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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 13, 2020 2:27:04 GMT
Personally I think cora is. When you see her help that asari pathfinder with the barrier to protect the asari ark from the kett ship Cora makes the barrier like ten times bigger when she helps then when that asari did when she did it herself. Given the thing held back and then sent back enough firepower to destroy a ship bigger then the ark and made for war I think it is safe to assume she is even stronger then jack so she is already the strongest human biotic it seems like. Plus she knows charge in the game which is supposed to be really hard if I remember correctly.
Who do you think is the strongest?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 13, 2020 3:01:50 GMT
The Biotic God, obviously.
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Post by burningcherry on Mar 13, 2020 3:27:19 GMT
1) If you want the increased size of the bubble to be an argument, you need to know the formula of radius depending on energy, which is unknown. In particular, the assumption of constant energy density cannot be validated – the bubble becomes visibly less dense during the expansion stage. 2) The bubble did not stop artillery fire but low-speed cruise missiles. We actually know precisely how strong is the bubble barrier Cora can spawn alone: just enough to quickly jam an industry-tier automatic gate (ME: Initiation, chapter 3), and deflecting those missiles with a while of buildup, under adrenaline and with the help of an equal seems to be consistent with this. 3) "charge […] is supposed to be really hard" – where was that? The technical description (ME: Initiation, chapter 15) paints this technique as pretty basic, as opposed to for example singularity, outright stated as "one of the most powerful biotic abilities" (ME: Ascension, chapter 10).
Answering the question: Jack.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 13, 2020 3:33:12 GMT
Not Cora. Aria, Jack, Samara all IMO are stronger than Cora. Expanding a field is probably easier than creating one of size in the first place. Cora herself was impressed with how strong Sarissas barriers were in a way that implied Cora felt Sarissa was stronger.
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Post by Phantom on Mar 13, 2020 16:01:38 GMT
The Biotic God, obviously. thank you, Hanako. You gave me a hilarous idea for my Volus Infiltrator to actually do that to a Reaper.
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Post by sassafrassa on Mar 13, 2020 17:55:49 GMT
Probably Jack
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Mar 13, 2020 18:42:02 GMT
When playing ME2 I didnt feel she was any more powerful than shep-adept or Samara etc. I wonder did the character have more power in its stats or not, though last time I skipped her mission - found them too tedious now. Also she's tissuepaper even before Insanity level, like most companions are on Insanity.. I think strongest biotic in OT is Shep anyway and in A - Ryder.
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Post by sassafrassa on Mar 13, 2020 19:49:26 GMT
When playing ME2 I didnt feel she was any more powerful than shep-adept or Samara etc. I'm speaking purely to what the narrative tell us. In combat neither Jack nor Samara are very impressive. However in the narrative, Jack easily destroys several YMIR mechs in seconds.
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Post by burningcherry on Mar 13, 2020 20:02:12 GMT
When playing ME2 I didnt feel she was any more powerful than shep-adept or Samara etc. I'm speaking purely to what the narrative tell us. In combat neither Jack nor Samara are very impressive. However in the narrative, Jack easily destroys several YMIR mechs in seconds. And Samara's pull is stronger than a skycar engine.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Mar 13, 2020 20:03:57 GMT
Yeah this disparity I mean, it really bothers me
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Post by clips7 on Mar 18, 2020 4:56:50 GMT
Its hard to say...i think Jack is powerful...but i think it's not disciplined....just rage. I want to say Samarah.....she seems like a strong disciplined warrior and she's seems the type that would cancel out Jack's rage in terms of her biotics and focus with pin-point accuracy with deadly powerful Biotic attacks....now it is possible that jack might overwhelm somebody with her biotics in terms of her rage, but i always thought somebody like a disciplined person like Samarah would be able to take out somebody like Jack who might get careless with her attacks with ease. Liara and Samrah might be a good challenge....but even Liara kinda notices her strict dedication to the code that made it seem like Samarah is no joke and a powerful seasoned vet...Cora never gave me the impression she was a powerful biotic.... That first intro for Jack in ME2?...where she raised a path of chaos and destruction and obliterated Mech units on the way out?....that's how you introduce a powerful Biotic....and then Samarah...driven, focused and stern to her code....she's softly spoken and you may give her a skeptic side eye, but you also get the feeling that you better not try her....
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Post by Polka Dot on Mar 18, 2020 6:45:53 GMT
Liara's singularity rocks - and she's the only follower who has it.
On Sur'Kesh in particular, I like to watch for the Cerberus shuttle door to open and toss a singularity inside... and watch the fools float away. She is rather fragile, though, with a minimal health pool.
As for Cora, there may be a point to be made about the fact that she's learned to combine her power with that of others. Jack talks a good game about an all-biotic squad, but they all act independently - kinda like the psychotic herself.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Mar 18, 2020 9:56:01 GMT
Not including the PC, in terms of lore, probably Samara. Samara and Jack, if they ever fight, is like Thanos vs Hulk. While Hulk is comparable to Thanos in terms of raw strength, Thanos wins out with thousands of years of experience and control. Aria doesn't focus only on her biotics (and in terms of gameplay she's more like a Krogan), Liara and Peebee are too young and the others are just not as strong. In terms of gameplay? Liara hands down. Only she has the excellent singularity to make a soup out of the opponents, highly useful in all 3 games.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Mar 18, 2020 16:50:14 GMT
Personally I think cora is. When you see her help that asari pathfinder with the barrier to protect the asari ark from the kett ship Cora makes the barrier like ten times bigger when she helps then when that asari did when she did it herself. Given the thing held back and then sent back enough firepower to destroy a ship bigger then the ark and made for war I think it is safe to assume she is even stronger then jack so she is already the strongest human biotic it seems like. Plus she knows charge in the game which is supposed to be really hard if I remember correctly.
Who do you think is the strongest?
And I would pick Samara due to her experience and training.
Liara MIGHT be the most powerful in the series, because IIRC in the novel Mass Effect: Revelation it's stated that Singularity is one of the most powerful (if not the most powerful) biotic ability of all and Liara seems to do with ease but she is still young and doesn't seem to have military training. By the time of MEA if Liara was still alive in the MWG she might be the most powerful biotic in the games.
Jack might be the most powerful human biotic, while Cora might be the most powerful human solider in the series.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 18, 2020 18:17:44 GMT
When playing ME2 I didnt feel she was any more powerful than shep-adept or Samara etc. I wonder did the character have more power in its stats or not, though last time I skipped her mission - found them too tedious now. Also she's tissuepaper even before Insanity level, like most companions are on Insanity.. I think strongest biotic in OT is Shep anyway and in A - Ryder. Discrepancy in what shockwave is supposed to be in the setting and what shockwave is in the mechanics.
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Post by Serza on Mar 19, 2020 11:52:00 GMT
Has to be an Asari, or, MAYBE, Jack.
Remember, Cora is exceptional for Human biotics. She is also "on the level of a 20-year-old Asari child" in some aspects.
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 19, 2020 12:03:31 GMT
Has to be an Asari, or, MAYBE, Jack. Remember, Cora is exceptional for Human biotics. She is also "on the level of a 20-year-old Asari child" in some aspects. Looking at Pipi Poopoo that doesn't seem to take much.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 19, 2020 14:25:16 GMT
You created the same thread nearly a year ago.
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Post by Polka Dot on Mar 19, 2020 15:14:58 GMT
When playing ME2 I didnt feel she was any more powerful than shep-adept or Samara etc. I wonder did the character have more power in its stats or not, though last time I skipped her mission - found them too tedious now. Also she's tissuepaper even before Insanity level, like most companions are on Insanity.. I think strongest biotic in OT is Shep anyway and in A - Ryder. Discrepancy in what shockwave is supposed to be in the setting and what shockwave is in the mechanics. Yeah, lore/gameplay segmentation is pretty common throughout ME (and other series). That's also true of cutscenes, many of which not only defy lore, but are also inconsistent among each other. Cutscenes are designed to be dramatic and/or convey something in particular at that stage of the game. For example, on Jack's recruitment mission, we are led to believe she single-handedly tore through multiple mechs and bulkheads. This was intended to convey that she is uniquely gifted and hella powerful. In ME3's Grissom Academy rescue, she runs away from a single Atlas mech to convey her dedication to protecting her students. I generally take lore/codex to be the world they intended to create. Gameplay designers take liberties with it to make combat more fun, and cutscene designers do likewise to convey specific narrative points and often employ the rule of cool quite liberally.
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Post by burningcherry on Mar 19, 2020 15:42:21 GMT
Discrepancy in what shockwave is supposed to be in the setting and what shockwave is in the mechanics. Yeah, lore/gameplay segmentation is pretty common throughout ME (and other series). That's also true of cutscenes, many of which not only defy lore, but are also inconsistent among each other. Cutscenes are designed to be dramatic and/or convey something in particular at that stage of the game. For example, on Jack's recruitment mission, we are led to believe she single-handedly tore through multiple mechs and bulkheads. This was intended to convey that she is uniquely gifted and hella powerful. In ME3's Grissom Academy rescue, she runs away from a single Atlas mech to convey her dedication to protecting her students. I generally take lore/codex to be the world they intended to create. Gameplay designers take liberties with it to make combat more fun, and cutscene designers do likewise to convey specific narrative points and often employ the rule of cool quite liberally. True that cutscenes sometimes border on cartoonism but the Shadow Broker's vids weren't cutscenes. Jack looks less impressive than Samara on them but I'm giving her credit for using underdeveloped implants.
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Post by cyberpunker on Mar 19, 2020 16:06:10 GMT
You created the same thread nearly a year ago. This is totally the same thread! But I'll repost my answers! In terms of biotics, Asari will always naturally be better than all other races. Humans require implants, Turians actively repress their biotic development, Krogans don't take advantage of their biotics, and Salarians suck at it (but can get better with experimental bio-amps like Agent Zeta below). Rachni biotics are strong, but we don't know how strong. 1. Morinth: Morinth is an Ardak-Yakshi who grows more powerful with every victim she consumes. And by ME3, Morinth has consumed countless. In terms of raw potential, Morinth is number 1, because not even the strongest Justicars or Matriarchs can keep growing their powers in the same way an Ardak-Yakshi can. Ardak-Yakshi are parasitical, but that just means the sky's the limit for their biotic powers. Morinth and Samara are equal in ability, as shown in ME2 where they square off. Also Morinth is capable of maintaining the Biotic Barrier in the same way her mother can. However, Morinth does all this while still maintaining a facade of being Samara. In other words, Samara was concentrating her full might during combat and also in maintaining the Biotic Barrier. But Morinth was able to do that, while still having extra concentration to pretend to be Samara. It is kind of like a PS3 and a PC emulating a PS3. The PC has to be more powerful in order to be a PS3 while also being a PC. That's why I think Morinth is just slightly better than Samara. Also again, the fact that if it weren't for the Reapers, Morinth's growth as an unchecked Ardak-Yakshi means that her biotics can theoretically grow ad infinitum. 1.5. Samara: See above. Despite being a Matron only, Samara has reached Matriarch level abilities by virtue of her Justicar lifestyle. Justicars are full time professional Asari warriors, and unlike all other Asari, they never take a break. Finally reaching Matriarch level abilities while only being a Matron means Samara would probably be the most powerful Matriarch once she reaches that stage. So that is probably the reason why Samara is so powerful that she can match an Ardak-Yakshi in biotics. Basically Justicars live, eat, and breath combat. And that is probably why they are so feared in Asari society, even by Asari Commandos. I just don't have her as the most powerful because Morinth has the capacity to do what Samara does...while pretending to be someone else. Also, by virtue of being Ardak-Yakshi, Morinth can grow to be exponentially more powerful than Samara. 2/3. Jack or Aria: I cannot tell who is more powerful between Jack and Aria. For starters, Jack can also maintain the Biotic Barrier. But unlike Morinth and Samara, Jack is visibly strained during that endeavor. She survives, but not as easily as Morinth or Samara. Jack is also the pinnacle of Human Biotics, being exposed to unnatural levels of Element Zero and having other manipulations done on her. The reason why Aria is at her level is because Aria manages to her biotics to open a small hole in a virtually impenetrable stasis field on Omega...through sheer will alone. That shows Aria's biotic strength is augmented by her personality and willpower, in addition to her time as an Asari Commando. We don't know how these 2 compare, but it is clear that Aria is stronger than your average Asari Commando based on what she has done. The reason why both are weaker than Samara is because Jack strains under the Biotic Barrier; Aria is wary of Samara when they first meet. Unlike the way Aria is to other people including Shepard, Aria is not as aggressive or condescending towards Samara when they first meet. It is not just out of respect either, Aria always makes sure people know she thinks she is the Queen Bee in all her conversations. With Samara though, Aria is visibly more cautious...probably because Aria doubts her ability to survive Samara if she triggers a Justicar Code violation. 4. Matriarch Benezia: So far, Benezia is the only one to escape Indoctrination through sheer power alone...even if it is just for a moment. Nobody else manages to do so, ever. That shows her biotics are strong enough to force out even the Reapers' influence for a time. Benezia was also mentioned as not only having been a former commando, but a very powerful biotic even amongst the Matriarchs. And in terms of Lore, Matriarchs are one of the most powerful groups of Asari. So that's why she's number 4. Not sure if she can do what Jack or Aria did though. 5. Agent Zeta: Salarians aren't really known for their strong biotics, but Agent Zeta or Olan Kooth was an exception. Being a talented biotic for a Salarian, he qualified for the STG and began experimenting with bio-amps when the existing Salarian amps (probably the most advanced in the galaxy) were inadequate to boost his abilities any further. Zeta is not as powerful as an Asari without his amps. But armed with Zeta's own unstable experimental amps, Zeta was able to hold his own against over a dozen infantry, heavy mechs, and drone platforms AND beat every single human biotic he came across. The only other person we've seen holding off this many people at once by themselves is Jack. This hints that with overloaded, experimental, and unstable amps, Zeta is able to match what Jack can do normally. But Zeta is unable to consistently maintain that level of power, and so should not be regarded as to be as powerful as Jack. That's why he's number 5. I want to talk about others who I think people here overrate. 1. Cora. It's true Cora receives Asari Commando training and is a pretty good biotic for a human. But she clearly mentions that she was not the strongest biotic in her squad. She also does not have the full commando training that an average Asari has, being trained only as an exchange. So really, Cora at best is an average Asari Commando in terms of biotical tactics and skills. In terms of raw potential, she is just a normal human (unlike Jack). She can use her biotics to shield the crew, but so could other Asari. This is also Andromeda's writers' fault. They don't take the time to really differentiate Cora's abilities from other Asari, and they actually try to just make her out to be an Asari Commando without really explaining how that fits into their overall lore and how Cora compares to an actual Asari Commando. Andromeda writers also don't bother to emphasize the differences between Asari, Angara, and Cora's abilities in the game, so yeah. 2. Tela Vasir: We aren't really given a lot of insight into her biotic abilities. She is a Spectre and probably a former Asari Commando. That's about it. She doesn't really showcase any of her biotics that are exceptional or that show she is more talented than the any other Asari Commando. She is a Spectre though, so she probably has better combat and biotic skills than most other Asari. But that's as far as we know. 3. Liara: By virtue of being Asari, she's already ahead of the game and is the natural biotic squad-mate in ME1, ME2, and ME3. But in terms of Lore, she isn't an Asari Commando and so doesn't have extensive biotic training. She's still relatively young for an Asari. She is also a pure-blood, which is unclear if that is a hindrance against her biotic abilities but is hinted that it definitely does not help...unless she is an Ardak-Yakshi (which she is not) 4. PeeBee: See Liara. Strong biotic by virtue of being Asari. That's about all she has going for her. Miranda/Jacob/Javik/Wrex/Kaidan are all examples of how biotics are really good in other races too, and can make them very good combatants. But these guys don't compare to the Asari and Jack lol.
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Post by burningcherry on Mar 19, 2020 18:52:24 GMT
In terms of biotics, Asari will always naturally be better than all other races. No, see what the Dark Energy plot was to be about and how was set up in ME: Retribution. No, the angaran abilities have nothing to do with biotics. Read the Codex or just listen to Jaal on the ship. Source for the accumulation of biotic power thing. Morinth did not have to pretend anything during that fight with Samara. Why? They have identical lines and animations, tones differents because of personalities. There's no limit achieved at tech for human biotics. "Her screening interviews state she was raised in poverty on an independent cargo freighter, joining the Alliance at eighteen to obtain training for her powerful biotic abilities. However, Cora claims her superiors saw her talents as a liability, supported by test scores showing her abilities spike at abnormally high levels." "Prove your biotics can rip an APC apart, and people get nervous. Funny, that." This is not a serious argument in a discussion about biotics.
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Post by cyberpunker on Mar 20, 2020 20:06:58 GMT
In terms of biotics, Asari will always naturally be better than all other races. No, see what the Dark Energy plot was to be about and how was set up in ME: Retribution. You are going to have to explain it to me. I don't know what you mean? Again, you are going to have to explain that to me. Look it up. masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Ardat-Yakshi_(power) & masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Ardat-Yakshi You misread me. Morinth had to pretend like she was Samara during the Biotic Barrier in the Suicide Mission AND maintain the barrier. No they don't. If you somehow have a save file in ME2 or find a clip, you'll see Jack is more visibly strained. Also Jack mentions that she was strained when reflecting on it in ME3. Unsure what you are trying to say? Jack is still the pinnacle thus far according to the lore. What are you trying to say? Cora is very strong in terms of biotics? Sure. What is not a serious argument in a discussion about biotics? If you're skeptical about what I had to say, you need to tell me what exactly you are referring to. I'm saying Miranda and the rest do not exhibit Jack or Asari level of biotics. Why is what I have to say "not serious" according to you?
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Post by burningcherry on Mar 20, 2020 20:30:14 GMT
No, see what the Dark Energy plot was to be about and how was set up in ME: Retribution. You are going to have to explain it to me. I don't know what you mean? Karpyshyn said something like that: "Then we thought, let's take it to the next level. Maybe the Reapers are looking at a way to stop this. Maybe there's an inevitable descent into the opposite of the Big Bang (the Big Crunch) and the Reapers realise that the only way they can stop it is by using biotics, but since they can't use biotics they have to keep rebuilding society - as they try and find the perfect group to use biotics for this purpose. The Asari were close but they weren't quite right, the Protheans were close as well.", then established that the limits of human biotics are very far from what was already reached and that the Reapers are highly interested in it. So the supreme biotic race is humans. They're not biotics. Should I quote all cases Jaal or any angara is surprised that biotics exist or what they are? Nice but the "consumption of power" thing only refers to health and somehow weapon damage. Power recharge is a side effect of this evo. Phrase "biotic" not found. Ah, the barrier. That's right. I saw it on YT and there's no difference above what follows from their personalities. That Samara doesn't mention being fatigued in ME3 is not an argument because you don't talk to her about that moment IIRC. "Pinnacle" := something that can't be surpassed. That's not the case. I meant to disprove your statement that "In terms of raw potential, she is just a normal human". Codex: "[...] 2158 – Humans learn potential of biotics [...]" Also Codex but after flash preceded lore: "Miranda Lawson is a [...] biotic. She was created in 2150 [...]" The argument's foundation is broken unless you restrict it to people whose biotics aren't timeline contradictions.
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cyberpunker
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by cyberpunker on Mar 20, 2020 21:14:54 GMT
You are going to have to explain it to me. I don't know what you mean? Karpyshyn said something like that: "Then we thought, let's take it to the next level. Maybe the Reapers are looking at a way to stop this. Maybe there's an inevitable descent into the opposite of the Big Bang (the Big Crunch) and the Reapers realise that the only way they can stop it is by using biotics, but since they can't use biotics they have to keep rebuilding society - as they try and find the perfect group to use biotics for this purpose. The Asari were close but they weren't quite right, the Protheans were close as well.", then established that the limits of human biotics are very far from what was already reached and that the Reapers are highly interested in it. So the supreme biotic race is humans. Good quote. But Humans in lore despite potential, are still behind Asari. I looked it up. Yes you are right. I edited my post. You are just missing the meaning then. What do you think they are talking about when they say Morinth's power grew to the point where she can match Samara's powers despite Samara's 500 years o experience? We may be watching 2 different videos then. Jack is audibly strained in that video. She admits it in Mass Effect 3. Samara is not strained. What do you mean by "not an argument?" Who am I arguing against? Am I arguing against you? What exactly are you saying that I'm arguing against? I'm confused. Pinnacle literally means the peak; not that it can't be passed. I'm not getting what are you trying to say with Cora??? Sorry but talking about my choice of words is not really letting me know what you want to say, unless what you want to say is that you didn't understand what I mean by "pinnacle". I see. Not sure how you are "disproving" anything by just quoting something and leaving it out there. Cora is a normal human biotic. Sure, she is strong and she is a very good human biotic. But there's nothing special about her that makes her a Jack. Miranda and Jacob are very good biotics too. Kaidan too. What argument? Sorry I can't discuss something with you if you don't say what you want to say clearly.
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