inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
24,481
smilesja
14,664
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Jun 27, 2020 21:26:08 GMT
The "Woke" cult? You realize that these buzzwords lead to this argument?
|
|
inherit
156
0
Apr 22, 2017 19:25:27 GMT
6,737
Onecrazymonkey1
"A person of any mental quality has ideas of his own. This is common sense." Franz Liszt
2,281
August 2016
onecrazymonkey1
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Onecrazymonkey1 on Jun 27, 2020 21:28:07 GMT
The "Woke" cult? You realize that these buzzwords lead to this argument? Actually Pandas usual incoherent rant on page 4 probably did, which you're pretending you didn't see.
|
|
wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,815 Likes: 2,879
inherit
1492
0
Dec 12, 2024 20:16:03 GMT
2,879
wright1978
1,815
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
September 2016
wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
8,116
2073
|
Post by wright1978 on Jun 27, 2020 21:42:29 GMT
Most of my favourite games, whether its the Witcher(triss), origins(leliana), DA2(Issy), Mass Effect(Miranda) as experiences were vastly enriched by the romances. As long as humans are human there is going to desire/attraction and games that want me to play a character devoid of rich element struggle to muster much enthusiasm in me. I understand, and I did enjoy some of those quite a bit. I still don't think the romances were really as essential as they seem to be in hindsight. We would have experienced the story in different ways. I will, again, mention Pillars of Eternity as an example of a game with no romance and characters that were, in my opinion, better-realized than Bioware ever did. Not that it wouldn't be possible to do both, but we *were* talking about sacrifices.
Not saying its impossible for me to like a game without full romance options. I haven't played the first Pillars but i did love Vampire Bloodlines where as a vampire there were no real romances.
For me romances are not a panacea but a very useful tool in the character locker,
i get for others, different character tools rank higher. It never bothered me that Geralt isn't really visually customisable, while i'll happily customise my character it's probably lower down my priorities than it is for others. So if we're talking sacrifices i'd send different things to the chopping block.
|
|
inherit
959
0
1,338
githcheater
1,094
Aug 13, 2016 20:29:15 GMT
August 2016
githcheater
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by githcheater on Jun 27, 2020 21:45:27 GMT
My intent for this poll was not to eliminate romances or voiced protagonists entirely, as the poll mentioned "fewer". My own subjective opinion is that 9 companions (and 3 advisors), 4 protagonist voices, and 6 romances could be lessened, if side quests were improved due to the tranfer of resources.
I consider DAI to be a very good game, but that does not imply that I think it is a perfect game that could not have been better.
If DAI was to be compared to a river, I would compare it to the Nile, which is long but does not discharge a lot of water. I am hoping DA4 will be the Amazon, and hope it is not dammed excessively with grindy multiplayer.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
24,481
smilesja
14,664
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Jun 27, 2020 21:48:17 GMT
The "Woke" cult? You realize that these buzzwords lead to this argument? Actually Pandas usual incoherent rant on page 4 probably did, which you're pretending you didn't see. I see it as well, both can be bad which just makes the conversation uncomfortable.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,073
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 28, 2020 1:00:18 GMT
Liking a post that includes the phrase "get woke - go broke", lauds the virtues of being limited to playing only as a heterosexual male, and accuses BioWare of "stooping to pandering" sure seems like targeting someone. And it's just... super convenient, I guess, that all the things that apparently make DA games "bad" are the things that are important to players of diverse ethnicity and sexuality, and are hard to find elsewhere?
*sigh*
When I saw Ieldra's 'clarification' I knew he or she had made a mistake. One should never apologize - or clarify - to appease the Woke cult fanatics - as evidenced by this reply which mischaracterizes what he or she meant, and what I myself wrote in the first place.
For your information, I am a gay man, and yet, despite that, I managed to greatly enjoy Witcher 3 - even though I had no choice other than playing a heterosexual male. I didn't need to be 'represented' to find the character or his story engaging. Similarly, DA2 had, in my opinion, the best narrative of all DA games, even though we were limited to playing a human. Once again, no mandatory representation was needed. My own identity is strong enough that I do not require validation at every turn, in every product I consume. I do not feel threatened because my pet 'cause-du-jour' isn't at the forefront of every media I turn to for entertainment.
The OP asked what we were willing to give up in order to make a 'better game'. To avoid spending money on trying to please every little identity niche sprouting under the sun would be a good place to start.
Lol, and *I* mischaracterized what *you* said? Whatever you think you're gaining by being one of the "good" gays and tossing everyone who wants better representation under the bus, I hope it's worth it.
|
|
inherit
529
0
7,815
Nightscrawl
3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 28, 2020 1:34:04 GMT
Similarly, DA2 had, in my opinion, the best narrative of all DA games, even though we were limited to playing a human. Once again, no mandatory representation was needed. We have elves, dwarves, and qunari in real life that need representing, do we?
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,073
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 28, 2020 1:46:43 GMT
Liking a post that includes the phrase "get woke - go broke", lauds the virtues of being limited to playing only as a heterosexual male, and accuses BioWare of "stooping to pandering" sure seems like targeting someone. Yeah, I did that as a response to yours, where you just *had* to invoke the culture war with no provocation whatsoever. I didn't want to make this an issue, you did. You know, it would be really nice if we could talk about DA in ONE THREAD where you - or one of two or three others - don't bring this up. It does get tiresome.
I am, actually, not unfamiliar with the problem of being forced to express traits in my player characters which are in opposition to how I envision them, and with that to happen with traits I can't simply let go to play someone else, for various reasons that have more to do with me than the game. I know quite well how annoying that can be, and I also know about posting a rant about it in what felt like righteous wrath at the time. Quite embarrassing in hindsight, actually, all long gone in the archives of another place now, fortunately. The thing is, I don't think this should be everyone else's issue.
Lol, don't pretend that people would have restrained themselves if I had simply said "I think diverse romances elevates DA games rather than hinders them, and if it goes away I won't be buying any more."
|
|
grallon
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
Posts: 475 Likes: 1,206
inherit
340
0
1,206
grallon
475
August 2016
grallon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
|
Post by grallon on Jun 28, 2020 2:16:02 GMT
We have elves, dwarves, and qunari in real life that need representing, do we?
You shouldn't conflate being disingenuous with being clever.
As for the argument at hand, it appears I'll have to spell it out. A good story does not require multiple choices of protagonists - though it doesn't preclude it either. What matters is to have a well rounded character that anchors it; who then serves as a focus to maintain the coherence of the narrative. Therefore, being limited to one race (or only one of the two genders for that matter - think 'Horizon Zero Dawn'), doesn't automatically mean you'll end up with a 'bad game'; so long as the main protagonist is well written and the game is organized around him (or her) in an intelligent manner.
|
|
inherit
529
0
7,815
Nightscrawl
3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 28, 2020 2:59:43 GMT
We have elves, dwarves, and qunari in real life that need representing, do we?
You shouldn't conflate being disingenuous with being clever.
As for the argument at hand, it appears I'll have to spell it out. A good story does not require multiple choices of protagonists - though it doesn't preclude it either. What matters is to have a well rounded character that anchors it; who then serves as a focus to maintain the coherence of the narrative. Therefore, being limited to one race (or only one of the two genders for that matter - think 'Horizon Zero Dawn'), doesn't automatically mean you'll end up with a 'bad game'; so long as the main protagonist is well written and the game is organized around him (or her) in an intelligent manner.
This poll is about personal preferences and what any given player would sacrifice for what they perceive as a "better" DA4. Having a fixed color, race (human race in fantasy terms), gender, and sexuality doesn't inherently make for a bad game or story; having choices for all of those doesn't inherently make for a good game or story.
I didn't vote in the poll because the inverse of all those things are in DAI, which is my favorite game in the franchise, and one of my all-time favorite games. I might say "fetch quests," but IMO that is low-hanging fruit. In addition, responses in this thread have shown that different players have different interpretations of "fetch" and "side" quest.
|
|
inherit
11380
0
Dec 12, 2024 22:01:31 GMT
2,265
adonniel
718
Dec 17, 2019 15:10:19 GMT
December 2019
adonniel
|
Post by adonniel on Jun 28, 2020 3:28:07 GMT
It depends on which game we're comparing DA4 to. I'm presuming Inquisition hence it's the last one and will be the follow up point. I was fine with the size of Origins and Inquisition seemed quite large to me. I didn't click on the poll because I feel my answer is a bit more complex. I would claim that having a story that makes an impact is an absolute must, and the story of this genre tends to be told through quests. This removed fetch quests from the menu. I would accept smaller world than Inquisition. Fewer actors. In my opinion Origins having 4 romances and keeping it simple was just fine. I'm having hard time saying that I'd cut back on companions just because to me they are the bridge that separates this game from so many other games that I've played and they are the ones who made this game so meaningful. I always delight in many companions and in their versatile personalities. If it came down to the anvil, I would prefer to have 2 awesome characters to 3 mediocre ones. AND IF I ABSOLUTELY HAD TO CUT DOWN ON SOMETHING.... !!! I'D CUT DOWN ON!!! MWUHAHAHA! HAIR! Because Zevran > Hair
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Jun 28, 2020 5:39:04 GMT
Most of my favourite games, whether its the Witcher(triss), origins(leliana), DA2(Issy), Mass Effect(Miranda) as experiences were vastly enriched by the romances. As long as humans are human there is going to desire/attraction and games that want me to play a character devoid of rich element struggle to muster much enthusiasm in me. I understand, and I did enjoy some of those quite a bit. I still don't think the romances were really as essential as they seem to be in hindsight. We would have experienced the story in different ways. I will, again, mention Pillars of Eternity as an example of a game with no romance and characters that were, in my opinion, better-realized than Bioware ever did. Not that it wouldn't be possible to do both, but we *were* talking about sacrifices.
I haven’t played Pillars of Eternity so I don’t really have much reference for comparison, but I suspect the characters being better realized is more a credit to the devs of POE’s being better at crafting characters than BioWare picking and choosing what to cut out to accommodate romance, especially considering how little actual content there really is in the games. It’s a fair bet that, say, Garrus, would constantly turn us away to go back to calibrations, even if there was no woo option to pitch his way. I think overall it’s more a matter of everyone having fully voiced lines than other player options, but it’s clear that BioWare can’t go back to text. On the bright side, I don’t think DA’s ever really been lacking for a wealth of lines in spite of that, but they could do better to integrate characters into the story more.
|
|
inherit
7535
0
2,066
abaris
2,013
April 2017
abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by abaris on Jun 29, 2020 14:05:22 GMT
I understand, and I did enjoy some of those quite a bit. I still don't think the romances were really as essential as they seem to be in hindsight. We would have experienced the story in different ways. I will, again, mention Pillars of Eternity as an example of a game with no romance and characters that were, in my opinion, better-realized than Bioware ever did. Not that it wouldn't be possible to do both, but we *were* talking about sacrifices.
Well, Obsidian is/was the better storyteller and character developer. Was, because neither Tyranny nor POEII featured the richness of POE. And now, with Microsoft at the helm, I fear we're heding for the shallowest possible water in future games. And by the way: POEII had romances.
That said, until Andromeda, I didn't have the feeling of bad character creation as far as Bioware is concerned. Romances, well, of course they aren't essential for a good gaming experience. But, if done well, they add to filling the player character with life, to feel more human, to develop.
There are several things I would gladly go without in future games. Meaningless fetch quests, or an unreactive, basically empty, open world. Romances wouldn't be among these options, since they always were an important role playing element of Biioware games.
|
|
inherit
The homeostatic problem-solving structure
8860
0
Apr 26, 2022 11:22:31 GMT
9,146
Unicephalon 40-D
An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
5,061
Jun 29, 2017 12:57:11 GMT
June 2017
legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Dragon Age The Veilguard
LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI
|
Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jun 29, 2020 14:47:06 GMT
Next time I want to make sure Qunari Spearmen are not able to block EVERY FLYING OBJECT! ... erm, continue on.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,323 Likes: 50,734
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,734
Iakus
21,323
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jun 29, 2020 16:17:42 GMT
Fewer Voice Actors, Fewer Companions, fewer Romances and something OP didn't suggest: fewer protagonist choices. Remember kids: Get Woke - Go broke. If Bioware wouldn't stoop to pandering, they'd save a lot in production costs. What game is hailed as the best RPG ever made? Witcher 3 - where you're stuck being a heterosexual male, whose only customization options available was hair & beard. But the character was complex and had an engaging story. The same could be said about DA2 - no matter its numerous flaws. Or Mass Effect. Both had limited choices and a typecast protagonist. he best RPG ever made was Planescape: Torment. Fight me!
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,323 Likes: 50,734
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,734
Iakus
21,323
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jun 29, 2020 16:27:35 GMT
A clarification: When I said I wouldn't miss romances, I wasn't targeting any specific group. In fact, I didn't target anyone at all. I just thought about where I'd make a cut if I needed resources to spend on worldbuilding and storytelling (of the actual main story), those things which make be want games the likes of DAx, TW3 or anything else broadly similar in the first place. If people choose to take that as something else, that's not my problem and certainly not my fault. If a game does have romance and I don't like it, I avoid it. It's as easy as that. Should I ever want a game romance that desperately, I'd go and look for a game which is *about* romance, not an epic fantasy story. Romance has the potential to enrich many stories, but it's not indispensible for most of them. Those for whom game romances are so important that they would make a big issue of the opinion that they're superfluous to the requirements of a good epic fantasy story, can rest assured that Bioware won't remove them. Most likely. They've become too much of a staple in their games. However, this thread asked our opinions, and I gave mine, and maintain it. Note that I maintain it in spite of the fact that DAO had my favorite romanceable NPC. The problem as I see it isn't romances, it's the increased focus and resources sunk into them. They have gone from "love talks" which culminate in a kiss and/or fade to black scene to huge elaborate (and graphics-intensive) productions which a the same time tend to feel rushed and tacked on. Less a romance and more of a hook-up, with little emotional resonance. Just an example that throwing money at a story can't replace good writing.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,323 Likes: 50,734
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,734
Iakus
21,323
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jun 29, 2020 16:29:51 GMT
I understand, and I did enjoy some of those quite a bit. I still don't think the romances were really as essential as they seem to be in hindsight. We would have experienced the story in different ways. I will, again, mention Pillars of Eternity as an example of a game with no romance and characters that were, in my opinion, better-realized than Bioware ever did. Not that it wouldn't be possible to do both, but we *were* talking about sacrifices.
Well, Obsidian is/was the better storyteller and character developer. Was, because neither Tyranny nor POEII featured the richness of POE. And now, with Microsoft at the helm, I fear we're heding for the shallowest possible water in future games. And by the way: POEII had romances.
That said, until Andromeda, I didn't have the feeling of bad character creation as far as Bioware is concerned. Romances, well, of course they aren't essential for a good gaming experience. But, if done well, they add to filling the player character with life, to feel more human, to develop.
There are several things I would gladly go without in future games. Meaningless fetch quests, or an unreactive, basically empty, open world. Romances wouldn't be among these options, since they always were an important role playing element of Biioware games.
Deadfire's main story was a lot weaker than the original's (in part due to the more open-world nature of the game, I think) But honestly, I think they did everything else better. I believe that with fewer companions, they were able to flesh out the ones they had a lot better.
|
|
inherit
1047
0
2,034
ClarkKent
1,122
Aug 17, 2016 20:27:17 GMT
August 2016
clarkkent
|
Post by ClarkKent on Jun 29, 2020 16:57:17 GMT
Comparing CRPG's(especially unvoiced) to regular WRPGs seems inherently unfair. Both are operating with wildly different restraints and expectations.
We'll have to wait and see what Obsidian's writing quality is like when(or if)they have to make a game with the same ambition as a Bioware game.
|
|
inherit
2147
0
Dec 12, 2024 20:49:20 GMT
3,191
Gwydden
1,393
November 2016
gwydden
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Gwydden on Jun 29, 2020 18:00:17 GMT
Fetch quests: Nope. To be clear, all Bioware games have them. The problem with Inquisition (the last one I played) is that filler fetch quests are the bulk of the content and that the game forces you to engage with them to progress. I ignore the boards in DA:O and the N7 missions in ME2, but I can't do that in DA:I.
Smaller world: Yes. Open world is, more often than not, bad design. In their urge to boast theirs is the biggest, developers bite more than they can chew for the sake of glorified set dressing/an overlong interactive loading screen between points of interest.
Fewer romances: Yes. I like romances, though I can do without them, but I think less is more here. I'd rather have a few, fleshed out ones.
Fewer cutscenes: Sure. Plenty of CRPGs prove you don't need cutscenes at all to have engaging dialogue or tell a good story. I want to play a game, not watch a movie. I barely remember the cutscenes from existing DA games.
Fewer voice actor choices: Yes. Doesn't make much of a difference, and it's rather wasteful.
Shorter main story: Maybe? Shorter than what? DA:I is already pretty short. So are the ME games individually, and I didn't mind that when I played them. With RPGs, I'm satisfied with at least ~30 hours of quality content, not even necessarily critical path content.
Playersexual romances: Definitely. The orientation of fictional characters is usually arbitrary anyway, and this way you can have fewer romances (see above) without leaving anyone out.
Fewer "meaningful" sidequests: God no. Good sidequests are the bread and butter of RPGs. Often the side content is superior to the main plot.
|
|
inherit
7535
0
2,066
abaris
2,013
April 2017
abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by abaris on Jun 29, 2020 18:13:05 GMT
Smaller world: Yes. Open world is, more often than not, bad design. In their urge to boast theirs is the biggest, developers bite more than they can chew for the sake of glorified set dressing/an overlong interactive loading screen between points of interest.
That depends on the game and it's design. To be honest, Bioware never was up to the task. NPCs, outside of scripted events, have all the appeal of telegraph poles. They either just stand there as road obstacles or they go through the same basic animations time and time again. They're also non reactive, and that's not an open world issue, but a general one. They simply are oblivious to what is happening before their very eyes. In short, Bioware isn't up to create living environments at all. To say, it's not their forte would be an understatement. So they should keep that to a minimum.
|
|
inherit
∯ Alien Wizard
729
0
Nov 28, 2024 23:17:00 GMT
10,588
Ieldra
4,907
August 2016
ieldra
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
25190
6519
|
Post by Ieldra on Jun 29, 2020 18:13:48 GMT
Well, Obsidian is/was the better storyteller and character developer. Was, because neither Tyranny nor POEII featured the richness of POE. And now, with Microsoft at the helm, I fear we're heding for the shallowest possible water in future games. And by the way: POEII had romances.
That said, until Andromeda, I didn't have the feeling of bad character creation as far as Bioware is concerned. Romances, well, of course they aren't essential for a good gaming experience. But, if done well, they add to filling the player character with life, to feel more human, to develop.
There are several things I would gladly go without in future games. Meaningless fetch quests, or an unreactive, basically empty, open world. Romances wouldn't be among these options, since they always were an important role playing element of Biioware games.
Deadfire's main story was a lot weaker than the original's (in part due to the more open-world nature of the game, I think) But honestly, I think they did everything else better. I believe that with fewer companions, they were able to flesh out the ones they had a lot better. IMO they took "inspiration" from Bioware and increased the impact of the factions and their conflict at the expense of the nominal main plot. Deadfire's so-called main plot felt like a sad excuse to present everything else. That "everything else" was mostly very well realized, with significant improvements over POE1, and the maritime aspect was great and new, but plot-wise, but at its core it was standard fare compare to POE1. Well...I guess you can't make a really inspired plot on demand. I don't quite agree about Deadfire's characters being better realized but they were also very good, certainly better than most of Bioware's again.
Yes, Deadfire has romance, but in my post I was referring only to POE1. And Bioware's characters were rarely exactly bad, just relatively simplistic and often noticeably stereotypical. With exceptions.
|
|
inherit
∯ Alien Wizard
729
0
Nov 28, 2024 23:17:00 GMT
10,588
Ieldra
4,907
August 2016
ieldra
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
25190
6519
|
Post by Ieldra on Jun 29, 2020 18:27:19 GMT
Fewer Voice Actors, Fewer Companions, fewer Romances and something OP didn't suggest: fewer protagonist choices. Remember kids: Get Woke - Go broke. If Bioware wouldn't stoop to pandering, they'd save a lot in production costs. What game is hailed as the best RPG ever made? Witcher 3 - where you're stuck being a heterosexual male, whose only customization options available was hair & beard. But the character was complex and had an engaging story. The same could be said about DA2 - no matter its numerous flaws. Or Mass Effect. Both had limited choices and a typecast protagonist. he best RPG ever made was Planescape: Torment. Fight me! Heh...too text heavy for today's ADHD kids.
But yeah, PST is unmatched in the way every small element came together with others to make a work greater than the sum of its parts. Only POE came close in its impact for me. If I could name two things I'll likely never forget from the games I've played, it would be Deionarra's Theme and everything associated with it, and the conversation with Iovara in Breith Eaman, and everything associated with it.
Having said that, both stories felt inspired. It's not something you can summon at will, even as a competent writer. It's also not something you could make more likely to come about as the result of sacrifices in other places.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,323 Likes: 50,734
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,734
Iakus
21,323
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jun 29, 2020 18:56:20 GMT
he best RPG ever made was Planescape: Torment. Fight me! Heh...too text heavy for today's ADHD kids.
But yeah, PST is unmatched in the way every small element came together with others to make a work greater than the sum of its parts. Only POE came close in its impact for me. If I could name two things I'll likely never forget from the games I've played, it would be Deionarra's Theme and everything associated with it, and the conversation with Iovara in Breith Eaman, and everything associated with it.
Having said that, both stories felt inspired. It's not something you can summon at will, even as a competent writer. It's also not something you could make more likely to come about as the result of sacrifices in other places.
Disco Elysium comes close. But that is, if anything, even more text-heavy. I'm amazed it was as big a success as it was given the market today
|
|
sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 13,114 Likes: 21,195
Member is Online
inherit
2309
0
Member is Online
21,195
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
13,114
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 30, 2020 13:10:11 GMT
So nice to see DAI love from you and others in this thread. It's my fav game . Too often it seems that the negative voices are loudest. Inquisition is my favourite game too. And while the loud minority loves to scream, enough people count it among their favourites and it did well enough that DA4 is one of the more wanted games coming in the next couple years. Don’t let the few dedicated trolls on the internet try to cover that fact up. Yea hit's one of my favourites as well it'sprobably my 3rd favouriet game behind ME2 and 3 from the ME trilogy.Doin ganother DAI playthrough now in fac tjus tcompleted Wicked Eyes Wicked Hearts again last night. Next up is opening up the Emprise and doin gthe main quest ther by clearing out the Red Templars ther befoer I look to start the DLC zones als omixing in any remainin gcompanion quests befoer I do What Pride had Wrought.
|
|
sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 13,114 Likes: 21,195
Member is Online
inherit
2309
0
Member is Online
21,195
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
13,114
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 30, 2020 13:23:27 GMT
You shouldn't conflate being disingenuous with being clever.
As for the argument at hand, it appears I'll have to spell it out. A good story does not require multiple choices of protagonists - though it doesn't preclude it either. What matters is to have a well rounded character that anchors it; who then serves as a focus to maintain the coherence of the narrative. Therefore, being limited to one race (or only one of the two genders for that matter - think 'Horizon Zero Dawn'), doesn't automatically mean you'll end up with a 'bad game'; so long as the main protagonist is well written and the game is organized around him (or her) in an intelligent manner.
This poll is about personal preferences and what any given player would sacrifice for what they perceive as a "better" DA4. Having a fixed color, race (human race in fantasy terms), gender, and sexuality doesn't inherently make for a bad game or story; having choices for all of those doesn't inherently make for a good game or story.
I didn't vote in the poll because the inverse of all those things are in DAI, which is my favorite game in the franchise, and one of my all-time favorite games. I might say "fetch quests," but IMO that is low-hanging fruit. In addition, responses in this thread have shown that different players have different interpretations of "fetch" and "side" quest.
Exactly why I didn't vote either as whilst I do agree tha tsome of the open world sections were perhaps a little too open outside of that DAI is close to being a perfect fantasy game for me. Granted the ycould hav edone a little bit better with the hair but otherwise there's not many negatives I can aim at DAI if any. If anything considering it was Biowaer's first go at using the Frostbite engine I'd have to say well done as I didn't think a medieval gam ewould work that well on the engine (Mass Effect yes I could see that working well given it's a shooter but not Dragon Age at first) and for that alone it almost deserves the GOTY awards it got imo
|
|