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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 6, 2021 3:46:36 GMT
A reminder - this is not the Politics thread, nor will it be.
Some times the 'venting' part of this threads purpose will lend itself to posts that touch on politics in some way, but we won't be having an in depth discussion on the varying degrees of competence of current or former leaders.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 12, 2021 13:22:48 GMT
My coworker came in sick yesterday (thank you, idiot) and has now tested positive. Me and three others sitting closest to him were sent home today and will work the rest of the week from home. If they get the project green lit for home office, that is. If not, I guess I'll have a week paid "vacation".
So if I don't get infected that's a pretty good deal actually.
Coworker was vaccinated btw. Astra or JJ, I believe. So he had a 50/50 Chance getting delta anyway, I guess.
I hope my Pfizer shot does a better job...
Kinda sucks that I have to wear a mask around my mom for two weeks now. Spooked her when I told her.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 12, 2021 20:23:54 GMT
My coworker came in sick yesterday (thank you, idiot) and has now tested positive. Me and three others sitting closest to him were sent home today and will work the rest of the week from home. If they get the project green lit for home office, that is. If not, I guess I'll have a week paid "vacation". So if I don't get infected that's a pretty good deal actually. Coworker was vaccinated btw. Astra or JJ, I believe. So he had a 50/50 Chance getting delta anyway, I guess. I hope my Pfizer shot does a better job... Kinda sucks that I have to wear a mask around my mom for two weeks now. Spooked her when I told her. Our son and I are both getting our 2nd Pfizer shot tonight. Regarding Pfizer and it's efficacy against Delta; Pfizer is the only vaccine available to New Zealanders so. The numbers are a little misleading as the current outbreak is moving through two social communities at the moment, where lower vaccination rates exist, but it points to pretty strong results from your vaccine.
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Post by dragontartare on Oct 12, 2021 20:31:21 GMT
Those are promising numbers, I think. People expect vaccines to be 100% effective, when no vaccine (and no medicine, really) could ever be, since all vaccines do is train your own immune system. I wish leaders had make more of an effort, or any effort at all, to educate people on that when all of this started.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 12, 2021 20:39:21 GMT
Those are promising numbers, I think. People expect vaccines to be 100% effective, when no vaccine (and no medicine, really) could ever be, since all vaccines do is train your own immune system. I wish leaders had make more of an effort, or any effort at all, to educate people on that when all of this started. The numbers are a bit misleading in both directions, though - weirdly. In one, the (partially or fully) vaxxed are very low percentages - in part - because the social groups the outbreak is moving through have lower rates of vaccination than the general population. In the other, the numbers they don't give officially, but have given anecdotally are the non-hospital vaxxed cases that are actually asymptomatic. They still have to be quarantined, but they're not actually sick. The unvaccinated who're cases - hospital or not - are apparently really feeling it.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Oct 12, 2021 23:19:30 GMT
Those are promising numbers, I think. People expect vaccines to be 100% effective, when no vaccine (and no medicine, really) could ever be, since all vaccines do is train your own immune system. I wish leaders had make more of an effort, or any effort at all, to educate people on that when all of this started. Problem is numbers of this magnitude are often misunderstood. Say the vaccine prevents serious complications from a covid infection to 98%. Everybody will agree that this is bloody good for any vaccine, but if you vaccinate 1000000 people and 2% do develop serious symptoms from a Covid infection that's 20000 people that need hospitalization. That's a lot of sick people and then everyone says the vaccine doesn't work and its all a conspiracy. Its like having heavy infantry in full plate armor getting pelted by arrows. From 100 soldiers one gets hit through the eyeslit and dies, the other get hits in the armpit area and is severely injured as well. Would you then ditch your armor because you'd think its useless and be angry at your general because he told you wearing armor is a good idea? Problem is, many other very common vaccines also do not get any better than 98% and nobody seems to care.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 13, 2021 7:14:59 GMT
Great. Our company has reviewed the situation and by the current guidelines none of us were close contacts. Because we sat 1,5m apart and aerosols still don't exist in Germany's risk assessment. Breathing the same air for 8h is fiiiiine because distancing indoors is so very effective.
So looks like we might have to return to work tomorrow...
What's even more bizarre is that the guy's wife had to work today because he's still waiting on the official test result. Two positive quick tests and coughing is not enough. Those could be false positive.
Unbelievable. No wonder Germany can't get a handle on this virus...
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Post by dragontartare on Oct 13, 2021 16:49:52 GMT
Great. Our company has reviewed the situation and by the current guidelines none of us were close contacts. Because we sat 1,5m apart and aerosols still don't exist in Germany's risk assessment. Breathing the same air for 8h is fiiiiine because distancing indoors is so very effective. So looks like we might have to return to work tomorrow... What's even more bizarre is that the guy's wife had to work today because he's still waiting on the official test result. Two positive quick tests and coughing is not enough. Those could be false positive. Unbelievable. No wonder Germany can't get a handle on this virus... Similar thing happened when I caught covid, pre-vaccine. Social distancing wasn't possible at work, so it wasn't even considered when evaluating possible exposures. You had to be unmasked together for an extended period of time to count as being exposed, so someone pulling down their mask to cough or sneeze occasionally didn't count.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 13, 2021 18:23:46 GMT
Similar thing happened when I caught covid, pre-vaccine. Social distancing wasn't possible at work, so it wasn't even considered when evaluating possible exposures. You had to be unmasked together for an extended period of time to count as being exposed, so someone pulling down their mask to cough or sneeze occasionally didn't count. I get to continue working from home tomorrow. The test result is not in yet. I hope they'll decide to keep us at home for the rest of the week in any case. Our laughable rules are mask on when moving around but at one's desk nobody wears the mask. So that's a ton of aerosols. It's ridiculous. Granted, the last time a coworker was infected he didn't spread is. I still don't think it's a safe environment. There have been various studies showing how far aerosols travel indoors. They simply don't want to keep us as safe as they could because business first. The sick coworker is having a rough time. Apparently his immune system is not the best, I was told. Who knows how dangerous this virus would be without the vaccine. I hope he doesn't need to be hospitalized.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 13, 2021 19:47:18 GMT
2nd jab done. This one hurt quite a bit more, but because a muscle in my arm twitched just as the needle went in.
No headaches or other side-effects as yet, though - about 15 hours later - so that's a good sign. My wife had her second quite some time ago and she felt like she'd been on a week long hike; exhausted, sore just everywhere. It passed quickly, but still wasn't fun for her.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 18, 2021 10:09:31 GMT
And we've been confirmed for two more weeks of lockdown. Minimum. /sarcasm Apparently, though, we're supposed to find out the criteria and plan for exiting lockdown this Friday, so that'll be something to have a lot of drinks watching.
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Stolen by inquisition forces.
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Oct 25, 2021 16:17:58 GMT
Alrighty, i got an update:
I manifested symptoms last tuesday, took a PCR in thursday, and tested positive the next day. Got quarentined until the 23th and now i'm out and fresh as a lettuce. I'm not quite sure where i got it (most probably in some food i ate outside), but regardless, it was the lightest flu i have ever got (got a tiny bit of fever and sneeze/cough), i thank the jabs for that. Now i got supreme inmunity, a car could hit me and i'll come unscatted from it (that's how it work, right?)!
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 25, 2021 19:46:19 GMT
Alrighty, i got an update: I manifested symptoms last tuesday, took a PCR in thursday, and tested positive the next day. Got quarentined until the 23th and now i'm out and fresh as a lettuce. I'm not quite sure where i got it (most probably in some food i ate outside), but regardless, it was the lightest flu i have ever got (got a tiny bit of fever and sneeze/cough), i thank the jabs for that. Now i got supreme inmunity, a car could hit me and i'll come unscatted from it (that's how it work, right?)! The like is for the fact that you recovered and the symptoms were light! But for the rest, I think you'll find cars bounce off you. And electric cars will avoid you entirely due to the high level of 5G cellular broadcast. Even cars that you want to drive or be driven in. Seriously, though - glad you're well and that you came out of it unscathed.
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Post by Syv on Nov 12, 2021 22:10:42 GMT
Austria to impose national lockdown for only those who are unvaccinated. Can't wait to see how they are going to handle that lol. That seems terrible. Didn't know there could be worse than France that some europeans countries are starting to follow with a mandatory sanitary pass.
Netherlands to impose new lockdown and restrictions for three weeks affecting all people - vaccinated or not - effective from tomorrow night. Around 85% of the adult dutch population have been fully vaccinated against covid19. Cases rose yesterday in the Netherlands to a record high of more than 16 000 cases. It's like they went back to march 2020 when we first discovered that virus, without any solution. That new lockdown from the Netherland is a very bad signal, it's like they are stating they do not trust the vaccine anymore, they come back to rudimentary and desperate means when there is no other solution to hope for. A lot of people will ask themself " why did we get vaccinated if it is again to wear a mask, to respect social distances, to be confined at home for weeks. "
Germany has broken a new record a few days ago, more than 50 000 new cases with 70% of people overly vaccinated, while its previous record was in december 2020, approximatively 30 000 cases. And back at that time in winter there was 0% of vaccinated among the population. That variant delta is a fucking bitch, this is far from over. Where are we going ? Latvia bans lawmakers who refuse the COVID19 vaccine from voting on legislature and participating in parliamentary discussions. I feels like europeans countries are starting to panick. ( China is even starting to threat of death sentence for those who refuse to get vaccinated. What I've seen with Australia was also very concerning, ugh) France is threatened by a "fifth wave " too as well , with 74% of frenchs overly vaccinated. 88,9% of adults vaccinated, reamining 6 millions of folks not at all vaccinated. At least the media, and the government have stopped with that dumb repetitive argument " it's because of the unvaccinated folks that nothing changes " or " if more people were vaccinated, it wouldn't happen". It's obvious that the delta variant is more resistant and agressive than expected. A lot of vaccinated folks in hospitals too. Whether we have 100% of vaccinated folks or not, there won't be any immunity, that's a dream that will never happen, especially when the third world has barely any vaccine for their population. Now the third jab in France will become mandatory for those who are more than 65 years old. They have until 15 december. Otherwise their sanitary pass will be no more valid. How many jabs for the sanitary pass to remain valid ? How many times we'll have to keep that crap to live normally ? This sanitary pass was supposed to be temporary for two months. It keeps going. Yep, french citizens may have made a deal with the devil. Never deal your own freedom for some feelings of safety. No matter what. Never. I knew the french government was lying, telling us, that it would be temporary and it would stop in november. The majority of Macron voted again, and now this discriminatory sanitary pass is until july 2022. They will keep playing this game until they are tired of it. Maybe this sanitary pass will remain forever, being the new social card like there is in China, linked to the communist party.
What is important, it's that the sanitary pass has no utility for public health policy. It has only one role, political, to force unvaccinated people to get vaccinated. Macron said it openly in his statement of July 12, 2021: " We will do everything to make life unbearable for those who refuse to be vaccinated. " That hard line worked though, most obeyed even against their will, even if it radicalized a small part of hardened frenchs who will never accept the vaccine. I'm laughing at that new mandatory third dose for old folks from the government that worked again, all the others under 65 are next in a few months. No third jab, no more rights. Modern men and women are so weak. They are just useful enough to consume products, they do not think anymore by themself, they don't have anymore values. They listen all the propaganda from their government without ever reflect on them. Under the threat they obey. Anyway you just have to remove their possibility to take a coffee, to go to the cinema, restaurants, and they'll do whatever the hell the government wants, regardless of their will, if they want to get vaccinated or not. ( again or not too) You don't need to send them to prison, to threat their life, just remove their social life and they'll wisely obey, like sheeps. Fucking sheeps and guinea pigs. Very sad time. I keep being disappointed by humanity. That crisis has just showed me how actually vulnerable our societies and democraties are, we could in fact very easily fall into authoritarian regimes and we would applause greatly, we are not much better than China.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Nov 13, 2021 0:23:04 GMT
Austria to impose national lockdown for only those who are unvaccinated. Can't wait to see how they are going to handle that lol. Like we handled all the previous lockdowns. Our lockdowns have been, and are considerably less harsh than most other countries lockdowns (Australia or NZ for example). People in lockdown can still go out and do sports, travel around freely, visit their family and go to work. Effectively, they cannot go clubbing, go to restaurants, stores -other than essentials- and they cannot visit festivals. (of which most are cancelled now anyway) As for the vaccines not working, my local hospital released some data saying that 7 of 10 patients suffering from covid and which are being taken care of in the hospital are non-vaccinated, the other 3 all have severe health conditions and are mostly immune-suppressed because they either have chronic inflammatory diseases and have to take TNF-α-inhibitors or have donor organs. They were vaccinated but didn't build a very high immunity due to their artificially weakened immune system, and especially people taking TNF-α-inhibitors are generally severely susceptible to diseases involving the respiratory system. Its a known issue. A friend of mine takes that medication and she had to strop taking it for the vaccines to work even a little - and she went through hell.- She has been basically in constant isolation for the last 2 years because a covid infection could kill her. Of course you can doubt the numbers the hospital released, but you can doubt any number if you want. I have no way to check if those numbers are correct. Do those measures suck? Yeah you bet they do, I want my normal life back goddammit, and I'm seriously against laws making vaccines mandatory. Problem is health care personnel is already on a strike here asking for better working conditions and a solution for the imminent collapse of the hospitals. Triage is already a thing here, important surgeries have been cancelled and were pushed back to much later dates seriously decreasing the survival rate of many patients. I disagree with many of the measures taken to combat this pandemic and I dislike how the general situation develops, but sitting back and doing nothing will kill the healthcare system and many people along with it. We have reached a point where no matter what you do, its wrong and a lot of people will be unhappy. So what's your solution? (Also, I want to mention here that I'm speaking of the current situation here where I life, I cannot speak for other people and countries. )
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Post by Syv on Nov 13, 2021 17:28:13 GMT
Austria to impose national lockdown for only those who are unvaccinated. Can't wait to see how they are going to handle that lol. 1. Like we handled all the previous lockdowns. Our lockdowns have been, and are considerably less harsh than most other countries lockdowns (Australia or NZ for example). People in lockdown can still go out and do sports, travel around freely, visit their family and go to work. Effectively, they cannot go clubbing, go to restaurants, stores -other than essentials- and they cannot visit festivals. (of which most are cancelled now anyway) 2. I disagree with many of the measures taken to combat this pandemic and I dislike how the general situation develops, but sitting back and doing nothing will kill the healthcare system and many people along with it. We have reached a point where no matter what you do, its wrong and a lot of people will be unhappy. So what's your solution? (Also, I want to mention here that I'm speaking of the current situation here where I life, I cannot speak for other people and countries. ) 1. Well it's your country, and you know better than me what is going on over there. The french media only talked about national lockdown being very severe against unvaccinated folks in Austria, the way they portrayed it, it seemed worse than what you are talking about. I watched again, they never mention these details. In my opinion they might have portrayed what is happening in Austria that hard way to show to the frenchs what could happen if they refuse to take the third jab or get vaccinated. The media are all screaming in alarm, like they keep doing for months now. The message being, " we could go back to lockdowns too. " They also said there were more and more double vaccinated with severe cases in my own country, as a way to encourage the french government to already open the third dose for those under 65 years old while it's not yet the case. 2. It's not easy I know, but every single lockdown has consequences. We can't keep going like that every few months. That's just not a healthy, effective and coherent health policy. From the moment vaccinated folks can contaminate, can be contaminated, and can contaminate each other, it seems weird to focus only on the unvaccinated and prevent them from going where they want from a scientific point of view. If the situation in the country was really threatening, they would do it for everyone like in the Netherlands. The vaccinated being part of those in hospitals is not a fantasy. That doesn't make any sense. Your leader seen on french tv has talked, he clearly stated that the rate of vaccination was unacceptable, we can understand that yes, it's less about hospitals being in a critical state and more about the low rate of vaccination that concerns them, and he wants to do something about it. The solution would be for the non-vaccinated to be able to reach these places forbidden to them as long as they have a negative test. What is the difference between someone who has a negative test, and someone who is vaccinated in a restaurant ? Nothing. It's just that your government is simply following its ideology of 100% immunity, is angry about the low rate of vaccination, doesn't want to give that possibility. That lockdown is certainly more political than scientific. There is no scientific utility in confining only the unvaccinated other than to force them to get vaccinated, as an ideology. This reduction in covid transmission is of little relevance. If you have a 12-fold reduction in transmission thanks to the vaccine, but the Delta Variant increases transmission 1600-fold compared to the first virus, then your 12-fold reduction thanks to the vaccine is ridiculous. I just can't understand that argument. The thing is the delta variant is way more powerful in this area, and the more there will be vaccinated folks, the more there will be vaccinated fulfilling hospitals, like it happened in Israel. That's all what has to be taken into account. Yes in Israel in august, More than 40% of vaccinated in hospitals while being top level of high rate of vaccination back at that time, hence why they were the first country to make mandatory the sanitary pass for a third jab, before France. Great Britain had also some interesting data about the rate of vaccinated folks in hospitals. Hence why I do not believe at all that a lockdown on only unvaccinated folks would come under public health policy. ______ National lockdowns on the previous models in 2020 at least are no solutions in my opinion anyways. Not anymore, we have to live with the covid and adapt without falling into craziness. It kills our economy, it deteriorates the mental state of folks, it endangers our way of life. The consequences from the two previous lockdowns in France is catastrophic. Yes it was probably necessary back at that time, saved a lot of people from Covid, stabilized the country. But at what cost. A lot of other folks were killed because of cancer and other sickness not cured during that time, they would have been alive without that absolute focus on covid in our hospitals, ton of companies definitely closed, and our economy suffered so much that our children and great children will have to carry that burden on their shoulders. Lockdowns hurt society, they isolate more and more sections of the population. Violence against women has exploded since the first lockdown. Suicides and youth violence have also exploded, people's mental health has deteriorated, violence in society is increasing. Confidence in the government's word is waning despite polls of support. 43% of frenchs in a poll agreed with defining France as a dictatorship. This is just ridiculous. I'm not certain it is worth the cost again. I believe that the vaccine gives some protection, but it does not reduce that much the delta variant that has a transmission x 1600 compared to the first virus appeared in march. My solution is not to react with ideology, but with pragmatism, based on scienfitics facts and nothing else. There are a some lies and irrational fear, doctors are fired as soon as they deviate from the official version of the government, it does not reassure about transparency in my country. There is a new report which appeared yesterday, and which is causing little noise in France. The government seems to have lied about the threat posed by covid19 to our hospitals, which were far less crowded than doctors and the government claimed on television. Result: patients admitted due to Covid-19 represented only 2% of hospital attendance and 5% of intensive care. Figures that seem surprisingly low in proportion to the french government claims that we have known for more than a year and a half. The goal being of course to put fear into the heart of people, so that they get vaccinated and support their government using more and more power and restricting more and more their freedoms as they wish. When my government keeps lying about a lot of things with the help of media, I cannot help but wonder what is going on in my fucking country. Let's hope that we'll come back to reason and rationality very soon. Thanks god we have elections in a few months, that's probably what saved french citizens from more freedom removed.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Nov 18, 2021 0:23:03 GMT
Just watched the news, apparently most of the health care personnel in my country is protesting because the intensive care units are clogged up with covid cases and now doctors have to decide whom they treat and whom they basically turn back home. So, triage. They said they are already turning down many patients in critical condition simply because they don't have the capacity to treat them, well aware of the fact that they will probably die. In the news article the doctors and nurses said they cannot bear the burden of deciding the fate of patients like this and they are absolutely furious about the government always doing too little too late.
They also mentioned that, unexpectedly, most of patients now need immediate help with breathing via respirators, it seems the virus has become more aggressive somehow. There is also a lot of people in serious condition who are vaccinated twice, but those either already suffer from other health conditions or were among the first to get vaccinated but haven't gotten a booster.
If this is mostly true we're in trouble for real.
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Post by rewindbutton on Nov 18, 2021 12:20:26 GMT
If this is mostly true we're in trouble for real. Remember when I said we're not in too deep yet? Well, we are wading into the territory where the short and curlies start to get wet. To keep it short, here's what wrong atm: 1. too many unvaccinated get the bug (this is the main reason, more cases means even more new cases) 2. the vaccines are beginning to wane (this was always going to happen) 3. children and elderly people are getting sick (children are mostly unvaccinated, the elderly are immunocompromised) All these combined means, that hospitals are getting clogged.
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 18, 2021 14:24:30 GMT
Things have gone to shit im Germany too. ICUs are full. There are reports of ambulances driving stroke victims around for 2-3h looking for a bed...
Meanwhile unvaccinated idiots get poisoning from taking horse anthelmintic, this is unreal!
Everybody with half a brain knew we were heading towards a massive wave of unvaccinated cases mixed with more and more breakthrough infections due to waning vaccines.
What did the government do? Close most of the vaccination centers. Declared the end of the emergency state.
Also, you cannot get a booster earlier than six months later despite studies showing that the effect starts dropping off significantly after 4 months already. But that's bureaucracy for ya. Turning people away who want a booster in favor of just not giving the vaccine to anyone. Gotta follow the rules!
Fucking satire!
Can't make this shit up...
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Nov 18, 2021 14:41:41 GMT
Also, you cannot get a booster earlier than six months later despite studies showing that the effect starts dropping off significantly after 4 months already. But that's bureaucracy for ya. Turning people away who want a booster in favor of just not giving the vaccine to anyone. Gotta follow the rules! Fucking satire! Can't make this shit up... It probably depends on the vaccines - I got my second Pfizer shot in June - now I did an antibody test just to see if I still carry enough antibodies in my blood to deal with a potential infection. Fortunately the concentration of antibodies is still very high so I'm good for a couple more months. A friend of mine got the same result. I've heard though that people vaccinated with Zeneca lose antibodies very quickly - and the first people who got vaccinated mostly got ACN so that probably explains why a lot of vaccinated people seem to get infected now. I can really recommend doing one of those tests - they also show if you had an infection with covid. They do cost a couple bucks but hey, its worth it.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 18, 2021 16:22:22 GMT
My mom asked our family doc about her booster. They're booked up until February. Great stuff.
If you want a shot at a vaccination center people wait in line for four hours. And I assume they only take 70+ and six months right now. Which given the lack of manpower makes sense.
Now we apparently have enough vaccine but the infrastructure sucks. Because we dismantled it.
High comedy.
Edit: Scratch waiting in line. They switched back to appointments today. And the only still open place in the area is booked up until end of January. And you can't even get ANY appointment anymore within hours because the calendar doesn't extend further. Omg, how sad is all this?!
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Post by Syv on Nov 18, 2021 23:25:42 GMT
If this is mostly true we're in trouble for real. Remember when I said we're not in too deep yet? Well, we are wading into the territory where the short and curlies start to get wet. To keep it short, here's what wrong atm: 1. too many unvaccinated get the bug (this is the main reason, more cases means even more new cases)2. the vaccines are beginning to wane (this was always going to happen) 3. children and elderly people are getting sick (children are mostly unvaccinated, the elderly are immunocompromised) All these combined means, that hospitals are getting clogged. What do you think of Gibraltar's case ? The most vaccinated part of the world. www.newsweek.com/christmas-celebration-gibraltar-vaccine-coronavirus-cases-1650610 More than 99% of its people fully vaccinated. Record of cases like it never happened before, fullfilling hospitals. They are going to cancel Noel and might think of new restrictions. I can't wait for the countries to have less and less non-vaccinated folks, that will be funny to watch all the reactions. I bet that the stupid argument " everything is because of all the unvaccinated idiots " will keep going in spite of that.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Nov 19, 2021 0:24:19 GMT
More than 99% of its people fully vaccinated. www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/11/coronavirus-gibraltar-cancels-christmas-events-after-exponential-rise-in-covid-cases-linked-to-waning-immunity.htmlIn March. More than 6 months ago. So rewindbuttons 2nd point about waning efficacy applies. Added to that - you're French, right? - France currently has a population density of 119 p/sq km. Gibraltar...3369 p/sq km. They live on top of each other. Those two things combined are explanation enough when you consider travel in and out of neighbouring countries as well. I bet that the stupid argument " everything is because of all the unvaccinated idiots " will keep going in spite of that. Probably...because it will still be true. An outlier is not a trend. And Googling something or sharing an article on Facebook or Twitter is not research.
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Post by Syv on Nov 19, 2021 1:53:54 GMT
More than 99% of its people fully vaccinated. www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/11/coronavirus-gibraltar-cancels-christmas-events-after-exponential-rise-in-covid-cases-linked-to-waning-immunity.html1. In March. More than 6 months ago. So rewindbuttons 2nd point about waning efficacy applies. Added to that - you're French, right? - France currently has a population density of 119 p/sq km. Gibraltar...3369 p/sq km. They live on top of each other. Those two things combined are explanation enough when you consider travel in and out of neighbouring countries as well. I bet that the stupid argument " everything is because of all the unvaccinated idiots " will keep going in spite of that. 3. Probably...because it will still be true. 2. An outlier is not a trend. And Googling something or sharing an article on Facebook or Twitter is not research. 1. Your link isn't available to me because of where I live. But I see what you mean. He stated that the number of cases was mostly because of the unvaccinated that got too many bugs. There are no more in this country. It is rather mostly because of people fully vaccinated ( meaning two jabs ) that get too many bugs now. The fact that the effectiveness of the vaccine drops severely for a lot doesn't really change anything to what I said, it' s another thing. People did get vaccinated as demanded. The whole argument behind : we can't go back to normal mostly because of unvaccinated ( zero jab and no matter how few they could be ) doesn't seem really true anymore in this case . There is a need of another process as well. Is this the new spirit, the new scapegoats will be those who refuse a third dose, then the fourth, then the fifth ? They will be considered as unvaccinated, no more sanitary pass ? They will be the next confined and discriminated ? The density, whatever the factor is, the fact is 99% of the country has been fully vaccinated, the immunity was promised once reached, there is no immunity, that's an irrational dream. Today the number of cases is record with only folks vaccinated, you keep having people fullfiling hospitals, to have number of deaths, to the point that Noel might being cancelled. Does that seem good ? Nope. New restrictions to come. Maybe we need to reach 110 or 120% of immunity lol. 2. I don't understand what you mean. Why are you telling me that ? That I have to post necessarily a research or are you telling me that I found this on twitter ? There are ton of mainsteam articles about that, especially in my french journal. I didn't need at all to do some researchs. It was mentioned on TV too, there was a debate around that situation over there by scientifics around the table with a journalist. I posted that english article, so that people can understand what I was talking about. Next time I'll do without it, and people we'll have then to look by themself if that's what you prefer. Also are you saying that we should ignore what is going on in some places for an overall point of view ? Let's put aside anything that doesn't confirm what we think ? It's the first country to reach that high level of vaccination, that seems quite dangerous as a way of thinking, if we want to understand better that virus at least. It's simple pragmatism. There are not many countries that reached that figure. But you are right, it is not yet a trend, let's wait. I thought it was worth looking at. 3 You didn't need to fix my sentence, I mean it. Not necessarily ? What makes you so sure ? Are you a scientific ? have you a crystal ball ? You have a case with Gibraltar where it is not true anymore but you keep going. Unless you are ready to consider that people who stop once taking that dose every single time it is demanded are simply unvaccinated idiots. That would be rather radical and disturbing. A lot of things proclaimed since 2020 at the beginning of the crisis were false and were admitted only months after, a lot of mistakes,, and like stated a lot of doctors when they had to justify themself, nobody knows the virus. We learn everyday. And it's true.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Nov 19, 2021 3:00:35 GMT
2 & 3 are actually linked. The most common refrain from those who're anti-vax is "I've done my research and *insert conspiratorial nonsense here*". They haven't. They never have. And those who claim they have are just insulting actual researchers. None of that was a comment at you - specifically - but at those who refuse the vaccine for spurious reasons.
We have some here in my country who say, "I'm not anti-vax, I'm just anti this Pfizer vaccine". They never, ever provide actually truthful evidence about what specifically they find objectionable about Pfizer. Because there isn't anything. They just know that it is currently the only vaccine available in New Zealand. Others say, "I'm not anti-vax, I just don't like being told what to do", which means they have the mental and emotional maturity of a 12 year old. So my tolerance for those people - such as it was to begin with - is absolute zero, now.
Oh - and immunity was never promised, at least, not where I am. Greater protection was, though. And that is what vaccination gives.
With regards to the rest of your post, I don't require you to do your own research, no. In fact, I actively discourage it. Unless you are a fully trained, professional researcher (whether doctor, scientist or assistant thereof) in the field of vaccines or virology, doing "your own research" will inevitably mean Googling stuff. And as I said, that's not research.
*moderator stuff* Post articles if you want, just make sure you've read the Proboards announcement linked in the OP of this thread. Misinformation such as "vaccines cause impotence", "it's just a cold" or "vaccines do not provide extra protection", will lead to one of two thing; Proboards shutting us down, or you getting banned. But really, this thread is about supporting each other and - sometimes...usually, actually - venting, not arguing scientific points. *end moderator stuff*
This has been a totally shit time and everyone has a limit to how much they can take before they have to scream at the clouds (or someone else). In my city, we're at 93 days lockdown and counting. We have nearly a full month to go before the border placed around our city is removed. It sucks. And everyone has had enough, and everyone is angry, even those who support the measures. Nationally, we're at 89% fully vaccinated, but our most vulnerable began getting vaccinated in March, so soon - even though we're about to open up - we may be facing a similar issue to Gibraltar. Thankfully, boosters will be available in a couple of weeks.
The key is to not dive down the rabbit hole, because too many people will try to promote cherry-picked data about blood clots or myocarditis or some other vanishingly rare side effect.
If any of that was true to even a moderate extent, it would be impossible to hide. It would be impossible to doubt. Billions of vaccine doses have been administered worldwide. We'd have body bags lining the streets in every major city of the world. And maybe some cities still do. But they're unvaccinated people who've died from Covid, not the vaccines.
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