Dragon Age The Veilguard Criticism Thread (formerly Skepticism Thread) [Spoilers]

The origins system praise continues to fascinate me, as I don't want my character's background written for me because as much as it can give you content to work with, it also can just be utter shit depending on what kind of character you are wanting to play. The minute I was forced into an arranged marriage with a woman, I just rerolled my character and I would never get to play a male city elf because that origin sucks. Origins really makes you absolutely crawl through mud and shit if you want to play a homosexual male character in general.

I don't trust writers to write the kind of origin that appeals to me, so that system does not appeal to me.

I don't think it sucks as much as it's not for you.

And all video games force you to play specific roles, because of the limitations of the medium. Some roles are less specific, but that means you lose something that you do have if you provide something more specific.

Of course it's a matter of personal preference, but I for example would prefer to do hundred Dark urge playthroughs than one Tav playthrough.

It seems like you are bashing the system for something it never really promised to deliver

Well said and BG3 I'd a great example of this. Dark Urge playthrough feels so much more connected then Tav even feeling like you have your own personal quest or connection in Act 3 that's been building up throughout the game. It's a reason why The Warden is probably the most beloved Dragon Age Protagonist because even with the preset Origins the writing aloud alot of Flexibility. There is no character in any game that's truly ours in a sense that we just play in the sandbox given. Every Warden Origin kills Howe it's no avoiding it. Human Noble though brings a uniqueness to that situation though just like a Dwarf Noble with deciding the Dwarven King or a Mage dealing with the conflict at the circle.

Origins I consider the most replayable because you have like 6 different experienced when you start the game that not only introduces and brings you into the culture and world of the game but it also teaches you the state of the world your playing because your playing as a character living that perspective. If someone knew never played Origins before or any Dragon Age game wanted to make a Elf then the two Elf Origins are actually bringing you into the culture of a Elf in Thedas vs having no knowledge and assuming how elves are in the setting based off other fantasy game knowledge.

Dragon Age is a unique fantasy setting that has its own unique culture and way of life within its setting. I never understood why they didn't go back to Origins in Inquisition but I get they wanted to do the amnesia thing which is sometimes a hit or miss in story telling. But Veilguard had no excuse not to have it. We had 6 factions just how we had 6 Origins before connected to 6 different countries and 6 different cultures. This is barely felt in Veilguard and honestly if they had a Origins prologue before the Bar intro it would increase how replayable the game is. Because as it stands you can do a run as a Elf Mage and a second run as a Dwarf make whatever other decision you didn't make in play 1 in play 2 and boom you've experienced about 95% of what Veilguard has to offer

What was shit was how unbalanced the quest lines were to ally either Templar or Mage faction. Dorian's quest line is way better than Cole's.

To me this conflict created appropriate setting and tied in with the villains. You've just had a pillar of power that held up the system for multiple centuries collapse. This was an old, craning, gradually rotting system, but it was notwithstanding. Nor was there ever such a thing as one unified Templar or Mage faction. I can't remember exactly in which one of DAO games you could talk to tower mages about their sub-factions, but those had varied interests. Anyway, when the system literally blew up without having resolved any of the tensions within it, which were at a critical point, it left everyone without guidance. All those factions held in check by the system instantly fell apart and began power struggle since this is the only opportunity they might get for the next thousand years to re-define their place in society. This created room for the external powers interested in extending their influence into this part of the world to take advantage. I'm not surprised by Mages running around Hinterlands throwing fireballs. You are tossed into this crossfire, but it's not Inquisition's task to resolve this conflict. Inquisition simply needs to consolidate an ally to aid with closing the rifts.

However, for me this serves more as the background, rather than deeply personal stakes. This conflict is a lot more personal for your companions such as Cassandra, but not as much to the Inquisitor themselves. You could be more personally invested through your LI.

Sure it is. DA2 ends in a cliffhanger, so DAI needs to deliver on it. The veilguard being suck as a direct sequel is not something it started.

Everything else you wrote about is not a an unavoidable fate, just the way Inquisition was written, which imo was bad, at least when it comes to the Templars Mages conflict

Fair enough. I had this discussion before with people who hold your view. My view is that I'm not playing DnD, and my assumption about it was that any attempt to actually mimic DnD experience of having your own character in a good story is doomed to fail (either you don't feel really connected or you have to do heavy head canoning which is something I'm opposed to on big things like that).

I think a much better approach is allowing you to have some flexibility inside a character that is a bit more defined. I think on the spectrum between a Skyrim protagonist and Lara Croft the Origins are much closer to the former.

I loved the origins system because it gave me stuff to work with, the way a blank page protagonist doesn't. All I cared about was being able to meaningfully deviate from that established story in my choices. I felt like my gallant, faithfully Andrastian, white knight courtly love type male Cousland meeting Zevran and falling for him made for a fantastic story.

But maybe that's because I never self-insert into games, I prefer to create storylines with the characters I'm given, and DAO allowed me to do just that.

I feel as connected as the story, world and characters are well written, quite honestly. But I am someone who loves creating worlds, stories and characters outside of just playing roleplaying games. It's something I've done since I've been a little kid. My imagination is one of the most important things that I value, and things like the origins system can run counter to my own imagination, as much as it can enhance it.

Well I was hoping for a game that takes the conflict to the next level, and deals with things, but I think the game pretty much avoided it. It was cast aside in favour of dealing with lame Corypheus.

You have one quest to deal with it in the main story and that's about it. Well kind of two, none of them are particularly interesting or actually dealing with the issue of the conflict, and are just glorified recruitment missions.

The most interesting aspect of the conflict in the game is Vivianne, which offers some interesting perspective. But it's not really a plot, mostly a lot of tell and not show.

So yeah, bad

Again, I don't understand why do you act as if it is inevitable that inquisition is about Corypheus... As if someone forced the writers to make this the main conflict of the game. They are the writers, they can make the game about whatever they want. But don't set up your next game as the massive battle between mages and chantry if you don't really want to deal with it.

It would be like if in return of the jedi Vader and the empire would suddenly become a secondary villains and you have to fight evil ancient sith lord that returned from the grave

And even if you do make it about Corypheus, Dragon Age games (especially origins) know how to create compelling smaller conflict inside the big conflict (Morrigan referred to it in her immortal quote "Apparently everyone seems to agree that a Blight is the perfect time to start killing each other"). But spreading mobs of Templars and mages that fight each other on the map is not what I would call a good way to do it.

Now what would I consider good? Don't know for sure, but I don't think I should be expected to, I'm not a writer working in Bioware, I just know what they did was very lacking imo.

If you still force me to think of an alternative scenario, it depends on whether we keep the main plot of inquisition the same or not. If we don't it's much easier, but if we do... I think the set up is not bad, trying to get them in the inquisition is a good way to force the MC to deal with it. But instead of doing two mediocre quests that don't actually have much to do with the conflict, create one quest that is all about the conflict, with multiple ways to solve it, or at least two ways, one that would make the Templars happy, and one that would make the mage happy.

I'm operating from the given scenario. There is a difference between wishing for a completely different game and making modifications within a given game.

You are given the voice as the Inquisitor because glowing hand. No one else in the world can do this task. You have this huge scene at the start of the game defining Inquisition and its purpose is identified as 'close the hole in the sky.'

If you want a game 'not about Corypheus' and a game about mage vs templar conflict, then at the start of the game you are literally a nobody and nobody gives nug poo about your opinion on the Chantry. So, in order to make this the central conflict, you'd just have to create a completely different beginning story and a different hero who for some reason has a say in it.

My comment is based on 'I was given x scenario and based on this scenario x, y, z things made sense to me within the given context.'

I can't analyze an imaginary scenario from someone else's head when they themselves don't fully know what it is.

That comment appeared while I was writing response to you and I saw it once I clicked post.



Errr... sorry, are you referring to the Jedi scenario?


There is a difference between making corrections within a given game and desiring a different game.

I talked about an existing game that I was given. Not about the desire to see a different game. I found you to be unclear because I thought you're referring to Inquisition, not about entirely something else that could have been.