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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 1, 2021 17:21:48 GMT
Can't she die on the beam run?
Yeah its pretty low EMS, so I think it lines up with a jacked up galaxy mentioned. Basically max 2000 ems. You can choose destroy or control as opposed to it being chosen for you based on your end ME2 decision, but earth is toast and I think whether or not its control or destroy the relays are super jacked up.
Even so, she could be dead in my world state. BW has chosen a canon state. That means they can do so for anything at all.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 1, 2021 17:39:27 GMT
Yeah its pretty low EMS, so I think it lines up with a jacked up galaxy mentioned. Basically max 2000 ems. You can choose destroy or control as opposed to it being chosen for you based on your end ME2 decision, but earth is toast and I think whether or not its control or destroy the relays are super jacked up.
Even so, she could be dead in my world state. BW has chosen a canon state. That means they can do so for anything at all. Yup and they picked excluding everyone dies ending from ME2 as well. Everyone excuses it as an obvious oh well they had to in order for their to be a ME3, but the same can be said for ME4 the endings are too divergent they needed a canon in order to have a ME4.
And lets face it there almost certainly will be a canon. They can try to muck it up with varied codex entries and dialogue answers I guess but odds are they need set answers for which ending, what happened to the quarians/krogan etc. But given how different things most likely would be, how many huge choices they'd need to account for a canon choice just is easier and probably better. Unless they want to effectively remove the MW from he game so you don't have to see the answers, no Krogan, no quarians, but hey a different dialogue choice about what happened to them. But what would be the point of returning to the MW if they remove all of it to hide what happened.
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Post by traks on Feb 1, 2021 17:48:16 GMT
Even so, she could be dead in my world state. BW has chosen a canon state. That means they can do so for anything at all. Yup and they picked excluding everyone dies ending from ME2 as well. Everyone excuses it as an obvious oh well they had to in order for their to be a ME3, but the same can be said for ME4 the endings are too divergent they needed a canon in order to have a ME4.
And lets face it there almost certainly will be a canon. They can try to muck it up with varied codex entries and dialogue answers I guess but odds are they need set answers for which ending, what happened to the quarians/krogan etc. But given how different things most likely would be, how many huge choices they'd need to account for a canon choice just is easier and probably better. Unless they want to effectively remove the MW from he game so you don't have to see the answers, no Krogan, no quarians, but hey a different dialogue choice about what happened to them. But what would be the point of returning to the MW if they remove all of it to hide what happened.
There will always be Krogan and Quarians in any world state. The Geth have already shown no intention to follow Quarian survivors around the whole galaxy in an attempt to kill the last one off and Krogan will always keep searching for a cure whether Shepard helps them or not. These decisions only mean that the species probably won't be on the forefront of any conflict in any future game, but they'll always be there, so these aren't really that critical for the future games. Anyway: I expect BioWare to pick the world state they find the most interesting to tell the next story and don't even attempt to continue with save file imports of ME3. The next one will likely be a story with a clean slate for every player.
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Post by Radec on Feb 1, 2021 23:13:25 GMT
Yeah, having quarians and krogan (along with any other species that could be in trouble based on what can happen to them or their homeworlds e.g.rachni, hanar, batarian, elcor etc.) around regardless of your choices in ME3 is waaaaay less of an ass pull on the lore than flying to Andromeda was.
Krogan live 1500+ years. They'll be around a while even if they stop breeding entirely. Quarians already had a practice of exiling criminals and not all of them returned from pilgrimage or cared about their fleet, anyway. Geth can be restored from archival memories which means you only need a small group to have survived somewhere out of the range of the Quarian Fleet/Destroy wave. Rachni had another queen egg floating around just like in ME1, and so on.
A post production slideshow with almost no context given is also easy to retcon. These sorts of choices can be accounted for in a codex or something. Big green brainwash wave and Refuse are the main big problems that are mutually exclusive with all other worldstates.
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 2, 2021 0:20:44 GMT
Unless they want to effectively remove the MW from he game so you don't have to see the answers, no Krogan, no quarians, but hey a different dialogue choice about what happened to them. But what would be the point of returning to the MW if they remove all of it to hide what happened. If it's set far enough in the future, the squadmate choices won't matter much. You could make some choices on the gender of your Shepard, LI and so forth. They could even do a world state import so you don't have to bother with that. Krogans don't have to be off the table. It's not like they vanish just because the genophage continues. They live to be 1000 years old. Including them wouldn't be a stretch. Even quarians could be worked in under any conditions if you assume not all ships were dumb enough to engage the geth. Then, too, the geth could be rebuilt and it's fairly unimportant as to whether or not they're the "original" geth, since only Legion had a personality. The biggest decision would be regarding the Reapers. RBG & Refuse. I thought I'd read somewhere that Destroy was the most common option, but I don't know what that's based on. Similarly, Liara was the most common LI, and there she is. Though, honestly, Refuse isn't off the table. Sure, there are dead Reapers, but that happens no matter what. Who's to say members of MW races didn't go underground and resurface once the Reapers were gone? Asari and krogan could certainly wait that out and care for other races who are playing popsicle. Synthesis would be the least likely because it's too obvious. I say Destroy but I guess we'll see. Edited to avoid wall of text.
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 2, 2021 0:24:31 GMT
A post production slideshow with almost no context given is also easy to retcon. These sorts of choices can be accounted for in a codex or something. Big green brainwash wave and Refuse are the main big problems that are mutually exclusive with all other worldstates. Even rachni on Tuchanka is easy. The rachni showed up to help the krogan rebuild. Maybe a deal cut to work together..
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 2, 2021 0:30:04 GMT
Man, I think the rachni just vanishing through a relay is more believable than the krogan ever just agreeing to work with them.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 2, 2021 0:42:38 GMT
So, I see heavy retcon. The final RBGs are all valid and canonical, but after 700 years, the differences for whatever reason have become irrelevant, and the setting scenario is unique. Except Synthesis. It's the one you can't really hide. Everyone is green.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 2, 2021 0:45:38 GMT
So, I see heavy retcon. The final RBGs are all valid and canonical, but after 700 years, the differences for whatever reason have become irrelevant, and the setting scenario is unique. Except Synthesis. It's the one you can't really hide. Everyone is green. Lines fade in time. Or were just symbolic/metaphorical for the ending to show it had occurred.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 2, 2021 1:00:40 GMT
The bigger issue with synthesis is how it affects the world on a fundamental level. You can retcon out the green circuitry effect, but how do characters behave? Are they exactly the same as we remember them? Do characters like....connect to one another wirelessly somehow, like some sort of Cyberpunk-like world where everyone is augmented? There's a lot of nagging questions that I don't believe BioWare is even going to bother answering.
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Post by Radec on Feb 2, 2021 3:35:31 GMT
The bigger issue with synthesis is how it affects the world on a fundamental level. You can retcon out the green circuitry effect, but how do characters behave? Are they exactly the same as we remember them? Do characters like....connect to one another wirelessly somehow, like some sort of Cyberpunk-like world where everyone is augmented? There's a lot of nagging questions that I don't believe BioWare is even going to bother answering. Probably some kind of wetware connected to whatever network the Reapers and the brat were hooked up to. Though it's hard to tell when presented as such dumb, pseudoscientific vagueness where the trees get circuit boards and everyone lives happily ever after because.....reasons? Even beyond the details, the premise itself is so fundamentally stupid, in that it falsely assumes conflict stems from misunderstanding rather than conflicting interests. And also that solving the organic-synthetic problem somehow has anything to do with 90% of the plots and subplots we experienced. I mean aside from the geth Heretics and that one AI on the Citadel in ME1 we ran into, AIs basically didnt feature in the the hundred other belligerent conflicts between Council/Non-Council/Krogan/Turian/Salarian/Rachni/Batarian/Human/Quarian/Corporate interests/Biotic Extremists/Ancient Plant Lifeforms/rival gangs and mercenary groups/terrorists/slavers and pirates/crooked cops/political and ideological factions. How the green beam solved all those issues I don't know (besides brainwashing), but regardless, it doesn't make for a good setting in terms of narrative or thematic potential.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 2, 2021 3:53:00 GMT
Unless they want to effectively remove the MW from he game so you don't have to see the answers, no Krogan, no quarians, but hey a different dialogue choice about what happened to them. But what would be the point of returning to the MW if they remove all of it to hide what happened. If it's set far enough in the future, the squadmate choices won't matter much. You could make some choices on the gender of your Shepard, LI and so forth. They could even do a world state import so you don't have to bother with that. Krogans don't have to be off the table. It's not like they vanish just because the genophage continues. They live to be 1000 years old. Including them wouldn't be a stretch. Even quarians could be worked in under any conditions if you assume not all ships were dumb enough to engage the geth. Then, too, the geth could be rebuilt and it's fairly unimportant as to whether or not they're the "original" geth, since only Legion had a personality. The biggest decision would be regarding the Reapers. RBG & Refuse. I thought I'd read somewhere that Destroy was the most common option, but I don't know what that's based on. Similarly, Liara was the most common LI, and there she is. Though, honestly, Refuse isn't off the table. Sure, there are dead Reapers, but that happens no matter what. Who's to say members of MW races didn't go underground and resurface once the Reapers were gone? Asari and krogan could certainly wait that out and care for other races who are playing popsicle. Synthesis would be the least likely because it's too obvious. I say Destroy but I guess we'll see. Edited to avoid wall of text.
Yeah I don't deny it can be done, I just don't see the point. Like if they had done it 4 years ago when people still had an emotional investment into their decision maybe, now it just feels like you are sidelining things for nothing. As yes you can have Krogan, with the cure you'd expect a lot of damn Krogan, geth/quarians are insular enough I think you could dodge that one more easily. And then the reaper decisions If the galaxy was fixed, and far in the future I think they could get away with any ending fitting, but broken and far in the future its hard to push Control or Synthesis as possible there.
So yes it can be done, I just don't see the value add at this point. You are demphasizing the most popular parts of your galaxy to dodge a answer. Don't get me wrong I'd like a game with no Krogan, as either we get the same old grumpy warrior or they go opposite land to show they are individuals which is just eye rollingly painful to see.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 2, 2021 5:32:10 GMT
The bigger issue with synthesis is how it affects the world on a fundamental level. You can retcon out the green circuitry effect, but how do characters behave? Are they exactly the same as we remember them? Do characters like....connect to one another wirelessly somehow, like some sort of Cyberpunk-like world where everyone is augmented? There's a lot of nagging questions that I don't believe BioWare is even going to bother answering. Not least of which is, assuming free will is still a thing, how do people react to bring "upgraded" without their knowledge and consent? I've been researching Stargate SG-1 and there is an early episode where O'neill absolutely loses his sh*t when he discovers that his consciousness has been transferred into an Android body that perfectly resembled his own flesh and blood form. It didn't matter that this form was stronger, more durable,etc. This was a personal violation and not was he p*ssed! Now imagine that in a galactic scale.
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Post by michaeln7 on Feb 2, 2021 6:26:57 GMT
The bigger issue with synthesis is how it affects the world on a fundamental level. You can retcon out the green circuitry effect, but how do characters behave? Are they exactly the same as we remember them? Do characters like....connect to one another wirelessly somehow, like some sort of Cyberpunk-like world where everyone is augmented? There's a lot of nagging questions that I don't believe BioWare is even going to bother answering. Not least of which is, assuming free will is still a thing, how do people react to bring "upgraded" without their knowledge and consent? I've been researching Stargate SG-1 and there is an early episode where O'neill absolutely loses his sh*t when he discovers that his consciousness has been transferred into an Android body that perfectly resembled his own flesh and blood form. It didn't matter that this form was stronger, more durable,etc. This was a personal violation and not was he p*ssed! Now imagine that in a galactic scale. I'm one of those picks Synthesis, and I agree, this is the biggest 'flaw in logic' that I've never been quite able to wrap my head around. I can see the argument of "It's better than more war!", which is fair, but that's only in the moment. I suppose one could 'reject' the 'gift' of Synthesis, but we have no footage or experiences of such things. Boy, do I love the endings... Pardon the heavy usage of quotes.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 2, 2021 6:36:25 GMT
The bigger issue with synthesis is how it affects the world on a fundamental level. You can retcon out the green circuitry effect, but how do characters behave? Are they exactly the same as we remember them? Do characters like....connect to one another wirelessly somehow, like some sort of Cyberpunk-like world where everyone is augmented? There's a lot of nagging questions that I don't believe BioWare is even going to bother answering. Probably some kind of wetware connected to whatever network the Reapers and the brat were hooked up to. Though it's hard to tell when presented as such dumb, pseudoscientific vagueness where the trees get circuit boards and everyone lives happily ever after because.....reasons? Even beyond the details, the premise itself is so fundamentally stupid, in that it falsely assumes conflict stems from misunderstanding rather than conflicting interests. And also that solving the organic-synthetic problem somehow has anything to do with 90% of the plots and subplots we experienced. I mean aside from the geth Heretics and that one AI on the Citadel in ME1 we ran into, AIs basically didnt feature in the the hundred other belligerent conflicts between Council/Non-Council/Krogan/Turian/Salarian/Rachni/Batarian/Human/Quarian/Corporate interests/Biotic Extremists/Ancient Plant Lifeforms/rival gangs and mercenary groups/terrorists/slavers and pirates/crooked cops/political and ideological factions. How the green beam solved all those issues I don't know (besides brainwashing), but regardless, it doesn't make for a good setting in terms of narrative or thematic potential. Who said the green beam did solve those issues? The Catalyst wasn't tasked with finding a solution to those problems, and the peace we see in the epilogue slide is achieved in all endings due to the races working together so it's not Synthesis that caused that.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 2, 2021 16:38:45 GMT
Probably some kind of wetware connected to whatever network the Reapers and the brat were hooked up to. Though it's hard to tell when presented as such dumb, pseudoscientific vagueness where the trees get circuit boards and everyone lives happily ever after because.....reasons? Even beyond the details, the premise itself is so fundamentally stupid, in that it falsely assumes conflict stems from misunderstanding rather than conflicting interests. And also that solving the organic-synthetic problem somehow has anything to do with 90% of the plots and subplots we experienced. I mean aside from the geth Heretics and that one AI on the Citadel in ME1 we ran into, AIs basically didnt feature in the the hundred other belligerent conflicts between Council/Non-Council/Krogan/Turian/Salarian/Rachni/Batarian/Human/Quarian/Corporate interests/Biotic Extremists/Ancient Plant Lifeforms/rival gangs and mercenary groups/terrorists/slavers and pirates/crooked cops/political and ideological factions. How the green beam solved all those issues I don't know (besides brainwashing), but regardless, it doesn't make for a good setting in terms of narrative or thematic potential. Who said the green beam did solve those issues? The Catalyst wasn't tasked with finding a solution to those problems, and the peace we see in the epilogue slide is achieved in all endings due to the races working together so it's not Synthesis that caused that. The krogan are at peace in the Green Utopia ending regardless of who is in charge. In any other ending, it depends on which leaders are alive.
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Post by Radec on Feb 2, 2021 18:20:34 GMT
Who said the green beam did solve those issues? The Catalyst wasn't tasked with finding a solution to those problems, and the peace we see in the epilogue slide is achieved in all endings due to the races working together so it's not Synthesis that caused that. The krogan are at peace in the Green Utopia ending regardless of who is in charge. In any other ending, it depends on which leaders are alive. Yep, Wreav got brainwashed for sure. Whole of the genophage arc he is ranting and raving about punishing the galaxy, but the green alters his brain. His thought process had nothing to do with understanding synthetics or whatever. Guy just wanted revenge on some other organics, but the green beam rewrites him.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 2, 2021 19:16:08 GMT
Who said the green beam did solve those issues? The Catalyst wasn't tasked with finding a solution to those problems, and the peace we see in the epilogue slide is achieved in all endings due to the races working together so it's not Synthesis that caused that. The krogan are at peace in the Green Utopia ending regardless of who is in charge. In any other ending, it depends on which leaders are alive. Also in destruction hacket speaks of a possible peace in the future if we could work together not of one now. Though that may just be a renegade ending, not sure on that its been a while.
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