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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 25, 2020 16:54:11 GMT
Certainly not with people like you I disagree on the notion that ME didn't die. Would you consider Mirror's Edge as a franchise that is "alive"? The first one made its fanbase, which was non viable, then EA revived it and the franchise died again. The only difference is that, unlike Mirror's Edge, Mass Effect 3 killed the franchise and Bioware went on like it hadn't, because in spite of what ME3 did, it was a financial success. I don't consider a franchise that can at any point be brought back, after a controversy, after a second controversy and getting shelved, to be "alive". There are franchises in far better state than that, which are currently dead. Maybe Liara's return "saved" Mass Effect, until people realize that Liara's return isn't what they think it is. They've fucked it up.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 25, 2020 18:00:59 GMT
I have different memories of post ME3 than you I guess. People were upset with the endings, but most actually felt the EC fixed it for them as heir problem wasn't the ending but the lack of a proper send off. The hype and enthusiasm for a new game was pretty strong, that's not dead to me. Post Andromeda there was a lot less hype, that maybe didn't kill it but it put the hurt on the franchise. Now that the have hinted at a return to the MW the hype is pretty strong again. That does not seem dead to me.
Given how I suspect they will troll the original trilogy fan base hard with their story because they hate their fans my guess it will be totally dead then.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2020 22:27:02 GMT
Just to clarify... Who is getting cleared of suspicion and or blame? Is it EAWARE or yourself being cleared of suspicion of some kind? Is it not buying games or buying only used that is getting blamed for something? Vindicated is the term for clearing blame of suspicion.
Do you mean justified? Sorry if this is out of left field... I am a bit confused .
I felt that Bioware and EA made ME3 as subpar sequel to ME2, with underwhelming dialogue and an atrocious, rushed ending. In my opinion they made a false advertisement of the final product, and that led me to preorder the game. After one of the biggest fan uproars the gaming industry ever faced, they released the extended ending free-DLC. Many people were satisfied with it. I wasn't. The practices that led to ME3, its endings and all the debacle that it caused were not heard by most of the AAA developers. Bioware themselves launched two products after, MEA and Anthem, plagued by more problems than ME3. Since then all the false advertisement, artificial hype generated by paid "journalists", games launching incomplete, the gamers serving as glorified beta-testers paying full price for an underdeveloped product, paying even more money via microtransctions and addictive practices more akin to a Casino, all that just got worse.
Personally, it made me wary of any kind of new game, gaming journalism, hype of any kind, and of the industry in general. So much that I don't consider myself a gamer anymore, I just casually play older games, and never buy new ones.
The vindication comes down to Bioware having to pull a trailer of Liara climbing a dead Reaper to save any prestige they still have in 2020, to generate some hope in all ME fans that they didn't kill their most beloved franchise after all their mediocrity in the last 8 years, the very same mediocrity they camouflaged as "artistic integrity" back in 2012.
I hope I could clarify my position this time around.
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Post by river82 on Dec 25, 2020 23:05:34 GMT
Oh well, I played some games, but never bought any new ones. ME3 was my first and only preordered game. Another lesson well learned. Limbo and Undertale were amazing. Spec Ops: The Line was a kick to the guts, the story is captivating. Titanfall 2 is a great, great game. Saints Row IV was hilarious and great, a love letter to the franchise and the fans. GTA V was phenomenal. FTL, Bioshock:Infinite, Shadow of Mordor...many good games played. Never new. No hype. No DLC bullshit. I guess I'm just pickier with my time and gaming in general. 2012 teached me how it's a waste to spend it in glorified slot machines, grinding eternally for mediocre content. I visit this site two or three times per year, just to laugh at the piss poor state of Anthem and Bioware in general. But the news of Casey's departure, ME5 (probably) in the Milky Way with at least one recurrent character, and the clear intention to retrieve their credibility after almost a decade of mediocrity, made me feel vindicated. Made me even consider playing another ME game. A used, on sale copy for sure, two years after launch. Thanks for reading folks! Gawd Undertale was so overrated. I still have no idea how it got the praise it did. To be honest games are ... in an okay state. Let's be really honest the writing in video games was never good. I go back to play KOTOR and its serviceable I guess, but the writing in current games eclipse it by a pretty large margin. We're getting a really good variety of good games these days and whatever genres AAA games don't cover we might have indie games filling the gaps, which wasn't really the case a decade ago. JRPGs were dead but are now alive again, Isometric RPGs were dead but are alive again, we still have our shooters except now we also have looter shooters, we still have our action games, our open world games, whatever else you seem to enjoy chances are you'll be covered. 10 years ago isometric RPGs were dead and fans of that genre were stuck replaying Torment or Baldur's Gate over and over talking about how RPGs were no longer the same. AND NOW WE'RE GETTING BALDUR'S GATE 3!!! I dunno, I'm loving these last few years
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2020 23:20:54 GMT
Maybe you are right river82, the scene is getting more diverse now. Maybe it is getting better after all.
Just to disagree a tad bit, the writing quality in some games in the past were awesome. Full Throttle, The Dig, Grim Fandango, Star Control 2...I loved to play these games just to listen to the dialogue.
I'm still waiting for a Panzer Dragoon Saga sequel/remaster/remake though. My favorite game of all time!
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Dec 26, 2020 5:56:02 GMT
Just to clarify... Who is getting cleared of suspicion and or blame? Is it EAWARE or yourself being cleared of suspicion of some kind? Is it not buying games or buying only used that is getting blamed for something? Vindicated is the term for clearing blame of suspicion.
Do you mean justified? Sorry if this is out of left field... I am a bit confused .
I felt that Bioware and EA made ME3 as subpar sequel to ME2, with underwhelming dialogue and an atrocious, rushed ending. In my opinion they made a false advertisement of the final product, and that led me to preorder the game. After one of the biggest fan uproars the gaming industry ever faced, they released the extended ending free-DLC. Many people were satisfied with it. I wasn't. The practices that led to ME3, its endings and all the debacle that it caused were not heard by most of the AAA developers. Bioware themselves launched two products after, MEA and Anthem, plagued by more problems than ME3. Since then all the false advertisement, artificial hype generated by paid "journalists", games launching incomplete, the gamers serving as glorified beta-testers paying full price for an underdeveloped product, paying even more money via microtransctions and addictive practices more akin to a Casino, all that just got worse.
Personally, it made me wary of any kind of new game, gaming journalism, hype of any kind, and of the industry in general. So much that I don't consider myself a gamer anymore, I just casually play older games, and never buy new ones.
The vindication comes down to Bioware having to pull a trailer of Liara climbing a dead Reaper to save any prestige they still have in 2020, to generate some hope in all ME fans that they didn't kill their most beloved franchise after all their mediocrity in the last 8 years, the very same mediocrity they camouflaged as "artistic integrity" back in 2012.
I hope I could clarify my position this time around. Yes you are cleared of blaming bioware for their own stupidity.
You are vindicated.
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Post by mgsmsc on Dec 26, 2020 11:56:42 GMT
Franchises will make decisions that lose people and sometimes the end user changes their preference. Its just the way it goes. I've read people saying they were lost after ME1 - I appreciate their reasons but I don't share them. The Assassins Creed series lost me after 3, I recognise that what has been made since has plenty of fans but my interest for one reason or another waned.
ME3s endings certainly turned some people off the series for good. I think that's a shame if you derived enjoyment from so much of the franchise but there it is. For me I remember first getting to the end a few days after the launch and feeling somewhat bemused (I chose control.) These days I feel pretty indifferent about the choices - above all I think it was always going to be a tall order to end those games to everyone's satisfaction.
MEAs problems retrospectively shine an unfavourable light on some elements of the original trilogy, especially the endings because there then existed an even greater amount of cynicism about the what had been produced. People who were aggravated about the way the OT ended were given fuel for the fire. I'm not criticising that attitude - just stating that the audiences reaction was to some extent coloured by what baggage the Milky Way left with you.
To bring it back on topic with ME and whether or not you will feel vindicated or not - its all going to come down to what experience you had with each title and whether or not you are receptive to the idea of more. One thing is for sure - the people who were lost are going to be very hard to win back and only a well made polished game is likely to keep current fans happy, newcomers interested and perhaps encourage the sceptical to return.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 26, 2020 14:16:47 GMT
the people who were lost are going to be very hard to win back and only a well made polished game is likely to keep current fans happy, newcomers interested and perhaps encourage the sceptical to return. I don't think so. I don't think ME can stand on its own legs anymore. It has to do with Bioware itself, on one hand, but also the state of ME after ME3. I think it's loosing fans faster than it is making them, Andromeda was dead out the gate, because it was a game that got criticized, but more importantly, a game people weren't interested in following. And that's the problem right there. People no longer care about ME. At least, not in a ME that doesn't implicate the old crew. And we see this with the reaction to Liara in the teaser. Can you imagine Peebee getting the same reaction out of people? Because I sincerely doubt it. At the path Bioware is going down, I don't think they can save ME. Not with the game they have in mind.
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Post by mgsmsc on Dec 26, 2020 15:00:44 GMT
the people who were lost are going to be very hard to win back and only a well made polished game is likely to keep current fans happy, newcomers interested and perhaps encourage the sceptical to return. I don't think so. I don't think ME can stand on its own legs anymore. It has to do with Bioware itself, on one hand, but also the state of ME after ME3. I think it's loosing fans faster than it is making them, Andromeda was dead out the gate, because it was a game that got criticized, but more importantly, a game people weren't interested in following. And that's the problem right there. People no longer care about ME. At least, not in a ME that doesn't implicate the old crew. And we see this with the reaction to Liara in the teaser. Can you imagine Peebee getting the same reaction out of people? Because I sincerely doubt it. At the path Bioware is going down, I don't think they can save ME. Not with the game they have in mind. I see where you are coming from - you are basically saying the material itself isn't going to be of the substance of the OT and that the name 'ME' in the title isn't about to win the hearts of those closed by either by the end of ME3 or MEA. I expect there will be a significant number with that outlook. I shan't know which camp I am in until we see what they come up with. For now I will be fence sitting - hoping for the best and fearing the worst. I think there are people out there who care about ME, I'm not sure how much that matters. Anything they do is going to have to bring in a new audience on a new gen of consoles and to some extent whatever or however they implement the older cast will fall flat through ignorance if nothing else. Frankly, the 'oh that looks like Liara' thing didn't do much for me but I take your your point on Peebee - on my 1st playthrough of MEA I rather wanted to shoot her and her ex at the end of the loyalty mission. Where I differ from you is in the view that the OT is not unassailable and that MEA had enough going for it to leave a bit of hope for what is coming. A little tenuous given the circumstances but we'll see.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 26, 2020 15:18:28 GMT
I think there are people out there who care about ME, I'm not sure how much that matters. Anything they do is going to have to bring in a new audience on a new gen of consoles and to some extent whatever or however they implement the older cast will fall flat through ignorance if nothing else I don't think that implicating the old crew will fall flat, because they are making sure it stays relevant through the remaster. Frankly, the 'oh that looks like Liara' thing didn't do much for me but I take your your point on Peebee - on my 1st playthrough of MEA I rather wanted to shoot her and her ex at the end of the loyalty mission. The public reaction was that people lost their minds the moment they saw Liara. And I wish I was that big of a fan of Liara, but I am not. I would be a lot happier, did she do it for me. Where I differ from you is in the view that the OT is not unassailable and that MEA had enough going for it to leave a bit of hope for what is coming. A little tenuous given the circumstances but we'll see. As much as MEA has to offer, more than anything, now is not the time for it. First of all, the normies are thinking Shepard and co. will be back. And this is happening for the second time, after ME3, for the second title, after ME3. It didn't go over well the first time and it's going to go worse the second time.
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Post by mgsmsc on Dec 26, 2020 15:37:59 GMT
I think there are people out there who care about ME, I'm not sure how much that matters. Anything they do is going to have to bring in a new audience on a new gen of consoles and to some extent whatever or however they implement the older cast will fall flat through ignorance if nothing else I don't think that implicating the old crew will fall flat, because they are making sure it stays relevant through the remaster. Frankly, the 'oh that looks like Liara' thing didn't do much for me but I take your your point on Peebee - on my 1st playthrough of MEA I rather wanted to shoot her and her ex at the end of the loyalty mission. The public reaction was that people lost their minds the moment they saw Liara. And I wish I was that big of a fan of Liara, but I am not. I would be a lot happier, did she do it for me. Where I differ from you is in the view that the OT is not unassailable and that MEA had enough going for it to leave a bit of hope for what is coming. A little tenuous given the circumstances but we'll see. As much as MEA has to offer, more than anything, now is not the time for it. First of all, the normies are thinking Shepard and co. will be back. And this is happening for the second time, after ME3, for the second title, after ME3. It didn't go over well the first time and it's going to go worse the second time. Good point on the Remaster - I forgot about that. Yeah, I quite liked Liara but I felt other crew members were a bit more... interesting - I see lore wise she would be around into the future so is useful in that regard. I wasn't suggesting an MEA2 right here, right now. More that I felt there was enough substance in the first one to have a little hope about what they create in the fifth outing. Who are these 'Normies?' Sound a bit odd to me. .
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 26, 2020 16:04:23 GMT
I wasn't suggesting an MEA2 right here, right now. More that I felt there was enough substance in the first one to have a little hope about what they create in the fifth outing. I argue they should make an ME:A2. If not Bioware, then some other studio, as the people who did like Andromeda should get a sequel. But if that's their follow up, or a title that introduces a new crew, to tie over the Milky Way to Andromeda, they're getting neither camp of the fanbase. Who are these 'Normies?' Sound a bit odd to me. . The general public. The kind of people who lost their shit when they saw Luke Skywalker return in the Mandalorian the other day. That kind of people. The large mass that Bioware didn't get them to follow over from ME3 to ME:A.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 27, 2020 4:12:00 GMT
My thoughts are that it's ridiculously childish and petty to still be crying over ME3 8 fucking years later, that viewing Hudson's departure and Anthem's failure as some sort of deserved "punishment" is straight-up lunacy, and deriving vindictive pleasure from it is just psychotic.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 27, 2020 4:25:19 GMT
Pretty sure losing your shit publicly over a tv show disqualifies you from being a "normie".
"Normies" seems like a term more appropriately applied to people who would never get so obsessed with a work of fiction in the first place.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 27, 2020 11:01:55 GMT
Pretty sure losing your shit publicly over a tv show disqualifies you from being a "normie". "Normies" seems like a term more appropriately applied to people who would never get so obsessed with a work of fiction in the first place. I don't know. Normies get really passionate about their TV shows and movies. Luke showing in Mando, Glen's death in the Walking Dead, GoT season 8. Normies do get passionate about "geek" stuff. And normies do fall out from franchises over things they don't like. Just look at Star Wars after TLJ. As for ME3, if the effects of it are still rippling through today, yes, we are going to talk about it still. Because disregarding it the first time didn't work. People just aren't on board otherwise.
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Post by Spectr61 on Dec 27, 2020 11:52:25 GMT
Pretty sure losing your shit publicly over a tv show disqualifies you from being a "normie". "Normies" seems like a term more appropriately applied to people who would never get so obsessed with a work of fiction in the first place. I don't know. Normies get really passionate about their TV shows and movies. Luke showing in Mando, Glen's death in the Walking Dead, GoT season 8. Normies do get passionate about "geek" stuff. And normies do fall out from franchises over things they don't like. Just look at Star Wars after TLJ. As for ME3, if the effects of it are still rippling through today, yes, we are going to talk about it still. Because disregarding it the first time didn't work. People just aren't on board otherwise. This. Failing is fine, denying isn't. Neither is a lack of accountability for both.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 14:37:09 GMT
I don't know. Normies get really passionate about their TV shows and movies. Luke showing in Mando, Glen's death in the Walking Dead, GoT season 8. Normies do get passionate about "geek" stuff. And normies do fall out from franchises over things they don't like. Just look at Star Wars after TLJ. As for ME3, if the effects of it are still rippling through today, yes, we are going to talk about it still. Because disregarding it the first time didn't work. People just aren't on board otherwise. This. Failing is fine, denying isn't. Neither is a lack of accountability for both. This. "We fucked up, sorry" goes a long way if you are sincere. It wasn't the case. "Entitlement" and "artistic vision" were the excuses for ME3. And it worked! People still defend BW/EA actions, even after MEA and Anthem. www.bbc.com/culture/article/20200213-from-sonic-the-hedgehog-to-star-wars-are-fans-too-entitledBoth recent cases of mediocre products being rebutted by the fans. Sonic's case: "we're sorry, we fucked up". Star Wars' case: "entitled fans", "artistic integrity".
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 28, 2020 15:58:42 GMT
Calling "the fans" entitled is just spittin' facts, lol. Chucking a tantrum because you didn't like a thing and continuing to sulk about it for years and act as if you're owed a new product that follows the script of your personal fan-fiction is absolutely entitlement.
MOST people who didn't enjoy a movie or video game get the fuck over it the next day, they don't wage an extended harassment campaign or openly celebrate when the creators later, unconnected projects fail for unrelated reasons.
"Entitled" is, if anything, too kind. It doesn't begin to cover the the delusion, ignorance, frequent racism, sexism and homophobia, bullying and violence that continue to be pervasive in geek culture as a whole.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 28, 2020 16:12:49 GMT
Calling "the fans" entitled is just spittin' facts, lol. Chucking a tantrum because you didn't like a thing and continuing to sulk about it for years and act as if you're owed a new product that follows the script of your personal fan-fiction is absolutely entitlement. MOST people who didn't enjoy a movie or video game get the fuck over it the next day, they don't wage an extended harassment campaign or openly celebrate when the creators later, unconnected projects fail for unrelated reasons. "Entitled" is, if anything, too kind. It doesn't begin to cover the the delusion, ignorance, frequent racism, sexism and homophobia, bullying and violence that continue to be pervasive in geek culture as a whole. I understand your point of view. However. Take a look at what the Fandom Menace did. TLJ effectively killed Star Wars. Solo being the first Star Wars movie to have lost money solidifies that. Like, imagine it was ... 1988 and someone told you they made a Han Solo movie and it tanked in the box office. Now, LucasFilms, of course, would have no intention to change course, unless fans complained. And complaints are feedback. Whether you like them or believe them, it irrelevant. Especially when the effects can be seen on the further success of the products. You make a shitty movie, it tanks. You make a good TV show and it saves the franchise. Even diminishing returns, from title to title, shows that the franchise is in decline and that the producer needs to change something up, compared to what they were doing. It may even be to express complaint to the damage the company has done to the brand and how the fans are not willing to support it, until corrections are made. tl;dr you need the criticism, it's not entitlement.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 28, 2020 17:08:45 GMT
Calling "the fans" entitled is just spittin' facts, lol. Chucking a tantrum because you didn't like a thing and continuing to sulk about it for years and act as if you're owed a new product that follows the script of your personal fan-fiction is absolutely entitlement. MOST people who didn't enjoy a movie or video game get the fuck over it the next day, they don't wage an extended harassment campaign or openly celebrate when the creators later, unconnected projects fail for unrelated reasons. "Entitled" is, if anything, too kind. It doesn't begin to cover the the delusion, ignorance, frequent racism, sexism and homophobia, bullying and violence that continue to be pervasive in geek culture as a whole. I understand your point of view. However. Take a look at what the Fandom Menace did. TLJ effectively killed Star Wars. Solo being the first Star Wars movie to have lost money solidifies that. Like, imagine it was ... 1988 and someone told you they made a Han Solo movie and it tanked in the box office. Now, LucasFilms, of course, would have no intention to change course, unless fans complained. And complaints are feedback. Whether you like them or believe them, it irrelevant. Especially when the effects can be seen on the further success of the products. You make a shitty movie, it tanks. You make a good TV show and it saves the franchise. Even diminishing returns, from title to title, shows that the franchise is in decline and that the producer needs to change something up, compared to what they were doing. It may even be to express complaint to the damage the company has done to the brand and how the fans are not willing to support it, until corrections are made. tl;dr you need the criticism, it's not entitlement. Seeing as spin-offs of beloved franchises flop all the fucking time, I would not be particularly surprised that a Han Solo movie would fail in any point in time. Also, I wouldn't particularly care, because I don't support milking franchises to death with endless sequels and spin-offs. Outside of the original core film trilogy, most Star Wars media products were historically poorly received by critics and fans alike. All you're really telling me is that, prior to putting black men and Asian women at the forefront of the franchise, "the fans" were more willing to consume complete and utter crap. I don't accept financial success as a metric for quality. Plenty of movies that are now regarded as classics "tanked" in the cinema. Bitch about TLJ all you want, pull up all the statistics you like. It was a functionally fine film, and Rian Johnson demonstrated that he better understands Star Wars better than "the fans" and most people who've handled the franchise, including George Lucas. Namely, he understood that it is spiritual and emotional growth, struggle and connection that forms the core of the original trilogy, not special blood and chasing mcguffins. He also demonstrated a better, more complete and complex understanding of Luke Skywalker as a character. Disney could have easily built on what TFA and TLJ started to make a final part that would have at least made sense, there was no need to "fix" anything TLJ did, and scrapping established characters and plot points only to introduce a dozen new characters and a bunch of bullshit about magical space compasses and resurrected emperors and special blood because clone dad and here's an ancient prophecy in the last 30 minutes that explains everything and don't forget to kiss the neo-fascist because he did A Nice(tm) at the very last second... didn't actually do anything to help the situation in the end anyway. People are only butthurt because TLJ didn't fit with their personal headcanons about how Luke Skywalker "should" be, which totally ignored what the original trilogy had established about his character (namely that he still possesses the capacity for great anger and hate) and the nature of the Jedi and the Force (namely that the struggle between Light and Dark is ongoing for everyone all the time and even a Master Jedi can stumble or even fall). And here's the bottom-line: you could divorce TLJ from the Star Wars universe and you'd still have a decent space-fantasy adventure film. Meanwhile Solo and RoS would still be piles of shit, with the added disadvantage of not having brand recognition to prop them up. And if The Fans(tm) aren't entitled, and their criticism is so accurate and necessary, why aren't they in Hollywood making all the Star Wars movies in the first place? Then nobody would complain, right? Because the movies would be perfect? Right?
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Post by clips7 on Dec 28, 2020 17:22:43 GMT
Just to clarify... Who is getting cleared of suspicion and or blame? Is it EAWARE or yourself being cleared of suspicion of some kind? Is it not buying games or buying only used that is getting blamed for something? Vindicated is the term for clearing blame of suspicion.
Do you mean justified? Sorry if this is out of left field... I am a bit confused .
I felt that Bioware and EA made ME3 as subpar sequel to ME2, with underwhelming dialogue and an atrocious, rushed ending. In my opinion they made a false advertisement of the final product, and that led me to preorder the game. After one of the biggest fan uproars the gaming industry ever faced, they released the extended ending free-DLC. Many people were satisfied with it. I wasn't. The practices that led to ME3, its endings and all the debacle that it caused were not heard by most of the AAA developers. Bioware themselves launched two products after, MEA and Anthem, plagued by more problems than ME3. Since then all the false advertisement, artificial hype generated by paid "journalists", games launching incomplete, the gamers serving as glorified beta-testers paying full price for an underdeveloped product, paying even more money via microtransctions and addictive practices more akin to a Casino, all that just got worse.
Personally, it made me wary of any kind of new game, gaming journalism, hype of any kind, and of the industry in general. So much that I don't consider myself a gamer anymore, I just casually play older games, and never buy new ones.
The vindication comes down to Bioware having to pull a trailer of Liara climbing a dead Reaper to save any prestige they still have in 2020, to generate some hope in all ME fans that they didn't kill their most beloved franchise after all their mediocrity in the last 8 years, the very same mediocrity they camouflaged as "artistic integrity" back in 2012.
I hope I could clarify my position this time around.
Well said....I think the last game i pre-ordered was Mortal Kombat 2 for the Sega Genesis.... .....you really have to make your own judgement as some journalists are paid to give good reviews or things of that nature. I don't rush out and buy game on day 1 anymore either....i just pick them up whenever i get the chance. But just look at how gaming companies operate today...look at the disaster of Cyberpunk's release.....now you see the dev's blaming upper management for the console release?....lol that is complete bulls**t. Anybody could see..even when they were testing the console versions that they was not ready...the dev's knew this and released it anyway....they already got their pre-orders that already had them make their profit on the game two-fold....companies know they can make a half-finished product, release it and gamers continue to fall for the okie-doke then complain when they get products like Cyberpunk and Fallout 76. Look at the bait and switch Naughty Dog did with Noel and Jess in that trailer....that trailer made you think Noel was alive and well during that particular part of the game.....Naughty Dog knew most folks didn't like the direction the game was going in after the leaks, so it tried to bait gamers into thinking he was alive in that custscene that they switched out with Jessie...just really shady stuff. So i get what you are saying as far as that goes...i don't pre-order and i just wait to get games when i can...for me there have been some good games this gen (ps4 -wise) God of War, Spiderman, The Evil Within 2, Nier Automata...etc....but idk....i still find myself playing alot of ME3 MP.....i still love how i can play that for a good 20 min romp and still get a great experience out of it... Dont want to write a book..but i understand your view on the endings as well...the MP as others have stated, you don't have to play and even if you do, you can purchase stuff through in-game creds, so you do have options to pay if you want...and the DLC's for ME3 are all pretty good.....some better than others, but the Citadel and the Leviathan are the ones i purchased and both of those are great...
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 28, 2020 18:03:07 GMT
I guess someone isn't ready to have this conversation.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 18:07:24 GMT
I felt that Bioware and EA made ME3 as subpar sequel to ME2, with underwhelming dialogue and an atrocious, rushed ending. In my opinion they made a false advertisement of the final product, and that led me to preorder the game. After one of the biggest fan uproars the gaming industry ever faced, they released the extended ending free-DLC. Many people were satisfied with it. I wasn't. The practices that led to ME3, its endings and all the debacle that it caused were not heard by most of the AAA developers. Bioware themselves launched two products after, MEA and Anthem, plagued by more problems than ME3. Since then all the false advertisement, artificial hype generated by paid "journalists", games launching incomplete, the gamers serving as glorified beta-testers paying full price for an underdeveloped product, paying even more money via microtransctions and addictive practices more akin to a Casino, all that just got worse.
Personally, it made me wary of any kind of new game, gaming journalism, hype of any kind, and of the industry in general. So much that I don't consider myself a gamer anymore, I just casually play older games, and never buy new ones.
The vindication comes down to Bioware having to pull a trailer of Liara climbing a dead Reaper to save any prestige they still have in 2020, to generate some hope in all ME fans that they didn't kill their most beloved franchise after all their mediocrity in the last 8 years, the very same mediocrity they camouflaged as "artistic integrity" back in 2012.
I hope I could clarify my position this time around.
Well said....I think the last game i pre-ordered was Mortal Kombat 2 for the Sega Genesis.... .....you really have to make your own judgement as some journalists are paid to give good reviews or things of that nature. I don't rush out and buy game on day 1 anymore either....i just pick them up whenever i get the chance. But just look at how gaming companies operate today...look at the disaster of Cyberpunk's release.....now you see the dev's blaming upper management for the console release?....lol that is complete bulls**t. Anybody could see..even when they were testing the console versions that they was not ready...the dev's knew this and released it anyway....they already got their pre-orders that already had them make their profit on the game two-fold....companies know they can make a half-finished product, release it and gamers continue to fall for the okie-doke then complain when they get products like Cyberpunk and Fallout 76. Look at the bait and switch Naughty Dog did with Noel and Jess in that trailer....that trailer made you think Noel was alive and well during that particular part of the game.....Naughty Dog knew most folks didn't like the direction the game was going in after the leaks, so it tried to bait gamers into thinking he was alive in that custscene that they switched out with Jessie...just really shady stuff. So i get what you are saying as far as that goes...i don't pre-order and i just wait to get games when i can...for me there have been some good games this gen (ps4 -wise) God of War, Spiderman, The Evil Within 2, Nier Automata...etc....but idk....i still find myself playing alot of ME3 MP.....i still love how i can play that for a good 20 min romp and still get a great experience out of it... Dont want to write a book..but i understand your view on the endings as well...the MP as others have stated, you don't have to play and even if you do, you can purchase stuff through in-game creds, so you do have options to pay if you want...and the DLC's for ME3 are all pretty good.....some better than others, but the Citadel and the Leviathan are the ones i purchased and both of those are great... They continue to do this because there's no severe penalty or consequence, besides some games flopping. The market continues to be open for abuse. It doesn't fly with me. ME3MP is one of the greatest gaming experiences I had in my life. A perfect storm, that BW couldn't replicate since then. It's interesting (and telling) that BW totally screwed the story (their previous strength), and totally nailed the gameplay (their previous weakness).
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Post by ahglock on Dec 28, 2020 20:11:29 GMT
Well said....I think the last game i pre-ordered was Mortal Kombat 2 for the Sega Genesis.... .....you really have to make your own judgement as some journalists are paid to give good reviews or things of that nature. I don't rush out and buy game on day 1 anymore either....i just pick them up whenever i get the chance. But just look at how gaming companies operate today...look at the disaster of Cyberpunk's release.....now you see the dev's blaming upper management for the console release?....lol that is complete bulls**t. Anybody could see..even when they were testing the console versions that they was not ready...the dev's knew this and released it anyway....they already got their pre-orders that already had them make their profit on the game two-fold....companies know they can make a half-finished product, release it and gamers continue to fall for the okie-doke then complain when they get products like Cyberpunk and Fallout 76. Look at the bait and switch Naughty Dog did with Noel and Jess in that trailer....that trailer made you think Noel was alive and well during that particular part of the game.....Naughty Dog knew most folks didn't like the direction the game was going in after the leaks, so it tried to bait gamers into thinking he was alive in that custscene that they switched out with Jessie...just really shady stuff. So i get what you are saying as far as that goes...i don't pre-order and i just wait to get games when i can...for me there have been some good games this gen (ps4 -wise) God of War, Spiderman, The Evil Within 2, Nier Automata...etc....but idk....i still find myself playing alot of ME3 MP.....i still love how i can play that for a good 20 min romp and still get a great experience out of it... Dont want to write a book..but i understand your view on the endings as well...the MP as others have stated, you don't have to play and even if you do, you can purchase stuff through in-game creds, so you do have options to pay if you want...and the DLC's for ME3 are all pretty good.....some better than others, but the Citadel and the Leviathan are the ones i purchased and both of those are great... They continue to do this because there's no severe penalty or consequence, besides some games flopping. The market continues to be open for abuse. It doesn't fly with me. ME3MP is one of the greatest gaming experiences I had in my life. A perfect storm, that BW couldn't replicate since then. It's interesting (and telling) that BW totally screwed the story (their previous strength), and totally nailed the gameplay (their previous weakness). The games don't technically flop as even with good games almost all sales are in the first week or so. So as long as your lie gets people to buy in the first weak plummeting sales don't hurt you that much, as all sales plummet theirs just a bit more dramatically. If people had memoirs and said fuck those guys next game then there may be a change. People don't though.
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