ALTBOULI
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ALTBOULI313
XBL Gamertag: ALTBOULI
PSN: ALTBOULI
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Post by ALTBOULI on May 5, 2020 15:27:43 GMT
Thankful for this leak came out, especially if employees have been mistreated. Part 2 plot sounds absolutely garbage, real shame considering how good the original game was.
This political agenda nonsense needs to stay out of video games
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OdanUrr
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Post by OdanUrr on May 5, 2020 19:50:52 GMT
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Post by Hier0phant on May 5, 2020 23:54:29 GMT
I generally have no issues with showing the consequences of violence and how it spirals. I loved Breaking Bad. But I'm not sure this sort of approach works for a videogame. And certainly not for a franchise where people have an emotional investment in these characters. I did an evil Shepard run once and HATED his guts and it was a real ordeal killing characters I loved. I wouldn't describe the experience as fun but at least it was my choice. And I appreciated I had THE CHOICE to make myself miserable playing a piece of shit version of my beloved Shepard just to have seen everything the game has to offer. But it's not like being realistic about the consequences of violence itself has a groundbreaking message. I imagine Abby will realize at the end that revenge is hollow and doesn't make her feel better. DUH. It's the most banal sort of story there is imo. It's the kind of lesson a child may be surprised to learn. Or a very simple minded adult. I honestly can't imagine how this sort of narrative brings anything thought provoking to the table. I just don't see it. The cycle of violence and vengeance theme has been explored countless times across all media, including videogames too, but Druckmann doesn't use the medium's ability to give the player agency over the characters. Without it the experience is barely different from watching an episode of The Walking Dead. Druckmann's only innovation in regards to the theme is in him forcing the player to engage in a prolonged interactive snuff film. *tips Roger Ebert glasses*
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Post by OdanUrr on May 6, 2020 14:52:25 GMT
Likes/dislikes and comments are turned off. Why bother?
Well, I asked for an interesting cut of the trailer and ND delivered by making it as standard and uninteresting as possible. Except for one snippet of a scene, sort of a tease, they've done their utmost not to give anything away, to the point not even Dina shows up in this trailer. For a story trailer you get no sense of what the story is about beyond Ellie killing people, so negative points for that. Did I see her kill someone with a golf club there at the end? Such an ironic coincidence. They haven't tried to alter the game's narrative like Collateral Beauty did with their trailer though, so there's that. I wonder if they'll release another one next month?
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eternalgoddess
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Post by eternalgoddess on May 7, 2020 6:25:31 GMT
Amy Henning, an actual woman: Hey Neil, I got this dope idea for Uncharted 4. Neil, a man, who thinks he champions women: Does it involve women beating the shit out of Nathan for no reason? Amy: Um...no? why would I do that? Anyway I was totally thinking that we can ha- Neil: no no no, whatever your idea is, fuck that shit. I know what women want to see, your gonna have a woman beat Drakes ass for no reason, because girl power Amy! Amy: Um Neil...no offense bruh but this is my franchise, go deal with your zombie mushroom game. Neil: We'll see about that... Clearly, Neil knows how to represent women better than an actual woman. Amy was probably just brainwashed by the patriarchy. She doesn't realize she's keeping herself down. I swear, I am half convinced that all these public male figures who "champion" women's issues are secretly creeps trying way too hard to prove their not. How the hell wasn't Neil getting rid of Amy a massive outrage and a big deal? Here we have a straight white male getting rid of a prominent female developer and taking her job. You'd think SJW and feminist would be all over that but instead crickets. Instead the slimey fucker is hailed among them like a fol hero. Not to mention he's treatment of his employees.
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Post by Kappa Neko on May 7, 2020 19:51:17 GMT
The cycle of violence and vengeance theme has been explored countless times across all media, including videogames too, but Druckmann doesn't use the medium's ability to give the player agency over the characters. Without it the experience is barely different from watching an episode of The Walking Dead. Druckmann's only innovation in regards to the theme is in him forcing the player to engage in a prolonged interactive snuff film. *tips Roger Ebert glasses* Do you have an example where this was done well? A game where the player could influence how badly they get caught in this cycle perhaps? Nothing comes to mind right now. So help me along, I'm curious!
As for the trailer: VERY Walking Dead. They even got their own Glenn now, awwww. Trailer looks fine. Deceptively fine considering the leak and what half of the game is going to be like...
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Post by therevanchist25 on May 7, 2020 20:08:33 GMT
The cycle of violence and vengeance theme has been explored countless times across all media, including videogames too, but Druckmann doesn't use the medium's ability to give the player agency over the characters. Without it the experience is barely different from watching an episode of The Walking Dead. Druckmann's only innovation in regards to the theme is in him forcing the player to engage in a prolonged interactive snuff film. *tips Roger Ebert glasses* Do you have an example where this was done well? A game where the player could influence how badly they get caught in this cycle perhaps? Nothing comes to mind right now. So help me along, I'm curious!
As for the trailer: VERY Walking Dead. They even got their own Glenn now, awwww. Trailer looks fine. Deceptively fine considering the leak and what half of the game is going to be like...
GTA 4, except again they give the player the choice weather or not Niko escapes the cycle.
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Post by Hier0phant on May 8, 2020 4:18:26 GMT
The cycle of violence and vengeance theme has been explored countless times across all media, including videogames too, but Druckmann doesn't use the medium's ability to give the player agency over the characters. Without it the experience is barely different from watching an episode of The Walking Dead. Druckmann's only innovation in regards to the theme is in him forcing the player to engage in a prolonged interactive snuff film. *tips Roger Ebert glasses* Do you have an example where this was done well? A game where the player could influence how badly they get caught in this cycle perhaps? Nothing comes to mind right now. So help me along, I'm curious!
As for the trailer: VERY Walking Dead. They even got their own Glenn now, awwww. Trailer looks fine. Deceptively fine considering the leak and what half of the game is going to be like...
Outside of a few tabletop game sessions there's not that many with the core theme of the cycle of violence, and revenge that have branching story paths that are dictated by player choice with ever snowballing consequences. Mind you some games have a similar theme under certain scenarios like the Way of the Samurai series especially WoTS2. This type of game is possible with studios like Bethesda, Obsidian, or Larian who had experience with the previously mentioned, but the rpg genre being niche and the resources needed might deter them from creating a title with that theme being it's sole focus. So far the games that heavily features the theme but have linear stories too are The God of War 1-4 with 5 potentially looking like TLOU2: Electric Boogaloo, Blood Omen: The Legacy of Kain and The Soul Reaver Trilogy (Amy Hennig's baby) MGSV, and Spec Ops the Line. Funnily enough Amy Hennig already crafted a scenario where you assume control of the vengeance seeking new protagonist who's out to kill the franchise's previous protagonist now antagonist for killing their family. In the last game of the trilogy, SR:Defiance, you assume control of both characters throughout different points in the game and even take control of both characters during their final battle. Druckmann needs to do more for TLOU2 to set it apart from 30 years of videogame storytelling that highlights the theme, and i hope he did so.
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Post by Hier0phant on May 9, 2020 9:35:16 GMT
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Post by cloud9 on May 9, 2020 22:54:35 GMT
Very telling like/dislike ratio, but this is the internet after all. We'll see the truth in sales numbers. Comments are off, by the way.
That's a damn shame.
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Post by eternalgoddess on May 10, 2020 5:33:47 GMT
Lol the memes coming out of these leaks have been great.
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cribbian
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Post by cribbian on May 10, 2020 8:59:28 GMT
and its probably gonna be even better when the game is out
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Post by cloud9 on May 11, 2020 20:12:13 GMT
Saw this video among all the hubub surrounding LoU2. This is very disappointing and unfortunate that Naughty Dog is falling from grace. (Temporarily) I just hope that The Last of Us 2 it's worth all the blood, sweat, and tears.
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Post by Sanunes on May 11, 2020 21:06:48 GMT
Saw this video among all the hubub surrounding LoU2. This is very disappointing and unfortunate that Naughty Dog is falling from grace. (Temporarily) I just hope that The Last of Us 2 it's worth all the blood, sweat, and tears. I am not sure if its temporary. They have lost a good number of their staff since Amy Hennig left the studio, I think it has been reported at 70% turnover so if someone had a different voice they might have been lost to turnover and now its a lot more people that think in the same direction. Now I think if Druckmann leaves it might be a signal for change, but as long as he is still there I doubt there will be any change expect continuing the trend they are on now.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on May 11, 2020 21:16:50 GMT
I caught this today on my feed and its interesting to me. Troy Baker did an Instagram Q&A (which I am just reading this summary) and it sounds like he doesn't fully understand what they leak of the game really is and how much was really revealed. Here is what they reported he said when asked about it. He didn't seem aware that over a hour of the CGI videos were put up for people to look watch and seem to have given away the entire plot of the game. There are plenty of cases where people probably can point to leaked content demonstrating how poor a piece of media can be. If you care to read here is the article I read. Gamerant Article
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Post by clips7 on May 12, 2020 1:29:26 GMT
I caught this today on my feed and its interesting to me. Troy Baker did an Instagram Q&A (which I am just reading this summary) and it sounds like he doesn't fully understand what they leak of the game really is and how much was really revealed. Here is what they reported he said when asked about it. He didn't seem aware that over a hour of the CGI videos were put up for people to look watch and seem to have given away the entire plot of the game. There are plenty of cases where people probably can point to leaked content demonstrating how poor a piece of media can be. If you care to read here is the article I read. Gamerant ArticleI saw the youtube video he did recently and to me, while i'm sure he's a nice guy, this kinda reeks of damage control.....alot of times folks like this are just exactly what they are...(voice actors) and these folks aren't necessarily gamers or follow what is actually going on with the game..(and that's ok)......i mean yeah they promote when they have to, but to me it seems like these folks don't really follow what is going on with it....they get paid as voice actors and keep it movin'. I saw some more plot leaks of the game and while i'm still frustrated with what i've read so far, i'm still willing to play the game for myself to see how everything unfolds.....
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Post by Sanunes on May 12, 2020 3:44:40 GMT
I caught this today on my feed and its interesting to me. Troy Baker did an Instagram Q&A (which I am just reading this summary) and it sounds like he doesn't fully understand what they leak of the game really is and how much was really revealed. Here is what they reported he said when asked about it. He didn't seem aware that over a hour of the CGI videos were put up for people to look watch and seem to have given away the entire plot of the game. There are plenty of cases where people probably can point to leaked content demonstrating how poor a piece of media can be. If you care to read here is the article I read. Gamerant ArticleI saw the youtube video he did recently and to me, while i'm sure he's a nice guy, this kinda reeks of damage control.....alot of times folks like this are just exactly what they are...(voice actors) and these folks aren't necessarily gamers or follow what is actually going on with the game..(and that's ok)......i mean yeah they promote when they have to, but to me it seems like these folks don't really follow what is going on with it....they get paid as voice actors and keep it movin'. I saw some more plot leaks of the game and while i'm still frustrated with what i've read so far, i'm still willing to play the game for myself to see how everything unfolds..... I agree I don't expect them to live and breath the game, but I just thought even if it was damage control he would have had a better idea what happened just to sound more authentic to knowing what is going on.
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Post by OdanUrr on May 12, 2020 12:29:18 GMT
I caught this today on my feed and its interesting to me. Troy Baker did an Instagram Q&A (which I am just reading this summary) and it sounds like he doesn't fully understand what they leak of the game really is and how much was really revealed. Here is what they reported he said when asked about it. He didn't seem aware that over a hour of the CGI videos were put up for people to look watch and seem to have given away the entire plot of the game. There are plenty of cases where people probably can point to leaked content demonstrating how poor a piece of media can be. If you care to read here is the article I read. Gamerant ArticleI am more inclined to believe he has been clued into the extent of the leak and this simply was a PR stunt designed to mitigate some of the damage done. A cursory search would've told him the leak was more than a couple of screenshots. Sony and Naughty Dog wouldn't be losing their shit over a couple of screenshots (unless they're golf-related). His argument that ND has 30+ years of experience and has garnered several awards in the past is not necessarily indicative of the quality of their next title. In fact, I'd argue the longer you've gone without tripping over yourself, the higher the chances are that you'll do so with your next title, something we've seen happen to every game studio. He fails to acknowledge that the Naughty Dog of today isn't the same as the one that gathered all that praise in the past, having experienced a mass exodus of non-lead designers since Uncharted 4, not to mention Amy Hennig's unceremonious departure after bringing us the adventures of Nathan Drake in the great Uncharted Trilogy.
I'd suggest he watch this video first the next time:
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Post by Camel on May 12, 2020 16:31:45 GMT
The funny thing is how the Last of Us 2 debacle reminds me of the ME3 ending fiasko. 1. The devs from both companies touting artistic freedom. 2. Neil Druckmann with his plot/Casey Hudson with his "lots of speculation". 3. Treatment of beloved characters from TLOU2 and ME3. 4. Fan hate towards some characters. 5. Plot of both games was leaked before release. And I was defending ME3 and it's plot before release just like many TLOU fans do now.
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Post by jclosed on May 12, 2020 17:27:01 GMT
Hmm... Just watched this video. It looks like something fishy is going on. I have no idea if it's true or not. Just passing it through...
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Post by eternalgoddess on May 13, 2020 9:03:27 GMT
and its probably gonna be even better when the game is out Yeah and lots of articles coming out calling us gamers sexist homophoes for not liking it.
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Post by OdanUrr on May 13, 2020 19:28:51 GMT
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Post by Sanunes on May 13, 2020 20:44:08 GMT
Hmm... Just watched this video. It looks like something fishy is going on. I have no idea if it's true or not. Just passing it through... I haven't watch the video, but I have seen people leave reviews for unreleased games on the Playstation store before. Its probably people "protecting" the score of the game because they are afraid of people who are going to review bomb the game before its released.
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Post by formerfiend on May 14, 2020 20:34:17 GMT
So I'm one of the few people who didn't particularly care for the original The Last of Us, and honestly I haven't personally liked any of Naughty Dog's games since Jak III.
Having said that I was mildly interested in picking up Part II for the same reason I was interested in Dishonored 2; playing as the child who was the protectee in the last game offers the opportunity for a new story to be told which as potential to be interesting.
And the story they've ended up telling... well it's not exactly breaking new ground, the cycle of violence is a story that has been told many times before. It's a story worth retelling; Joel & Ellie both did some fucked up shit in TLOU 1 and that catching up to them isn't a bad way to go with it.
To me the "how" they're going about that is the bigger problem. Having us play as Ellie with Joel first and then switching over to Abby after she murders Joel is too big of an ask. The way to do it is to start us off with Abby and get us emotionally invested in her before building to the reveal that it was Joel who killed her parents so we could reasonably be expected to take her side when the confrontation comes up and then there's conflict over who to side with while playing as Ellie.
It's too big of a hurtle to get over to like Abby after she's killed the character we've formed an emotional attachment to over a game and a half, and however the final ending goes, it doesn't work playing as her for it. If she chooses to spare Ellie & Dinah at the end of the last cut scene, so what, she's already got her revenge so her "breaking the cycle" is just her choosing to deny Ellie her revenge. And if she doesn't & does ultimately kill one or both of them, then the message is "vengeance is fine so long as you're badass enough to withstand the reprisals".
I don't know.
I will say that the complaints about 'agenda' regarding Ellie's orientation and whether or not Abby is trans seem... bizarre to me, quite frankly. Like... that isn't what's wrong with this game. What's wrong with this game, apparently, is that they're killing the characters we're meant to have grown to like and then forcing us into the perspective of the one who did it after the fact. If Abby was/is cis, that doesn't make killing Joel any less of a slap in the face to fans of the first game. It doesn't make the ending of them mercilessly beating Ellie & Dinah to a pulp any less gratuitous and insulting. The possibility of Abby being trans has absolutely no impact on the quality of those decisions what so ever.
And likewise, I've seen people complain about Ellie being gay as if that... mattered? If the story was exactly the same except Ellie & Dinah were just friends instead of lovers or Dinah was replaced with a male love interest for Ellie, then the story wouldn't be any better or worse than it is.The issues with this story do not stem from the decision for Ellie to be gay, nor are they exacerbated by it.
So I do not understand the conflating of the apparent massive flaw in the way the game is structured and the direction of it's plot wit those two elements.
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Post by smilesja on May 14, 2020 20:48:34 GMT
So I'm one of the few people who didn't particularly care for the original The Last of Us, and honestly I haven't personally liked any of Naughty Dog's games since Jak III. Having said that I was mildly interested in picking up Part II for the same reason I was interested in Dishonored 2; playing as the child who was the protectee in the last game offers the opportunity for a new story to be told which as potential to be interesting. And the story they've ended up telling... well it's not exactly breaking new ground, the cycle of violence is a story that has been told many times before. It's a story worth retelling; Joel & Ellie both did some fucked up shit in TLOU 1 and that catching up to them isn't a bad way to go with it. To me the "how" they're going about that is the bigger problem. Having us play as Ellie with Joel first and then switching over to Abby after she murders Joel is too big of an ask. The way to do it is to start us off with Abby and get us emotionally invested in her before building to the reveal that it was Joel who killed her parents so we could reasonably be expected to take her side when the confrontation comes up and then there's conflict over who to side with while playing as Ellie. It's too big of a hurtle to get over to like Abby after she's killed the character we've formed an emotional attachment to over a game and a half, and however the final ending goes, it doesn't work playing as her for it. If she chooses to spare Ellie & Dinah at the end of the last cut scene, so what, she's already got her revenge so her "breaking the cycle" is just her choosing to deny Ellie her revenge. And if she doesn't & does ultimately kill one or both of them, then the message is "vengeance is fine so long as you're badass enough to withstand the reprisals". I don't know. I will say that the complaints about 'agenda' regarding Ellie's orientation and whether or not Abby is trans seem... bizarre to me, quite frankly. Like... that isn't what's wrong with this game. What's wrong with this game, apparently, is that they're killing the characters we're meant to have grown to like and then forcing us into the perspective of the one who did it after the fact. If Abby was/is cis, that doesn't make killing Joel any less of a slap in the face to fans of the first game. It doesn't make the ending of them mercilessly beating Ellie & Dinah to a pulp any less gratuitous and insulting. The possibility of Abby being trans has absolutely no impact on the quality of those decisions what so ever. And likewise, I've seen people complain about Ellie being gay as if that... mattered? If the story was exactly the same except Ellie & Dinah were just friends instead of lovers or Dinah was replaced with a male love interest for Ellie, then the story wouldn't be any better or worse than it is.The issues with this story do not stem from the decision for Ellie to be gay, nor are they exacerbated by it. So I do not understand the conflating of the apparent massive flaw in the way the game is structured and the direction of it's plot wit those two elements. This is what happens when anti-SJWs and SJWs review a game. All nuance is gone.
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