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Post by force58 on Feb 13, 2020 15:52:28 GMT
The more I think about it the more pissed off I get. It's like the Astro's press conference today, "oh yep, we cheated, we won the world series in 2017, it had no effect on the outcome, get over it". BW's half baked statement about dev'ing and putting out 2.0 was a crap show. Once they come out and tell it like it is/was, I might buy in. I know we shouldn't dwell on the past, but dammit, they got my $60 plus and really don't seem to give a sh!t. Last thought, if they end up charging us for whatever 2.0 is, there will be a revolt, calling it now. I fail to see how they didn't say things as they are? They want to do things right, but they need time to fix stuff and create content for soft relaunch, the likes of which we already saw happen successfully multiple times and know very well it usually takes over a year to do, because creating games like this is very hard. This includes reshuffling in leadership and team. In other words - nihli novi. And it's very unlikely anybody's gonna charge anyone anything. People kept negative nancying about how Anthem will monetize virtually everything after launch.... that still didn't happen. They never acknowledged the 6 year dev cycle that turned in to 18 months due to mismanagement at the top, but yet still released the game knowing full well it would tank. You do remember the launch, right? I can't tell you how many times I deleted, reinstalled and replayed this time and time again to no avail for the first 3 weeks the game was out. Being honest would help a ton. They certainly wanted to overcharge for store items, but got caught and adjusted prices, which by the way are still way to high for what we get. It's also the philosophy these days with game companies wrt live service games. It just needs to stop. Maybe I need to get coffee in me.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 13, 2020 15:53:31 GMT
Anthem lost 2 directors. That's people who steer. Robertson was supposed to lead the online service to calm waters. And the other one brought it just over the finish line. Doesn't take negative bias to notice a situation there. These directors aren't auteurs - games need leads, but they aren't rudderless in case something happens to directors, nor we know anything about Anthem remaining rudderless. Them leading Anthem on calmer waters doesn't mean someone didn't already take over to steer the game on an open sea. Anthem had trouble conveying what it was up to launch. A creative director with a clear picture of doable gameplay and the guts to chew through that would have been a benefit during development and marketing. And the reason why they only plan to touch gameplay is likely just because of that. Gameplay, loot especially - that is doable. It's been hanging doable for a whole year now, though. Even after they culled the roadmap.
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 13, 2020 17:26:31 GMT
These directors aren't auteurs - games need leads, but they aren't rudderless in case something happens to directors, nor we know anything about Anthem remaining rudderless. Them leading Anthem on calmer waters doesn't mean someone didn't already take over to steer the game on an open sea. Anthem had trouble conveying what it was up to launch. A creative director with a clear picture of doable gameplay and the guts to chew through that would have been a benefit during development and marketing. And the reason why they only plan to touch gameplay is likely just because of that. Gameplay, loot especially - that is doable. It's been hanging doable for a whole year now, though. Even after they culled the roadmap.
The whole leadership situation surrounding "Anthem" was quite odd. Jonathan Warner was the "Game Director" and supposed driving force behind it's development after Casey left in 08/2014 (along with Derek Watts, Preston Watamaniuk, Perrish Ley to name a few) but I can't say he was a huge presence leading up to, during or after it's launch. I saw him do some interviews, participate in some podcasts and attend some promotional events but the main people I remember speaking during promotion and post-launch was Mike Gamble (Mass Effect), Mark Darrah (Dragon Age), and Ben Irving (SWTOR). I know Jon Warner almost disappeared from the Twitter in March 2019 and in September 2019 he acknowledged he was on a leave of absence due to a family member's cancer diagnosis so I have to wonder if this was something that was being dealt with prior to launch and other voices stepped up to the forefront to cover for him. I have seen Jon on Twitter lately so I have to wonder if he is still leading the re-boot development or if other in-house solutions are leading the IP right now. In checking BioWare's career page. the majority of the recs are for Edmonton with Austin focusing primarily on programmers and software engineers.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 13, 2020 17:51:45 GMT
Anthem had trouble conveying what it was up to launch. A creative director with a clear picture of doable gameplay and the guts to chew through that would have been a benefit during development and marketing. And the reason why they only plan to touch gameplay is likely just because of that. Gameplay, loot especially - that is doable. It's been hanging doable for a whole year now, though. Even after they culled the roadmap.
The whole leadership situation surrounding "Anthem" was quite odd. Jonathan Warner was the "Game Director" and supposed driving force behind it's development after Casey left in 08/2014 (along with Derek Watts, Preston Watamaniuk, Perrish Ley to name a few) but I can't say he was a huge presence leading up to, during or after it's launch. I saw him do some interviews, participate in some podcasts and attend some promotional events but the main people I remember speaking during promotion and post-launch was Mike Gamble (Mass Effect), Mark Darrah (Dragon Age), and Ben Irving (SWTOR). I know Jon Warner almost disappeared from the Twitter in March 2019 and in September 2019 he acknowledged he was on a leave of absence due to a family member's cancer diagnosis so I have to wonder if this was something that was being dealt with prior to launch and other voices stepped up to the forefront to cover for him. I have seen Jon on Twitter lately so I have to wonder if he is still leading the re-boot development or if other in-house solutions are leading the IP right now. In checking BioWare's career page. the majority of the recs are for Edmonton with Austin focusing primarily on programmers and software engineers. Right, it wswas actually 3. I somehow combined Warner and Irving to 1 person in memory.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 13, 2020 18:31:10 GMT
These directors aren't auteurs - games need leads, but they aren't rudderless in case something happens to directors, nor we know anything about Anthem remaining rudderless. Them leading Anthem on calmer waters doesn't mean someone didn't already take over to steer the game on an open sea. Anthem had trouble conveying what it was up to launch. A creative director with a clear picture of doable gameplay and the guts to chew through that would have been a benefit during development and marketing. And the reason why they only plan to touch gameplay is likely just because of that. Gameplay, loot especially - that is doable. It's been hanging doable for a whole year now, though. Even after they culled the roadmap. You're talking about marketing and not them lacking directors though. Also - 'doable' doesn't mean it happens fast or easily. We've had multiple people point out on this thread already that multiple games took more than a year or two to even set things straight, never mind begin showering players with new content. This stuff takes time and - being a 'casualty' of a bad launch years ago - I've been warning people about that several times. Heck, I even said that it's going to be a feat if they set things straight in a year. So what you see as a slog, to me isn't anything particularly worrying at this point in time.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 13, 2020 19:10:44 GMT
I fail to see how they didn't say things as they are? They want to do things right, but they need time to fix stuff and create content for soft relaunch, the likes of which we already saw happen successfully multiple times and know very well it usually takes over a year to do, because creating games like this is very hard. This includes reshuffling in leadership and team. In other words - nihli novi. And it's very unlikely anybody's gonna charge anyone anything. People kept negative nancying about how Anthem will monetize virtually everything after launch.... that still didn't happen. They never acknowledged the 6 year dev cycle that turned in to 18 months due to mismanagement at the top, but yet still released the game knowing full well it would tank. You do remember the launch, right? I can't tell you how many times I deleted, reinstalled and replayed this time and time again to no avail for the first 3 weeks the game was out. Being honest would help a ton. They certainly wanted to overcharge for store items, but got caught and adjusted prices, which by the way are still way to high for what we get. It's also the philosophy these days with game companies wrt live service games. It just needs to stop. Maybe I need to get coffee in me. That's because dev cycles are usually quite messy anyway, so what were they supposed to acknowledge - business may be messier than usual, yet we hope for the best, like with many different games that turned out to be pretty fine? Even Schreier admitted in his article that similar problems plagued many other games, including DAI, The Last Of Us or RDD2. Heck, we've even had devs from CDPR writing to him, anonymously admitting that the development on Cyberpunk looks similar to that of Anthem's and have stories to tell from development of Witcher 3. And those were games that the devs already more or less knew what to do with, and not new kind of project for the studio, like Anthem. This also isn't something that is happening recently - just go and check this horror story from development of highly-acclaimed Prince Of Persia: Sands Of Time from 2003: It's entirely fair to expect a more polished game and better dev cycle so both players and devs aren't as frustrated or discouraged, but I think you may have a pretty skewed idea about how development work on games looks in the first place. Like a lot of creative processes, it's simply darn messy and those who rip their veins off to meet deadline are usually honestly hoping that their product will have a better launch than it did, given that it happened before. And no, nobody wanted to overcharge anyone. See, this is my problem with the discourse here - the devs were what you want them to be: they were honest and said that the prices aren't set yet and that they will be tinkering with pricing prior and after launch. Yet you disbelieve them and accuse them of lack of honesty, just because someone ASSUMED a certain conversion rate for the currency from one screenshot and made drama videos about it, so they can get some sweet $$$ out of milking that 'controversy'. So whatever the devs say, the worst is assumed - therefore I'm not surprised they're speaking less and less or in more vague terms, when virtually everything is held or used against them. Also - live services aren't going anywhere. It's another step in evolution of gaming and digital distribution. Will some try to exploit it, just like they tried with DLCs, MTX or else? Of course they will. But writing off the entire thing off is just throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 13, 2020 21:38:21 GMT
While true that the prices were not initially set, you swallowed that Bio story kit and caboodle.
No one believed (except some) that the value of $20 was a place holder number for a vanity item.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 13, 2020 21:58:16 GMT
Anthem had trouble conveying what it was up to launch. A creative director with a clear picture of doable gameplay and the guts to chew through that would have been a benefit during development and marketing. And the reason why they only plan to touch gameplay is likely just because of that. Gameplay, loot especially - that is doable. It's been hanging doable for a whole year now, though. Even after they culled the roadmap. You're talking about marketing and not them lacking directors though. Also - 'doable' doesn't mean it happens fast or easily. We've had multiple people point out on this thread already that multiple games took more than a year or two to even set things straight, never mind begin showering players with new content. This stuff takes time and - being a 'casualty' of a bad launch years ago - I've been warning people about that several times. Heck, I even said that it's going to be a feat if they set things straight in a year. So what you see as a slog, to me isn't anything particularly worrying at this point in time. No, I'm talking about having a clear concept and the additional benefit of it transporting it easier to the audience. Instead of some hot air they might do during the not early access. Pardon: "live service".
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Post by Iakus on Feb 14, 2020 20:52:15 GMT
These directors aren't auteurs - games need leads, but they aren't rudderless in case something happens to directors, nor we know anything about Anthem remaining rudderless. Them leading Anthem on calmer waters doesn't mean someone didn't already take over to steer the game on an open sea. Anthem had trouble conveying what it was up to launch. A creative director with a clear picture of doable gameplay and the guts to chew through that would have been a benefit during development and marketing. And the reason why they only plan to touch gameplay is likely just because of that. Gameplay, loot especially - that is doable. It's been hanging doable for a whole year now, though. Even after they culled the roadmap.
Eh "Shooter with binary dialogue options in town" made it pretty clear what it was. Along with "You can do the critical storyline solo, but you';re doing it wrong if that's how you play" So I had no reason to buy the game. And I doubt 2.0 is going to change either of these aspects.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 14, 2020 22:45:29 GMT
While true that the prices were not initially set, you swallowed that Bio story kit and caboodle.
No one believed (except some) that the value of $20 was a place holder number for a vanity item.
There were actually some pretty prominent gaming Youtubers who went off the assumption that the armor sets would be $20. Some included Laymen Gaming, YongYeah, and LegacyKilla. IIRC, the price was assumed based off a photo that was taken during a capture event, and the armor sets had a premium currency of 2000 shards (or whatever the currency is). People went on to equate 1 shard to $1. Someone else who attended the event stated that BioWare didn't want anyone taking screenshots of the store because the pricing wasn't set in stone.
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Post by nanotm on Feb 15, 2020 7:51:10 GMT
We knew from Kotaku ~3 months ago there was a significant revamp in the works, so I was a little surprised they waited this long to make an official announcement. How do I feel about this...? I'm torn. On the one hand, this feels like it has Sunk Cost written all over it. And given everything I've seen, the odds of it turning it around are... low.On the other, I want them to say "Screw you Hrungr, game on!" ... and actually prove. me. wrong. Even though Anthem is not really my jam, I am curious to see what the'll come up with... and when. A significant revamp is gonna take time, and $$$. did they ever raise the level cap above 30? i stopped playing without ever completing the main storyline since the game was so buggy but i was also annoyed that i couldn't progress any further without upgrading the difficulty level in order to find better loot, honestly it felt like i was back in 06 when codemasters got a licence to run a Korean mmo for the European market, for the first 3 months they had a stupid low level cap as well, it kinda dulls the mood to play if you cant actually progress... luckily there was the option to roll multiple accounts and multibox (via vm's) and then afk train atribute points (not something anthem implemented) it also had teribad loot but at least it was consistent (you always got something you could use in some way) if they do actually fix it i might play it again in the future but honestly they screwed it up so much i'm not sure, if they dont make a better job of the new DA and ME games they have announced then i wont be bothering again in the future/
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Post by seven on Feb 15, 2020 9:02:45 GMT
30 is still the level cap
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 15, 2020 10:22:38 GMT
Bio is now focusing on Anthem 2.0 or so they say. I don't expect structural changes with Anthem 1.x. Casey himself mentioned expect recycle content.
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Post by nanotm on Feb 15, 2020 19:08:43 GMT
30 is still the level cap and thats a big problem since it should have been at least 50, they made a rather large mistake since the main quest line was bugged for months from launch wihtout getting fixed instead they focused on nerfing the only content that was any use as a player (because when you cant progress to higher level missions and are limited to the same naff dungeon run and freeplay for 2 months and it only ever awards the same 4 bits of loot they nerf those items.....) on top of that it had the same poor gear progression model that infected DAI's mp replete with the exact same bag space limitations.... instead of following either an unlimited storage size (space magic) or going for something like the mass effect gear progression where every model auto upgraded to the next level (hard with all those dodgy side stats on every item) they should have added stat trees that you had to grind up instead of randomly adding stuipid numbers to every item on offer IMHO... thats not to say the game was bad, it had huge potential but it suffered from EA's terminal lack of interest, the parts that worked worked well, but the limitation of world space also hampered the playuer experiance (its pretty boring to farm the same freeplay space none stop for weeks on end to the point you can actually start recognising locations and "micro missions" and how to trigger them (or avoid them) maybe i would have suffered less had i been playing on console but on pc (it was fantastic except for the sever instability and randomly getting booted out) and the obvious mission bugs (not letting you complete the daily missions really killed it for me... and yet the actual mechanics of how the game was played and zipping around in those mech suits was really enjoyable, so yeah i still hope they can produce a game that is a lot less buggy and more well rounded (i mean how hard is it to grant you stats based on getting beaten up or performing a manouver sucessfully, like extra def gained from tanking mobs without getting your shield broken or higher agility for dodging successfully you know like normal mmo's manage)
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Post by cypherj on Feb 17, 2020 4:47:25 GMT
"And to do that properly we’ll be doing something we’d like to have done more of the first time around – giving a focused team the time to test and iterate, focusing on gameplay first."
This sentence just pisses me off. Just come out and say that we stole people's money to have them beta test a half-finished game, and now we're going to actually put in the work that should have been done before the game was released.
When I first saw the Anthem 2.0 title I was going to hope they had a FF XIV type turnaround. But after reading this I hope no one comes back to this game. It will just encourage this type of behavior in the future. One of these live service games needs to just outright fail. These things are a menace.
Edit: I should have finished reading before I posted.
"In the meantime, we will continue to run the current version of Anthem, but move away from full seasons as the team works towards the future of Anthem. We’ll keep the game going with events, , store refreshes, revisiting past seasonal and cataclysm content – starting with our anniversary towards the end of the month."
Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?
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Post by mugwump on Feb 17, 2020 11:05:34 GMT
So, Bioware have confirmed that they will be recycling Anthems meager offerings until such time as they actually get around to fixing the fundamentals? Considering the time this game spent in development, that's kind of ridiculous! In any case, here's hoping Anthem 2.0 moves the game a little closer to what was originally pitched to us back in the day.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by DoctorDAM on Feb 17, 2020 12:27:38 GMT
So, Bioware have confirmed that they will be recycling Anthems meager offerings until such time as they actually get around to fixing the fundamentals? In a word: YES
Thing is, I'm still not sure what "fundamentals" means. See in other "Anthem 2.0" thread where I asked "what is core gameplay?".
Flying is fine, combat is fine. Okay, I've been getting a few more glitches/crashes lately (XBOX), but not crazy amount.
I've only played since December, but what I'd like to see: 1) More story progression. A lot more. Better story. (Hey, I'm an old school Bioware fan. I'd want them to do what they do best.) 2) see above 3) see above
4) Let me choose solo on ALL content if I want to
5) A lot more variety in endgame content (more SH's, a lot more mission objective types). Get it to feel more part of the story.
6) More Javelin types (though honestly, I'm just getting around to "other than Ranger") 7) Time for a new world/map to explore?
8) okay, something something loot progression 9) Less reliance on Daily/Weekly/Monthly challenge grind (TBH, a lot better here than ME:A, but gets old quickly).
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 17, 2020 13:03:32 GMT
Late 2021 is my optimistic date for an Anthem 2.0 launch. Late 2022 is a more pragmatic date.
Also, it better be a brand new game.
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Feb 17, 2020 17:19:18 GMT
My fear is they will release basically the same game as what we already have (with changes, though minor to moderate) and they will make everyone pay the big 100 dollar price tag for it-- cheating those of us who bought the original (*cough* beta version) at full cost. The only way this should be done is a 100% FREE of charge Expansion/DLC, major Patch Update, so as it not completely alienate the player base who bought the first (*cough* 'unfinished') version. And like Force58 said to me, 'they had better continue the STORY'.....
But I highly doubt any of that will happen. I am certain my fears will be realized.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 17, 2020 18:46:09 GMT
I suspect most - if not all - of these changes won't be fully implemented until Feb/March of next year (2021). If they're smart, they'll also implement new story content and activities to go along with said updates.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 17, 2020 19:22:19 GMT
Just try not to think about what this may do to Dragon Age's schedule...
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saandrig
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by saandrig on Feb 17, 2020 20:02:10 GMT
Just try not to think about what this may do to Dragon Age's schedule... I keep telling you, guys: 2024, the 10 year anniversary from DAI = perfect release date!!!
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410
0
Mar 28, 2024 12:21:21 GMT
2,834
Sartoz
5,975
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 17, 2020 21:20:11 GMT
I suspect most - if not all - of these changes won't be fully implemented until Feb/March of next year (2021). If they're smart, they'll also implement new story content and activities to go along with said updates.
Also, get rid of repeating quests to earn x amount of crap.
Imo, Bio needs to rework this game from scratch. Not the flying or the Javelins. ... just everything else... . One of the core mechanics to rework is co-op and the missions designed for it. Frankly, I don't care if they cherry pick the best mechanics/ideas from other games.
And get rid of the useless grind
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410
0
Mar 28, 2024 12:21:21 GMT
2,834
Sartoz
5,975
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 17, 2020 21:25:01 GMT
Just try not to think about what this may do to Dragon Age's schedule... I keep telling you, guys: 2024, the 10 year anniversary from DAI = perfect release date!!!
Hm...
way too far out. 2022 is the latest, that I can see.
If Bio is smart, we will have a 10-15 hr solo RPG game ( somewhat short, imo) then we jump into the MP world.
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✜ The Bunny Chaser
2824
0
Mar 28, 2024 16:09:56 GMT
6,433
Energizer Bunny 211
So far 2024 is the same as the previous three years...
5,807
Jan 15, 2017 18:43:23 GMT
January 2017
energizerbunny211
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Rumbler1138
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Feb 17, 2020 22:48:35 GMT
"If Bio is smart, we will have a 10-15 hr solo RPG game ( somewhat short, imo) then we jump into the MP world." - Sartoz
10 to 15 hours seems awfully short, tragically so. Even if DA 4 plays like ANTHEM, I would still prefer a longer Solo/Story Campaign in the neighbourhood of 30 to 40 hours. But I guess it would be a pipe dream to say I really want a story campaign the length of KOTOR 1/2. KOTOR took me about 60 hours from start to finish....But man, that was some beautiful story telling and rich exploration, characters and gameplay. And the ME OT.....My favourite games ever.
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