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Post by Element Zero on Jun 24, 2020 23:35:32 GMT
I'm deciding I probably won't be wasting my time here with pointless, circular bickering. Not right away, at least. Hanako Ikezawa already has this game all figured out, and it's pointless to try to add anything further to the discussion, right? As always, any alternative opinions, any game content Hanako doesn't like, is offensive trash. I could list the myriad games and topics that have provoked this identical behavior, but why bother? We've all already seen it. So much for your comments last night. Like I said, I don't enjoy pissing into the wind. I enjoy positive, respectful discussions, but I simply don't expect to find that here. I'm content to disagree with you on this game and move on to something else.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2020 23:36:45 GMT
I'm deciding I probably won't be wasting my time here with pointless, circular bickering. Not right away, at least. Hanako Ikezawa already has this game all figured out, and it's pointless to try to add anything further to the discussion, right? As always, any alternative opinions, any game content Hanako doesn't like, is offensive trash. I could list the myriad games and topics that have provoked this identical behavior, but why bother? We've all already seen it. SofaJockey , I agree. This was a phenomenal game. I started a Survivor+ playthrough a couple of hours ago and I just saved for the night outside the TV station. Things zip along when your skills are refined, you aren't needlessly crab walking, and you mostly know where death might be lurking. 😏 If anyone is on the fence about this game, I'd recommend playing it. It was a great game and worthy sequel. I don't know if they'll make another. TLoU didn't need a follow-up, but it got a good one. This game needs no follow up, but I'll play it if they make. It could feature Ellie, Abby, Lev or someone we don't yet know. There are limitless stories that could be told. It's just a matter of having one worth sharing in such a bleak, exhausting world. Jesus christ... talk about baiting. It made a decision to put them on my Block list very easy. I reported it too, but considering a Mod has already liked it I know there's no point.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 24, 2020 23:37:39 GMT
People are welcome to share their differing views of games they have played, that is the point of this place. It's also interesting to read perspectives people have picked up by watching clips on YouTube, but I'd argue that's not the same as walking in the main characters' shoes for 2-3 dozen hours. I suspect when I come to play: Ghost of Tsushima and Assassin's Creed Valhalla later in the year I'll be murdering even more people without concern for the consequences, nor criticism for doing it. Perhaps TLOUII has done too good a job in highlighting the consequences of every life taken, even in a brutal post-civilization world.
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Post by Kabraxal on Jun 24, 2020 23:38:19 GMT
So much for your comments last night. Like I said, I don't enjoy pissing into the wind. I enjoy positive, respectful discussions, but I simply don't expect to find that here. I'm content to disagree with you on this game and move on to something else. Then fucking practice what you preach instead of hypocritically swiping at people.
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Post by Kabraxal on Jun 24, 2020 23:39:37 GMT
People are welcome to share their differing views of games they have played, that is the point of this place. It's also interesting to read perspectives people have picked up by watching clips on YouTube, but I'd argue that's not the same as walking in the main characters' shoes for 2-3 dozen hours. I suspect when I come to play: Ghost of Tsushima and Assassin's Creed Valhalla later in the year I'll be murdering even more people without concern for the consequences, nor criticism for doing it. Perhaps TLOUII has done too good a job in highlighting the consequences of every life taken, even in a brutal post-civilization world. ... yeah, can’t take you seriously either after the clear dig in this post. I thought mods were supposed to be above passive aggressive baiting?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2020 23:44:57 GMT
People are welcome to share their differing views of games they have played, that is the point of this place. It's also interesting to read perspectives people have picked up by watching clips on YouTube, but I'd argue that's not the same as walking in the main characters' shoes for 2-3 dozen hours. I suspect when I come to play: Ghost of Tsushima and Assassin's Creed Valhalla later in the year I'll be murdering even more people without concern for the consequences, nor criticism for doing it. Perhaps TLOUII has done too good a job in highlighting the consequences of every life taken, even in a brutal post-civilization world. ... yeah, can’t take you seriously either after the clear dig in this post. I thought mods were supposed to be above passive aggressive baiting? It doesn't even work, since I do criticize the AC protagonists for actions like that. And when I play, I go for as little killing as possible like for example not killing guards/soldiers just doing their jobs.
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Post by Element Zero on Jun 24, 2020 23:46:00 GMT
Like I said, I don't enjoy pissing into the wind. I enjoy positive, respectful discussions, but I simply don't spexpect to find that here. I'm content to disagree with you on this game and move on to something else. Then fucking practice what you preach instead of hypocritically swiping at people. I'm not swiping. I've been in dozens of threads with this same silly vitriol over countless topics. Review my posting history if you feel inclined. My record speaks for itself. I probably should've just used the "forum experience optimization" features long ago, rather than crabbily snapping; but c'est la vie. We shouldn't be derailing the thread with this type of discussion. I'll answer PMs or whatnot, should you want to discuss this unfortunate sidetrack further.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 24, 2020 23:48:27 GMT
... yeah, can’t take you seriously either after the clear dig in this post. I thought mods were supposed to be above passive aggressive baiting? I'm certainly not above having a spirited discussion about a game. If you didn't enjoy playing TLOUII, I'd certainly be interested to hear your points.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 24, 2020 23:53:42 GMT
It doesn't even work, since I do criticize the AC protagonists for actions like that. And when I play, I go for as little killing as possible like for example not killing guards/soldiers just doing their jobs. I commend you for the quality of your role-play. There were moments in TLOUII where I stayed Ellie's hand (so to speak) to not take a life and was slaughtered for the attempt. It's not that kind of game, it is a linear story with gameplay. If games give me the chance to play non-lethally, I'll often take that choice. Watch Dogs 2 allowed it and I completed that *almost (couple of accidents)* non-lethally, as I did with Dishonored. In Assassin's Creed, I am an Assassin, so I accept that there will absolutely be casualties.
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Post by FireAndBlood on Jun 24, 2020 23:55:17 GMT
Kabraxal did you actually play the game or just watched/read the leaks?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2020 23:58:00 GMT
It doesn't even work, since I do criticize the AC protagonists for actions like that. And when I play, I go for as little killing as possible like for example not killing guards/soldiers just doing their jobs. I commend you for the quality of your role-play. There were moments in TLOUII where I stayed Ellie's hand (so to speak) to not take a life and was slaughtered for the attempt. It's not that kind of game, it is a linear story with gameplay. If games give me the chance to play non-lethally, I'll often take that choice. Watch Dogs 2 allowed it and I completed that *almost (couple of accidents)* non-lethally, as I did with Dishonored. In Assassin's Creed, I am an Assassin, so I accept that there will absolutely be casualties. Thank you. A good Assassin would have only one casualty per mission: their target. And TLOU2 not being that kind of game is part of why it's plot and message fails.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 25, 2020 0:05:17 GMT
Thank you. A good Assassin would have only one casualty per mission: their target. And TLOU2 not being that kind of game is part of why it's plot and message fails. I agree with your first point. AC games tend to cloud the issue by incentivising you 'clearing' a Fort or other location. I will take everyone out to 'get the tick' so to speak, but you are correct that only taking out the target is playing the game 'better'. I found the story quite compelling in TLOUII, though in structure it is a souped up Telltale Game. Probably the most interesting journey was playing as Abby. I was initially irritated to not be playing as Ellie after a key point, but literally 'walking in Abby's shoes' was quite powerful. There are some significant moments of tragedy in this game. Punches are not pulled.
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Post by Kabraxal on Jun 25, 2020 0:09:39 GMT
... yeah, can’t take you seriously either after the clear dig in this post. I thought mods were supposed to be above passive aggressive baiting? It doesn't even work, since I do criticize the AC protagonists for actions like that. And when I play, I go for as little killing as possible like for example not killing guards/soldiers just doing their jobs. It’s one of the reasons I hate the newer AC... stealth isn’t as viable and killing only your target (Who usually deserves It) with no one the wiser? I miss that... instead it became all about the strong warrior fighting at all times. That’s why “rvenge bad, violence bad!” Stories in games rarely work. Few devs devote the time to peaceful solutions.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 25, 2020 0:11:38 GMT
Thank you. A good Assassin would have only one casualty per mission: their target. And TLOU2 not being that kind of game is part of why it's plot and message fails. I agree with your first point. AC games tend to cloud the issue by incentivising you 'clearing' a Fort or other location. I will take everyone out to 'get the tick' so to speak, but you are correct that only taking out the target is playing the game 'better'. I found the story quite compelling in TLOUII, though in structure it is a souped up Telltale Game. Probably the most interesting journey was playing as Abby. I was initially irritated to not be playing as Ellie after a key point, but literally 'walking in Abby's shoes' was quite powerful. There are some significant moments of tragedy in this game. Punches are not pulled. Yeah. That's one of several worries I have with Valhalla, since we have to be a Viking raider. It's like Black Flag all over again, and that's my least favorite game partly because of who Edward is and what we're forced to do. I am aware. Again, actually researched the game, watched compilations, etc. It's why I hate the game. I don't comment on things I haven't looked into enough to get a full understanding. Though I will say I hated Ellie more than Abby. But then I never liked Joel so that might be part of it. And Abby at least spared some people, like Ellie thrice. Though Sony's hypocrisy with Abby's sex scene is hilarious. At least one good thing came out of this game: exposing that hypocrisy.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 25, 2020 0:13:47 GMT
It doesn't even work, since I do criticize the AC protagonists for actions like that. And when I play, I go for as little killing as possible like for example not killing guards/soldiers just doing their jobs. It’s one of the reasons I hate the newer AC... stealth isn’t as viable and killing only your target (Who usually deserves It) with no one the wiser? I miss that... instead it became all about the strong warrior fighting at all times. That’s why “rvenge bad, violence bad!” Stories in games rarely work. Few devs devote the time to peaceful solutions. That's actually one reason why Odyssey (before DLCS) was among my favorite of the series since it had the most stealth/non-lethal options. You had your fists, a couple moves like Spartan kick, knockout arrows, and full on cloaking. The only times I ever really have to fight are when the games forces you, like "You need to do a Conquest Battle to get this target." And yeah, the moral doesn't work when there is no other option and the player is disagreeing with the character's actions but has no say so.
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Post by Kabraxal on Jun 25, 2020 0:16:33 GMT
Kabraxal did you actually play the game or just watched/read the leaks? Sat with a friend through out and played the bits she refused to take part of. I was divorced enough from the shoddy characters I could slit a few throats and just feel Irritation the game was forcing me to. Though the dog was the “fuck you Druckman” point. That was when we knew he couldn’t write worth a shit... using the cheapest tactics in the book to be “art”. She is pissed she can’t trade it in since she got it digital, but I pre ordered her Ghost and bought the SR3 remaster to try and ease that. She is a bit fucked up right now from the misery porn. Neither if hs thought it’d triple down on the worst aspects of the first game and nearly cut out what she loved in the characters and their moments.
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Post by Kabraxal on Jun 25, 2020 0:18:06 GMT
I agree with your first point. AC games tend to cloud the issue by incentivising you 'clearing' a Fort or other location. I will take everyone out to 'get the tick' so to speak, but you are correct that only taking out the target is playing the game 'better'. I found the story quite compelling in TLOUII, though in structure it is a souped up Telltale Game. Probably the most interesting journey was playing as Abby. I was initially irritated to not be playing as Ellie after a key point, but literally 'walking in Abby's shoes' was quite powerful. There are some significant moments of tragedy in this game. Punches are not pulled. Yeah. That's one of several worries I have with Valhalla, since we have to be a Viking raider. It's like Black Flag all over again, and that's my least favorite game partly because of who Edward is and what we're forced to do. I am aware. Again, actually researched the game, watched compilations, etc. It's why I hate the game. I don't comment on things I haven't looked into enough to get a full understanding. Though I will say I hated Ellie more than Abby. But then I never liked Joel so that might be part of it. And Abby at least spared some people, like Ellie thrice. Though Sony's hypocrisy with Abby's sex scene is hilarious. At least one good thing came out of this game: exposing that hypocrisy. At least Edward had a slight out and learned, at least according to lore. The vast disconnect of the Creed and its supposed “origins” still bothers me. There is nothing noble in how they depucted the start of the creed.
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ღ The Untitled
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Post by mousestalker on Jun 25, 2020 0:26:34 GMT
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 25, 2020 0:28:08 GMT
People are welcome to share their differing views of games they have played, that is the point of this place. It's also interesting to read perspectives people have picked up by watching clips on YouTube, but I'd argue that's not the same as walking in the main characters' shoes for 2-3 dozen hours. I suspect when I come to play: Ghost of Tsushima and Assassin's Creed Valhalla later in the year I'll be murdering even more people without concern for the consequences, nor criticism for doing it. Perhaps TLOUII has done too good a job in highlighting the consequences of every life taken, even in a brutal post-civilization world. Just commenting on the part I bolded. That was the problem I had with the game I never felt any kind of connection so that message didn't come across to me. I think that was the mistake that Neil Druckmann did when he talked about designing the game around hate, for if you didn't buy into the story and get connected there is nothing left for you to find the attachment to the game with. Plenty of games where I have been pretty "meh" about the story, but enjoyed the journey by other aspects of the game. The entire focus of this game was to try and make the player miserable so the message around the cycle of violence could be done with the story alone. I have now finished the game after a friend of mine bought it and didn't bother finishing it lent it to me with his PS4.
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 25, 2020 0:29:51 GMT
Kabraxal did you actually play the game or just watched/read the leaks? Sat with a friend through out and played the bits she refused to take part of. I was divorced enough from the shoddy characters I could slit a few throats and just feel Irritation the game was forcing me to. Though the dog was the “fuck you Druckman” point. That was when we knew he couldn’t write worth a shit... using the cheapest tactics in the book to be “art”. She is pissed she can’t trade it in since she got it digital, but I pre ordered her Ghost and bought the SR3 remaster to try and ease that. She is a bit fucked up right now from the misery porn. Neither if hs thought it’d triple down on the worst aspects of the first game and nearly cut out what she loved in the characters and their moments. I think even with the physical versions it might be hard to sell it back, plenty of places seem to have a "we have enough copies already" policy.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 25, 2020 0:32:46 GMT
Sat with a friend through out and played the bits she refused to take part of. I was divorced enough from the shoddy characters I could slit a few throats and just feel Irritation the game was forcing me to. Though the dog was the “fuck you Druckman” point. That was when we knew he couldn’t write worth a shit... using the cheapest tactics in the book to be “art”. She is pissed she can’t trade it in since she got it digital, but I pre ordered her Ghost and bought the SR3 remaster to try and ease that. She is a bit fucked up right now from the misery porn. Neither if hs thought it’d triple down on the worst aspects of the first game and nearly cut out what she loved in the characters and their moments. I think even with the physical versions it might be hard to sell it back, plenty of places seem to have a "we have enough copies already" policy. Many are also not taking copies back due to things like COVID-19.
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Post by Element Zero on Jun 25, 2020 0:50:45 GMT
One thing ND does really well is to manage the player's emotional state from moment to moment throughout the entire game. They use encounter pacing; music; quiet; banter and dread. (The last one specific to TLoU games.) Obviously, it's impossible to hit the sweet spot with everyone, but I think they're really good at it.
TLoU, both of them, are exhausting the first time through. The dread of what's around the corner and the weight of terrible things you'd never want see in real life keep me physically tense. I'm sure I feel it more because of my health conditions. They're both worthy experiences, but not my typical type of gaming.
Playing this one, I was ready to guide Ellie toward payback after seeing Joel killed. I knew she'd go too far (simply pursuing this revenge plot is too far), but I could understand. I also knew I'd be stepping into Abby's shoes and having my/Ellie's anger undermined.
By the time I brought them full circle in that theater, I didn't want either of them dead. I'd glimpsed the good in them; seen the feelings of guilt and self-loathing the each fought with, and so on. Both had people who need them.
I hoped the cycle of endless violence would end. It eventually did, though Ellie pushed it to its limits. It all worked out, I guess, since she ended up saving Abby and Lev. The main menu change seemed to suggest that they made it to the Fireflies in the end.
We don't get to know Abby's crew super well, but most seemed cool. Jordan was a dick, even drawing guns on his friends. Moron. Leah was with him, so I doubt how likeable she might've been. They rest, though, easily could've been part of Jackson's community had things been different.
I always appreciate games more on a second PT. I notice subtleties that can't be seen without the context of the full story. I'm curious to see how I feel about the deaths this time through, knowing everyone better. Jordan, at least, was just as satisfying as the first time, but he's a special type of douche. Nora and the others felt unfortunate the first time. I wonder if I'll feel any thing more this time.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 25, 2020 1:03:47 GMT
Man, that bearded nerd is an evil genius.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 25, 2020 1:11:16 GMT
I hoped the cycle of endless violence would end. It eventually did, though Ellie pushed it to its limits. It all worked out,I guess, since she ended up saving Abby and Lev. Tell that to all the people Ellie butchered for no good reason. And those whom they were important to.
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Post by Element Zero on Jun 25, 2020 1:37:52 GMT
Thank you. A good Assassin would have only one casualty per mission: their target. And TLOU2 not being that kind of game is part of why it's plot and message fails. I agree with your first point. AC games tend to cloud the issue by incentivising you 'clearing' a Fort or other location. I will take everyone out to 'get the tick' so to speak, but you are correct that only taking out the target is playing the game 'better'. I found the story quite compelling in TLOUII, though in structure it is a souped up Telltale Game. Probably the most interesting journey was playing as Abby. I was initially irritated to not be playing as Ellie after a key point, but literally 'walking in Abby's shoes' was quite powerful. There are some significant moments of tragedy in this game. Punches are not pulled. Abby got to see and do some interesting, fresh things in this game. Seeing "Ground Zero" of Seattle's outbreak and reading the notes from those doctors and FEDRA personnel was intense. The crap in that hospital would be absolutely heart-stopping in real life. Yikes. I also liked Abby's skillset and equipment better, aside from her lacking a proper knife. Why don't more people in this world craft or obtain proper knives? I also coveted Manny's axe until the very end. That thing was nice. Using all of the gear throughout an entire PT will be nice. It definitely opens up new approaches. I was so very close to maxing out both ladies' skills at the end. Ellie's skills and weapons were topped off by the time I reached Downtown Seattle in Survivor+. Abby was even closer, so I'm sure that trophy will pop quickly after beginning her journey.
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