Highwayman667
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
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Post by Highwayman667 on Jun 5, 2020 19:24:57 GMT
And with how predefined Geralt was in terms of personality. I don't want Bioware taking away personality options either. I'll take having only 1.5 million words with personalities and voice options over 3 million words with no options. I think we both agree on that point but it's logical to assume that writers might be forced to do a tighter script if the lead designer thinks we need more voice actors. And it's not just personality which is sometimes affected but also the system itself: less persuasion, intimidation and dialogue options, as well as the opportunity to write them in an interesting manner that contributes to the gameplay, unlike what they do in Skyrim with the "persuade" and "intimidate" options
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 5, 2020 19:39:44 GMT
What's the particular attraction of "side quests"? I don't like the idea that it has to be either/or, but I'll chime in to say that I find side quests valuable because they flesh out the world, make it seem more real. There are things going on other than whatever main conflict, even if it's world-ending. Some people may think it's trivial to make a trek to put flowers on some guy's wife's grave when there is a literal hole in the sky, or get a fiery ram to go home, but I like doing those small things for people. Those quests are a reminder of why we want to save the world -- for the people in it. The "side" quests I don't like are those sorts of mindless ones that have no story whatsoever, like the item pickup ones in DAI, or requisitions in DAI, that have no compelling human or story element. Sure, the players gets a "benefit" in the form of money or power, but they'e not compelling in any way outside of that. Exactly ther'salways been so called fetch quests ebven in DAO for example I had one to get 10 lyruim potions to hand ove rt othe Knight Commander in Redcliffe kind of quests. As a mage I need every lyrium potion I can get to kep my mana tpoped up quiet often. But it all adds to the world we are running around trying to save. It can be argued whether they mean anything or not to people. But if yo udon't wantto do them or they mean nothing to you hten simply ignoer them as you don't have to. Most of the time I can sign most of them off with minimum fuss anyway because I'm always collecting materials and such for more potionsor better armour and weapons as it's pqart of the game. Quite often it's more whether I can spare what I've got for the requistion rather than whether I want to do the task because quite often the tasks already done by the time I pick it up as I've already gathered it for other purposes.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 5, 2020 20:27:30 GMT
I hope they don't. I loved being able to have options, for example with DAI I liked Sumalee's voice over a lot more than Alix's yet if we had only one as the VA it wouldn't have been Sumalee. I'm not opposed to the idea itself. If EA threw billions of dollars on Bioware's lap then hell... have three voice actors for male, three for female and three more for non-binary. It is great. But if it's a matter of time and resources then I think it would be best to stick with limited options. I think it was you who told me you didn't like The Witcher 3 but that game had a MASSIVE amount of dialogue, and part of the reason why much of that worked was because they only had to deal with a single actor. Yeah I personally always wondered what other dialogue, choices other things etc we missed out on because they spent it on duplicating the same voiced lines four times rather than twice.
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Ravenfeeder
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Post by Ravenfeeder on Jun 5, 2020 21:21:20 GMT
Chose Fetch Quests and 'Other'. By Fetch Quests I'm particularly thinking of the Shards which were just nightmarish. things like the goat meat were OK as they had a purpose. Never felt the shards did. 'Other' is combat. It would shorten the game, but combats are the uninteresting parts of DA - and pretty much any cRPG (excepting Divinity:Original Sin 1/2)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 6, 2020 0:10:03 GMT
I'm not opposed to the idea itself. If EA threw billions of dollars on Bioware's lap then hell... have three voice actors for male, three for female and three more for non-binary. It is great. But if it's a matter of time and resources then I think it would be best to stick with limited options. I think it was you who told me you didn't like The Witcher 3 but that game had a MASSIVE amount of dialogue, and part of the reason why much of that worked was because they only had to deal with a single actor. Yeah I personally always wondered what other dialogue, choices other things etc we missed out on because they spent it on duplicating the same voiced lines four times rather than twice. Likely none. The game would have just costed BioWare and EA less money.
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Post by githcheater on Jun 6, 2020 0:43:51 GMT
Yeah I personally always wondered what other dialogue, choices other things etc we missed out on because they spent it on duplicating the same voiced lines four times rather than twice. Likely none. The game would have just costed BioWare and EA less money. EA and Bioware agreed on a budget. Presumably EA did not tell Bioware to use four voices. Please also recall that the Cullen and Solas romances were added later in the development. If EA was so interested in saving money these romances would have been nipped in the bud.
Without the extra two voices, perhaps Bioware would have used the extra zots on fleshing out many of the empty fetch quests.
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Kabraxal
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Post by Kabraxal on Jun 6, 2020 4:44:44 GMT
Better than what? I can’t even imagine better than Inquisition right now... but I said the same of Origins and Inquisition clearly smoothed out its rough patches so I can’t say it is impossible.
But honestly I just want more Inquisition. So I guess more “fetch quests”.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 6, 2020 5:51:10 GMT
Better than what? I can’t even imagine better than Inquisition right now... but I said the same of Origins and Inquisition clearly smoothed out its rough patches so I can’t say it is impossible. But honestly I just want more Inquisition. So I guess more “fetch quests”. So nice to see DAI love from you and others in this thread. It's my fav game . Too often it seems that the negative voices are loudest.
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Felya87
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Post by Felya87 on Jun 6, 2020 5:54:11 GMT
Better than what? I can’t even imagine better than Inquisition right now... but I said the same of Origins and Inquisition clearly smoothed out its rough patches so I can’t say it is impossible. But honestly I just want more Inquisition. So I guess more “fetch quests”. So nice to see DAI love from you and others in this thread. It's my fav game . Too often it seems that the negative voices are loudest. Negative Nancy are just extremely loud and repetitive, that's how they seem many.
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Post by Kabraxal on Jun 6, 2020 6:03:22 GMT
Better than what? I can’t even imagine better than Inquisition right now... but I said the same of Origins and Inquisition clearly smoothed out its rough patches so I can’t say it is impossible. But honestly I just want more Inquisition. So I guess more “fetch quests”. So nice to see DAI love from you and others in this thread. It's my fav game . Too often it seems that the negative voices are loudest. Inquisition is my favourite game too. And while the loud minority loves to scream, enough people count it among their favourites and it did well enough that DA4 is one of the more wanted games coming in the next couple years. Don’t let the few dedicated trolls on the internet try to cover that fact up.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 6, 2020 7:06:43 GMT
Better than what? I can’t even imagine better than Inquisition right now... but I said the same of Origins and Inquisition clearly smoothed out its rough patches so I can’t say it is impossible. But honestly I just want more Inquisition. So I guess more “fetch quests”. So nice to see DAI love from you and others in this thread. It's my fav game . Too often it seems that the negative voices are loudest. Its my favorite game too. It and Tresspasser made DA my favorite series of all time, well...no actually favorite series of all time is accurate.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jun 6, 2020 8:47:54 GMT
1. Playersexual romances BioWare has put WAY too much emphasis on romances lately, especially making sure everybody feels included. Just go back to making everyone romanceable and throw in a few variations depending on player sex and how far the player wants to take it and that's good enough for me personally.
2. Fewer voice options for PC It was a nice idea but that's probably the least important thing. I never experienced half of them in DAI anyway since replaying was not too appealing after spending so much time with my first PT. Yet I have actually more use for it than gated romances technically, so that's why it's in second place.
3. Smaller world Could be in first place because I think BioWare does not understand the appeal of open world. But I guess if they finally learned to fill the huge maps with interesting things, then going back to a smaller world may not be necessary.
Basically,I would be totally fine with a more refined version of DA2...
Which doesn't mean I didn't like DAI. I liked it a lot. But somewhere in between the two extremes lies the key to something potentially amazing.
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andydandymandy
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Post by andydandymandy on Jun 6, 2020 19:32:17 GMT
I think if your PC can be multiple races (human, elf, dwarf, qunari, etc) then multiple voice actors are essential.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 6, 2020 19:47:57 GMT
Likely none. The game would have just costed BioWare and EA less money. EA and Bioware agreed on a budget. Presumably EA did not tell Bioware to use four voices. Please also recall that the Cullen and Solas romances were added later in the development. If EA was so interested in saving money these romances would have been nipped in the bud.
Without the extra two voices, perhaps Bioware would have used the extra zots on fleshing out many of the empty fetch quests.
Yeah ea would have hardly refused to give bioware budget for any feature other than additional voice actors.
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Post by githcheater on Jun 6, 2020 23:57:48 GMT
I'd go for smaller and condensed (story wise) world. What I feel hurted DAI was that many areas had no main story purpose. Negative Nancy?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 7, 2020 0:05:41 GMT
Chose Fetch Quests and 'Other'. By Fetch Quests I'm particularly thinking of the Shards which were just nightmarish. things like the goat meat were OK as they had a purpose. Never felt the shards did. 'Other' is combat. It would shorten the game, but combats are the uninteresting parts of DA - and pretty much any cRPG (excepting Divinity:Original Sin 1/2) The Shards. *Shudders* That whole fetch quest cost me two controllers for my Xbox when completing that quest for the first and only time.
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Post by Sartoz on Jun 7, 2020 2:28:01 GMT
1. Six companions. = better word budget use.
2. Every can bang everyone else. This should keep everybody happy 3. Some cameos.. pick your choice. 4. No War Table but develp a wet-work unit(s).
5. One grognard to steer the newbie in the right direction (ie: Varric) and part of the six.
6. No freaking fetch quests. 7. Loot-able gear that is at least 2+ above your current level with rare at least 3+. Functional uniques.
8. Solid side quests that move your companions up a level or unlocks their loyalty. 9. Companions with different life attitude that clash with others. Makes it harder for our intrepid hero/ine to keep together. 10. A base of operations for the group that is customizable and grows. Don't park each companion in one louse place. Give them a room that they can customize as they see fit.
11. I want to see a better Pink Rose establishment for R&R. 12. The usual four races plus a half elf and half Qunari and half Dwarf. That should stir the pot. 13. Manual file saves for game restarts if you need to. 14. Arial combat. 15. Instant location hopping at base camp or visited map locations.
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Post by Sartoz on Jun 7, 2020 2:28:54 GMT
I'd go for smaller and condensed (story wise) world. What I feel hurted DAI was that many areas had no main story purpose. Negative Nancy?
Practical actually.
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Post by githcheater on Jun 7, 2020 2:41:07 GMT
Double post
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Post by githcheater on Jun 7, 2020 2:48:40 GMT
So nice to see DAI love from you and others in this thread. It's my fav game . Too often it seems that the negative voices are loudest. Negative Nancy are just extremely loud and repetitive, that's how they seem many.
Sartoz - I was referring to the above hypocritical comment.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 7, 2020 2:52:15 GMT
Imagine liking something and still thinking it could be better. Crazy, right?
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Post by Sartoz on Jun 7, 2020 3:19:47 GMT
Negative Nancy are just extremely loud and repetitive, that's how they seem many. Sartoz - I was referring to the above hypocritical comment.
Ah... got it.
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Post by dagless on Jun 7, 2020 7:00:42 GMT
A lot (probably most) of these depend so much on how a particular feature is cut back and whether having less of it can be made to make the overall more interesting. eg. Having only two playable races could be beneficial IMO, if your race made a significant difference to how the story plays out, what you can or can’t do, and how people react to you. But if your race makes little real difference to the game, it just means less choice.
The exception is the number of protagonist voices. This won’t affect game design, programmer time and effort, story, etc. It’s really just a case of hiring additional voice actors and recording studio and sound engineer time. It would be much less effort than a language localization. If they have the money to spend on it, nothing else should be affected. It might even make even sense to have voice pack DLCs.
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Post by dagless on Jun 7, 2020 7:28:59 GMT
I just find the side content (companions missions and romances included) to be more light-hearted in tone and vital to making your roleplaying and gaming experience feel more like an adventure. The main story is just a way to end the game at some point, and end your adventure. The true content to me lies outside of the main story. Never finished Skyrim's main quest, I just want to explore and go on an adventure. Also kiss boys. So as I see it, a main quest is one directly tied into the the overall goal of the game, ie. stopping Corypheus. Each main quest should drive you closer to the goal (or provide a setback ala haven). A good side quest allows the game to build the feel of the world, or provide a window into people/factions that aren’t mission critical, or even just allow a player in a large game to take a moment to breathe and relax. For dragon age, some of my favourite quests have been side quests, purely because they’ve helped build Thedas. Sorry if that doesn’t make much sense. Getting my point across via forum has never been my greatest strength! These responses do make sense and provide decent insight, thank you. My personal view is that all those things that are good about side content: romance/romance options, world-building, moments of low tension that allow the player to breathe, etc, should all be present in the main plot. I’ve been wondering about this as well, but I’m not really sure how you envision it. I might even look at it another way entirely, and think about removing the idea of “main quests” and “side quests” completely, and think more in terms of plot points. Might start another topic, as there’s a lot to consider.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 10, 2020 12:19:30 GMT
Personally, I don't see what is the big deal about fetch quests. Yeah, they're boring, but also easy to do. You can take care of that while on the way to the actual fun stuff.
Collecting shards, though... fuck that shit and whoever thought it was a good idea. Never again.
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