Stealth Mechanics in DA 4...

I'm wondering if they can do something similar to the dark zones in Trespasser. There were some qunari assassins and elven spirits that would ambush us in the dark and the only way to reveal them is to use the mark.

So let's say in da4 we're going through an area with extinguishable light sources, one person can do what calpernia-look-alike did in the concept art and put out the lights - enemies can't fight back during this time but there'll be things to balance this out*. Then the party has a few seconds to get into position and deal free damage, roguish characters can do bonus damage and even trigger stealth finishers (maybe a "fear" or "surprised" debuff that lasts even after the lights turn back on). Enemies can counteract your ambush in several simple ways: 1) they detect you before you can turn off any lights, 2) they detect you after you turn off some of the lights in which case they'll run to the remaining lights and protect them**, or 3) they have magical allies that will break your stealth a few seconds after you initiated it. Certain combat encounters will involve the enemies trying to ambush your team but you can work quickly to counter this as well. I think enemies should take no more than ~3 seconds to detect you if they see your multiplayer party in the light but in single player there should be a little more leeway for npc members.

*enemies with elite shields can still block from the front, elite rogue characters can still dodge unless you work with your party to root them down, mage enemies will prematurely activate their barriers and teleport to braziers to relight them (can be used to advantage since you'll know where they'll be going, allowing traps to be set-up). On top of all that the player(s) have to decide, "do we use the allotted time to take out a number of weaker minions or focus all attention on the poweful one?"

**if the enemy decides to turtle-up next to the reamaining light sources, certain party members can stay in the dark areas for bonuses, similar to when Rogues received an elevation bonus. Except players can also increase dodge chance or armour rating when standing in dark/dim areas.

Voted for Bioware traditional. For Bioware games I usually play a mage, and I prefer a style of combat that isn't heavily focused on stealth.

I haven't played Ghost Recon, but in Greedfall they used a system where only the pc had to worry about being seen. It was a bit funny to see the companions standing out in the open while the pc hid.

I'm ok with the way it's been done in past DA games, though I don't use it a lot typically. What I don't like are stealth systems where you have some mechanic for being seen...basically because I suck at it and always get caught. In an RPG I think I should be able to have a character I roleplay as stealthy without me as a player needing to be good at it.

It would be neat if it could also be incorporated into dialogue options in some way where you could try to sneak past say a guard in a city and it would be a skill check (rather than relying on the player's skill). Not sure how that would work exactly but I'm always a fan of incorporating skills into dialogue options (bring persuasion back too please!).

I really don't think I know of a way that stealth that could be implemented in a BioWare game as I see them and it working well. The companion mechanic I think would ruin stealth or just look completely odd. The one way I think it could be fixed is if as a stealth character we could go on missions alone or with other characters that could stealth such as two rogues and two wizards all skilled in some kind of stealth ability. I am not a big fan of the "30 seconds of invisibility to do something then you are normal again" approach or the you are invisible and since you are invisible the tank you are with is invisible just standing there.

The first question for me is: what are the uses for stealth in a DA game?

-- The rogue stealth talent is typically used to drop aggro and/or move in for a sneak attack (automatic crit) during combat.
-- It may be used for recon and disarming traps before the full party enters an area (although entering some areas will trigger a cutscene that leads to combat while the other followers are still holding in the previous area)
-- In DAO, stealthing prior to stealing was useful - but stealing hasn't been a thing since DAO.

There have been a few other specific cases that mimic sneaking for a specific quest, like:
-- Overhearing the ship captains' conversation on the docks in DA2. That was done with special programming that had the captains notice you after they finished the conversation.
-- Infiltrating Chateau Haine in MotA, which was done by avoiding the line-of-sight of guards on timed patrols - no special stealth talent involved.

Unless they change the distinct modes thing previously mentioned, you couldn't really stealth kill a toon in DA, at least not unless you're already in combat. Most planned encounters with named characters start with a dialogue cutscene. Encounters with mobs are also planned, and they aggro straight to combat mode as soon as perception appears. So... unless some of the other mechanics change and levels are designed to promote stealthing opportunities, I'm not really seeing any need for any changes to how it works in DA.

now you might have a point on the distinct modes of gameplay and...I am no game developer... just I know other companies that either don't have those modes or the transition is seamless. I wonder what it would entail for bio to do likewise.

I suppose the *easiest* solution would be to widen what they consider part of 'combat mode'. In Odyssey you had zones which were designed for combat, forts, etc. That if you got caught it would trigger a response. You could still have the more or less bioware stuff in the 'open world' since stealth would not need to be as needed but if base infiltration is a part of 4s gameplay loop then you could have the need for broader more specific stealth. Bonus points since it would theoretically be possible to have the bioware traditional still coexisting in here with that base infiltration.

I can just imagine my hulking bruiser companion just standing there sticking out of the tall grass while my PC is crouched, and none of the mooks I’m about to kill are any the wiser.

DA has never had anything close to what I consider to be actual "stealth mechanics" before. Even in DAO stealth was not what I would call a viable strategy, I don't recall any situation in DAO where stealth allows you to avoid combat, or had a significant affect on combat overall. Honestly, I don't think it should be added. I'm kind of over every single game trying to be all things to all people.

I don't really consider "stealth" to have ever been a core feature of the rogue class. The main purpose of rogues in DA has always been DPS, and stuff like being able to vanish temporarily is really just a means to move about the combat area undisturbed

I can think of a few heavily-trapped areas where it's useful to have a rogue slip in and disarm the traps before entering combat. But you could always work around this by pulling the enemies to you with ranged combat, yeah.

that is a feature of DA. All classes have their archetypes but they can be blended.

(Another reason why we should go classless)

In addition to that, magic being a yes/no thing.