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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 4, 2020 8:46:34 GMT
Hey Sanunes, I snipped this because on my phone it looks a million miles long, but I just want to say: you are correct, most industries in the US and around the world are full of large companies who are totally unethical, and will be as shitty and evil as the letter of the law allows, and even beyond that, exploiting any and every loophole they can find, all in the service of profit. And yes, they do lobby governments, as well as funding the election campaigns of politicians on both sides of the aisle, which should not be allowed! It's almost as if capitalism is... bad, maybe? I will need time to consider this possibility. I do not think that most companies being unethical and most governments being corrupt and incompetent means that the video game industry should just be allowed to do whatever the fuck it wants, however. In fact, I don't think anyone in here actually believes that. In fact, I suspect plenty of people in here would LOVE for the government to meddle in video games, if the meddling in question was a "Make the Inquisitor the Protagonist of DA4 Act", or a "Bill to Keep the Icky Gays and Their Politics Out of Games, Games Are For Straights". |
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 4, 2020 8:49:02 GMT
Personal responsibility, folks. It's something I'm seeing less and less of in society (at least American) and consequently, we have more and more laws to protect people from their own stupidity...or children from their own inept and lazy parents who cannot be bothered to properly teach their own. I kind of get tired of people blaming everyone else for their shortcomings. If you smoke you're going to have breathing issues, if you eat crap or eat 3x a serving size you're going to be fat, if you gamble you will lose (over the long haul)...I could go on and on about behavior. Our solution nowadays is to litigate everything...maybe if we didn't tie up our courts on stupid sh*t we might actually be able to address important social issues. So what *are* the important issues, if Health, Education and Poverty are all under the remit of 'Personal Responsibility'? |
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Post by SomberXIII on Sept 4, 2020 8:51:51 GMT
Well, I have yet to see a game made better by adopting loot boxes, whether it uses real world money or not. Well you would only see a game made profitable and successful by adopting loot boxes. That's what the executives see and why loot boxes started to become a common practice.
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 4, 2020 8:56:58 GMT
Well, I have yet to see a game made better by adopting loot boxes, whether it uses real world money or not. Well you would only see a game made profitable and successful by adopting loot boxes. That's what the executives see and why loot boxes started to become a common practice. Nonsense. The gambling is tacked on games as additional income generator. Game and gambling have little to do with each other and games would work perfectly fine without. It's been pushed by public companies like EA to increase their earnings and construct a success story for the management. With "game" design it has pretty much nothing to do.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Sept 4, 2020 8:57:12 GMT
Yay burn lootboxes to the ground! That thing is a blight and abomination to gaming. Anyway, Tencent should also face lawsuits, but you know, China and CCP...
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SomberXIII
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Post by SomberXIII on Sept 4, 2020 9:01:17 GMT
Well you would only see a game made profitable and successful by adopting loot boxes. That's what the executives see and why loot boxes started to become a common practice. Nonsense. The gambling is tacked on games as additional income generator. Game and gambling have little to do with each other and games would work perfectly fine without. It's been pushed by public companies like EA to increase their earnings and construct a success story for the management. With "game" design it has pretty much nothing to do. Your nonsense is definitely their sense. You just don't see eye to eye with them.
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 4, 2020 9:04:34 GMT
Nonsense. The gambling is tacked on games as additional income generator. Game and gambling have little to do with each other and games would work perfectly fine without. It's been pushed by public companies like EA to increase their earnings and construct a success story for the management. With "game" design it has pretty much nothing to do. Your nonsense is definitely their sense. You just don't see eye to eye with them. I just don't buy their games in general.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 4, 2020 9:07:31 GMT
Well you would only see a game made profitable and successful by adopting loot boxes. That's what the executives see and why loot boxes started to become a common practice. Nonsense. The gambling is tacked on games as additional income generator. Game and gambling have little to do with each other and games would work perfectly fine without. It's been pushed by public companies like EA to increase their earnings and construct a success story for the management. With "game" design it has pretty much nothing to do. Isn't that exactly what Somber just said? That lootboxes are designed to increase profitability, not to improve any other aspect of the game? |
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 4, 2020 9:10:10 GMT
Nonsense. The gambling is tacked on games as additional income generator. Game and gambling have little to do with each other and games would work perfectly fine without. It's been pushed by public companies like EA to increase their earnings and construct a success story for the management. With "game" design it has pretty much nothing to do. Isn't that exactly what Somber just said? That lootboxes are designed to increase profitability, not to improve any other aspect of the game? I read: Loot boxes are the only way to make these games profitable. And I call that nonsense - corp propaganda.
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Post by SomberXIII on Sept 4, 2020 9:15:03 GMT
Your nonsense is definitely their sense. You just don't see eye to eye with them. I just don't buy their games in general. Good for you. Unfortunately, many others fell into the trap. From where I live, Japanese gacha, which loot boxes were inspired from, grew rampant to the point that they became the main draw. In these gacha games, you spend at least $30 for a chance to acquire the characters and items the players wanted. There have been tonnes of people who spent nearly $10000 (in case when their luck didn't favor them). The biz gave rise to several corporations like Cygames and started to rival the AAA companies. Even Square Enix caved in. The other companies followed the suit and there you have it.
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Post by SomberXIII on Sept 4, 2020 9:17:33 GMT
Isn't that exactly what Somber just said? That lootboxes are designed to increase profitability, not to improve any other aspect of the game? I read: Loot boxes are the only way to make these games profitable. And I call that nonsense - corp propaganda. I didn't say they're the only way to make these games profitable. I meant the corps see more profitability in loot boxes over anything else.
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helios969
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Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
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Post by helios969 on Sept 4, 2020 9:23:40 GMT
So what *are* the important issues, if Health, Education and Poverty are all under the remit of 'Personal Responsibility'? I think the increasing divisiveness in America is the largest issue at the moment...and that stems from either side's unwillingness to sit down and have an intelligent conversation that doesn't end with personal attacks or the issue politicized. Of course, even that falls into personal responsibility to some extent since each person should stop relying on far-left or far-right media organizations to educate themselves on a topic. |
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 4, 2020 9:28:16 GMT
I read: Loot boxes are the only way to make these games profitable. And I call that nonsense - corp propaganda. I didn't say they're the only way to make these games profitable. I meant the corps see more profitability in loot boxes over anything else. I see. Misinterpreted an "only" then. It's a common excuse to loot boxes and gambling that AAA is become so expensive and it has to go in there to make the games possible.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 4, 2020 9:29:24 GMT
So what *are* the important issues, if Health, Education and Poverty are all under the remit of 'Personal Responsibility'? I think the increasing divisiveness in America is the largest issue at the moment...and that stems from either side's unwillingness to sit down and have an intelligent conversation that doesn't end with personal attacks or the issue politicized. Of course, even that falls into personal responsibility to some extent since each person should stop relying on far-left or far-right media organizations to educate themselves on a topic. Mmm, okay. From the outside looking in, it seems the other way around to me. I consider the divisiveness a symptom of structural inequity, ie, poverty, which in turn restricts access to health and education services. |
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 4, 2020 13:40:50 GMT
This started as a discussion in the 'Dragon Age' section, but the conversation has clearly become more general in nature, so it makes sense to move the thread to the 'General Games Discussion' section. Please do carry on...  |
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helios969
N4
Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
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Post by helios969 on Sept 4, 2020 15:02:43 GMT
I think the increasing divisiveness in America is the largest issue at the moment...and that stems from either side's unwillingness to sit down and have an intelligent conversation that doesn't end with personal attacks or the issue politicized. Of course, even that falls into personal responsibility to some extent since each person should stop relying on far-left or far-right media organizations to educate themselves on a topic. Mmm, okay. From the outside looking in, it seems the other way around to me. I consider the divisiveness a symptom of structural inequity, ie, poverty, which in turn restricts access to health and education services. It is certainly but peoples' unwillingness to acknowledge there's a problem...or each side's beef...shuts the conversation down before even starting. Neither side is completely innocent and neither side is willing to accept any form of criticism from the other without mob mentality outrage. I'm inclined to take the Sera approach and lock 'em in a room and toss in a jar of bees. Undoubtedly there is a huge socioeconomic issue to be addressed but I don't know how you accomplish that without honest discussion with each side open to assessing the pros and cons of different philosophical approaches. Nobody's going to end up with a 100% of what they want.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 4, 2020 17:38:11 GMT
Like I said I don't care about lootboxes and sometimes buy them as long as they're not pay to win. That being said you'll be surprised how many game developers still believe that games can cause violence. (Like the developers from Spec Ops: The Line.) Yeah, they don't really believe that. I can promise you that much. I'm not sure about that but we're veering off topic.
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Post by Serza on Sept 5, 2020 13:26:56 GMT
It's funny how we gamers were against government interfering with games over a decade ago, now it seems we're asking the government who doesn't know a thing about video games to regulate aspects of it just because it's a company they don't like. Oh how times have changed.
"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 5, 2020 20:46:47 GMT
Hey Sanunes, I snipped this because on my phone it looks a million miles long, but I just want to say: you are correct, most industries in the US and around the world are full of large companies who are totally unethical, and will be as shitty and evil as the letter of the law allows, and even beyond that, exploiting any and every loophole they can find, all in the service of profit. And yes, they do lobby governments, as well as funding the election campaigns of politicians on both sides of the aisle, which should not be allowed! It's almost as if capitalism is... bad, maybe? I will need time to consider this possibility. I do not think that most companies being unethical and most governments being corrupt and incompetent means that the video game industry should just be allowed to do whatever the fuck it wants, however. In fact, I don't think anyone in here actually believes that. In fact, I suspect plenty of people in here would LOVE for the government to meddle in video games, if the meddling in question was a "Make the Inquisitor the Protagonist of DA4 Act", or a "Bill to Keep the Icky Gays and Their Politics Out of Games, Games Are For Straights". I don't think the game industry should be allowed to do what it wants, but at the same time I don't think government getting involved will do anything. I think looking for other methods for change is what is needed I can even use EA as an example even though they still have The Ultimate Team in Madden and FIFA they haven't put lootboxes in the last several releases, no government involvement, but how players themselves were reacting to it. Even the worst companies seem to do more to fix their problems with their user base is who demands the change, any kind of government reaction normally just gets ignored by the companies as they continue business as usual. Yet when people stop buying their products in protest or start letter writing campaigns that is when real change starts.
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