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Post by cloud9 on Apr 16, 2020 16:45:36 GMT
I think the window of opportunity to fix the Mass Effect trilogy is long closed. There’s always the possibility of a flat out remake, but I honestly would put as much hope toward that as I would Chinese takeout restaurants reopening this week. Hopefully, Obsidian Entertainment is willing to make Mass Effect great again if BioWare decides to pass the torch.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 16, 2020 16:56:16 GMT
I think the window of opportunity to fix the Mass Effect trilogy is long closed. There’s always the possibility of a flat out remake, but I honestly would put as much hope toward that as I would Chinese takeout restaurants reopening this week. Some people have no concept of what a software development cycle is. In the end, the most we’ll get is probably another soft reboot. I would lean toward the IP flat out being abandoned, but BioWare doesn’t really have a whole lot of options at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2020 18:37:06 GMT
- Fix and completely rewrite the ending first and foremost to not only save the galaxy, but to have actions of Shepard that can shape and impact the future of the Milky Way. Good or bad depending on the choices players make. Like Fallout: New Vegas. Mmmmm, no. Once you make your choice, you can't go back and ask them to retcon it. If you ascended the galaxy under synthesis, that decision is final. If you thought you could control the Reapers, you have to live with the consequences. Same with destroy or refuse. If the Reapers harvested the entire galaxy because of your actions, it's final. What kind of game would Mass Effect be, if you just made choices with little to no consequences for your character? The final cutscenes of the game were never going to be decided by everything you did in the entire trilogy. It's unrealistic. The choices made in the previous games affect how the third and final one plays out. Mass Effect 3 is unique to you based on your decisions. They weren't going to give you a rehash of everything at the end, because you already saw the results of those choices.
The results of whether you can cure the genophage and get all the salarian, turian, krogan support is determined by your decisions from 1 & 2 and the epilogue is determined by ME3 choices.
The results of whether you can make peace between the quarians and the geth is determined again by your decisions from 1 & 2 and possibly 3 since if you don't save Admiral Koris or do the Geth Server level, then peace isn't possible.
The battle for Earth is decided by your war assets. Such as the sword battle, hammer landing, number of people at the FOB, beam run up until your final decision and outcome of the galaxy upon activating the Crucible.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 16, 2020 20:23:39 GMT
I think the window of opportunity to fix the Mass Effect trilogy is long closed. There’s always the possibility of a flat out remake, but I honestly would put as much hope toward that as I would Chinese takeout restaurants reopening this week. Hopefully, Obsidian Entertainment is willing to make Mass Effect great again if BioWare decides to pass the torch. I like Obsidian as much as the next guy, but I honestly don't believe that they'd be up to the task of creating a proper Mass Effect game. I just don't see them making the evolutionary steps from the combat systems we've had in the past, and to be frank, I feel 99% sure that the protagonist would be goddamn silent, which is definitely something I do not want.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 17, 2020 12:45:07 GMT
Hopefully, Obsidian Entertainment is willing to make Mass Effect great again if BioWare decides to pass the torch. I like Obsidian as much as the next guy, but I honestly don't believe that they'd be up to the task of creating a proper Mass Effect game. I just don't see them making the evolutionary steps from the combat systems we've had in the past, and to be frank, I feel 99% sure that the protagonist would be goddamn silent, which is definitely something I do not want. Yeah, I always find it odd that people seem to think another developer can somehow magically make a Mass Effect game better then BioWare. In the past it was Bethesda and now their continual problematic development is no longer to be looked past so they are no longer an option. CDPR has been mentioned many times, but I think the abandonment of third person camera has left people wondering about their games. Now its Obsidian and any release they have had before Outer Worlds has had significant QA issues (edit: I forgot to mention they are now owned by Microsoft as well), I cannot speak for Outer Worlds for that type of game doesn't interest me anymore, but it seemed to have fallen out any discussion fast like any current BioWare game. Its the same thing like that video was posted a few posts ago. People complain about how the faces look in Andromeda, but if BioWare went down the route of a set protagonist I am pretty sure those people would make an issue out of that. I cannot think of any game that has a really good facial animation that allows the level of customization that players want, its all presets so those developers can make sure they have better facial animations. It just seems they want everything from BioWare, but unwilling to accept that there are trade-offs and other developers make the same trade-offs for their games its just not allowed for BioWare to do so.
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Post by regack on Apr 17, 2020 13:06:51 GMT
Yeah, I always find it odd that people seem to think another developer can somehow magically make a Mass Effect game better then BioWare. In the past it was Bethesda and now their continual problematic development is no longer to be looked past so they are no longer an option. CDPR has been mentioned many times, but I think the abandonment of third person camera has left people wondering about their games. Now its Obsidian and any release they have had before Outer Worlds has had significant QA issues (edit: I forgot to mention they are now owned by Microsoft as well), I cannot speak for Outer Worlds for that type of game doesn't interest me anymore, but it seemed to have fallen out any discussion fast like any current BioWare game. Its the same thing like that video was posted a few posts ago. People complain about how the faces look in Andromeda, but if BioWare went down the route of a set protagonist I am pretty sure those people would make an issue out of that. I cannot think of any game that has a really good facial animation that allows the level of customization that players want, its all presets so those developers can make sure they have better facial animations. It just seems they want everything from BioWare, but unwilling to accept that there are trade-offs and other developers make the same trade-offs for their games its just not allowed for BioWare to do so. I think it depends on what game is being made, and, of course, what each person wants out of a game. Long before Telltale collapsed, I wanted them to take on something in the Mass Effect universe. I mean, I liked Tales from the Borderlands way better than any of the actual Borderlands games... but I also know that the Telltale game could never have been made if Borderlands didn't exist at all. I cite this as an example of opening up the rather rich universe to different types of games to appeal to different players. Would anyone want to play an RTS where you're commanding a reaper army on, for example, Tuchanka? Not every game needs to be AAA, and I don't think it would water down the franchise to open it up to different things. Sorry for my random somewhat off topic injection here, I wasn't really following the conversation, I just responded for no good reason. You can all continue to have reasonable discussion without me now
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 17, 2020 14:24:08 GMT
I think the window of opportunity to fix the Mass Effect trilogy is long closed. There’s always the possibility of a flat out remake, but I honestly would put as much hope toward that as I would Chinese takeout restaurants reopening this week. Hopefully, Obsidian Entertainment is willing to make Mass Effect great again if BioWare decides to pass the torch. After EA chucks their IP licences around for free. Maybe.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 17, 2020 16:38:49 GMT
Yeah, I always find it odd that people seem to think another developer can somehow magically make a Mass Effect game better then BioWare. In the past it was Bethesda and now their continual problematic development is no longer to be looked past so they are no longer an option. CDPR has been mentioned many times, but I think the abandonment of third person camera has left people wondering about their games. Now its Obsidian and any release they have had before Outer Worlds has had significant QA issues (edit: I forgot to mention they are now owned by Microsoft as well), I cannot speak for Outer Worlds for that type of game doesn't interest me anymore, but it seemed to have fallen out any discussion fast like any current BioWare game. Its the same thing like that video was posted a few posts ago. People complain about how the faces look in Andromeda, but if BioWare went down the route of a set protagonist I am pretty sure those people would make an issue out of that. I cannot think of any game that has a really good facial animation that allows the level of customization that players want, its all presets so those developers can make sure they have better facial animations. It just seems they want everything from BioWare, but unwilling to accept that there are trade-offs and other developers make the same trade-offs for their games its just not allowed for BioWare to do so. I think it depends on what game is being made, and, of course, what each person wants out of a game. Long before Telltale collapsed, I wanted them to take on something in the Mass Effect universe. I mean, I liked Tales from the Borderlands way better than any of the actual Borderlands games... but I also know that the Telltale game could never have been made if Borderlands didn't exist at all. I cite this as an example of opening up the rather rich universe to different types of games to appeal to different players. Would anyone want to play an RTS where you're commanding a reaper army on, for example, Tuchanka? Not every game needs to be AAA, and I don't think it would water down the franchise to open it up to different things. Sorry for my random somewhat off topic injection here, I wasn't really following the conversation, I just responded for no good reason. You can all continue to have reasonable discussion without me now Fair points, but I think the difference is also how the statement is presented for context is important. If you want to see the take another developer can do because they have a different voice and their take might be interesting that is one approach. The approach I am commenting more on is when people seem to think another developer can make Mass Effect they way they envision because they made a game they like which doesn't have all the different elements Mass Effect or any other BioWare game does. Obsidian would sacrifice from my experience the voice protagonist and potentially the squad and just have a companion to follow you around, both of those are something I expect from BioWare especially the squad.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 17, 2020 16:39:22 GMT
Hopefully, Obsidian Entertainment is willing to make Mass Effect great again if BioWare decides to pass the torch. After EA chucks their IP licences around for free. Maybe. They have Microsoft money so cost wouldn't be an issue.
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Post by regack on Apr 17, 2020 17:11:20 GMT
I think it depends on what game is being made, and, of course, what each person wants out of a game. Long before Telltale collapsed, I wanted them to take on something in the Mass Effect universe. I mean, I liked Tales from the Borderlands way better than any of the actual Borderlands games... but I also know that the Telltale game could never have been made if Borderlands didn't exist at all. I cite this as an example of opening up the rather rich universe to different types of games to appeal to different players. Would anyone want to play an RTS where you're commanding a reaper army on, for example, Tuchanka? Not every game needs to be AAA, and I don't think it would water down the franchise to open it up to different things. Sorry for my random somewhat off topic injection here, I wasn't really following the conversation, I just responded for no good reason. You can all continue to have reasonable discussion without me now Fair points, but I think the difference is also how the statement is presented for context is important. If you want to see the take another developer can do because they have a different voice and their take might be interesting that is one approach. The approach I am commenting more on is when people seem to think another developer can make Mass Effect they way they envision because they made a game they like which doesn't have all the different elements Mass Effect or any other BioWare game does. Obsidian would sacrifice from my experience the voice protagonist and potentially the squad and just have a companion to follow you around, both of those are something I expect from BioWare especially the squad. No, you're totally right about that. It would probably be completely different, unless it was something where they were contracted to produce something with the same narrative feature set, such as the voiced protag, and squad-of-2+you that all the ME games have had so far. At the same time, putting those constraints on another company with a different vision... that probably won't turn out the way anyone wants. I'm not sure what my point is...
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Apr 17, 2020 18:10:58 GMT
Planet to planet travel was terrible in Andromeda. Replaying ME 1 and 2 I could enter a system and explore all the planets and scan them without needing anything beyond the initial loading screen to reach the system. In Andromeda there is a loading delay between each planet you visit. Even the ones you can't actually land on which makes the space exploration part and reading everything far far more annoying. I actually enjoyed the planet to planet travel, but then the whole space flight aspect was always something I liked. With something like Elite: Dangerous, you get accustomed to the long wait times to get to celestial bodies that are a few Au apart, and I feel gets a good visual representation. ME2 introduced what I felt to be a serious downgrade to the Galaxy Map mechanic. The toy Normandy you move around on the map totally defies the interface type system that ME1 had, and to rub salt in my eyes, introduced a thoroughly pointless fuel management mechanic, which adds absolutely nothing particularly meaningful to the game. The Galaxy Map in ME1 felt like I was looking at an advanced computer system through the eyes of Shepard, like a holographic touch interface that fed me all the info I needed. In ME2, was I now actually playing as Joker or something? It was ridiculous. If this was a flight sim, then those sorts of things are expected and welcome, since you can make meaningful upgrades to your ship to travel wherever you want more effectively, but that's just not how it worked in Mass Effect at all. There's no actual open exploration in space that makes this system work. You just have to get to these planets to maybe find points of interest, which doesn't even really happen here. It's ironic, because ME1 was the only game that offered that, and did it without us having to worry about resource management, which even then kind of half-asses it because moving around the system forever doesn't consume fuel, only when you travel between stars. I also kind of hate that 3 doubled down on this by also adding in the Escape Reapers system where you had to send these ridiculous ping scans in each system and get the lamest Mission Critical Failure if they caught you. Yeah whilst I do find the resource gathering wit hth eprobes quiet relaxin in between missions especially after doing tougher ones I do agree withthe rest of that.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Apr 17, 2020 18:17:50 GMT
Planet to planet travel was terrible in Andromeda. Replaying ME 1 and 2 I could enter a system and explore all the planets and scan them without needing anything beyond the initial loading screen to reach the system. In Andromeda there is a loading delay between each planet you visit. Even the ones you can't actually land on which makes the space exploration part and reading everything far far more annoying. I loved that. It felt like we were actually flying around the star systems. Plus didn't they already fix that with the skip animation button? So DO I flying around Heleus in the Tempest scanning the planets is one of my favourite things to do in MEA
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 19, 2020 23:49:05 GMT
After EA chucks their IP licences around for free. Maybe. They have Microsoft money so cost wouldn't be an issue. It would also come as an Xbox and PC exclusive.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 20, 2020 0:08:09 GMT
They have Microsoft money so cost wouldn't be an issue. It would also come as an Xbox and PC exclusive. *Has a Xbox* That sounds like more of a you problem. Jokes aside, I want Bioware to keep making Mass Effect games. I don't think any other studio could do them justice.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 20, 2020 1:47:55 GMT
It would also come as an Xbox and PC exclusive. *Has a Xbox* That sounds like more of a you problem. Jokes aside, I want Bioware to keep making Mass Effect games. I don't think any other studio could do them justice. *Checks how many PS4's have been sold* Say what now?
Until I see otherwise I do agree about keeping it with BioWare.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 20, 2020 4:38:32 GMT
Hopefully, Obsidian Entertainment is willing to make Mass Effect great again if BioWare decides to pass the torch. After EA chucks their IP licences around for free. Maybe. That's why I said "if".
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 20, 2020 4:43:34 GMT
- Fix and completely rewrite the ending first and foremost to not only save the galaxy, but to have actions of Shepard that can shape and impact the future of the Milky Way. Good or bad depending on the choices players make. Like Fallout: New Vegas. Mmmmm, no. Once you make your choice, you can't go back and ask them to retcon it. If you ascended the galaxy under synthesis, that decision is final. If you thought you could control the Reapers, you have to live with the consequences. Same with destroy or refuse. If the Reapers harvested the entire galaxy because of your actions, it's final. What kind of game would Mass Effect be, if you just made choices with little to no consequences for your character? The final cutscenes of the game were never going to be decided by everything you did in the entire trilogy. It's unrealistic. The choices made in the previous games affect how the third and final one plays out. Mass Effect 3 is unique to you based on your decisions. They weren't going to give you a rehash of everything at the end, because you already saw the results of those choices.
The results of whether you can cure the genophage and get all the salarian, turian, krogan support is determined by your decisions from 1 & 2 and the epilogue is determined by ME3 choices.
The results of whether you can make peace between the quarians and the geth is determined again by your decisions from 1 & 2 and possibly 3 since if you don't save Admiral Koris or do the Geth Server level, then peace isn't possible.
The battle for Earth is decided by your war assets. Such as the sword battle, hammer landing, number of people at the FOB, beam run up until your final decision and outcome of the galaxy upon activating the Crucible.
What I mean by rewrite, I mean scrap the Crucible-Catalyst-Synthesis-Merge crap that BioWare has fed us with. They could come up with a better and much more memorable ending, if they were competent in the first place. That's why I preferred Obsidian Entertainment or one of the writers who wrote New Vegas to design stories, choices, and create an ending where choices and actions actually can affect the ending.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 20, 2020 15:22:14 GMT
It's a hard problem, though. ME1 and ME2 didn't leave a whole lot of options for a rational explanation for Reaper behavior.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Apr 20, 2020 16:22:57 GMT
It's a hard problem, though. ME1 and ME2 didn't leave a whole lot of options for a rational explanation for Reaper behavior. Yeah it was never going to be easy to write an ending that satisied everyone if anything it would have been near impossible.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2020 16:58:47 GMT
What I mean by rewrite, I mean scrap the Crucible-Catalyst-Synthesis-Merge crap that BioWare has fed us with. They could come up with a better and much more memorable ending, if they were competent in the first place. That's why I preferred Obsidian Entertainment or one of the writers who wrote New Vegas to design stories, choices, and create an ending where choices and actions actually can affect the ending. 1. You can't defeat the Reapers without the Crucible. If you think you can, I have a refusal ending to sell you.
2. The Catalyst is not who he says he is. What he believes is pretty much what the Reapers believe. No changing that.
Your choices already had impact and were shown to you throughout the course of the game. This is what Bioware said would happen. They weren't going to give you a rehash of everything at the end, because the choices were already used to resolve things. None of the Mass Effect games had resulted in a unique final scene based on all your choices. ME3 is no different. Like I said, you saw the results of your choices throughout the course of the game. There's no need to provide another resolution when it already happened.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 20, 2020 17:56:07 GMT
I've never understood how the "your choices didn't matter" rhetoric was supposed to work. Everyone knows it isn't actually true.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 20, 2020 20:49:04 GMT
What I mean by rewrite, I mean scrap the Crucible-Catalyst-Synthesis-Merge crap that BioWare has fed us with. They could come up with a better and much more memorable ending, if they were competent in the first place. That's why I preferred Obsidian Entertainment or one of the writers who wrote New Vegas to design stories, choices, and create an ending where choices and actions actually can affect the ending. 1. You can't defeat the Reapers without the Crucible. If you think you can, I have a refusal ending to sell you.
2. The Catalyst is not who he says he is. What he believes is pretty much what the Reapers believe. No changing that.
Your choices already had impact and were shown to you throughout the course of the game. This is what Bioware said would happen. They weren't going to give you a rehash of everything at the end, because the choices were already used to resolve things. None of the Mass Effect games had resulted in a unique final scene based on all your choices. ME3 is no different. Like I said, you saw the results of your choices throughout the course of the game. There's no need to provide another resolution when it already happened. www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/mass-effect-3-creators-address-ending-backlash/2012/03/22/gIQAJS1aTS_story.htmlkotaku.com/mass-effect-3s-ending-disrespects-its-most-invested-pla-5898743Well you get the idea that the ending is one of the most controversial issues of Mass Effect, because it is very poorly written ending. But if you think that the ending is all perfect, that's fine. But that doesn't excuse the poor writing that the writers have created. Also, they have written better endings similar to New Vegas with Origins before, when actions and choices mattered after the victory against the darkspawn in Ferelden.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 20, 2020 21:53:51 GMT
What I mean by rewrite, I mean scrap the Crucible-Catalyst-Synthesis-Merge crap that BioWare has fed us with. They could come up with a better and much more memorable ending, if they were competent in the first place. That's why I preferred Obsidian Entertainment or one of the writers who wrote New Vegas to design stories, choices, and create an ending where choices and actions actually can affect the ending. 1. You can't defeat the Reapers without the Crucible. If you think you can, I have a refusal ending to sell you.
2. The Catalyst is not who he says he is. What he believes is pretty much what the Reapers believe. No changing that.
Your choices already had impact and were shown to you throughout the course of the game. This is what Bioware said would happen. They weren't going to give you a rehash of everything at the end, because the choices were already used to resolve things. None of the Mass Effect games had resulted in a unique final scene based on all your choices. ME3 is no different. Like I said, you saw the results of your choices throughout the course of the game. There's no need to provide another resolution when it already happened. To be fair, the Crucible is only necessary because the writers chose to limit options for success solely on its construction. They could even have made it so destroying the central governing intelligence simply makes them drop dead. Honesty most of the game functions about the same regardless of the Crucible. It’s a trope as old as time at this point, but I can’t say I would have been dissatisfied with that option. It would certainly have greatly benefited the setting by at least removing one major drawback to the continuation of the Milky Way setting aside from the fate of a few species.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 1:03:04 GMT
1. You can't defeat the Reapers without the Crucible. If you think you can, I have a refusal ending to sell you.
2. The Catalyst is not who he says he is. What he believes is pretty much what the Reapers believe. No changing that.
Your choices already had impact and were shown to you throughout the course of the game. This is what Bioware said would happen. They weren't going to give you a rehash of everything at the end, because the choices were already used to resolve things. None of the Mass Effect games had resulted in a unique final scene based on all your choices. ME3 is no different. Like I said, you saw the results of your choices throughout the course of the game. There's no need to provide another resolution when it already happened. To be fair, the Crucible is only necessary because the writers chose to limit options for success solely on its construction. They could even have made it so destroying the central governing intelligence simply makes them drop dead. Honesty most of the game functions about the same regardless of the Crucible. It’s a trope as old as time at this point, but I can’t say I would have been dissatisfied with that option. It would certainly have greatly benefited the setting by at least removing one major drawback to the continuation of the Milky Way setting aside from the fate of a few species. Even so, it was said, the Crucible by itself is not sufficiently powerful enough to defeat the Reapers. However, when combined with the Citadel and the mass relays can you bring an end to the Reapers. So simply building the Crucible and hooking it up to the Citadel won't defeat them. Like the Illusive Man kind of hinted at in ME2 and was repeated again in ME3, you use the Reapers own resources against them to defeat them.
I do remember Bioware saying you weren't going to just find some "Reaper off" button. The Crucible doesn't just disable the Reapers or make them go limp so you can defeat them conventionally, it has multiple functions. Some of those functions were programmed into it by beings who were working for the Reapers. Hell, the Reapers themselves know about the Crucible, they know what it can do. That's why they're coming to destroy it at the end, while the Shield Fleet tries to protect it.
Whoever thought that life was going to go on like nothing happened was not paying attention to things. The original ending hinted at a galactic dark age. Essentially a galaxy without the Citadel or mass relays. Like a galactic reset for everything. Even the concept art hinted at this, it wasn't just in the writing. However, people seem to think they've done all this hard work, that the game should pat them on the back and reward them with an intact galaxy and a couple lives lost. ME3's Reaper War was meant to be brutal. Not some stupid Hollywood thing where the good guys always win and everyone parties afterwords. Bioware hit us with that too (in that video I posted).
The galaxy was forever changed due to the events of the Crucible. You now have to deal with control of the Reapers, and everyone in the galaxy now being ascended by the Reapers, plus there's destroy. However, most of the impact of that was shown in the Extended Cut, which was an epilogue to close off the story for good. Not to reopen it again later, because "I want Shepard back. I miss Garrus, what's going on with Conrad Verner" blah blah blah...
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 21, 2020 1:40:52 GMT
1. You can't defeat the Reapers without the Crucible. If you think you can, I have a refusal ending to sell you.
2. The Catalyst is not who he says he is. What he believes is pretty much what the Reapers believe. No changing that.
Your choices already had impact and were shown to you throughout the course of the game. This is what Bioware said would happen. They weren't going to give you a rehash of everything at the end, because the choices were already used to resolve things. None of the Mass Effect games had resulted in a unique final scene based on all your choices. ME3 is no different. Like I said, you saw the results of your choices throughout the course of the game. There's no need to provide another resolution when it already happened. www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/mass-effect-3-creators-address-ending-backlash/2012/03/22/gIQAJS1aTS_story.htmlkotaku.com/mass-effect-3s-ending-disrespects-its-most-invested-pla-5898743Well you get the idea that the ending is one of the most controversial issues of Mass Effect, because it is very poorly written end ing. But if you think that the ending is all perfect, that's fine. But that doesn't excuse the poor writing that the writers have created. Also, they have written better endings similar to New Vegas with Origins before, when actions and choices mattered after the victory against the darkspawn in Ferelden. While the ending wasn't written perfectly it has been my opinion for a while that people simply didn't pay attention to certain things BioWare was trying to hint at and missing or not putting as much emphasis on circumstances of events. Short example is Rannoch. Quarians find a way to fight back against the Geth and ride in fully intent on genocide of the Geth race. The Geth reach out to the Reapers for sheer survial and the Reapers upgrade the Geth to full AI status. Which allows them to not only stop but fully route and put the Quarians so far on the back foot they try to flee but are blocked from accessing the Relay. Shepard only shows up to help the Quarians get away not realizing Reapers are supporting them and controlling them. It is only when Shepard finds out about the Reapers that he agrees to help Legion simply because the Reapers having full control of the Geth would be a massive weapon in their hands.
Across the entire events Legion's entire pitch is help us Geth and we will help fight back against the Reapers. While the Quarian's entire pitch is help us defeat the Geth and retake our home planet so we can help you fight the Reapers.
And at the end you have to follow a very specific series of events to allow it to happen in the first place. But in the second place peace can only be created if and only if you allow the upgrade to go though. If you stop the upgrade then the Quarians wipe out the Geth regardless of anything else. Literally the threat of complete genocide is the only thing that gets the Quarians to back down. And even then that threat isn't enough unless you followed very specific steps resulting in so much loss of Quarian life they are for all intents and purposes an extinct race and Tali literally kills her self over it.
If the Catalyst was so wrong about the conflict between synthetics and organics as people often use Rannoch to prove then the Geth wouldn't have spent several hundred years literally killing and attacking all non Geth that wondered into their territory. The Quarians would not have embarked on a crusade of complete genocide of the Geth that wouldn't look out of place in the Warhammer 40k universe. And the Quarians should have still been willing to back down even if the Geth were in the weaker position by not allowing the upgrade to happen. But the Geth did violently attack anyone and anything that wasn't Geth that entered their space while remaining radio silent to all other races. The Quarians did charge into their Geth territory intending to wipe out as many Geth as they could and reprogram into mindless VI servants any remaining Geth. And the Quarians will only back down if the Geth have the upper hands and their very lives are at risk.
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