dicks in a twist over "chicks walking like dudes" are creepy weirdos.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Jan 29, 2020 1:32:47 GMT
people getting their dicks in a twist over "chicks walking like dudes" are creepy weirdos. ''You always become the thing you fight the most. '' I'm the creepy, weird and glitchy mess of a person because I have been complaining about Bioware animations since the dawn of time Dragon Age origins.
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Post by Onecrazymonkey1 on Jan 29, 2020 1:37:26 GMT
people getting their dicks in a twist over "chicks walking like dudes" are creepy weirdos. ''You always become the thing you fight the most. '' I'm the creepy, weird and glitchy mess of a person because I have been complaining about Bioware animations since the dawn of time Dragon Age origins. If you're creepy, then I'm creepy. I always got annoyed with bioware animations and not just the walking ones either. The broken arms on male elves was a particular annoyance of mine.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Jan 29, 2020 1:46:09 GMT
''You always become the thing you fight the most. '' I'm the creepy, weird and glitchy mess of a person because I have been complaining about Bioware animations since the dawn of time Dragon Age origins. If you're creepy, then I'm creepy. I always got annoyed with bioware animations and not just the walking ones either. The broken arms on male elves was a particular annoyance of mine. Oh I'm creepy, but for totally different reasons. I have a lot of complaints about Bioware animations in general, it has always been a very Bioware-ish problem. Using male animations for female characters is just a puzzle piece of the problem. There is also the invisible-bicycle-running animation that drives me nuts at times, and I could fill an encyclopedia with my complaints about Bioware weapon handling animations.- If I started complaining about this subject I would not shut up till I collapsed from dehydration and lack of sleep.
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Twitter Guru
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 29, 2020 2:05:47 GMT
It occurs to me that by just picking one they're always going to disappoint some aspect of the fanbase who may want those four different alternatives. Which is why more choice for the player is always better, so they can tailor their character the way they prefer and not be stuck with stuff they don't. Even Temtem had 4 different run animations, which is actually a pleasant surprise for an indie game which is pretty light on character customisation (for obvious reasons). So players can run around with a determined, business-like gait, and (if they're PessimistPanda) side-eye all the characters with a sexy feminine walk to their hearts content I don't side-eye characters. CHARACTERS don't do anything wrong. I side-eye creators and players who go out of their way to differentiate the standard male/female animations to the point that even I would notice, because it's FUCKIN WEIRD AS SHIT. And don't come to me with anymore bullshit about real life. Nobody in here gives a shit about "real life". Show me the woman that walks like F-Hawke or a Viera in real life, and I'll show you a woman with advanced hip dysplasia. Viera moves quite differently from Hawke tho And FemHawke actually walks pretty un-real life like. Plus, the fact that you don't pay attention to this stuff doesn't make anyone weird as shit, just more detail-oriented, gee... it's becoming weird as shit that you're so incensed about it, you're now shaming women with wide hips. Because yea, at the very least, some women do indeed walk like that, or close to like that, and do so normally. I'm one of them. I don't have hip dysplasia. I don't wear high heels either. And I certainly don't sway on purpose. I just have wide hips and I'm fairly tall. I also like to walk pretty fast. The faster or more energetic or more confident the walk, the more pronounced the sway and the more 'runway' the walk, despite it being motivated by nothing more than me wanting to walk faster. Sheesh... I never thought this could be controversial Dunno, maybe that's why I'm not as pissed off by... 'runway walk' or 'hyper-exaggerated walk' as some others are. Because a lot of women in my family walk like this and I'm fairly sure I see the hip sway a lot of time I walk outside. We just happen to have generally pretty wide hips and either hourglass or cello shape. Which - surprise, surprise - many women in games do, so for me it's unsurprising they typically have a type of walk they do, because... well... I know it from real life. So chill dude. This is a non-issue not worth you going nuclear about it.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 29, 2020 2:27:22 GMT
''You always become the thing you fight the most. '' I'm the creepy, weird and glitchy mess of a person because I have been complaining about Bioware animations since the dawn of time Dragon Age origins. If you're creepy, then I'm creepy. I always got annoyed with bioware animations and not just the walking ones either. The broken arms on male elves was a particular annoyance of mine. If you're creepy, then I'm creepy. I always got annoyed with bioware animations and not just the walking ones either. The broken arms on male elves was a particular annoyance of mine. Oh I'm creepy, but for totally different reasons. I have a lot of complaints about Bioware animations in general, it has always been a very Bioware-ish problem. Using male animations for female characters is just a puzzle piece of the problem. There is also the invisible-bicycle-running animation that drives me nuts at times, and I could fill an encyclopedia with my complaints about Bioware weapon handling animations.- If I started complaining about this subject I would not shut up till I collapsed from dehydration and lack of sleep. Yea, aside from caring about animation overall, I also see a lot of room for improvement when it comes to Bioware and their animations. I mean... if I were to apply my standards for animation to games, I wouldn't be able to play most of them, because they would have to have Pixar quality or something as crazy But I see progress in 3D animation and I see progress in BW animations from game to game - so it's not a terribly contentious issue for me, but I hope their animators will be given more chances to shine.
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Post by githcheater on Jan 31, 2020 19:06:14 GMT
Careful now ...
Bioware might see this this 6 page topic and conclude that creating a female lead is too risky, because no player can agree on a proper female gait
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 31, 2020 21:18:18 GMT
Careful now ... Bioware might see this this 6 page topic and conclude that creating a female lead is too risky, because no player can agree on a proper female gait Ha ha. I'm fairly certain Bioware folks, entirely on their own, would prefer to have more character customization in their games, including gait or body shape (only one per gender and one per race exists for everyone, as we all know) which also means introducing less classic or binary options and so on. We shall see whether the fact that they don't have to create most models and animations from scratch now means that their programmers, designers and animators will have time and space to tweak things around, or perhaps even push their animations to a new level (for Bioware's RPGs, at least). Naturally, if it doesn't happen, or happens to a small degree, I don't think it's a deal-breaker for most people, especially if other parts of the game will be pretty excellent. It isn't a deal-breaker for me. But since DA4 won't pop up in stores tomorrow, discussions about trivial things will happen and I personally prefer arguments over character movement in game and discussion about animation to 'they may cut female PCs altogether, because I have a wrong idea about animation in games or where would Bioware realistically look into in order to cut costs'
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Post by Frost on Feb 1, 2020 1:42:38 GMT
The pc having a walk I don't like is not a dealbreaker for me. It just bothers me more than other animation issues because you spend much of the game seeing the pc walking or running. Also, for a runway walk, I didn't mean the size of the hips. I meant how the feet are placed in front of each other when walking rather than parallel to each other.
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Post by arvaarad on Feb 1, 2020 3:30:07 GMT
The B O N E S talk makes me laugh every single time it comes up.
Speaking from actual personal experience, there is very little dimorphism in skeletons, the majority of that stuff is just fat. I’ve seen it happen on my own body, and I didn’t start shifting my hormone balance until well after puberty, so zero skeleton changes for me.
Yes, some women have extremely wide pelvises. Some guys do too. There are differences on average, but they’re slighter than most folks assume, especially if we focus on athletically built people. Videogames unfortunately skew toward the overly-exaggerated Hollywood vision of what people look like, with bodies optimized more for bodybuilding or modeling than actual exertion. We’re all a chaotic soup of chemicals and receptors that are acting at different levels.
The tailoring of clothes is meant to accentuate certain features in women and hide them in men — and vice versa — which makes the differences look more pronounced than they actually are. For example, the same butt will look way rounder in women’s jeans than men’s, because men’s jeans usually have an air gap below the butt to make it look less curvy.
Even cues as minor as covering or uncovering my ears make a huge difference in what gender people read me as. Eating more or less food in a meal, without changing my appearance AT ALL, changes whether waiters use “sir” or “ma’am”. I certainly get by just fine without changing my walking animation.
This idea of there being this massive dimorphism is, in most cases, pure nonsense.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 1, 2020 3:31:24 GMT
The pc having a walk I don't like is not a dealbreaker for me. It just bothers me more than other animation issues because you spend much of the game seeing the pc walking or running. Also, for a runway walk, I didn't mean the size of the hips. I meant how the feet are placed in front of each other when walking rather than parallel to each other. I do mean 'runway walk' in this sense too. In fact, even with thighs growing thicker and affecting my gait to a degree I find it hard to change how I walk in order to somewhat accommodate for it. That means a lot of ruined inseams in favorite pants and so on Hence, I don't find the walk to be 'runway', even if I understand it's not reality for all. However, it can't be that exaggerated... because I don't think many people noticed that they occasionally give female gait to Solas in some cinematics I'm not joking - did anyone else here notice this too? This, for example: Is the same as this, save the hand gesture: Or in Trespasser. Yyyyup. This isn't mocapped, it's in-game female gait, just with arms crossed behind. Just a funny observation, if we're getting this far into detail. They intentionally give it to him when they want to give us a peek at his ancient ellfiness/Fen'Harelness. His walk is straighter and more graceful, but he simply doesn't have hips and thighs to visually underline the gait or feet making close steps with. It's a thing that should probably be mentioned a little more often given the context of discussion: that the body models they give us will also have an effect on the gait it was paired with, which is one of reasons why male gait on female looks so funny when put on models they haven't been designed for (I think the biggest issue here is that the male-model based animations is just incompatible proportion-wise with smaller frames of some models, hence diaper walk in women or poor broken arms of shorter and lankier elf males), or why the sway may seem too pronounced on females for some others, given the standard pretty hourglass shape, especially of human model. Different proportions will simply have a different visual effect, entirely aside from internal anatomy or something. It's also true that DAI fashion tends to skew towards skin-tight, and this has a visual effect too.
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