cuthbertbeckett
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 5, 2020 13:51:55 GMT
Our default stance is to try not to reuse quantum characters. That is characters who can be in a lot of different states after a previous game (especially if they might be dead) - Mark DarrahThat's the only reason I said he probably won't. But hey, Darrah's gone now, maybe they change their philosophy or create another exception This statement is only for major characters but for smaller role like cameos they still bring people who can be dead. And they already did it in DAA, DA 2 & DAI severall times with Zevran, Wynne, Loghain, Alistair or Nathaniel.
So yeah Anders could be back for a cameo if Bioware of course wanted him back but he can´t back as major character.
Same goes for Cullen but he should be in retirement.
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Post by Sifr on Dec 5, 2020 14:24:55 GMT
Our default stance is to try not to reuse quantum characters. That is characters who can be in a lot of different states after a previous game (especially if they might be dead) - Mark Darrah
That's the only reason I said he probably won't. But hey, Darrah's gone now, maybe they change their philosophy or create another exception The only time they seem to make exceptions to this rule is when it's more interesting for the story they're trying to tell.
Like how keeping Leliana alive meant she could play a subsequent role working for the Divine in DA2 and DAI and how in the novel Asunder, keeping Wynne alive meant readers got to see what her relationship was like with her long-lost son Rhys (mentioned in Origins).
So yeah Anders could be back for a cameo if Bioware of course wanted him back but he can´t back as major character.
Same goes for Cullen but he should be in retirement.
Anders very nearly did come back in DAI.
They had some concept art of a wildly bearded and disheveled Anders, who'd seemingly gone insane from his possesion and become like the Mad Hermit from the Brecilian Forest. Obviously they chose to not to have him appear and according to a Hawke that romanced him, he's fine, although still struggles with Justice's influence on him.
I agree that Cullen should remain retired.
They can't really top his role in Inquistion and almost all of his endings managed to wrap up his story one way or another. Even as a fan of the character, I can't think of any real reason to bring him back again, since with the disbandment or merger of the Inquisition with the Chantry, there's no forces left for him to command.
(As for the Shadow Inquisition that's continuing to hunt Solas in secret, that's more geared for people like Leliana than Cullen to run)
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 5, 2020 14:40:56 GMT
The only time they seem to make exceptions to this rule is when it's more interesting for the story they're trying to tell.
Like how keeping Leliana alive meant she could play a subsequent role working for the Divine in DA2 and DAI and how in the novel Asunder, keeping Wynne alive meant readers got to see what her relationship was like with her long-lost son Rhys (mentioned in Origins)
I believe that the next character is Sten as the new Arishok. Of course he could die in the cage offscreen but i always imagined that someone else let him go. Sten/Arishok short Stenshok is too cool to have him not in all world states. I am aware of this but to be honest it would have made one of three desert levels more interessing if he had showed up.
Just for fanservice but after Ellis recent behavior Cullen shouldn´t be back ever in a DA game. Also the character Cullen should be view on its own so please Bioware don´t kill him off because his voice actor from one language is crazy.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 5, 2020 16:23:27 GMT
I wonder why Bioware and EA hasn´t already removed it from Youtube. Ellis doesn´t own Cullen or any other DA content.
I don´t like to quote myself but for this i make an exception.
Ellis crazy video as Cullen himself is no longer available. So yeah without any doubt Ellis won´t be working for Bioware and mostly likely EA again. Maybe his whole voiceover (actor i doubt) career is done. Who would hire this guy especially for games or shows for children?
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Post by Sifr on Dec 5, 2020 16:43:38 GMT
I believe that the next character is Sten as the new Arishok. Of course he could die in the cage offscreen but i always imagined that someone else let him go. Sten/Arishok short Stenshok is too cool to have him not in all world states. Yeah, as the Darkspawn swarmed on Lothering, it's easy to imagine that Sten was either released by someone showing mercy or he busted himself out of the cage (which I reckon he could have done at any time if he'd really wanted to). From there, he could have tracked down his sword the same way we did, allowing him to return home with his honour intact. Maybe in that scenario, he atoned for the murders he committed by protecting some refugees from Darkspawn along the way? Whatever the reason given, you're right that Sten as the Arishok is far too cool to pass up just because some people didn't recruit/save him. Maybe a caveat to the quantum character rule should be that aside from plot important deaths (Cailan, Duncan or Arl Howe), any potential deaths in Origins will necessarily count going forward. DA2 and DAI already seem to operate under this rule anyway with the amount of "dead" characters that still manage to show up alive.
Just for fanservice but after Ellis recent behavior Cullen shouldn´t be back ever in a DA game. Also the character Cullen should be view on its own so please Bioware don´t kill him off because his voice actor from one language is crazy.
If Cullen was told to start taking lyrium again, the Trespasser epilogues claim he ultimately succumbs to lyrium madness and Scout Harding possibly mercy killed him to end his suffering. That they gave him at least one bad ending where he's dead, makes me think that he's not likely to return.
(Same is probably true of the Iron Bull as well, which sucks because I'd love to see Freddie Prinze Jr come back, you could tell he had a lot of fun playing him).
Also a minor quibble, but calling him "crazy" if he indeed does have some sort of mental health issues might not be the best thing.
Personally I don't mind (I've got Aspergers and I'm definitely a little bonkers), but I know that some people with mental health issues might object to that word as being insensitive, since it seems like people are either treating their problems as unimportant or somehow their fault. Not rebuking you or anything, just giving a friendly heads up that some people might take that word the wrong way.
Not that any mental health issues are an excuse for his recent behaviour, but if he does need help, maybe it'd be better to try to give it to him rather than getting on his case and causing him to spiral out even further. If something has set him off this badly, maybe we shouldn't try to set him off more, I don't think anyone wants him to turn up missing again.
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Post by parsival on Dec 5, 2020 17:40:35 GMT
The original Kotaku article certainly betrays the political prejudices of its author, who casually labels Jordan Peterson a bigot. Greg Ellis seems to be implying that he was, or was about to be, 'cancelled' by Bioware for his own political opinions. It will be interesting to see what comes out in the wash over the coming weeks.
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 5, 2020 18:03:44 GMT
The original Kotaku article certainly betrays the political prejudices of its author, who casually labels Jordan Peterson a bigot. Greg Ellis seems to be implying that he was, or was about to be, 'cancelled' by Bioware for his own political opinions. It will be interesting to see what comes out in the wash over the coming weeks. Darrah and Ellis had a ‘spat’ a couple months ago, when Ellis tweeted something about the next DA, making it seems like he was inside the project already, and people asked devs, Darrah included, if they’d hire people with certain views again (I don’t think if they specifically asked about Ellis. Darrah’s response triggered/irritated Ellis. To be perfectly honest, I don’t see how Ellis was being ‘cancelled’, given that we have no clue if Cullen is going to be present, which I personally think it’s unlikely. In this case, there’s no reason to claim you’ve been cancelled. You can very well decide to not work more with someone you don’t agree with. Ellis doesn’t have a contract with BioWare, so he’s not entitled to being hired again, as any VA that worked with BioWare. And regardless, given other devs’ stance on the matter (and EA doesn’t seem to be overall that different, even if less evident), I doubt that Darrah’s presence or absence changes much. I’m not going to talk about Ellis’ views since mods told us already that we shouldn’t, but searching online and on twitter you can find problematic stuffs her goes beyond political/social views.
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Post by sageoflife on Dec 5, 2020 19:21:25 GMT
With the move to Tevinter and the way Trespasser ended I thought it was pretty obvious that Cullen wouldn't be appearing regardless of whatever is going on with his actor.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 5, 2020 19:35:21 GMT
Whatever the reason given, you're right that Sten as the Arishok is far too cool to pass up just because some people didn't recruit/save him. Also old videogame rule if don´t saw one dying well he is not dead.
Too be honest i am fine with most of the retcons. Leliana never bothered me because her death is pretty hidden and optional in DAO. Oghren i never have killed. Morrigan was of course not dead if you knifed her in Witch Hunt and Samson was at best an offscreen death in DA 2. The only retcon i don´t like is Anders & Justice. Maybe Anders had worked on his own. but with Justice pretty problematic.
I believe that Bioware has learned from the controversial retcons and make it easier for themselves. I mean Calpernia will come back in DA 4 but come on she wasn´t dead after the fight with the Inquisitor and his / her party.
He still could come back as the Iron Bull for a cameo or with the replacement system (Alistair, Loghain or Stroud in DAI or ME 3 Wrex or Wreav) But to be honest i doubt that we will see much of Bull in DA 4.
Sorry but i believe that Ellis has more problems right now than that i called him crazy. I mean his video as Cullen not himself gets him in real trouble. (Also i find it interessing that no one has posted Mark Darrahs Twitter response to this topic)
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Post by snapdragon112 on Dec 5, 2020 19:43:50 GMT
The original Kotaku article certainly betrays the political prejudices of its author, who casually labels Jordan Peterson a bigot. Greg Ellis seems to be implying that he was, or was about to be, 'cancelled' by Bioware for his own political opinions. It will be interesting to see what comes out in the wash over the coming weeks. I mean Jordan Peterson thinks that women shouldn’t complain about sexual harassment in the workplace if they wear makeup, so I don’t think ‘bigot’ is unfair.
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Post by Solas on Dec 5, 2020 20:56:02 GMT
Ellis has a history of deliberately implying misleading things (like that he's in DA4 or that he had an upcoming DA-related announcement to make) on Twitter before. Given that I can't take his implication that he was or was about to be 'cancelled' by BW seriously.
I think Cullen was never coming back anyway, recast or no. His story is over, he's done.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 5, 2020 22:22:33 GMT
I think Cullen was never coming back anyway, recast or no. His story is over, he's done. For major story parts i agree but regardless of the whole Ellis situation Bioware can still use Cullen in a (small) cameo role or mention him offscreen in dialogue. I mean if Inquisitor shows up in DA 4 Bioware have to explain what happen to Cullen if married in one sentence.
I would prefer that Cullen never show up in visual form because recasting Cullen is for any reasons not worth it in my opinion but they can use Cullen as a character for some references like the DAO Warden who also never shows up in person.
My only wish is that Bioware won´t kill Cullen off or made him pretty unlikeable because of Ellis behavior. Cullen and his voice actors in other languages or even his writers don´t deserve this.
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Post by Solas on Dec 5, 2020 22:44:06 GMT
yh I don't count a war table letter or a ambient dialogue reference or a "he's having fun in the sun in Hawaii" explanation line as coming back.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Dec 6, 2020 3:09:33 GMT
If BioWare wants to bring back a character but can't get the actor back or doesn't want them back for whatever reason then I'm sure they'd just recast.
This isn't live action tv/movies, it's not like we wouldn't still recognise them. I've had animated shows and video games recast a character on me before and it was fine. One time it was a scheduling issue, another time there was a death, they got people in who could do a similar voice for character consistency. No big deal.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Dec 6, 2020 4:55:24 GMT
Ellis has a history of deliberately implying misleading things (like that he's in DA4 or that he had an upcoming DA-related announcement to make) on Twitter before. I remember the missing thing, but yeah forgot about him stringing DA fans along on twitter clearly implying that he was going to deliver a special announcement--and then it just turned out to be some tacky, non-DA, self-promotion thing. When Ellis reappeared and started bitching at the guy who was concerned about him missing, it was awkward but in the end everyone was relieved he was okay. But he started to lose good will after that "announcement" fiasco. Dude seems like a real drama whore. Disappointing to learn he's an alt right chud, too.
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Post by mugwump on Dec 6, 2020 9:52:11 GMT
Just recast the role to someone else, and let the bigot stew in his filth. Venomous much, Hanako?
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Dec 6, 2020 10:42:07 GMT
Adam Howden would be the obvious choice since he voiced Anders/Justice in DA2, but this thread is pointless, we might as well make a thread for every other BW actor/staff and their opinions and whether or not they're returning.
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Post by Iddy on Dec 7, 2020 18:59:30 GMT
The original Kotaku article certainly betrays the political prejudices of its author, who casually labels Jordan Peterson a bigot. Greg Ellis seems to be implying that he was, or was about to be, 'cancelled' by Bioware for his own political opinions. It will be interesting to see what comes out in the wash over the coming weeks. I mean Jordan Peterson thinks that women shouldn’t complain about sexual harassment in the workplace if they wear makeup, so I don’t think ‘bigot’ is unfair. He is also called a white supremacist even though he's got videos solely dedicated to condemning Hitler, so... yeah. I wouldn't instantly believe that sort of claim. Honestly, I'm usually skeptical of any "OMG bigot" accusations until I get to see evidence, since that is said so freely these days. That is a pretty good argument as far as Ellis is concerned, though I don't believe that partisan hiring is an ethical practice if that is what Darrah's response implied.
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Post by Iddy on Dec 7, 2020 19:01:46 GMT
Anyhow, I'm just glad that Cullen's story is already wrapped up, so this won't really affect the series.
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Post by swbrandt on Dec 8, 2020 0:16:49 GMT
I saw the exchange between Darrah and Ellis on Twitter, and I've got to say, as a manager myself, I found Ellis's comments deeply unprofessional. If I saw something like that on the Twitter feed of a potential hire, I would throw the resume straight in the trash. I'm not going to hire someone who openly feuds with his project manager in a public forum. I can and have hired people who have very different views than me, on politics and all sorts of other issues. But unprofessional and openly disrespectful commentary is a hard pass.
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Post by turianlannister on Dec 8, 2020 2:01:09 GMT
Just recast the role to someone else, and let the bigot stew in his filth. Like how Manu Intiraymi attacked another Star Trek actor on twitter and his character ended up being recast and killed off on Picard In case anyone is wondering someone uploaded the video to youtube. Ellis goes on a rant against SJWs in character as Cullen
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Post by githcheater on Dec 8, 2020 3:20:19 GMT
Just recast the role to someone else, and let the bigot stew in his filth. Like how Manu Intiraymi attacked another Star Trek actor on twitter and his character ended up being recast and killed off on Picard In case anyone is wondering someone uploaded the video to youtube. Ellis goes on a rant against SJWs in character as Cullen Voices in my head? Oh Joy
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Post by turianlannister on Dec 8, 2020 16:25:35 GMT
Like how Manu Intiraymi attacked another Star Trek actor on twitter and his character ended up being recast and killed off on Picard In case anyone is wondering someone uploaded the video to youtube. Ellis goes on a rant against SJWs in character as Cullen Voices in my head? Oh Joy Voices in my Head is a voice actor podcast he does, he gets various voice actors, iirc he's gotten Jennifer Hale and Steve Blum
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Post by Sah291 on Dec 8, 2020 17:45:09 GMT
The original Kotaku article certainly betrays the political prejudices of its author, who casually labels Jordan Peterson a bigot. Greg Ellis seems to be implying that he was, or was about to be, 'cancelled' by Bioware for his own political opinions. It will be interesting to see what comes out in the wash over the coming weeks. Yeah I agree. I read the Twitter exchanges, and listened to several episodes of his latest podcast, to try to get a sense of his perspective and side of things...I'd say, yeah, he is/was already anticipating as much when he made those comments. However it does look like it was a choice on his part, in so much as he felt it was important to speak out, and that was a choice and consequence he was willing to live with. To read his side of things, he was upset that Darrah, allegedly, did not support him, when a twitter mob (according to Ellis) came after him libeling him and demanding that he never work again. That is, of course, only one side of the story. But I would say, he is aware of the potential career consequences in the industry, yeah, that much is clear. Just my personal opinion here, his public comments on twitter may hurt his career and future employment with Bioware and other developers..but may not in other potential spheres...which he seems passionate about and interested in pursuing. So I guess, I wish them both well. I don't see any issues with recasting Cullen if they need to, if that character needs to make a cameo for some reason, it doesn't mean they need to kill off the character. However I wasn't expecting him to make much of a return anyway, given DA4 will have a new protagonist, etc. A cameo or mention at the most, if that.
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Post by andydandymandy on Dec 8, 2020 19:40:55 GMT
To me, if he was actually expecting to lose work and have people in the entertainment industry to distance themselves from him because of his "outspoken views", why did he expect Darrah to defend him just because he worked on Dragon Age games? Did he not understand the position Darrah was in at the time? As the producer of Dragon Age he had to publicly represent the brand. He wasn't going to go out of his way to defend Ellis after Ellis alienated himself from a lot of the fanbase for Dragon Age, and likely a lot of the people who work on the franchise (such as Patrick Weekes, who if you look at his views he's expressed they seem very antithetical to what Ellis seems to believe in). That just wasn't going to happen. If he really took that personally, he should have more self-awareness.
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