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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 22, 2020 22:46:33 GMT
Btw, PS5 players will need to buy the Anthem relaunch, to play it on their PS5s. Just an FYI. Why's that? PS5 is backward compatible with a select number of PS4 games, all first party title and some of the "best" third party titles. Call me predisposed, but I don't think Anthem makes the cut.
On the bright side, it will be free with the gamepass on the XSEX, if you intend to be a "former" PS player and PC is, well, PC.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 23, 2020 0:41:16 GMT
Yes, of course this why EA, notoriously super-lenient with studios that underperformed and who don't close any at all ever, decided it would make perfect sense to delay and clear the books on a first attempt on a sequel that supposedly boosted it's sales on 4 million $1 purchases and double down on it's re-boot. Makes sense... They did it with Montreal and Visceral and ... I think I'm missing a studio. The point is, EA's rep is in the shitter. They can close Bioware and they can win the golden poo that goes along with it. EA is MEGA butt hurt about that. Remember that article last year, about how they couldn't believe they're the bad guys? For some reason, EA doesn't like that. I assume it hurts their bottom line, to some extent and consider it very important they never earn it again. Closing Bioware, while it may seem merciful to some, at this point, was a big no no for EA. They do believe that by not doing so and not giving up on Anthem, after the disastrous launch, they're earning good will points. Btw, PS5 players will need to buy the Anthem relaunch, to play it on their PS5s. Just an FYI.
Edit: I'm being disingenuous on the $1 price, it's an exaggeration, but the point is that the game gets extreme discounts to achieve big numbers. And it was done for multiple reasons, especially on PC, on which DA:I sold fairly well, because EA was still trying to solidify Origin on PC, hence the often discounts. But as a result, people aren't invested in a cheap title. If they don't like it, they don't regret the small amount of money it cost them. Their feeling towards the title and the setting are fairly mild and indifferent. To put it another way, it does not promote a loyal and devoted fanbase, but an ephemeral sale. Not that the game should cost $100 to represent its value to the player, but it's worse to garner a resounding "meh" as a reaction, to loving or hating it. You can fix what people hate and you can improve what people love. You have nothing to work with, when people don't care to engage and give you feedback.
EA is a business...if they don't care if one their corporate lawyers uses the term "surprise mechanics" to describe essentially online gambling for youngsters, if they don't care about the flack associated with adding a bunch of intrusive ads in their "UFC" game, and other such nonsense, they aren't going to care about shutting down an underperforming studio, especially if the brand has somewhat eroded after two troubled launches. Fact is BioWare makes money with their products or they wouldn't exist and EA wouldn't keep propping seemingly failed endeavors if the numbers didn't tell them too.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 23, 2020 0:55:55 GMT
I'm losing the thread. Is there a debate about whether EA found DAI's financial performance acceptable? If so, what's the evidence that they did not?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Sharable Horizon on Sept 23, 2020 3:03:12 GMT
Petrakus gonna Petrakus...
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Post by biggydx on Sept 23, 2020 3:18:32 GMT
I'm losing the thread. Is there a debate about whether EA found DAI's financial performance acceptable? If so, what's the evidence that they did not? Isn't it illegal to misreport profits/losses?
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Sept 23, 2020 3:23:45 GMT
I'm losing the thread. Is there a debate about whether EA found DAI's financial performance acceptable? If so, what's the evidence that they did not? Isn't it illegal to misreport profits/losses? To shareholders or to the stock exchange; yes. To reporters, not so much. The issue - that some - have with DAI and the claims made about its success from what I've observed are around the odd wording. They (EA) reported - to shareholders - that DAI was the "most successful launch" in Bioware's history. That then dovetails nicely for them (doubters) into, 'well yes, but then everyone discovered it was garbage and got refunds' or something along those lines. This is a dance that has been going on for a while. It doesn't get more interesting with the passage of time. The statement from the book; that DAI was the bestselling DA game is new, as far as I was aware, but in no way a surprise. Despite my feelings about it, Multiplayer will undoubtedly have brought new players to the series in significant numbers.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 23, 2020 8:01:55 GMT
Fact is BioWare makes money with their products or they wouldn't exist and EA wouldn't keep propping seemingly failed endeavors if the numbers didn't tell them too. I have not said that Inquisition wasn't profitable, or that even Anthem wasn't profitable. But the RoI was abysmal. If you spent $1 to get $1.10 back, it's still profitable. SW:ToR was profitable, after 8 years. I'm saying the success of these games here is overstated and especially EA's wording, that dances around the issue, allows for such speculation. EA has not lied about a lot of their reports, but their wording is very free to interpretation. For other games, they're not as vague as they've been with Bioware ones. Isn't it illegal to misreport profits/losses? Stuffing a Bioware game's earning in the quarterly total, especially when there's hundreds of millions of dollars of microtransactions in that same quarter, is a good way to report without reporting specific numbers. They've never misreported their earnings. You just don't know what part of their business earned what. That then dovetails nicely for them (doubters) into, 'well yes, but then everyone discovered it was garbage and got refunds' or something along those lines. Not refunds. It sold really well for three days. It never made the NPD top 10. I'm fairly certain that "most successful launch" entails for a Bioware game, in pre-orders, on a Playstation console. Which is omitted, but doesn't make it a false statement. I'm going to say it again, EA has never lied to anyone, about DA:I's success.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 23, 2020 16:03:25 GMT
Fact is BioWare makes money with their products or they wouldn't exist and EA wouldn't keep propping seemingly failed endeavors if the numbers didn't tell them too. I have not said that Inquisition wasn't profitable, or that even Anthem wasn't profitable. But the RoI was abysmal. If you spent $1 to get $1.10 back, it's still profitable. SW:ToR was profitable, after 8 years. I'm saying the success of these games here is overstated and especially EA's wording, that dances around the issue, allows for such speculation. EA has not lied about a lot of their reports, but their wording is very free to interpretation. For other games, they're not as vague as they've been with Bioware ones. Isn't it illegal to misreport profits/losses? Stuffing a Bioware game's earning in the quarterly total, especially when there's hundreds of millions of dollars of microtransactions in that same quarter, is a good way to report without reporting specific numbers. They've never misreported their earnings. You just don't know what part of their business earned what. That then dovetails nicely for them (doubters) into, 'well yes, but then everyone discovered it was garbage and got refunds' or something along those lines. Not refunds. It sold really well for three days. It never made the NPD top 10. I'm fairly certain that "most successful launch" entails for a Bioware game, in pre-orders, on a Playstation console. Which is omitted, but doesn't make it a false statement. I'm going to say it again, EA has never lied to anyone, about DA:I's success.
"For other games, they're not as vague as they've been with Bioware ones." Again, this is your assertion but it doesn't make a lot of sense. EA has to justify dollars spent both internally and to investors...why does BioWare get such protection? Their titles aren't these big "COD/Battlefield" successes in terms of units sold or Multiplayer engagement...they're relatively niche in terms of focusing a lot on narrative, animated cut scenes, branched dialogue, character creator, third person perspective, playing as male or female, party banter, player choice, and romance. Then, you consider both "Mass Effect Andromeda" and "Anthem" didn't end their respective 12 months release windows in the top ten games sold (though both spent a significant amount of months in the top 10) and we're both received as critical and PR failures. Yet, "Anthem" gets a re-work, "Joplin" gets waived off the books and re-set as "Morrison" and the "Mass Effect Trilogy" gets remastered and a new title is currently in development. Just taking "Dragon Age 4" - it's the fourth game in a lore-heavy series that has also put out a ton of books/comics just to provide enough context for what is happening in its "world". How are they anticipating such a lore and context dependent title to justify the amount of money and years spent on development if they are only expecting a meager ROI? And, according to you, they'd have to be expecting it considering EA has spent years folding BioWare's deficiencies into their overall numbers all the while knowing they were deliberately misleading investors as to the studio's overall lack of success financially compared to other AAA titles. Also, after the reception "ME:A" and "Anthem", I don't think BioWare is considered a "glamour" studio or one that needs to be protected in order to avoid a PR hit if you closed them. So, why is BioWare so "special" to EA to justify this much effort is continuing its existence? Enough to open a new studio space in Edmonton with room for expanding the team?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 23, 2020 16:30:56 GMT
So, why is BioWare so "special" to EA to justify this much effort is continuing its existence? Enough to open a new studio space in Edmonton with room for expanding the team? First of all, the new building space was announced years ago, with the move only happening fairly recently. As I've said, I did not claim that Inquisition or Anthem weren't profitable, although I've done a lot of numbers work to say that Andromeda's earnings, on launch, were at around a $5 million US deficit. I'm not going to claim it didn't recoup that amount in the coming weeks or months, but in the 6 week launch window, ME:A did not make back its budget. Which is why Montreal was indeed closed. In addition, we had reports from Angry Joe about Bioware Austin being a ghost town and the Schreier article on Anthem, about how positions in Edmonton are not being restaffed. So I don't think EA is treating Bioware all that nicely and each new title so far has seen Bioware downsized, respectively. So no, I don't think Bioware is "special" to EA, at all. But I don't think you'll agree to any of this, or make any concession yourself. So I don't see the point of arguing on this, further.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 23, 2020 16:40:45 GMT
So, why is BioWare so "special" to EA to justify this much effort is continuing its existence? Enough to open a new studio space in Edmonton with room for expanding the team? First of all, the new building space was announced years ago, with the move only happening fairly recently. As I've said, I did not claim that Inquisition or Anthem weren't profitable, although I've done a lot of numbers work to say that Andromeda's earnings, on launch, were at around a $5 million US deficit. I'm not going to claim it didn't recoup that amount in the coming weeks or months, but in the 6 week launch window, ME:A did not make back its budget. Which is why Montreal was indeed closed. In addition, we had reports from Angry Joe about Bioware Austin being a ghost town and the Schreier article on Anthem, about how positions in Edmonton are not being restaffed. So I don't think EA is treating Bioware all that nicely and each new title so far has seen Bioware downsized, respectively. So no, I don't think Bioware is "special" to EA, at all. But I don't think you'll agree to any of this, or make any concession yourself. So I don't see the point of arguing on this, further. Well, shit, if Angry Joe said that...wow, full retraction then. But, yeah, no point in continuing to hammer something this nebulous.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 23, 2020 16:54:05 GMT
Well, shit, if Angry Joe said that...wow, full retraction then. But, yeah, no point in continuing to hammer something this nebulous. He made a video about it, saying how he lives in Austin and the Bioware studio is close enough that he visited it. So maybe Angry Joe is a liar, as you claim, but Schreier also reported on the downsizing of Edmonton, Montreal was closed. So I do see a pattern of Bioware studios being understaffed or shelved, for poor performance. And maybe Austin is the only studio that is left unscathed, sure. But I have a hard time believing it. You don't really have to agree with me, I'm just relaying things as are being reported by first hand sources. Not to mention, if EA wanted, they could sue Angry Joe for libel, for making false claims, if EA believed that Angry Joe was defaming them and that caused damage to their business model. After all, Joe has quite the following and, therefore, some influence. Maybe good guy EA just let it slide. That could be the case.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 23, 2020 17:11:01 GMT
Well, shit, if Angry Joe said that...wow, full retraction then. But, yeah, no point in continuing to hammer something this nebulous. He made a video about it, saying how he lives in Austin and the Bioware studio is close enough that he visited it. So maybe Angry Joe is a liar, as you claim, but Schreier also reported on the downsizing of Edmonton, Montreal was closed. So I do see a pattern of Bioware studios being understaffed or shelved, for poor performance. And maybe Austin is the only studio that is left unscathed, sure. But I have a hard time believing it. You don't really have to agree with me, I'm just relaying things as are being reported by first hand sources. Not to mention, if EA wanted, they could sue Angry Joe for libel, for making false claims, if EA believed that Angry Joe was defaming them and that caused damage to their business model. After all, Joe has quite the following and, therefore, some influence. Maybe good guy EA just let it slide. That could be the case. Well, I mean, "good guy EA" has kept a charity case like BioWare open all these years so they definitely appear to be altruistic. As for Angry Joe, I'm sure the lobby to BioWare's Austin offices were quite empty the Holiday he visited so he's likely "technically" correct. BioWare has had a ton of postings on their career page for both Austin (TOR and Anthem specified) Edmonton (both Dragon Age specified and unspecified) over the past year that have since been filled...maybe all of this changes in a post-COVID world and if DA4 is poorly received so I guess we'll just have to see...
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 23, 2020 17:14:07 GMT
maybe all of this changes in a post-COVID world and if DA4 is poorly received so I guess we'll just have to see... I'm right there with you on that one. By the way, we're looking to go into full COVID-19 lockdown again, as of next week. Hope things are looking better on your side.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 23, 2020 17:28:45 GMT
maybe all of this changes in a post-COVID world and if DA4 is poorly received so I guess we'll just have to see... I'm right there with you on that one. By the way, we're looking to go into full COVID-19 lockdown again, as of next week. Hope things are looking better on your side. I'm in Southern California so our status appears to be in a constant state of flux depending on what county you are located in...I wish there was more certainty for sure. Regardless of the good-natured sniping back and forth on this topic, my hope that you and others in your area are safe and, if indeed another lockdown happens, it's effective in curtailing the numbers. Lots of things out of our control at the moment...
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 23, 2020 17:38:31 GMT
I'm in Southern California so our status appears to be in a constant state of flux depending on what county you are located in...I wish there was more certainty for sure. Regardless of the good-natured sniping back and forth on this topic, my hope that you and others in your area are safe and, if indeed another lockdown happens, it's effective in curtailing the numbers. Lots of things out of our control at the moment... I've heard all about California's lockdowns. I hope you and your own are safe and that you are financially secure for the remainder of it. Nobody needs that trouble, brother.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 23, 2020 17:43:03 GMT
So, why is BioWare so "special" to EA to justify this much effort is continuing its existence? Enough to open a new studio space in Edmonton with room for expanding the team? First of all, the new building space was announced years ago, with the move only happening fairly recently. As I've said, I did not claim that Inquisition or Anthem weren't profitable, although I've done a lot of numbers work to say that Andromeda's earnings, on launch, were at around a $5 million US deficit. I'm not going to claim it didn't recoup that amount in the coming weeks or months, but in the 6 week launch window, ME:A did not make back its budget. Which is why Montreal was indeed closed. In addition, we had reports from Angry Joe about Bioware Austin being a ghost town and the Schreier article on Anthem, about how positions in Edmonton are not being restaffed. So I don't think EA is treating Bioware all that nicely and each new title so far has seen Bioware downsized, respectively. So no, I don't think Bioware is "special" to EA, at all. But I don't think you'll agree to any of this, or make any concession yourself. So I don't see the point of arguing on this, further. Angry Joe is a reliable source now? I mean it's strange when it comes to Bioware people have to come with all these reasons that their games didn't do well.
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Post by luketrevelyan on Sept 23, 2020 19:29:07 GMT
I'm not surprised that DAO would be a 7-year slog. Just finished another PT and I'm still amazed at how much thought and care must have gone into that game - establishing the lore, the origins, level design, skills, dialogue options. Nothing feels unfinished. Hopefully DA4 will have a similar feel after all of these years - at the very least the writers should have had plenty of time to craft a great story.
DA2 really had a lot working against it. Not nearly enough time to make a game on the scale of Origins, and yet EA insisted on calling it DA2. Exodus would've been a much better name, though I think no matter what a lot of people would've expected "Origins 2". It was difficult going from playable origins and race options to human-only, from adventuring all over Ferelden to a single city, losing companion armor customization, the faster-paced combat, and adjusting to a voiced protagonist among other things. In some ways, it feels more like a spin-off than the next entry in the series.
I've warmed up to DA2 over the years, especially after the release of DAI. I think now with three games it seems like a fun change of pace from the others, but I wouldn't really want most DA games to be like that. If they had a separate team releasing DA2-sized games (or even smaller) in between larger DA games, that would be great. Some will probably say that's what live service could bring but I don't know.
Adding another year for DAI development seems to have been a wise decision. I remember that announcement being coupled with "but you get race options" and thinking that was an ok trade. I think the general public did like the game so I'm not surprised it would have high sales.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 23, 2020 20:30:52 GMT
So, why is BioWare so "special" to EA to justify this much effort is continuing its existence? Enough to open a new studio space in Edmonton with room for expanding the team? First of all, the new building space was announced years ago, with the move only happening fairly recently. As I've said, I did not claim that Inquisition or Anthem weren't profitable, although I've done a lot of numbers work to say that Andromeda's earnings, on launch, were at around a $5 million US deficit. I'm not going to claim it didn't recoup that amount in the coming weeks or months, but in the 6 week launch window, ME:A did not make back its budget. Which is why Montreal was indeed closed. In addition, we had reports from Angry Joe about Bioware Austin being a ghost town and the Schreier article on Anthem, about how positions in Edmonton are not being restaffed. So I don't think EA is treating Bioware all that nicely and each new title so far has seen Bioware downsized, respectively. So no, I don't think Bioware is "special" to EA, at all. But I don't think you'll agree to any of this, or make any concession yourself. So I don't see the point of arguing on this, further. its a particularly annoying habit that I see around...well around...of posting a long arse spiel and then ending with "but I won't respond'...even more so when responses are continued to be made. In this case it's even more suspicious when the source is a comedy youtuber...who apparently forgot he was a comedy youtuber.
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Post by phoray on Sept 23, 2020 21:02:46 GMT
Joe claims to be a comedy YouTuber? I thought we was just a game video blogger who liked to be silly sometimes but mostly yelled.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 23, 2020 23:06:24 GMT
Joe claims to be a comedy YouTuber? I thought we was just a game video blogger who liked to be silly sometimes but mostly yelled. TBF this might've been my misintrepretation of his schtick rather then what his schtick actually was. I always put him in kind of the tongue in cheek 'reviews' more along the lines of Cinema Sins or Honest Trailers...sure he reviewed the stuff but he had so many gimicks and catch phrases and an almost self parody public image that it was hard to take him fully seriously...and even now I don't think he would be a viable source for hard news.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 24, 2020 1:07:13 GMT
So, we've basically been talking about nothing? Par for the course, I guess.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 24, 2020 1:14:53 GMT
So, we've basically been talking about nothing? Par for the course, I guess. what else are we goingto do for the next 3 years?
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 24, 2020 7:03:12 GMT
I'm losing the thread. Is there a debate about whether EA found DAI's financial performance acceptable? If so, what's the evidence that they did not? Isn't it illegal to misreport profits/losses? Saying "best-selling game" isnt misreporting. It can mean most SKUs sold or most revenue generated.
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Post by SomberXIII on Sept 24, 2020 9:14:05 GMT
So, we've basically been talking about nothing? Par for the course, I guess. You realized now? Why did it take years?
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Sept 24, 2020 9:20:27 GMT
So, we've basically been talking about nothing? Par for the course, I guess. You realized now? Why did it take years? Can I be on your Solstice list?
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