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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 22, 2020 9:00:11 GMT
I don’t think Frostbite is all that bad in the end. Even Andromeda has sequences that show that it can get good results with a little effort put in. Personally, my beef is more with some creative decisions regarding certain assets, particularly those around customization. Dragon Age: Inquisition’s bad batch of hair options says nothing about the engine. They could have put together more satisfying hairstyles that fit within the same technical constraints as what we got.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 22, 2020 9:46:55 GMT
I don’t think Frostbite is all that bad in the end. Even Andromeda has sequences that show that it can get good results with a little effort put in. Personally, my beef is more with some creative decisions regarding certain assets, particularly those around customization. Dragon Age: Inquisition’s bad batch of hair options says nothing about the engine. They could have put together more satisfying hairstyles that fit within the same technical constraints as what we got. If it isn't, then why did the devs complain about the engine that they're using?
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 22, 2020 10:18:11 GMT
I don’t think Frostbite is all that bad in the end. Even Andromeda has sequences that show that it can get good results with a little effort put in. Personally, my beef is more with some creative decisions regarding certain assets, particularly those around customization. Dragon Age: Inquisition’s bad batch of hair options says nothing about the engine. They could have put together more satisfying hairstyles that fit within the same technical constraints as what we got. If it isn't, then why did the devs complain about the engine that they're using? Put enough people in a room together and you will never have a complete agreement on anything. Just because there have been reports of people not liking the game engine or using it doesn't mean that everyone that uses it feels that way. The one universal thing we have learned is that its a more complex game engine to use and that could be influencing how some people feel about it, but if it was universally that disliked in any of the studios I doubt its continued use would happen even if EA wanted it because it would impact the bottom line from things like turnover to just overall morale.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 12,993 Likes: 21,030
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 22, 2020 11:11:13 GMT
If it isn't, then why did the devs complain about the engine that they're using? Put enough people in a room together and you will never have a complete agreement on anything. Just because there have been reports of people not liking the game engine or using it doesn't mean that everyone that uses it feels that way. The one universal thing we have learned is that its a more complex game engine to use and that could be influencing how some people feel about it, but if it was universally that disliked in any of the studios I doubt its continued use would happen even if EA wanted it because it would impact the bottom line from things like turnover to just overall morale. Yeah if it was as bad s asome supposedly make out EA would likely stop using it. Granted in some cases it may be a little awkward to the point some have been complaining but certainly when it comes t othe final products it seems to be fine. TBH MEA is probably the only game on the engine I've played thus far that had a significant number of bugs in it at launch. Outside of that I don't think I've had any serious issues with a Frostbite game. So I don't thin kthe problems are as significant as some would have you believe. Sometimes people are just quick to find something to blame when in truth it's likely them that's the problem.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jun 22, 2020 13:40:48 GMT
I don’t think Frostbite is all that bad in the end. Even Andromeda has sequences that show that it can get good results with a little effort put in. Personally, my beef is more with some creative decisions regarding certain assets, particularly those around customization. Dragon Age: Inquisition’s bad batch of hair options says nothing about the engine. They could have put together more satisfying hairstyles that fit within the same technical constraints as what we got. From what I've read the entire engine was build around FPS. Which means to do anything else requires a ton of custom programs to force it to do what they want to do. 2 or 3 games in when you have all those custom made programs build to force the engine to do what you want to do it will not be to bad. But those first couple of games were you have to come up with those custom programs to force the engine to do stuff can be a pain.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 12,993 Likes: 21,030
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 22, 2020 17:32:17 GMT
I don’t think Frostbite is all that bad in the end. Even Andromeda has sequences that show that it can get good results with a little effort put in. Personally, my beef is more with some creative decisions regarding certain assets, particularly those around customization. Dragon Age: Inquisition’s bad batch of hair options says nothing about the engine. They could have put together more satisfying hairstyles that fit within the same technical constraints as what we got. From what I've read the entire engine was build around FPS. Which means to do anything else requires a ton of custom programs to force it to do what they want to do. 2 or 3 games in when you have all those custom made programs build to force the engine to do what you want to do it will not be to bad. But those first couple of games were you have to come up with those custom programs to force the engine to do stuff can be a pain. That's tru eof any engine though no tspecifically Frostbite. I thimnkk that's the point he's making.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jun 22, 2020 22:30:01 GMT
From what I've read the entire engine was build around FPS. Which means to do anything else requires a ton of custom programs to force it to do what they want to do. 2 or 3 games in when you have all those custom made programs build to force the engine to do what you want to do it will not be to bad. But those first couple of games were you have to come up with those custom programs to force the engine to do stuff can be a pain. That's tru eof any engine though no tspecifically Frostbite. I thimnkk that's the point he's making. Not quite because from what I remember reading even the concept of pausing the game was something Frostbite wasn't designed to do because it was created for an online FPS.
Getting to to perform certain actions or what not is one thing. The basic concept of pausing a game and saving a game is something entirely else.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 12,993 Likes: 21,030
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 22, 2020 22:46:09 GMT
That's tru eof any engine though no tspecifically Frostbite. I thimnkk that's the point he's making. Not quite because from what I remember reading even the concept of pausing the game was something Frostbite wasn't designed to do because it was created for an online FPS.
Getting to to perform certain actions or what not is one thing. The basic concept of pausing a game and saving a game is something entirely else.
All engines are designed for one thin ginitially an dthen ge tbrasnched out int odoing other things Frostbite is no differn tthan asy Unreal in that instance. Because if I remember rightly Unreal was initiall ydesigned wi ththe sam epurpose in mind.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jun 23, 2020 12:02:16 GMT
Not quite because from what I remember reading even the concept of pausing the game was something Frostbite wasn't designed to do because it was created for an online FPS.
Getting to to perform certain actions or what not is one thing. The basic concept of pausing a game and saving a game is something entirely else.
All engines are designed for one thin ginitially an dthen ge tbrasnched out int odoing other things Frostbite is no differn tthan asy Unreal in that instance. Because if I remember rightly Unreal was initiall ydesigned wi ththe sam epurpose in mind. Engines can specialize in capabilities certainly. But the more common ones are jack of all trades. Unity and Unreal are both heavily utilized by a wide variety of games and has been build and upgraded with that in mind. Hell even the game engine the internet likes to complain about the Creation Engine utilized by Bethesda understands the concepts of pausing and game saves. And if you listen to the slightly misinformed people on reddit that game engine is over 20 years old. So a 20 year old game engine understands concepts the Frostbite Engine didn't.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 23, 2020 12:38:06 GMT
All engines are designed for one thin ginitially an dthen ge tbrasnched out int odoing other things Frostbite is no differn tthan asy Unreal in that instance. Because if I remember rightly Unreal was initiall ydesigned wi ththe sam epurpose in mind. Engines can specialize in capabilities certainly. But the more common ones are jack of all trades. Unity and Unreal are both heavily utilized by a wide variety of games and has been build and upgraded with that in mind. Hell even the game engine the internet likes to complain about the Creation Engine utilized by Bethesda understands the concepts of pausing and game saves. And if you listen to the slightly misinformed people on reddit that game engine is over 20 years old. So a 20 year old game engine understands concepts the Frostbite Engine didn't. I still see BioWare needing to do a lot of customization for what they would want to do regardless of what game engine they would pick to do. There might have been less if they went to something like Unreal, but it doesn't mean that they wouldn't have run into all the same problems just in different areas. One of the common problems BioWare has is being able to plan enough time for what they want to accomplish. All of these problems or that they might have needed to make more changes to Frostbite over Unreal doesn't mean its a problem with Frostbite, but a problem with how much time BioWare thought they needed. The only thing that they seemed unable to overcome was procedural content, but the other areas felt to me they could have overcome it with more time. Now that BioWare has been able to modify Frostbite and made the modules they needed it shouldn't be an issue then either since they have the foundation of what they need to make their games.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 12,993 Likes: 21,030
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 23, 2020 12:51:40 GMT
Engines can specialize in capabilities certainly. But the more common ones are jack of all trades. Unity and Unreal are both heavily utilized by a wide variety of games and has been build and upgraded with that in mind. Hell even the game engine the internet likes to complain about the Creation Engine utilized by Bethesda understands the concepts of pausing and game saves. And if you listen to the slightly misinformed people on reddit that game engine is over 20 years old. So a 20 year old game engine understands concepts the Frostbite Engine didn't. I still see BioWare needing to do a lot of customization for what they would want to do regardless of what game engine they would pick to do. There might have been less if they went to something like Unreal, but it doesn't mean that they wouldn't have run into all the same problems just in different areas. One of the common problems BioWare has is being able to plan enough time for what they want to accomplish. All of these problems or that they might have needed to make more changes to Frostbite over Unreal doesn't mean its a problem with Frostbite, but a problem with how much time BioWare thought they needed. The only thing that they seemed unable to overcome was procedural content, but the other areas felt to me they could have overcome it with more time. Now that BioWare has been able to modify Frostbite and made the modules they needed it shouldn't be an issue then either since they have the foundation of what they need to make their games. Exactly
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link2twenty
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Link2Twenty
XBL Gamertag: carefreetuna
PSN: carefreetuna
Posts: 461 Likes: 898
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Post by link2twenty on Jun 25, 2020 18:07:53 GMT
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redeem
N2
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Post by redeem on Jun 25, 2020 18:31:09 GMT
Doubt it is real but if it is, I'm 50/50. The changes I read were great, but if they are able to restore content and change environments for a simple remaster and had the time to do it for all three games, there is no excuse for the ME3 ending to stay the same.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 25, 2020 20:23:08 GMT
Too many changes that would require it to be a remake not a remaster. The big red flag that I mentioned earlier is the porting into Frostbite, in the past I have read articles about how developers have a problem just upgrading to the new version of the same engine. Moving code from Unreal to Frostbite makes me think the post is completely full of it. Same thing with the with using code from Andromeda to another game, its not just as simple as copying and pasting the code because the environments were designed around the way combat worked. Such as with Mass Effect 2&3 where they added cover to the game or with Andromeda where the jetpacks were added.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 25, 2020 21:39:34 GMT
I read through that when the link was posted however long ago. If they're able to all that, then why not put in maleShepard romancing Alenko in ME1 as well? From what I recall, the content, or at least the dialgoue was already in the game.
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Post by masseffectfanforlife on Jun 25, 2020 22:02:20 GMT
This could go both ways; good or bad. I'm 50/50 on this whole thing.
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Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jun 25, 2020 22:13:25 GMT
I don’t think Frostbite is all that bad in the end. Even Andromeda has sequences that show that it can get good results with a little effort put in. Personally, my beef is more with some creative decisions regarding certain assets, particularly those around customization. Dragon Age: Inquisition’s bad batch of hair options says nothing about the engine. They could have put together more satisfying hairstyles that fit within the same technical constraints as what we got.
Those that are saying BioWare should use the new Unreal engine how is that going to make a remaster/remake of MET or MEA2 better? There are a lot of bad games made with the various Unreal engines, Unity engines, and every other engine out there.
I don't here people complaining about the engine that powers TLOU2 when they rant and/or rave about how much they hate and/or love the game, if you think that TLOU2 is too dark, badly written, and/or the voice acting sucks or if you think the game is fun, the best written game of the year, and/or the voice acting is great that has nothing to with the engine, that is the writers/storytellers at Naughty Dog being good or bad.
Also IMHO I still think that MEA2 would be a better use of resources than a MET: Remaster. But whatever the useless hardcore gamer trolls cried and whined and bitched about wanting a remaster so it looks like they will get one, you better be fucking grateful because if it sucks then it's ON YOU!
Not on fans like me who wanted MEA2.
Not BioWare.
Not EA.
If this happens and it fails it will be because they listened to YOU and you screwed them.
Now you got bottle now shut the fuck up about it and at least try to enjoy it.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 25, 2020 22:58:46 GMT
I read through that when the link was posted however long ago. If they're able to all that, then why not put in maleShepard romancing Alenko in ME1 as well? From what I recall, the content, or at least the dialgoue was already in the game. Plus, it would seem odd that it would get NO press at all. It would just announce and release on N7 Day? It's not unheard of, but considering the 'changes' I would think EA would want to promote it a bit more.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 26, 2020 2:01:32 GMT
I mean they need to gauge interest in Mass Effect again after ME: A and what better way than a remaster.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 26, 2020 2:15:48 GMT
I mean they need to gauge interest in Mass Effect again after ME: A and what better way than a remaster. I agree. Depending on how well it sells, I believe it will sell better than MEA, may determine what the next ME game might be.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 26, 2020 2:20:38 GMT
Which will be ME: A 2.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 26, 2020 2:25:42 GMT
Which will be ME: A 2. Is that the game with a new main character who happens to walk by a pond seeing people feeding bread to a duck?
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 26, 2020 3:59:16 GMT
Also IMHO I still think that MEA2 would be a better use of resources than a MET: Remaster. Those two things are so different that I'm not sure this is a useful way to think about them. Besides, it's likely that Bio wouldn't do the work themselves anyway.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,004 Likes: 9,088
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 26, 2020 4:05:50 GMT
Also IMHO I still think that MEA2 would be a better use of resources than a MET: Remaster. Those two things are so different that I'm not sure this is a useful way to think about them. Besides, it's likely that Bio wouldn't do the work themselves anyway. That is the problem with the way the online rumor mill works anymore. People people that try and stir things up like that Reddit post are artificially raising people's expectations because they want the giggles and there are plenty of people only hearing what they want to while not applying any critical thinking to the rumors.
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redeem
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Post by redeem on Jun 26, 2020 5:45:28 GMT
Which will be ME: A 2. Doubtful. If a remastered trilogy sells better than MEA, it would prove yet again that the original trilogy has a lot more staying power.
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