kumazan
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Post by kumazan on Dec 17, 2020 11:23:06 GMT
Shepard has died (possibly twice) already. Let them finally rest wherever they are.
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Sondergaard
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Post by Sondergaard on Dec 17, 2020 12:58:27 GMT
I'd much rather be a brand new character and get to see brand new companions. Also I would want to be somebody with no ties or links to the Alliance this time around Soo.. like they tried with Andromeda? The idea of a new protagonist and crew was fine. The execution was execrable.
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Sondergaard
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Post by Sondergaard on Dec 17, 2020 13:07:52 GMT
One. More. Story. Ha, just kidding...really depends on what or how they'd do it. Generally I think a canonized post-destroy MW a few years after provides a good setting to play with story-wise...but that's just me. It's not just you. It would be a great setting. Rebuilding, dealing with the chaos and corruption, reorganising, gathering allies to get the job done etc. It has so much potential. But it does appear that it is not the new ME, unfortunately. They're going to skip all the interesting stuff and just give us a new world state we had no hand in creating. Which might be fantastic but it's going to feel like the Star Wars sequels where we don't see what happens in between. Just feels like a missed opportunity. They could still do the time jump and tie Andromeda in with the next game, assuming they don't balls it up and kill the franchise stone dead.
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correctamundo
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Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
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Post by correctamundo on Dec 17, 2020 13:57:46 GMT
I don't see how since Shep died saving tha galaxy. We thank Shep for their service.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Dec 17, 2020 15:57:10 GMT
Why is Companions but no Shepard not an option?
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Polka Dot
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Post by Polka Dot on Dec 17, 2020 16:51:01 GMT
Of course, it could just be denial on my part, cuz it's not what I want. I'm trying to understand what Bioware is thinking with this game. Obviously the demand for Shepard is the strongest of all out there, even if not in here. Just look at all the outlets going nuts over Shepard coming back. Yes, I've seen a fair bit of that, but also some folks who specifically do not want Shep back, and not just here. Interest in Andromeda appears to be growing. I frequently see posts from people who recently picked up MEA for cheap and are surprised by how much they like it, since it was so thoroughly panned. That will grow post LE. And that fanbase is going to be changing. It's no secret that there's pretty high turnover between titles in a series. Studios are always looking to draw new people to their games, while hopefully retaining as many existing customers as possible but inevitably losing some. Consider the audience for LE: certainly some existing ME fans will buy it, but I think they're also counting on it attracting a lot more new people to the franchise. A lot (many (?) most (?)) of those new fans will pick up MEA once they've finished LE, and some of them will like it enough to want more. Yep. Shepard in particular and ME in general has a load of baggage and expectations. I think they contributed a lot to people's disenchantment w/ MEA - a lot of people seemed to be expecting some sort of sequel, whereas I went in expecting a spin-off and I think that's why I was more satisfied with it than a lot of folks. For a lot of people, ME means Shepard and that crew and reapers and the Council and Udina and Bailey and Aria and N7 and Spectre and Cerberus and focused corridor missions and TMW and everything else that goes along with that. Whatever they do next, some of those components will be MIA. Furthermore, people compare the entirety of their experience of the whole trilogy plus DLCs with one single new game, and of course find that single new game wanting. I sometimes wonder how much the open world maps of MEA versus focused corridor shooter missions of MET impacted the acceptance of MEA - and I think the answer is a lot. Whatever they do next needs to be really solid and polished. If they want max engagement from MET fans, I would suggest they make the new PC a veteran military type and give up open world exploration and just do focused corridor missions, because that seems to be one of the things that MET fans really like. Sort of a Shepard 2.0, and plan a multi-game series to take advantage of their investment.
If they're going to stick with having more (or any) open world exploration, they may as well go with Ryder in Andromeda. They already have a fan base for that, and LE's release along with bringing a more polished MEA2 could build on that.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 17, 2020 17:20:59 GMT
but also some folks who specifically do not want Shep back, and not just here. There's people even advocating for a new protagonist and crew altogether. But the youtube views also send a clear message. Interest in Andromeda appears to be growing. I frequently see posts from people who recently picked up MEA for cheap and are surprised by how much they like it, since it was so thoroughly panned. That will grow post LE. Jot me down on the skeptical list for that. And that fanbase is going to be changing. In what way? It's no secret that there's pretty high turnover between titles in a series. Studios are always looking to draw new people to their games, while hopefully retaining as many existing customers as possible but inevitably losing some. Consider the audience for LE: certainly some existing ME fans will buy it, but I think they're also counting on it attracting a lot more new people to the franchise. A lot (many (?) most (?)) of those new fans will pick up MEA once they've finished LE, and some of them will like it enough to want more. Remasters rarely sell that well, not enough to invigorate old franchises. As I said, about 500k copies sold, is my prediction. Maybe others will buy it later, for a reduced price, but that's not fanbase building numbers. And I don't see how ME:A is going to sell after that. Some people might care for it, but Andromeda already made the bulk of its sales. It's not changing before Netflix, or someone else, makes a TV show out of it. As for the rest, besides the polish, I don't agree. Protagonists don't dictate whether a game should be a corridor shooter or open world, I don't see why you're even making that connection to begin with. If the point is to make another Shepard, you've already got Shepard, just because some people will buy the ME:LE, doesn't mean they'll buy ME:A as well. ME:A isn't even on PS5 and it doesn't seem to be on a backward compatible list, nor is it getting, yet, a re-release on the PS5. Out of the people that will buy the ME:LE doesn't even mean that they will like it, out of those that will like it, how many do you expect moving on to ME:A and how many of those do you expect will actually like ME:A? You have some very high expectations that I find completely unfounded. If any of the things you are predicting happens, it will be the first time I ever see such a thing happening. At least, I am not aware of anything like that ever happening.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Dec 17, 2020 17:31:21 GMT
Regardless of which ending a player chooses at the end of ME3 the human being known as Commander Shepard is DEAD, and yes I'm well aware of the Control ending a Reaper being and/or having their mind and/or soul of Shepard in it which IMHO is just stupid.
The series is called Mass Effect and NOT The Adventures of Commander Shepard.
So I say bring back Ryder and company they have a LOT more potential going forward than some bad fanservice masquerading as a plot like the Star Wars sequel trilogy.
So here is my advice is not to follow the Star Wars sequel trilogy of using nostalgia and bad fanservice as a plot (the only good film out that trilogy was Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi and that is because Rian Johnson actually had the balls to try and move the damn franchise forward and not backwards) and to avoid it at all costs! Instead follow the current Star Trek TV shows because season 3 of Star Trek: Discovery uses fanservice but in the right way and uses it too move both the series and franchise as a whole forward not backwards. Star Trek: Picard season 1 had a lot in common with Mass Effect and told it's story better than the MET ever did and again pushed the series and franchise forward.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 17, 2020 18:12:10 GMT
Interest in Andromeda appears to be growing. I frequently see posts from people who recently picked up MEA for cheap and are surprised by how much they like it, since it was so thoroughly panned. That will grow post LE. I disagree. Since the rumors of a remaster, talk of the trilogy has grown with very little talk about MEA. In Nov, trilogy VA's had a Q&A. On the twitter thread, there are tweets related to the trilogy whereas there's little to nothing about MEA. Bioware has also shown new merchandise related to the trilogy. I didn't see anything for MEA. Once the remaster was confirmed, talk has gone up while talk of MEA is low. With the recent release of the teaser, talk of the trilogy is high while talk of MEA has grown a bit. Once a release date is confirmed for the remaster, the trilogy talk will be high. Once it's released, it will be very high. It's possible new people will join this forum to create threads and ask questions about the remaster. MEA will be.....somewhere. As I said, about 500k copies sold, is my prediction. I recall you saying 200k. Regardless of which ending a player chooses at the end of ME3 the human being known as Commander Shepard is DEAD, and yes I'm well aware of the Control ending a Reaper being and/or having their mind and/or soul of Shepard in it which IMHO is just stupid. I'm sure you're well aware Shepard can survive the red ending, right?
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Post by ahglock on Dec 17, 2020 18:14:06 GMT
Regardless of which ending a player chooses at the end of ME3 the human being known as Commander Shepard is DEAD, and yes I'm well aware of the Control ending a Reaper being and/or having their mind and/or soul of Shepard in it which IMHO is just stupid.
The series is called Mass Effect and NOT The Adventures of Commander Shepard.
So I say bring back Ryder and company they have a LOT more potential going forward than some bad fanservice masquerading as a plot like the Star Wars sequel trilogy.
So here is my advice is not to follow the Star Wars sequel trilogy of using nostalgia and bad fanservice as a plot (the only good film out that trilogy was Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi and that is because Rian Johnson actually had the balls to try and move the damn franchise forward and not backwards) and to avoid it at all costs! Instead follow the current Star Trek TV shows because season 3 of Star Trek: Discovery uses fanservice but in the right way and uses it too move both the series and franchise as a whole forward not backwards. Star Trek: Picard season 1 had a lot in common with Mass Effect and told it's story better than the MET ever did and again pushed the series and franchise forward.
1. There is a option for Shepard to be alive in the endings, and they confirmed that the breath scene was supposed to represent that.
2. People can have more than one story. Ryders story ended just as much as Shepards did. In fact they'd both be in roughly the same spot. The threat is dead, and its time to build, there are new threats in the future. And Ryder and company has less potential for many because they are lame.
3. My ideal would have been stick with andromeda, time jump it so the setting feels more developed, ditch ryder and crew for people who are interesting. It does not look like that is in the cards though.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 17, 2020 18:16:31 GMT
I recall you saying 200k. 200k-300k on PS5. And I may be generous with that.
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Post by Polka Dot on Dec 17, 2020 18:29:04 GMT
And that fanbase is going to be changing. In what way? LE Release. I would suggest the fanbase changes day by day, week by week as new players pick up MET and MEA for the first time. You stated your expectations for LE sales. How many copies LE will sell remains to be seen, and probably isn't something we'll ever really know. Outside of ME1, MET was primarily a corridor shooter with focused missions and featured Shepard. I've been in enough discussions with other MET fans to know that many of them really, really like the focused mission, corridor shooter style and were not interested in open world exploration. Some people didn't seem to mind the Mako or Hammerhead, but both got quite a bit of criticism. I believe part of the package of baggage and expectations that Shepard brings to the table includes focused corridor missions. I suspect that if Bio offered a game w/ Shepard that had only a few main story focused corridor missions but was mostly open world exploration, some of those expectations would not be met. MEA had both focused corridor style main story missions and open world exploration. Actually, the open world exploration was a significant part of what MEA offered, and they put a lot of effort into trying to make the Nomad fun to drive. Thus, there is more connection of Ryder with open world exploration than there is with Shepard.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 17, 2020 18:30:21 GMT
I recall you saying 200k. 200k-300k on PS5. And I may be generous with that. I have not checked the history on it. But the timing of these coming out with the new consoles may make it a bigger number. Not because of super hype for it but because new consoles just don't have a ton of games.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 17, 2020 18:50:35 GMT
LE Release. I would suggest the fanbase changes day by day, week by week as new players pick up MET and MEA for the first time. I'm going to stop you. There's no MET or ME:A renaissance happening. People who were unimpressed by ME:A will not go back to check the trilogy, virtually nobody is going to go back to an Unreal 3 engine game, for the PS5/XSEX. Even PC can already get a better game with mods and it's probably going to look better. I believe part of the package of baggage and expectations that Shepard brings to the table includes focused corridor missions There is no limiting factor. People liked the focused corridors, because they had better level design than "copy-paste bunker" or "copy-paste cave" or "copy-paste installation". If Bioware could, unlikely, combine good level design with open world, nobody would care, nor is open world a staple of Ryder. As far as I am aware, Ryder is only a single protagonist in a plethora of open world games. Last time I checked, Ezio Auditore di Firenze was in 3 games that offered both open world and more linear corridor style levels and he didn't show up in ME:A once. What kind of argument even is this? Don't want Ezio, because he's from Ubisoft? How about Faith from Mirror's Edge? Don't want Faith because she's from DICE? Shepard already had a game under his belt that fit those conditions and Ryder didn't even exist, so there's no reason to come up with Ryder to begin with. No, this is nonsense. All of it.
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Post by Polka Dot on Dec 17, 2020 19:21:40 GMT
LE Release. I would suggest the fanbase changes day by day, week by week as new players pick up MET and MEA for the first time. I'm going to stop you. Sadly, you lack the power to do so. So that's why there's been a lot more ME activity 'round the net lately. lol. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 17, 2020 19:26:03 GMT
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Post by Polka Dot on Dec 17, 2020 19:52:36 GMT
No worries. I'll take a look at what's on offer as the release date nears, and make a purchase decision then - assuming I live that long.
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Post by ClarkKent on Dec 17, 2020 20:15:46 GMT
What about no Shepard but some of the companions return? After hanging around the forums this seems like a popular choice, maybe the most popular actually. And since when was Shepard a 'he'? This is my choice. Have a smattering of OT characters function as quest givers.
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 17, 2020 23:19:47 GMT
Of course, it could just be denial on my part, cuz it's not what I want. I'm trying to understand what Bioware is thinking with this game. Obviously the demand for Shepard is the strongest of all out there, even if not in here. Just look at all the outlets going nuts over Shepard coming back. Barring that, there is ... some demand for Ryder, which is OK, I don't have to buy the game, if I don't want it. But at least someone does. I don't know how well that will go, but Bioware can knock themselves out, at it. So we've already got a fanbase that is splintered, or divided, or fragmented, call it what you will. So introducing a third protagonist would fix none of the pre-existing problems, I know I won't be buying their game, and helps further splinter the fanbase, as a potential 3rd dropped protagonist will create their own division in their fanbase. At which point, we can keep pilling up protagonists, till the interest in the franchise completely dissolves, even considering this game, if it even makes the current console gen, as a live service game, will definitely be the ONLY Mass Effect we are getting, till 2030 at the earliest. And if what I hear is true, ~2030 will probably be DA5's time. We might be getting another new IP, or at least a non DA/ME title after ME5. I don't know how many will be interested in playing a live service ME, which ME5 will be, with new characters, old ones appearing as info dumps and quest givers, a la Destiny/Anthem etc. with little to zero interaction outside of questlines, which will vastly undermine their re-appearances to the point of less than a ME2's character cameo appearance in ME3. Nobody's going to care for that, nobody's going to be satisfied with that. But at least Liara is back. I suspect people are more in love with their idea of what a returning Shepard would be like rather than what they’ll probably get. This hypothetical Shepard would likely get the same homogenized callback dialogue that no longer accounts for much of anything from the previous trilogy, and I’d look forward to the displeasure of people who really wanted to romance that shiny new NPC, but they’re saddled with dealing with the old one they romanced way back when. That or, once again, confirming the romance. Liara: “I’d like to do this again some time Shepard, perhaps as more than just...friends.” Shepard: “Bitch, we’ve been married for 15 years!” I don’t really give a shit about getting Ryder back or not at this point. I just don’t want to be saddled with a character that’s had a long, extensive narrative, particularly one that’s basically elevated to galactic savior status. I’d rather start off with a nobody character that gets built up through the story than one that has everyone going “Oh shit it’s Shepard” at every hub. As for live service, well that can just die in a fire. The last thing Mass Effect needs is some hamster wheel sandbox. The little side content arenas like ME3MP will suffice.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 17, 2020 23:41:44 GMT
I agree with most of that. Though I think there could be some fun stories involving Shepard post reapers. He's this big time hero and everyone starts expecting him to solve their problems and he's like damn can't a guy just enjoy a drink.
But yeah, I think people are expecting Shepard ot be something that is almost impossible to pull off 9 years later.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 17, 2020 23:50:55 GMT
By 2026 Shepard will be about as relevant as Duke Nukem.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 18, 2020 0:12:20 GMT
By 2026 Shepard will be about as relevant as Duke Nukem. Imagine being Dragon Age in 2023-2024. We're already irrelevant. At least Shepard's got a remaster coming in 2021, that 500k people will semi-enjoy, semi-regret ever getting into.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 18, 2020 0:19:45 GMT
I suspect people are more in love with their idea of what a returning Shepard would be like rather than what they’ll probably get. This hypothetical Shepard would likely get the same homogenized callback dialogue that no longer accounts for much of anything from the previous trilogy, and I’d look forward to the displeasure of people who really wanted to romance that shiny new NPC, but they’re saddled with dealing with the old one they romanced way back when. That or, once again, confirming the romance. I'm not interested in romancing new NPCs. I would rather get a feel of what the romancing of the existing ones do. And no re-confirming it. If you want to romance someone else, import a save where that other character romance was carried over. Also, mostly, for the interactions between characters that didn't interact that much with each other, or characters that should interact with each other, but didn't, or at least not to a degree where their potential is realized. As someone who writes, and I don't mean just code, unrealized potential between characters is the one thing that pisses me off more than anything. Which is why I have these two as my avatar. I have not come across another female duo in video games, that bounces off each other so effortlessly, that they basically write themselves, according to the occasion.
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Party like it's 2023!
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August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 18, 2020 2:00:11 GMT
I suspect people are more in love with their idea of what a returning Shepard would be like rather than what they’ll probably get. This hypothetical Shepard would likely get the same homogenized callback dialogue that no longer accounts for much of anything from the previous trilogy, and I’d look forward to the displeasure of people who really wanted to romance that shiny new NPC, but they’re saddled with dealing with the old one they romanced way back when. That or, once again, confirming the romance. I'm not interested in romancing new NPCs. I would rather get a feel of what the romancing of the existing ones do. And no re-confirming it. If you want to romance someone else, import a save where that other character romance was carried over. Also, mostly, for the interactions between characters that didn't interact that much with each other, or characters that should interact with each other, but didn't, or at least not to a degree where their potential is realized. As someone who writes, and I don't mean just code, unrealized potential between characters is the one thing that pisses me off more than anything. Which is why I have these two as my avatar. I have not come across another female duo in video games, that bounces off each other so effortlessly, that they basically write themselves, according to the occasion. Well, sad to say, new NPC’s are kind of a requisite here. BioWare can’t just package nothing but oldies in a totally new game with a totally new story and call it a day. When it comes to character content in particular, a big part of that, especially in a BioWare game, is the buildup of getting to know a character and their growing relationship with our protagonist. Something like a long settled-in relationship isn’t exactly intriguing, and I do not expect BioWare to be up to the task to making it so. The “pursuit” aspect is a stronger driving force in character content for these games, not the repeatable kiss and snuggle mechanic, because the pursuit is where you get the strongest narrative tie to the character before the pair’s emotional connection. For example, Cyberpunk has a mission where you essentially get to know a character rather deeply, learning about their past and internal struggles and hangups while visiting a place from their past. This sort of thing would not have been interesting if these characters already knew each other for years, because it would beg the question “why the fuck didn’t they do this already?” As for potential, that ship has sailed, at least for the old lot. BioWare had 3 games to flesh them all out. Too late to supplement them now. This game needs to actually deliver on building rather than just running some maintenance, otherwise it will just feel stale. One might be inclined to keep pointing at Andromeda as a case against, but that’s like establishing that BioWare should never make another game again altogether. The more I think about this, the more I’m just hoping that Liara (maybe Wrex) is the only survivor from the original cast. It’s a clean and effective way to just move on and drop off a lot of unneeded baggage, and gives BioWare a chance to actually put some effort into creating a fresher experience. As someone who has played the trilogy numerous times, the last thing I want is to try to follow whatever it was I feel my Shepard was like.
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3,996
Blast Processor
"Why are you telling me this? I can read and draw my own conclusions." - Roach
1,439
August 2016
slotts
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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 18, 2020 2:05:09 GMT
Depends on the story they decide to tell. If he fits sure, if not no. I think he should probably be back in some capacity due to how the trailer is being perceived. But probably not as the protagonist. Yeah, I'm pretty much open to anything at this point. At the end of the day, its the execution that matters.
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