Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jun 20, 2020 16:34:51 GMT
For a lot of people, entertainment media are very important. For some people, it's all they have. If you like something a lot and some guy comes over and ruins it, like David Benioff and D.B. Weiss, for example, are you wrong in calling them out? Should you accept anything and everything, because "it is done"? And is that mentality something that you should go with into everything? Because a principle has many extensions and applications. tl;dr I don't think it's fragility. If the reason the franchise is 'ruined' is because the writers had the audacity to include minorities - then sure it is fragility.
Or not to end a series in a way that that didn't live up to the "fans" expectations and/or fan theories/wishes.
I love the Transformers and I hate the Micheal Bay Transformer movies but guess what? Bay didn't, can't, and never will "ruin" what The Transformers means for me because I have more shows, comics, novels, video games, toys, and etc spend more time with them in a day and since I don't have to for any reason other than when I want a headache, I don't watch, think, or care enough about them and media related too them to be actually give a damn (and I do find the whole "*insert name here* raped my childhood" to be so idiotic and a waste of my time) So I do my best to ignore them and focus on the parts of The Transformers that I love and that matter to me.
I love Star Trek but I don't care for JJ Abrams' Star Trek and Star Trek: Into Darkness (although I actually enjoyed Star Trek: Beyond) and because I have access to all the other shows and movies again I don't have to watch or care about 2 movies and the media that ties into them.
Simply put if you need BioWare or any company to hold your hand and tell you "you are a special little snowflake and we make all media to appeal to you and nobody else" then you are shit. Pure 100% shit. Not only as a fan but has a human being as well and I have nothing but utter disgust for you. If that is anybody here then just go ahead and put me on your ignore list because chances are you're already on mine.
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Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jun 20, 2020 16:43:08 GMT
The amount of people defending and championing EA in this thread is positively sickening. Sorry for not parroting what Youtubers tell me about EA how dare I think for myself.
Despite what the boneheads on the US Supreme Court think, EA is a company and is not and never will be a person, it exists just to make to video games that will make money. It makes "bad" games and it makes "good" games just like every other major developer and publisher that has been in business for over 30 years and has made more than 4 games.
I have to buy and do business with companies a lot worse than EA just to survive in this world.
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xrayspex73
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by xrayspex73 on Jun 20, 2020 21:23:33 GMT
The amount of people defending and championing EA in this thread is positively sickening. Sorry for not parroting what Youtubers tell me about EA how dare I think for myself. Nothing to do with youtubers. I have been around long enough to see what EA has done over the years. I am not willfully blind to it.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 20, 2020 21:26:48 GMT
Sorry for not parroting what Youtubers tell me about EA how dare I think for myself. Nothing to do with youtubers. I have been around long enough to see what EA has done over the years. I am not willfully blind to it. Poor Mythic. Poor Origin. Poor Maxis. Poor Visceral. etc. etc. etc.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 21, 2020 0:09:48 GMT
Sorry for not parroting what Youtubers tell me about EA how dare I think for myself. Nothing to do with youtubers. I have been around long enough to see what EA has done over the years. I am not willfully blind to it. Okay, don't act all shocked when people see things differently than you.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 21, 2020 0:15:20 GMT
I am upset someone disliked a multi-billion dollar company.
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xrayspex73
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Post by xrayspex73 on Jun 21, 2020 7:59:23 GMT
Nothing to do with youtubers. I have been around long enough to see what EA has done over the years. I am not willfully blind to it. Poor Mythic. Poor Origin. Poor Maxis. Poor Visceral. etc. etc. etc. Westwood, Bullfrog...
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Post by smilesja on Jun 21, 2020 14:23:07 GMT
I am upset someone disliked a multi-billion dollar company. I mean no need, you can just continue to enjoy the games that the company provides. Let the people who hate the company continue on hating.
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Highwayman667
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Highwayman667 on Jun 21, 2020 16:43:13 GMT
Sorry for not parroting what Youtubers tell me about EA how dare I think for myself. Nothing to do with youtubers. I have been around long enough to see what EA has done over the years. I am not willfully blind to it. A lot of the criticism thrown at Bioware is pretty unmeritted considering the sheer accomplishments of the company. There would be no such thing as modern computer role-playing if it wasn't for the massive success that Bioware's had as a developer. Sometimes that means trying to understand their decision to side with EA, sometimes it means criticizing EA for their abusive behavior towards customers. None of that means we're "willfully blind" to anything, whatever that means.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 21, 2020 23:19:57 GMT
Sorry we all aren't mindless drones thinking only the way you want us to. I have to say, EA has done a really good job of telling me "keep your money", for the past ... 8-9 years. I think I'll go buy a new car. Nothing wrong with you not wanting to buy their products and if you don't like them I am all for you making that choice and I will never call another person out for that view point. You are welcome to buy and not buy any product of your choice because that is your money and time.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 21, 2020 23:23:27 GMT
Sorry for not parroting what Youtubers tell me about EA how dare I think for myself. Nothing to do with youtubers. I have been around long enough to see what EA has done over the years. I am not willfully blind to it. Neither am I, but I am not willfully blind to what the other developers and publishers out there are doing either. Making claims that one place is worse then another isn't accurate. EA is one of the oldest publishers out there so they are going to be the ones with the most skeletons, but I see plenty of bad behaviors through the entire industry so I am not going to get on a soapbox and criticize one over another.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 22, 2020 0:01:35 GMT
Nothing to do with youtubers. I have been around long enough to see what EA has done over the years. I am not willfully blind to it. Poor Mythic. Poor Origin. Poor Maxis. Poor Visceral. etc. etc. etc. I mean, two of those are overrated right out of the gate and Visceral killed itself so...
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 22, 2020 0:20:20 GMT
Nothing to do with youtubers. I have been around long enough to see what EA has done over the years. I am not willfully blind to it. Neither am I, but I am not willfully blind to what the other developers and publishers out there are doing either. Making claims that one place is worse then another isn't accurate. EA is one of the oldest publishers out there so they are going to be the ones with the most skeletons, but I see plenty of bad behaviors through the entire industry so I am not going to get on a soapbox and criticize one over another. Fair point, but it is also keen to look at trends/practices of companies as they continue to march on, even with the amount of skeletons EA has because frankly, we should be looking at publishers to improve across the board. Like, consider for example how it is taking 14 studios just to make the upcoming Assassin's Creed: Valhalla what it is from Ubisoft. Hell, Odyssey took only 10 make, so I guess that is progress to meet demand and growth. Keep in mind, not all of those studios are even under Ubisoft. Now, outsourcing is nothing new, so when folks were confused to EA/BioWare outsourcing animations for Mass Effect: Andromeda, I couldn't help be surprised folks didn't know that happens a lot, and in the case of Andromeda it was a rush job with in-house tech the team was not prepped for. Here is the thing, and this is one to also consider; the degree of autonomy from the middle management studios have at EA in aggregate to other big publishers. Activision for years has been touting it's 'pillar' strategy of being propped up by 3 games for over a decade (World of Warcraft, Call of Duty and lately Overwatch, though that third spot has been filled by Hearthstone, Tony Hawk, Guitar Hero, and Skylanders). Take-Two has odd relationships with several publishers but is arguably more lecherous with IP control and business practices, such as actually poaching studios for their own teams, along with some other shady shit with 2K in the past with their affiliate dev teams like Gearbox. Ubisoft as I mentioned above has a 'all hands on deck' approach with major titles, and while they do minor innovations from time to time (Steep comes to mind) we also see a lot less autonomy from the studios on their dev choices. Skull and Bones, their online pirate game, has been in development hell for a bit, and may finally get release in 2021 now that Ubisoft Singapore is done with Assassins Creed development in-between that time. And EA, we get corporate mandates and middle management issues, but we are still getting a fair amount of autonomous development that contradicts the three aforementioned publishers. Keep in mind, this is not defending EA per-se, but it is pointing out how their corporate culture is similar to their competitors, as you point out. Crunch is still an issue, morale and deadlines, lack of direction, but EA has always been more of a patron-styled publisher since the Andrew Wilson tenure, and whether it is due to legal reasons or not, is already shifting directions from what folks expect from most of their titles. I mean, the fact that Star Wars: Squadrons is touting the lack of microtransactions as a feature is pretty significant there... Idiotic mandates or no, there is something to gleam from that because regardless of how similar the practices are across the board, the corporate culture and overall control the publishers have with their dev teams is different in each case. I think that is something worth exploring and discussing, though not in a reductive way of saying one is better than another so they must be a good company.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 22, 2020 0:49:03 GMT
Neither am I, but I am not willfully blind to what the other developers and publishers out there are doing either. Making claims that one place is worse then another isn't accurate. EA is one of the oldest publishers out there so they are going to be the ones with the most skeletons, but I see plenty of bad behaviors through the entire industry so I am not going to get on a soapbox and criticize one over another. Fair point, but it is also keen to look at trends/practices of companies as they continue to march on, even with the amount of skeletons EA has because frankly, we should be looking at publishers to improve across the board. Like, consider for example how it is taking 14 studios just to make the upcoming Assassin's Creed: Valhalla what it is from Ubisoft. Hell, Odyssey took only 10 make, so I guess that is progress to meet demand and growth. Keep in mind, not all of those studios are even under Ubisoft. Now, outsourcing is nothing new, so when folks were confused to EA/BioWare outsourcing animations for Mass Effect: Andromeda, I couldn't help be surprised folks didn't know that happens a lot, and in the case of Andromeda it was a rush job with in-house tech the team was not prepped for. Here is the thing, and this is one to also consider; the degree of autonomy from the middle management studios have at EA in aggregate to other big publishers. Activision for years has been touting it's 'pillar' strategy of being propped up by 3 games for over a decade (World of Warcraft, Call of Duty and lately Overwatch, though that third spot has been filled by Hearthstone, Tony Hawk, Guitar Hero, and Skylanders). Take-Two has odd relationships with several publishers but is arguably more lecherous with IP control and business practices, such as actually poaching studios for their own teams, along with some other shady shit with 2K in the past with their affiliate dev teams like Gearbox. Ubisoft as I mentioned above has a 'all hands on deck' approach with major titles, and while they do minor innovations from time to time (Steep comes to mind) we also see a lot less autonomy from the studios on their dev choices. Skull and Bones, their online pirate game, has been in development hell for a bit, and may finally get release in 2021 now that Ubisoft Singapore is done with Assassins Creed development in-between that time. And EA, we get corporate mandates and middle management issues, but we are still getting a fair amount of autonomous development that contradicts the three aforementioned publishers. Keep in mind, this is not defending EA per-se, but it is pointing out how their corporate culture is similar to their competitors, as you point out. Crunch is still an issue, morale and deadlines, lack of direction, but EA has always been more of a patron-styled publisher since the Andrew Wilson tenure, and whether it is due to legal reasons or not, is already shifting directions from what folks expect from most of their titles. I mean, the fact that Star Wars: Squadrons is touting the lack of microtransactions as a feature is pretty significant there... Idiotic mandates or no, there is something to gleam from that because regardless of how similar the practices are across the board, the corporate culture and overall control the publishers have with their dev teams is different in each case. I think that is something worth exploring and discussing, though not in a reductive way of saying one is better than another so they must be a good company. That is my point for yes EA has a tend to close studios, but looking at why and in my opinion more importantly what happens to the employees. How do you think people would react to the number of people working on Star Wars: Squadrons were mostly BioWare Montreal employees. EA still saw the value in the employees themselves, but the projects they were working on were the problem. Even Maxis to my understanding EA did the best they could to move employees to other Maxis and EA studios. With the case of Visceral EA might not have had a lot of faith in the studio, but their only successful game was Dead Space 1 so it wasn't without reason to close that studio. To me that is much less of a problem then when Activison laid off nearly 800 employees to keep their stock price stable. EA closing buildings and tries to keep people employed and they are criticized for that, but Activision Blizzard just fires 800 people and after a couple of weeks people forget.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 22, 2020 10:57:21 GMT
I mean, two of those are overrated If you say so.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 22, 2020 16:35:12 GMT
I mean, two of those are overrated If you say so. You wouldn't though? I mean, Mythic's accomplishments as a developer were mostly MMO-styled titles and the only one that had potential IMO, Warhammer, no one really played. and Maxis had a ton of financial issues for years before being acquired by EA. Their biggest successes are huge, (Sims, SimCity) but the majority of their Sim titles were...honestly not that good. Outside of SimAnt of course, that game is a hidden gem! In all seriousness though, both companies have pretty weak resumes in aggregate. Maxis is also still technically around as a subsidiary anyway for The Sims, so it's not totally gone either.. I don't know, I just always find it flawed how we view developers sometimes. Hell, BioWare has a lot of clunkiness in their development resume to, no ones immune to it but it's important to put that in perspective.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 22, 2020 17:04:01 GMT
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Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 2, 2020 12:36:55 GMT
Nothing to do with youtubers. I have been around long enough to see what EA has done over the years. I am not willfully blind to it. A lot of the criticism thrown at Bioware is pretty unmeritted considering the sheer accomplishments of the company. There would be no such thing as modern computer role-playing if it wasn't for the massive success that Bioware's had as a developer. Sometimes that means trying to understand their decision to side with EA, sometimes it means criticizing EA for their abusive behavior towards customers. None of that means we're "willfully blind" to anything, whatever that means.
Agreed 100%.
Without BioWare there wouldn't be Western companies like: Bethesda, Guerilla, Obsidian, and CDPR or they wouldn't be making games as "good" as people say they are.
And for the record: I'm NOT a fan of MTXs, forced MP modes, season passes, over-priced DLC, store pre-order exclusives, multiple high-priced editions, and not to mention abusive crunch times, and sexual misconduct. But EA is hardly the only AAA company that does any or all of that either.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 2, 2020 12:40:28 GMT
EA tries to make money, it's a commercial enterprise. It has had many successes as well as huge foulups. I'm kind of with Josef Fares in this.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 4, 2020 2:06:44 GMT
I heard that EA and BioWare were caught making out behind the bike shed.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 4, 2020 10:21:17 GMT
Poor Mythic. Poor Origin. Poor Maxis. Poor Visceral. etc. etc. etc. Westwood, Bullfrog... Pandemic Studios (the guys and girls who made Mercenaries and the real SW: Battlefront), and the studio who made Dead Space (F🤬🤬k EA for doing that! 😠)
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jul 5, 2020 23:00:03 GMT
Pandemic Studios (the guys and girls who made Mercenaries and the real SW: Battlefront), and the studio who made Dead Space (F🤬🤬k EA for doing that! 😠) I really don't care about the name on the building, but the people that work there and it sounds like EA moves a lot of people to other studios when one closes and even former Visceral employees said the closure of Visceral was a "mercy killing".
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 5, 2020 23:38:07 GMT
Pandemic Studios (the guys and girls who made Mercenaries and the real SW: Battlefront), and the studio who made Dead Space (F🤬🤬k EA for doing that! 😠) I really don't care about the name on the building, but the people that work there and it sounds like EA moves a lot of people to other studios when one closes and even former Visceral employees said the closure of Visceral was a "mercy killing". I'm just piseed off that Dead Space is done and dusted (it's hard to find a good horror game and Dead Space and Alien Isolation were by far the best ones).
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