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Post by AnDromedary on Dec 7, 2020 6:24:36 GMT
I think 80% chose destroy and out of the remaining 20% probably 1/2 of them would have been fine with a canonized ending, they lost more than that going to Adromeda. Out of curiosity (and because I recently actually tried to find numbers on this), has BW ever said what the distribution of ending choices is (either by using game telemetry and maybe looking at the first choice of any player account or by polls (from BioWare, not by fans)? I know BW once published statistics on some MET choices but the ending was not part of that, I looked that up.
It would be interesting to get some notion of the actual distribution of ending choices, I think. Is that 80% figure in your quote just your gut feeling or where is that number from?
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Post by Sondergaard on Dec 7, 2020 8:19:17 GMT
Looking on the bright side, he was responsible for the ME3 ending Isn't he also the one that came up with Mass Effect in the first place...? One good idea does not a genius make.
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Post by NotN7 on Dec 7, 2020 8:32:43 GMT
I think 80% chose destroy and out of the remaining 20% probably 1/2 of them would have been fine with a canonized ending, they lost more than that going to Adromeda. Out of curiosity (and because I recently actually tried to find numbers on this), has BW ever said what the distribution of ending choices is (either by using game telemetry and maybe looking at the first choice of any player account or by polls (from BioWare, not by fans)? I know BW once published statistics on some MET choices but the ending was not part of that, I looked that up.
It would be interesting to get some notion of the actual distribution of ending choices, I think. Is that 80% figure in your quote just your gut feeling or where is that number from?
Just like (to me ) Percent of who selected destroyed over what ever is a wild guess less you used software that could track it and prove your point but *shrug* that's me
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Post by shermos on Dec 7, 2020 8:46:00 GMT
Sure... And while we're at it, let's make everyone play as soldier, give everyone only one gun for each class. If there is one thing I'm fiercely against it's canonizing the ending of ME3. If they want to do it, they have to change the ending completely. Destroy is not necessarily the best ending, not even from a storytelling perspective. You know what the best ending is? Shepard failing. The war with the reapers lasts hundreds of years as hinted many times in the games. That means that there is a huge amount of potential there. But obviously no one wants that. Everyone wants their happy Disney ending. Control is also fine as an ending. For one, a great war between the Shepard-controlled reapers and the Leviathans is a great plot device. The only one that really breaks any sort of continuation is Synthesis. And even then, there are ways around that, like, the synthesis slowly being undone over time, i.e. it was not sustainable, and then you ultimately have a similar situation as both control and destroy. There are multiple possibilities, but people prefer to push the little box they prefer. Andromeda was fine as a concept. It was a sequel, and a believable one. It was its execution in terms of game structure, plot and obviously technical aspects, that made it the subpar experience that it is. It has no originality, and that makes it boring. Or you know, people can stop strawmaning Destroy as a "Disney" ending. Because there is nothing Disney about galactic devastation. High EMS destroy is not so bad but still no picnic. The mass relays need to be repaired and many planets have been reduced to rubble. Tens of billions at least are dead. Plus we lose EDI and the Geth, something I would hope is retconned if Destroy were made canon.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
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Post by helios969 on Dec 7, 2020 8:50:39 GMT
I think 80% chose destroy and out of the remaining 20% probably 1/2 of them would have been fine with a canonized ending, they lost more than that going to Adromeda. Out of curiosity (and because I recently actually tried to find numbers on this), has BW ever said what the distribution of ending choices is (either by using game telemetry and maybe looking at the first choice of any player account or by polls (from BioWare, not by fans)? I know BW once published statistics on some MET choices but the ending was not part of that, I looked that up.
It would be interesting to get some notion of the actual distribution of ending choices, I think. Is that 80% figure in your quote just your gut feeling or where is that number from?
I remember that as well but I recall the breakdown to be around 70/20/10 for destroy, control, synthesis. And I'm fairly certain you're correct that it was pre-extended cut.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 7, 2020 8:59:58 GMT
I would be curious how many people that wanted to choose red, on their first playthrough, ended up activating green instead when they had Shepard walk too far towards the green. I say that because shortly after the game was released, a few comments on a youtube video from people mentioned that.
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Origin: helios969
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Post by helios969 on Dec 7, 2020 9:02:48 GMT
As for Casey leaving best of luck to him. As for what it means who knows...but this is what happens...people get old, tired, or bored (sometimes frustrated) and move on. An infusion of youth can bring energy and passion to a project...but they can also be too far removed from the essence of what made the OT awesome. First and foremost I want to play as a bad-azz space marine with that right mix of cool and realism.
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Post by Sondergaard on Dec 7, 2020 9:08:29 GMT
Everyone wants their happy Disney ending. What a load of shit. Why do people desperately try and defend their version of how it should have gone by lying about what people actually wanted (which was a well written and coherent ending that made sense within the universe we have been playing in for three games)? The delusions people choose to believe to validate their own world view never ceases to amaze me.
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Post by traks on Dec 7, 2020 10:07:01 GMT
I would be curious how many people that wanted to choose red, on their first playthrough, ended up activating green instead when they had Shepard walk too far towards the green. I say that because shortly after the game was released, a few comments on a youtube video from people mentioned that. I accidently went to the blue side instead of picking red like I wanted, because I was confused that for the first time in the trilogy I didn't get the dialogue wheel to make that final decision. I honestly thought that I was walking to a console to make my choice when the control ending just kicked in, lol.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 7, 2020 10:28:08 GMT
You know what the best ending is? Shepard failing. The war with the reapers lasts hundreds of years as hinted many times in the games That's a terrible idea, because we already got that game and you know what it was about? Stopping Cerberus. Because you can't fight kilometer long robot space squids on a three man squad TPS. We already got that game and it was barely serviceable. And maybe the point of it is to get a game where everyone you love, fights a losing battle, you're forced to make some hard choices and sacrifices. Basically watch everyone you loved die. Oh wait. That's TLoU2. And if I want to feel empty and depressed again, I'll just play ME3. It does the trick, regardless.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 7, 2020 11:08:04 GMT
You know what the best ending is? Shepard failing. The war with the reapers lasts hundreds of years as hinted many times in the games That's a terrible idea, because we already got that game and you know what it was about? Stopping Cerberus. Because you can't fight kilometer long robot space squids on a three man squad TPS. We already got that game and it was barely serviceable. And maybe the point of it is to get a game where everyone you love, fights a losing battle, you're forced to make some hard choices and sacrifices. Basically watch everyone you loved die. Oh wait. That's TLoU2. And if I want to feel empty and depressed again, I'll just play ME3. It does the trick, regardless. Hey, it wouldn’t be TLOU2 bad. At least in this game it would be characters we are supposed to hate doing things like murdering unarmed prisoners, pregnant women, etc instead of characters we are supposed to root for all for the sake of a preachy moral it goes against. Though I fear after this week many games will be like that if it wins a lot of awards. This Game awards is going to suck if that happens. Well more than it already will.
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Post by Sondergaard on Dec 7, 2020 11:24:15 GMT
I would be curious how many people that wanted to choose red, on their first playthrough, ended up activating green instead when they had Shepard walk too far towards the green. I say that because shortly after the game was released, a few comments on a youtube video from people mentioned that. I accidently went to the blue side instead of picking red like I wanted, because I was confused that for the first time in the trilogy I didn't get the dialogue wheel to make that final decision. I honestly thought that I was walking to a console to make my choice when the control ending just kicked in, lol. Pretty much exactly what happened to me. Wanted to pick Destroy but had no idea what was going on after a 30min (I'm sure it's less but felt like 30mins) exposition dump by a fucking hologram. I mean, WTF? Didn't I just broker peace between the Quarians and Geth? Why can't I tell him that? Or point out the myriad holes in their 'logic'? Nope! What a let down. Thanks, Casey, and goodbye.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 7, 2020 15:50:10 GMT
Hey, it wouldn’t be TLOU2 bad. At least in this game it would be characters we are supposed to hate doing things like murdering unarmed prisoners, pregnant women, etc instead of characters we are supposed to root for all for the sake of a preachy moral it goes against. Though I fear after this week many games will be like that if it wins a lot of awards. This Game awards is going to suck if that happens. Well more than it already will. TLoU2 winning GOTY was predetermined. And it is a real shame that Cyberpunk 2077 wasn't released when it was supposed to. There's no way Cyberpunk would have lost GOTY to that. Now that it launches on the same day as TGA play, unfortunately, there was no way it could have been nominated. One will only have to look to the sales, though, to figure it out. TLoU2 enjoyed tremendous first week sales ... and then it bombed. Not to mention that about 70%, or so I hear, of the Naughty Dog staff quit between Uncharted 4 and TLoU2. And remember when Neil Druckman said that everyone who didn't agree to his vision was fired? 70% turnover? Is that how many people disagreed with Neil's vision, I wonder. Of course, there was also the grueling crunch, but look at what it did to the studio. And to think this man went from vice president, to co-president.
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Post by kalreegar on Dec 7, 2020 16:24:41 GMT
TLoU2 winning GOTY was predetermined. Ghost of Tsushima is a better game, I keep believing!
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Post by ahglock on Dec 7, 2020 16:35:01 GMT
I think 80% chose destroy and out of the remaining 20% probably 1/2 of them would have been fine with a canonized ending, they lost more than that going to Adromeda. Out of curiosity (and because I recently actually tried to find numbers on this), has BW ever said what the distribution of ending choices is (either by using game telemetry and maybe looking at the first choice of any player account or by polls (from BioWare, not by fans)? I know BW once published statistics on some MET choices but the ending was not part of that, I looked that up.
It would be interesting to get some notion of the actual distribution of ending choices, I think. Is that 80% figure in your quote just your gut feeling or where is that number from?
It wasn't just a gut feeling, it was my best recollection of an article I read on it. The problem with the end game statistics is of course people do have multiple endings, so while a smaller % did the other endings, people who did destroy and control for example might consider control their true ending which would pull some from destroy shifting %s.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 7, 2020 16:39:20 GMT
I would be curious how many people that wanted to choose red, on their first playthrough, ended up activating green instead when they had Shepard walk too far towards the green. I say that because shortly after the game was released, a few comments on a youtube video from people mentioned that. The first time I had gone back after the EC I did that and ended up with refuse. The cinematic of the choices got me to think destroy was on the left for some reason. I figured it out when I saw the interact point looked different and went back then refuse kicked in. But, I suppose the reverse could be true as well, maybe people were shooting for control and ended up with destroy.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Dec 7, 2020 16:41:33 GMT
TLoU2 winning GOTY was predetermined. Ghost of Tsushima is a better game, I keep believing! Everyone who isn't a game journalist knows that.
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Post by AnDromedary on Dec 7, 2020 16:53:44 GMT
Out of curiosity (and because I recently actually tried to find numbers on this), has BW ever said what the distribution of ending choices is (either by using game telemetry and maybe looking at the first choice of any player account or by polls (from BioWare, not by fans)? I know BW once published statistics on some MET choices but the ending was not part of that, I looked that up.
It would be interesting to get some notion of the actual distribution of ending choices, I think. Is that 80% figure in your quote just your gut feeling or where is that number from?
It wasn't just a gut feeling, it was my best recollection of an article I read on it. The problem with the end game statistics is of course people do have multiple endings, so while a smaller % did the other endings, people who did destroy and control for example might consider control their true ending which would pull some from destroy shifting %s. Yep, that's why I was writing, if they use telemetry from the game, they might want to use the first choice people made or something. Though, as mikefest said, people may actually have chosen wrong by accident because the setup was really confusing, especially in the original cut. I remember, my first time I wanted to go for destroy but I figured, I could explore the area first, see if there was some hidden better way and of course, I walked into the synthesis beam by accident.
Anyway, I don't think there are reliable statistics out there and I'd be hesitent to trust any third party articles.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 7, 2020 17:18:52 GMT
It wasn't just a gut feeling, it was my best recollection of an article I read on it. The problem with the end game statistics is of course people do have multiple endings, so while a smaller % did the other endings, people who did destroy and control for example might consider control their true ending which would pull some from destroy shifting %s. Yep, that's why I was writing, if they use telemetry from the game, they might want to use the first choice people made or something. Though, as mikefest said, people may actually have chosen wrong by accident because the setup was really confusing in the original cut. I remember, my forst time I wanted to go for destroy but I figured, I could explore the area first, see if there was some hidden better way and of course, I walked into the synthesis beam by accident.
Anyway, I don't think there are reliable statistics out there and I'd be hesitent to trust any third party articles.
Yeah it is hard to know but I suspect its pretty reliable that most picked destroy, especially pre-ec as war assets may have locked them into it for a certain number of gamers. And polls don't work as it self selects into more hard core fans. Still I suspect bioware has the data and could figure out the best option.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Dec 7, 2020 18:05:36 GMT
Or you know, people can stop strawmaning Destroy as a "Disney" ending. Because there is nothing Disney about galactic devastation. High EMS destroy is not so bad but still no picnic. The mass relays need to be repaired and many planets have been reduced to rubble. Tens of billions at least are dead. Plus we lose EDI and the Geth, something I would hope is retconned if Destroy were made canon.
Right, so it's not that bad, but you didn't like the consequences and want to make it more Disney. Okay got it.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
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Post by helios969 on Dec 7, 2020 21:44:16 GMT
Hey, it wouldn’t be TLOU2 bad. At least in this game it would be characters we are supposed to hate doing things like murdering unarmed prisoners, pregnant women, etc instead of characters we are supposed to root for all for the sake of a preachy moral it goes against. Though I fear after this week many games will be like that if it wins a lot of awards. This Game awards is going to suck if that happens. Well more than it already will. TLoU2 winning GOTY was predetermined. And it is a real shame that Cyberpunk 2077 wasn't released when it was supposed to. There's no way Cyberpunk would have lost GOTY to that. Now that it launches on the same day as TGA play, unfortunately, there was no way it could have been nominated. One will only have to look to the sales, though, to figure it out. TLoU2 enjoyed tremendous first week sales ... and then it bombed. Not to mention that about 70%, or so I hear, of the Naughty Dog staff quit between Uncharted 4 and TLoU2. And remember when Neil Druckman said that everyone who didn't agree to his vision was fired? 70% turnover? Is that how many people disagreed with Neil's vision, I wonder. Of course, there was also the grueling crunch, but look at what it did to the studio. And to think this man went from vice president, to co-president. Guess I'm one of the few that actually loved TLOU2. Shrugs.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 7, 2020 21:48:02 GMT
Guess I'm one of the few that actually loved TLOU2. Shrugs. Nobody said you can't or shouldn't love it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 7, 2020 21:52:21 GMT
Guess I'm one of the few that actually loved TLOU2. Shrugs. Nobody said you can't or shouldn't love it. Now whether anyone thought it, on the other hand...
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Post by kalreegar on Dec 7, 2020 23:23:47 GMT
TLoU2 winning GOTY was predetermined. And it is a real shame that Cyberpunk 2077 wasn't released when it was supposed to. There's no way Cyberpunk would have lost GOTY to that. Now that it launches on the same day as TGA play, unfortunately, there was no way it could have been nominated. One will only have to look to the sales, though, to figure it out. TLoU2 enjoyed tremendous first week sales ... and then it bombed. Not to mention that about 70%, or so I hear, of the Naughty Dog staff quit between Uncharted 4 and TLoU2. And remember when Neil Druckman said that everyone who didn't agree to his vision was fired? 70% turnover? Is that how many people disagreed with Neil's vision, I wonder. Of course, there was also the grueling crunch, but look at what it did to the studio. And to think this man went from vice president, to co-president. Guess I'm one of the few that actually loved TLOU2. Shrugs. I enjoyed TLOU2. It's a good game. A great game, maybe. just... not as brilliant and incredible as the critics seem to see. Imo. The script is ambitious, almost always excellent, but incredibly forced. And this is (for me) ha huge flaw. Sometimes I felt like a 1 year old child, tied to the high chair, and forced to swallow a lousy meal with the naughty dog mummy whispering with sweet words "mmmm yummy so good... eat this, good child" ENJOY OUR FUCKING GENIUS MASTERPIECE, YOU STUPID BRAT! To be clear: I don't question that choice.I question the fact that afterwards they did everything and more to make us swallow it. Btw, the last scene of Ghost of Tsushima, to me, was more emotionally and heart-breaking than of all TLOU2.
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Post by Ascend on Dec 8, 2020 1:39:59 GMT
Sure... And while we're at it, let's make everyone play as soldier, give everyone only one gun for each class. If there is one thing I'm fiercely against it's canonizing the ending of ME3. If they want to do it, they have to change the ending completely. Destroy is not necessarily the best ending, not even from a storytelling perspective. You know what the best ending is? Shepard failing. The war with the reapers lasts hundreds of years as hinted many times in the games. That means that there is a huge amount of potential there. But obviously no one wants that. Everyone wants their happy Disney ending. Control is also fine as an ending. For one, a great war between the Shepard-controlled reapers and the Leviathans is a great plot device. The only one that really breaks any sort of continuation is Synthesis. And even then, there are ways around that, like, the synthesis slowly being undone over time, i.e. it was not sustainable, and then you ultimately have a similar situation as both control and destroy. There are multiple possibilities, but people prefer to push the little box they prefer. Andromeda was fine as a concept. It was a sequel, and a believable one. It was its execution in terms of game structure, plot and obviously technical aspects, that made it the subpar experience that it is. It has no originality, and that makes it boring. Or you know, people can stop strawmaning Destroy as a "Disney" ending. Because there is nothing Disney about galactic devastation. So... You don't want destroy as the ending...? Destroy is the Disney ending because it is the most obvious, shallow, primitive and short-sighted choice. Many people want a destroy button that kills the reapers immediately but also doesn't kill synthetics or EDI and additionally makes everything remain at peace forever, where Shepard lives and makes babies and no one dies. No sacrifice at all. It is a Disney ending. Or you know, people can stop strawmaning Destroy as a "Disney" ending. Because there is nothing Disney about galactic devastation. The Green is more of a Disney ending then Destroy is. Like it is now, yes. How people want destroy to actually play out...? No. Everyone wants their happy Disney ending. What a load of shit. Why do people desperately try and defend their version of how it should have gone by lying about what people actually wanted (which was a well written and coherent ending that made sense within the universe we have been playing in for three games)? The delusions people choose to believe to validate their own world view never ceases to amaze me. MEHEM exists for a reason... So while we're at it, what would be your 'perfect' ending to the trilogy...?
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