Kabraxal
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Post by Kabraxal on Dec 23, 2020 19:13:32 GMT
It just got to steam, the only people who still give a crap about it are the people who like it already. Metacritic has it sitting at a 5. Metacritic has been garbage for a looooong time. Not sure which is worse to go to for opinions, it or youtube. Of course, people bring up youtube videos like they are the purveyor of objective truth. I think it’s safer to say professional reviews are closer to the overall consensus. Sad that professional critics have become more trustworthy for reviews than “fan” reviews. Fan reviews used to be reliable. Well, outside of the Nintendo cult.
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Vox
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Post by Vox on Dec 24, 2020 18:50:47 GMT
I waited eight years for a retcon or actual explanation of the endings and hiw the galaxy is affected by that.
Andromeda I actually really, really liked. The premise of waking up 600 years in a totally different galaxy, everyone you knew long dead etc..that was a terrifying and fascinating concept and idea for me. And Ryder is great (Femryder, of course)
And I think the Andromeda-Galaxy with the mysterious Remnant and the Kett Empire can make for good new villains and mysteries to solve. Would love to go back there somehow...
As for the endings...easiest way would be to declare one canon, sure.
But why not all three?
Leave it ambigous what Shepard really chose, but declare the outcome on board of the citadel all to have happened. Though not as "complete" as in each ending. With that I mean:
Destroy, yes, many Reapers got destroyed, not all though. Many Portals were destroyed, not all though, much AI was destroyed, not all though. Many planets were cut off, other remained connected via the portals. Still a devasted galaxy, but not as thoroughly as in the "true" destroy red ending
Merge ending. Also happened, to some extend. Many creatures/lifeforms close to the Citadel and its effect were indeed transformed into new Borg-like creatures like in the green ending. But not everything in the entire Galaxy. This could also be a nice way to introduce a new kidn of species/faction or even antagonist.
Control the blue. And this also happened, and could leave the door open for a Shepard-return. going blue meant Shepard got "uploaded" into a computer or some shite...don't remember exactly anymore. And instead of what Star-Child said Shepard was not getting control of all Reapers (manygot destroyed or just went haywire etc), but he just ended up ... dormant, her mind stored away. ready for ME4/5 to let us create a new body for Shepard, and also neatly explaining why we have to learn all skills anew...
Of course, the last bit ... yeah, it is a little too mcuh like ME2 in the beginning I guess. But I can't help it, I want her back as long as Jen Hale is around...
The above way of doing things is also not unique, Bethesda did that before with the many endings of Daggerfall ... which, uh, got confusing and even in game is adressed as a paradox not many people can understand...but Elder Scrolls have magic. Mass Effect does not, but then its only three endings to consolidate...
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 24, 2020 18:53:19 GMT
Because the "who knows what really happened" angle is boring. Especially since a post destroy ending Milky Way is a great place for adventure.
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Spectr61
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: Spectr61
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Post by Spectr61 on Dec 28, 2020 2:49:09 GMT
Because the "who knows what really happened" angle is boring. Especially since a post destroy ending Milky Way is a great place for adventure. This. MW 99% unexplored, Reapers dead. Get out there!
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cptdata
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Post by cptdata on Dec 28, 2020 4:12:01 GMT
Because the "who knows what really happened" angle is boring. Especially since a post destroy ending Milky Way is a great place for adventure.
All three endings simply don't work together.
DESTRUCTION: well, I doubt Shepard got all Reapers. I'm not sure if their entire armada made it to the Milky Way (I really doubt it, tbh). Also the effects of the Crucible may be restricted to a certain distance from each Mass Relay. So there's still an armada in dark space, waiting for a chance to return to the scene (and may even decide to wait a couple of millenia to ensure that occurence of Shepard really died) as well as an unknown number of Reapers falling asleep in the galaxy itself.
Some Reapers got outright destroyed by the destruction pulse, others seemed to "deactivate" only. Not sure if they're really dead or only sleeping (without active indoctrination systems).
CONTROL: is right out. A galaxy protected by Reapers may become a peaceful place (if Shepard!AI keeps control), but its also a boring place too since any given problem can be dealt via Reaper. Pirates? Reapers. Some Krogran warlord trying to take vengeance on Salarians? Reapers. Batarians turn against mankind again? Reapers. Some Asari don't get the message and are still hiding prothean tech? Reapers! I don't think I wanna live in such galaxy. In best case it's a boring place (as I said), in worst case it's a dictatorship. Behave, or ... Reapers!
SYNTHESIS: kinda works if Bioware adjusts the idea. First things first: the line between organics and synthetics don't need to be blurred in a way neither organics nor synthetics are separate things anymore. Also I really don't like the idea Reaper-produced monsters like husks and cannibals are suddenly self-aware and realize what they are. Sometimes death is the more merciful option.
In best case, synthesis simply means "organics have a deep understanding of synthetics and vice versa". They not only tolerate each other but both sides accept each other as species. That doesn't mean a synthetic and an organic can produce any offspring of some sorts. No brainwashing, no forced melting ... no. Organics remain organic, synthetics remain synthetics, they don't know everything in the galaxy (like it was hinted in the epilogue), but they understand each other. However I'm not convinced Bioware will tune down that ending to work as described above. So in worst case we end with some sort of galaxy-spanning cyborg-collective and Reapers guarding the entire thing.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 28, 2020 9:16:26 GMT
All three endings simply don't work together. I'm not asking them to.
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 27, 2021 20:00:08 GMT
MEA was hated by a minority of loud people on the internet. Doesn't mean it was roundly hated. If BW can find a way to at least someone appease fans of both, why wouldn't they do it? And with devs from the MET on board, we have a better shot at a game that would appeal to everyone. I loved Ryder. I truly believe Ryder was meant to be the polar opposite of Shepard. Maybe that was a mistake but I can imagine a more seasoned Ryder would appear in any future games with him. Hopefully the change in personality is left as a choice. I don’t want Ryder to become some bitter try hard like other people seem to want the PC to be. I wasn't really thinking he'd be a different person so much as a commander in the field. I want the person who people follow and respect but can still joke around. I honestly believe Ryder has already proven himself or herself. But, yeah, "Butcher of Torfan" vs "Hero of Elysium" isn't too much to ask for.
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 27, 2021 20:02:21 GMT
It just got to steam, the only people who still give a crap about it are the people who like it already. Metacritic has it sitting at a 5. Metacritic has been garbage for a looooong time. Not sure which is worse to go to for opinions, it or youtube. Of course, people bring up youtube videos like they are the purveyor of objective truth. I think it’s safer to say professional reviews are closer to the overall consensus. Sad that professional critics have become more trustworthy for reviews than “fan” reviews. Fan reviews used to be reliable. Well, outside of the Nintendo cult. The good thing about the Steam reviews are that it has people who are disconnected from the whiners honestly looking at the product. They "missed out" on the crybabies making YT vidoes. Sure, dislike a game, no problem. They took it to an entirely different level. Not sure I think professional reviews are trustworthy. They follow the socio-political agenda of the day.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 27, 2021 20:03:51 GMT
Oh no, it wasn't hated by a vocal small minority. When you have videos like this out there with nearly 10M views with 231K likes, that's KILLER. The gaming community at large hated Andromeda and BioWare would be wise to keep away from it with a 10 ft pole. There's a reason there's been no DLCs for Andromeda you guys. Besides, the game DOES have horrible ratings on pretty much any ratings website. You could buy Andromeda for like 5$ a few months after its release. I say this with love. I didn't hate it and I became a diehard fan of the MET when I first started playing it in 2016.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 27, 2021 20:07:24 GMT
Nothing special. If relays can be rebuilt so can geth. If the original programming is present over the Reaper software, it could work. The quarians though? that's an entire race that can either be dead or alive. Liara could also be dead but there she is. BW is probably shooting for something as close to a "best ending" that they can. I'd say saving the quarians and rebuilding the geth would work along those lines. Also, weren't geth aboard the quarian ark to Andromeda? Never read the book on the subject so not sure but I thought I'd heard it. If that's true, the geth very much exist. Given the "we are all geth" it means if a geth lives, they all live - or could.
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Post by Radec on Jan 27, 2021 20:55:21 GMT
The quarians though? that's an entire race that can either be dead or alive. Liara could also be dead but there she is. BW is probably shooting for something as close to a "best ending" that they can. I'd say saving the quarians and rebuilding the geth would work along those lines. Also, weren't geth aboard the quarian ark to Andromeda? Never read the book on the subject so not sure but I thought I'd heard it. If that's true, the geth very much exist. Given the "we are all geth" it means if a geth lives, they all live - or could. The book (Annihilation) didn't include the geth, but given the plot was centered around a virus that only affects organics it's not out of the question they just stayed hidden. They're software, probably hiding in the blender. Or in the quarians' masturbation programs. Even without Andromeda this is easy to hand wave, though. If Legion dies at the collector base, you meet a new version of it restored from backup on the Dreadnought (but with no memory of ME2, since it never reconnected to the hive mind to upload those memories). Geth can be rebuilt, just not as the same "individuals". "Whatever is created can be recreated"- Admiral Xen As for the quarians themselves, it's pretty easy to say there were enough mercs, pirates, slaves etc. who didnt return to the fleet to get killed. Tali even says in ME1 that some never return from pilgrimage, and that they exile their criminals in ME2. After the war, they all use SuitRatSingles.com to find each other and repopulate. EZ
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 27, 2021 20:59:47 GMT
The quarians though? that's an entire race that can either be dead or alive. Liara could also be dead but there she is. BW is probably shooting for something as close to a "best ending" that they can. I'd say saving the quarians and rebuilding the geth would work along those lines. Also, weren't geth aboard the quarian ark to Andromeda? Never read the book on the subject so not sure but I thought I'd heard it. If that's true, the geth very much exist. Given the "we are all geth" it means if a geth lives, they all live - or could. To be fair, the only outcomes where Liara is dead also see the galaxy virtually scoured of life due to the relays exploding, I believe. Be pretty hard to get a sequel from that outcome. It's never been confirmed that geth were on the ark, but it's been highly speculated that they are on at least one of them. Especially given it was their tech that made it possible to observe the Helios system to begin with. Heck it's speculated that the Benefactor may in fact have been the geth!
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Post by themikefest on Jan 27, 2021 23:06:56 GMT
To be fair, the only outcomes where Liara is dead also see the galaxy virtually scoured of life due to the relays exploding, I believe. Be pretty hard to get a sequel from that outcome. If ems is between 1750-2000, she can be killed by Harbinger. The epilogue shows the galaxy rebuilt. Hackett will have one line of dialogue that is different from higher ems saying it will take longer to rebuild.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 27, 2021 23:43:37 GMT
The quarians though? that's an entire race that can either be dead or alive. Liara could also be dead but there she is. BW is probably shooting for something as close to a "best ending" that they can. I'd say saving the quarians and rebuilding the geth would work along those lines. Also, weren't geth aboard the quarian ark to Andromeda? Never read the book on the subject so not sure but I thought I'd heard it. If that's true, the geth very much exist. Given the "we are all geth" it means if a geth lives, they all live - or could. Liara and James have the strictest requirements to get killed, and all it takes to guarantee one faction dying on Rannoch is making a wrong choice in ME2.
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ahglock
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Jan 28, 2021 0:31:19 GMT
Liara could also be dead but there she is. BW is probably shooting for something as close to a "best ending" that they can. I'd say saving the quarians and rebuilding the geth would work along those lines. Also, weren't geth aboard the quarian ark to Andromeda? Never read the book on the subject so not sure but I thought I'd heard it. If that's true, the geth very much exist. Given the "we are all geth" it means if a geth lives, they all live - or could. Liara and James have the strictest requirements to get killed, and all it takes to guarantee one faction dying on Rannoch is making a wrong choice in ME2. Right choice..
1st play through of ME3 was brutal, while I had deleted the info in Me2 Wrex was a live so I had to shoot Mordin in the back. Which I guess technically I did not need to as it would have failed on its own, I just did not know that. Then I have t kill Wrex. Brutal, but what my Shepard thought needed to be done. Emotionally draining, all in all I prefer no Wrex in Me2/3, delete the cure, convince Mordin to sabotage it.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 28, 2021 0:34:16 GMT
Liara and James have the strictest requirements to get killed, and all it takes to guarantee one faction dying on Rannoch is making a wrong choice in ME2. Right choice..
1st play through of ME3 was brutal, while I had deleted the info in Me2 Wrex was a live so I had to shoot Mordin in the back. Which I guess technically I did not need to as it would have failed on its own, I just did not know that. Then I have t kill Wrex. Brutal, but what my Shepard thought needed to be done. Emotionally draining, all in all I prefer no Wrex in Me2/3, delete the cure, convince Mordin to sabotage it.
Well, by wrong choice within the scope of ME2, it would be whichever option results in a death and potentially locks out certain options later. If you selected Tali as second team leader, congrats, you done fucked up lol
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ahglock
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Jan 28, 2021 0:40:42 GMT
Right choice..
1st play through of ME3 was brutal, while I had deleted the info in Me2 Wrex was a live so I had to shoot Mordin in the back. Which I guess technically I did not need to as it would have failed on its own, I just did not know that. Then I have t kill Wrex. Brutal, but what my Shepard thought needed to be done. Emotionally draining, all in all I prefer no Wrex in Me2/3, delete the cure, convince Mordin to sabotage it.
Well, by wrong choice within the scope of ME2, it would be whichever option results in a death and potentially locks out certain options later. If you selected Tali as second team leader, congrats, you done fucked up lol Sure, but either of the cure choices locks out options, so neither is right or wrong on its own, its just right or wrong based on what you want to happen in ME3. So if you want to cure the genophage, keep it, recruit wrex(almost everyone does)and don't kill wrex(most people don't).You want to sabotage it well you always "can" but the only way to do that without having to shoot mordin in the back is no wrex/don't keep the research. So keeping the research locks out saving mordin. And Mordin is ++ awesome.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 28, 2021 0:49:39 GMT
Well, by wrong choice within the scope of ME2, it would be whichever option results in a death and potentially locks out certain options later. If you selected Tali as second team leader, congrats, you done fucked up lol Sure, but either of the cure choices locks out options, so neither is right or wrong on its own, its just right or wrong based on what you want to happen in ME3. So if you want to cure the genophage, keep it, recruit wrex(almost everyone does)and don't kill wrex(most people don't).You want to sabotage it well you always "can" but the only way to do that without having to shoot mordin in the back is no wrex/don't keep the research. So keeping the research locks out saving mordin. And Mordin is ++ awesome.
Strictly within the scope of ME2, any decision Shepard makes that results in the loss of a crew member is basically the wrong choice. It’s not even a matter of what we want to happen in the story or some philosophical or moral issue, because there’s no tradeoff to consider or some other quandary that makes us decide what’s best for the greater good. It’s just the Commander selecting the wrong person for the job, and that person biting the dust as a result (in this case it’s especially wrong with Tali since she lost her teams twice lol).
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Post by Iakus on Jan 28, 2021 1:41:19 GMT
To be fair, the only outcomes where Liara is dead also see the galaxy virtually scoured of life due to the relays exploding, I believe. Be pretty hard to get a sequel from that outcome. If ems is between 1750-2000, she can be killed by Harbinger. The epilogue shows the galaxy rebuilt. Hackett will have one line of dialogue that is different from higher ems saying it will take longer to rebuild. Somehow, I knew that you would know this
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 28, 2021 5:24:27 GMT
Yeah Mike’s basically the Watcher of Mass Effect lol
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jan 28, 2021 14:29:52 GMT
Yeah Mike’s basically the Watcher of Mass Effect lol Well, yeah, and his hatred of Liara is legendary
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Post by themikefest on Jan 28, 2021 14:34:58 GMT
Yeah Mike’s basically the Watcher of Mass Effect lol Well, yeah, and his hatred of Liara is legendary Just as your hatred of the ME3 ending is legendary.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on Jan 28, 2021 14:52:15 GMT
Metacritic has been garbage for a looooong time. Not sure which is worse to go to for opinions, it or youtube. Of course, people bring up youtube videos like they are the purveyor of objective truth. I think it’s safer to say professional reviews are closer to the overall consensus. Sad that professional critics have become more trustworthy for reviews than “fan” reviews. Fan reviews used to be reliable. Well, outside of the Nintendo cult. The good thing about the Steam reviews are that it has people who are disconnected from the whiners honestly looking at the product. They "missed out" on the crybabies making YT vidoes. Sure, dislike a game, no problem. They took it to an entirely different level. Not sure I think professional reviews are trustworthy. They follow the socio-political agenda of the day. That’s why it’s sad. “Professional” reviews are not trustworthy at all and fan reviews have somehow become worse the past few years.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,879 Likes: 49,335
inherit
402
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Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,335
Iakus
20,879
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jan 28, 2021 18:29:02 GMT
Well, yeah, and his hatred of Liara is legendary Just as your hatred of the ME3 ending is legendary. Yea, I own that
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,879 Likes: 49,335
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,335
Iakus
20,879
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jan 28, 2021 18:31:19 GMT
The good thing about the Steam reviews are that it has people who are disconnected from the whiners honestly looking at the product. They "missed out" on the crybabies making YT vidoes. Sure, dislike a game, no problem. They took it to an entirely different level. Not sure I think professional reviews are trustworthy. They follow the socio-political agenda of the day. That’s why it’s sad. “Professional” reviews are not trustworthy at all and fan reviews have somehow become worse the past few years. The trick is to find fans who's views align with yours. I mean, different people have different criteria for what makes for a good game. Look for the reviews that specify WHY they give a thumbs-up or thumbs down. The more articulate the better.
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