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Apr 19, 2024 21:36:58 GMT
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DragonKingReborn
20,495
August 2016
dragonkingreborn
http://bsn.boards.net/threads/recent/143
https://i.imgur.com/1myVt9D.jpg
DragonKingReborn
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Sept 2, 2020 2:58:42 GMT
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Now Available As A Combo Meal!
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0
16,408
dragontartare
Add a cookie for just $1.99 (plus tax)!
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Aug 14, 2016 19:06:09 GMT
August 2016
dragontartare
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
DragonsALaMode
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Post by dragontartare on Sept 2, 2020 5:01:15 GMT
I want to track all the variables of what they (companions) think about my actions/reponses. By doing so, i want one of these graphs... You jest, but that would be fascinating to analyze. I wish they would give me graphs.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
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0
26,661
gervaise21
10,775
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 2, 2020 9:39:32 GMT
I would definitely want them to separate the sort of things you need to do to get them to do certain quests with you, for example trust you enough because of your previous actions, rather than killing a dragon or giving them a gift suddenly makes them think you are wonderful, just because they like killing dragons or they always wanted a pair of shoes like that. Okay, it is thoughtful, but people can also do that sort of thing to manipulate you and when it is important, like should I recommend this person to work with my organisation, I think going on a dragon hunt "'cos I like killing dragons" doesn't really qualify you.
Also I really want them to separate out the general dialogue from the romance dialogue again, like they did in DAO. I hate being left wondering if I should click on the heart icon because otherwise may be I'll miss out but actually I'd rather click on something else because that is what I really want to focus on at that particular moment. So may be have something like the heart icon only appears when you reach a certain level of approval and then stays there until the first time you click on it or there is an alternative broken heart icon, that you can click on because you are never going to be interested. Or even go back to having some instances when the companion is the one who takes the initiative, like Morrigan or Zevran, but you can turn them down without causing undue offence, unless you want to offend them.
If you do something that is totally opposed to their moral outlook, then they can leave, regardless of the approval metre. Or they can attack you and you are forced to defend yourself. So long as their action is consistent with their character, so you can't complain because you should have seen it coming. Or may be you had just been manipulating them (meta gaming the approval metre) but they finally rumbled you.
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ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
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24,190
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,572
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Sept 2, 2020 10:20:43 GMT
There’s something really compelling about a hero who’s got such strong convictions (or glaring flaws) that they’re willing to sacrifice friendships for them. But as a certified non-hero, it’s hard for me to RP that. I often find myself sucking up, especially in my first playthrough. There are times when it shouldn't matter one way or another what your approval metre is, what you do so annoys/offends/shocks them that they leave/attack/refuse to work with you any more. Morrigan - 100% approval - refuse to do Dark Ritual - leaves you to sort out Blight without her. Leliana - (never done this so must assume) - 100% approval - corrupt ashes - attacks you and you are forced to kill her. Alistair - 100% approval - spare Loghain - refuses to work with you. If Loghain sacrifices himself, grudgingly admits you may have made the right call (if he was made king), otherwise becomes a hopeless drunk. That is the sort of thing I am thinking of. Differing motivations why they took the action they did but you crossed a line and that was it, the relationship with them, in whatever form, was over. I was perfectly okay with that. I like companions that think for themselves. But they will have to remove the option to sell all the city elf prisoners for constitution. It didn't even make sense for Morrigan to be okay with that, everyone should have walked out
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Feb 21, 2024 22:47:00 GMT
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Andrew Waples
3,875
August 2016
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eaglefan129
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Post by Andrew Waples on Sept 2, 2020 10:20:51 GMT
It's not that "I don't care what they think" it's that sometimes I find myself making choices that they would approve of. Rather than it be my choice, so to speak. I'd rather it be a 'surprise' on what they think about my choices rather than forcing it.
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Croatsky
N4
Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: CroGamer002
Posts: 1,987 Likes: 4,357
inherit
Amateur Reporter
2287
0
Apr 18, 2024 23:51:30 GMT
4,357
Croatsky
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
1,987
December 2016
croatsky
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
CroGamer002
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Post by Croatsky on Sept 2, 2020 10:52:07 GMT
I don't even know how would Dual Axis look by tracking both for companions, but goddamn it sounds good.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,661
gervaise21
10,775
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 2, 2020 12:55:13 GMT
It's not that "I don't care what they think" it's that sometimes I find myself making choices that they would approve of. Rather than it be my choice, so to speak. I'd rather it be a 'surprise' on what they think about my choices rather than forcing it. Well the alternative would be not to have a visible metre at all. Just have them voice approval or disapproval to give you some sort of hint how things are going. Then if you make enough crap decisions, or one really morally reprehensible one, they walk out. If you continually tick people off in real life, you don't expect them to stick around and yet you wouldn't change your behaviour just because they didn't like it, unless they made a good reasoned argument why you should do so or you realised you were being a d**k, so why do people expect any different in the game world?
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azarhal
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 7,932 Likes: 21,895
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0
Apr 19, 2024 20:41:27 GMT
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Sept 9, 2016 12:15:16 GMT
September 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by azarhal on Sept 2, 2020 13:44:26 GMT
It's not that "I don't care what they think" it's that sometimes I find myself making choices that they would approve of. Rather than it be my choice, so to speak. I'd rather it be a 'surprise' on what they think about my choices rather than forcing it. Well the alternative would be not to have a visible metre at all. Just have them voice approval or disapproval to give you some sort of hint how things are going. Then if you make enough crap decisions, or one really morally reprehensible one, they walk out. If you continually tick people off in real life, you don't expect them to stick around and yet you wouldn't change your behaviour just because they didn't like it, unless they made a good reasoned argument why you should do so or you realised you were being a d**k, so why do people expect any different in the game world? There was no visible meter in DAI or DAO. And people always complains about it. They want to be able to track how much of a jerk they can be before it is too late. I also suspect BioWare made it so easy to raise approval in DAI because of the complains made by certain people who only achieved to make everyone hates their character. People ask for choices & consequences, but they don't actually want any consequences.
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ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
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0
24,190
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Dreadnaw Rising
12,572
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Sept 2, 2020 13:53:05 GMT
azarhalVisible friendship meter definitely in DAO, DA2. Related: In DAO and 2, we would get zoomed in commentary of comments people would make. Zevran spoke up to not kill the Dalish-- Fenris declined Zevran's offer to Hawke. I think this was replace by "ask cole" sort of toggles in DAI, but that was more to prompt them to help you. More like, asking people's opinions about well of sorrows was more equivalent. We should be interrupted more often about weighty decisions by the people with us.
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Glorious Star Lord
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Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 2, 2020 14:08:04 GMT
I hate the approval system. It’s really appalling. I enjoyed friendship/rivalry immensely. Offered far more as I Could butt heads with some whilst having deep friendships with others. It wasn’t perfect a definite improvement. Unfortunately they went backwards instead. Have no issue with notion of dual axis in principle. If I remember correctly, there were plenty of complaints about the rivalry system, though I feel a lot of people were just willing to throw anything and everything into the pile with Dragon Age 2. Guess we can blame the filthy plebs for their feedback.
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azarhal
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 7,932 Likes: 21,895
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0
Apr 19, 2024 20:41:27 GMT
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azarhal
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Sept 9, 2016 12:15:16 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by azarhal on Sept 2, 2020 14:13:55 GMT
azarhal Visible friendship meter definitely in DAO, DA2. You are right, DAO did have a meter. I forgot. I'm really due for a replay. I remembered the DA2 one thought.
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Glorious Star Lord
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Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
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Party like it's 2023!
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August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 2, 2020 14:14:07 GMT
I rather like the way it was implemented in Inquisition. I enjoy having a straightforward range of the companions either loving or hating the PC, and getting to that point without dealing with what’s essentially a collection of custom-made morality meters. I prefer having more of the illusion of consequence.
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githcheater
N3
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
Posts: 819 Likes: 952
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by githcheater on Sept 2, 2020 19:34:17 GMT
I want to track all the variables of what they (companions) think about my actions/responses. By doing so, i want one of these graphs... I think my engineering degree needs to be revoked. That graph makes my head throb.
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Now with HESH rounds!
912
0
6,636
The Biotic Trebuchet
Stolen by inquisition forces.
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Aug 11, 2016 22:59:51 GMT
August 2016
thebioticbread
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Trebuchet_MkIV
[(e^x )- 4]
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Sept 2, 2020 21:22:03 GMT
I want to track all the variables of what they (companions) think about my actions/responses. By doing so, i want one of these graphs... I think my engineering degree needs to be revoked. That graph makes my head throb. Don't you worry, i did forget most of what i learned in thermodynamics after 2 to 3 months (i highly recommend not to take flights after i get my degree)
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Apr 19, 2024 10:10:53 GMT
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Sartoz
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August 2016
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https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 2, 2020 21:33:59 GMT
Hmm.. Given Bio's past weakness in this area, I believe they will use Occam's razor and implement that which is simplest. But, if I had my druthers, ....
I see the members of the team to be hard experienced mercenaries, competent with their skills... for the most part. Add one or two newbies with reasonable skill but no combat experience. Add the fact that most join our intrepid hero for personal reasons...(French Legion anyone?) a means to accomplish their own hidden agenda. Add prejudiced viewpoints. Being mercenaries they can admire combat proficiency but outside that role, they can either like you, tolerate you or keep your distance mentality.
Add to this mix one or two companions, very attractive who gets along with everyone but not necessarily the other way around. Add, that these two will bork anyone . Imagine that on one night we see our hero + B are in the sack but the following night we see B+E in the sack. This creates jealousy. Add two members that dislike each other immensely. Add that in some missions, the best team has incompatible personalities. The group dynamics get chaotic unless our intrepid hero can hold them together. This is where our hero may need to increase personal Charisma to hold the group at the expense of another crucial skill.
Now the game tracks your decisions which will come back to potentially byte you in the azz somewhere in Act three/four. Having a nice time in Act two can have your team fall apart in Act four. Decisions will have consequences, personal and mission wise. ⬅ Bio is not good at this.(imo)
How does one get to the borking part you ask? Well,... 1- Our hero / NPC companion saves the life of another NPC companion in a mission fight. 2- One NPC companion gets kidnapped in a mission and the hero + team goes to the rescue (no one gets left behind). 3. Do the personal quest thingy (sometimes the other NPC gets the bork award... ouch!!!). 4. Reverse psychology.
4-1 Be an asshole to the target NPC such that the target will be nice to you to achieve personal goal. 4-2 Threaten to "fire" the target NPC such that the NPC in question, afraid the personal goal is in danger will hook up with you.
Personally the use of Occam's razor is the most likely scenario... which means no real improvement over past romance mechanics.
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3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Sept 3, 2020 20:27:01 GMT
However if you do other things that lower the other, then she'd leave because the cure is worse than the disease. No, she wouldn't. Some NPCs are never going to leave because of their importance to the story. Cassandra is a founding member of the Inquisition; she holds a different position over other followers. Solas, well, we know what Solas's role is. Varric brings back Hawke. And they all happen to represent all classes! How convenient! Which leads to... The devs are never going to allow you to remove access to all followers. In DAI, that is a core group of Cassandra, Solas, and Varric. Everyone else can be denied or kicked out. Even in Trespasser, Dorian returns so you have access to at least one mage. Some might think that the devs shouldn't baby the players in this way, but they do.
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♨ Retired
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themikefest
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August 2016
themikefest
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15,426
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Post by themikefest on Sept 3, 2020 20:35:52 GMT
If a companion doesn't agree with the actions I've taken or the words I've used, I like to have that companion flip me the bird and leave. How would my character react to that? Depends. Maybe have my character say yeah, go ahead leave. I never wanted you around anyways. If not words just a shrug of the shoulders or turn around and head to the pub for a pint, back to the war room, if there is one, to deal with the next quest.
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Scribbles
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Apr 19, 2024 15:24:55 GMT
30,241
Hanako Ikezawa
22,352
August 2016
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 3, 2020 21:23:07 GMT
However if you do other things that lower the other, then she'd leave because the cure is worse than the disease. No, she wouldn't. Some NPCs are never going to leave because of their importance to the story. Cassandra is a founding member of the Inquisition; she holds a different position over other followers. Solas, well, we know what Solas's role is. Varric brings back Hawke. And they all happen to represent all classes! How convenient! Which leads to... The devs are never going to allow you to remove access to all followers. In DAI, that is a core group of Cassandra, Solas, and Varric. Everyone else can be denied or kicked out. Even in Trespasser, Dorian returns so you have access to at least one mage. Some might think that the devs shouldn't baby the players in this way, but they do. I was just using her as an example because her low approval scene showed off what I was talking about well.
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Post by lucidae on Sept 4, 2020 16:51:49 GMT
I had an idea this morning that I thought would be really cool. In DA2 romanced companions had special lines if Hawke died. Id like to see relationships be reflected more in combat again. Like, if characters work really well together over many fights it helps build their relationship and that can be reflected with in-combat effects i.e. buffs, combo moves, and social voice lines. An example could be a warrior companion dies, but they're close to a mage on the team. The mage would have increased revive speed because of their bond. By the end of the game you'd have a tight group that aren't just all individual bad assess, but a bad ass TEAM
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,661
gervaise21
10,775
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 4, 2020 20:09:28 GMT
Another thought that has occurred to me and that is they have never used the idea they had in Baldurs Gate that if a certain member of the team who is close to another member dies, the survivor goes to pieces and can't fight effectively any more or even runs away in panic. That happened to me, one companion got fried and the next thing I knew their partner had turned round and fled the battlefield. Funnily enough, running after them to find out what in the hell they were playing at and hoping I might boost their confidence away from the body of their lover, actually saved my life from the fire ball that came next. Still it did seem very realistic. Sometimes people do just fold for varying reasons and you have to cope with it.
Of course, you can't really die in a battle in Dragon Age like you could in the Forgotten Realms, so I suppose that's why they felt it wouldn't really work.
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0
7,815
Nightscrawl
3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Sept 4, 2020 22:18:25 GMT
Another thought that has occurred to me and that is they have never used the idea they had in Baldurs Gate that if a certain member of the team who is close to another member dies, the survivor goes to pieces and can't fight effectively any more or even runs away in panic. That happened to me, one companion got fried and the next thing I knew their partner had turned round and fled the battlefield. Funnily enough, running after them to find out what in the hell they were playing at and hoping I might boost their confidence away from the body of their lover, actually saved my life from the fire ball that came next. Still it did seem very realistic. Sometimes people do just fold for varying reasons and you have to cope with it. Of course, you can't really die in a battle in Dragon Age like you could in the Forgotten Realms, so I suppose that's why they felt it wouldn't really work. This is a bit too much realism for me. Having one of the surviving party members flee reduces the chances that the whole group will survive and be able to revive the PC. Not a fan.
Also, I think it should be dependent on the person's personality. Can you imagine Iron Bull fleeing if his kadan fell in battle? Fuck no! He'd go berserk and destroy everything.
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Elvis Has Left The Building
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Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
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Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 5, 2020 1:11:35 GMT
Yeah, I don't want to be penalised in the form of lost content or even *harder* battles for not being 'good' enough to keep a teammate alive.
BioWare can put that shit in a separate 'hardcore' mode if they really want, for the dorks who care more about bragging rights than having fun or enjoying a story.
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Glorious Star Lord
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Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
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August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 5, 2020 15:08:13 GMT
Yeah, I don't want to be penalised in the form of lost content or even *harder* battles for not being 'good' enough to keep a teammate alive. BioWare can put that shit in a separate 'hardcore' mode if they really want, for the dorks who care more about bragging rights than having fun or enjoying a story. I think it depends on what that content is. Story-relevant stuff and maybe even companion quests could still be there, maybe because the companion literally has no one else to turn to, so maybe they ask differently depending on their outlook, but I feel that a game with dynamic characters should have meaningful changes, like, if a character has a potential romance subplot. It’s kinda dumb if the character can totally dislike you because of your dialogue and actions, but still want to be with you. ”Yeah, OK, so you did totally set that elven family on fire. But I gotta get that D.” Personally, I enjoy when I can draw the total ire of a character, perhaps even to the point when they can’t take it anymore and leave, or turn against me and I have to kill them. It makes for some amusing alternate playthroughs.
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0
Jun 17, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
3,700
arvaarad
1,465
Mar 18, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
March 2017
arvaarad
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 5, 2020 15:14:46 GMT
Yeah, I don't want to be penalised in the form of lost content or even *harder* battles for not being 'good' enough to keep a teammate alive. BioWare can put that shit in a separate 'hardcore' mode if they really want, for the dorks who care more about bragging rights than having fun or enjoying a story. As one of said dorks, I feel I should chime in to say that I would also hate this. I don’t reload after questionable RP decisions, but I absolutely would reload if I lost a party member in filler combat. Which means it’s kind of pointless; you’re not actually losing a party member, you’re being forced to redo the combat. Plus, it would massively overcomplicate the writing process, because everyone could potentially leave, even mid-quest. Which means each character has to have a pretty low impact on the story (ew), or else there’s a huge exploding tree of permutations to consider, just to support a situation that 99% of players would reload to avoid.
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0
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3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Sept 5, 2020 16:03:54 GMT
I think it depends on what that content is. Story-relevant stuff and maybe even companion quests could still be there, maybe because the companion literally has no one else to turn to, so maybe they ask differently depending on their outlook, but I feel that a game with dynamic characters should have meaningful changes, like, if a character has a potential romance subplot. It’s kinda dumb if the character can totally dislike you because of your dialogue and actions, but still want to be with you. This doesn't have anything to do with the issue Panda was responding to: a party member fleeing the scene of battle after "going to pieces" when their loved one dies in that battle. It's an artificial penalty for failing at the game's combat and has nothing whatsoever to do with story or roleplay. Plus, it would massively overcomplicate the writing process, because everyone could potentially leave, even mid-quest. Which means each character has to have a pretty low impact on the story (ew), or else there’s a huge exploding tree of permutations to consider, just to support a situation that 99% of players would reload to avoid. From Gervaise's description, I only imagined it as a temporary thing. That is, the person physically flees the battle, not leaves your party forevermore. But it still has an impact on that battle because it could lead to the whole party wiping out. - Party is struggling, but the fight is still winnable. - Hawke falls, but you've still got Varric, Avaline, and Anders, so fight is still winnable. - Anders runs away sobbing.- Now you're left with just Varric and Avaline, with no healer (+ his additional damage). Avaline is a fine tank, but other sources of damage mean that the fight is slowly lost as the remaining two can't keep up the same pace. - Avaline is tanking several things like a champ, but loses aggro on one archer who pelts Varric with arrows. - Varric dies. - Avaline is eventually overwhelmed. - Game over.
All because some random NPC baddie got a lucky crit on Hawke.
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