I feel somewhat vindicated.

No argument from me on this.

Nor arguing the wisdom of P.T. Barnum and the quote some attribute to him on "suckers & minutes"

I think it does matter. But you also need to speak out about why product A made less money than product B. And Andromeda lost money. We saw the article about how Andromeda made ~$110m dollars in net sales/revenue during its opening quarter. A game that cost $100m CA to make. Adjusting for currency and net revenue (~50% of net sales), we find out that Andromeda lost about ~$8-10m US for EA. Did Andromeda make its budget back eventually? Absolutely. Did it make a profit, eventually? Absolutely. But the RoI EA promised to investors wasn't there and most importantly not when EA wanted it to. Not to mention Andromeda fell way short of EA's sales expectations. As did Anthem. But Anthem was barely profitable, by basically not addressing Bioware's audience at all, i.e. an audience that had no real dissatisfaction toward Bioware.

As Anthem showed us, not much. The people that wanted Anthem, got Anthem regardless. There just isn't much interest in Bioware, as there was 10 years ago.

You just wonder whether hiring a few more people here and there and taking a bit more time might have averted some of their losses both in fans and investor confidence. Granted the reasons these projects go wrong is complex but I can't help thinking there is a false economy behind some of the decisions they make. That's not to say that decent financial control is a bad thing either but rather there is balance to be struck. Maybe its a bit harsh but there has been a move from creative endeavour to 'nuts and bolts' trading on a name. Not necessarily in all aspects of a title but something in the gameplay or writing goes awry - I think there is a concerted effort to broaden the appeal of a sequel and get as many people on the bandwagon as possible. When that goes well you get an ME2 or ME3 MP (somewhat subjective) but all in all I'm not sure it does you any favours.

I was sceptical about Anthem prelaunch, have not been convinced by what I have read since and haven't tried it. Theoretically a blend of MP and story/world progression would have been right up my street - I think the idea is good but tackling something like that requires a lot of things to be pulling in the same direction. Obviously that wasn't the case. Despite not having played it my perception does lean towards vindication at not pre ordering that one.

100% this. IIRC the loot and economy was so bad in ME1 it was irrevocably broken.

www.polygon.com/2021/2/24/22276485/anthem-next-redesign-bioware-ea-canceled


And the vindication continues...

Anthem is dead. Long live Mass Effect.



I really wanted to be in the meeting that decided Anthem's fate and ME's future. Maybe disagreement from Casey's part led to his resign?

So this thread is about the OP reveling in any bad news and public criticisms about the studio that made some of their favorite games? That's just sad.

If there is ever a way back, from where Bioware is, how is it ever not going to be accomplished by, at least, some criticism? We can all just dig our heads in the ground and shut off any complaints, but the truth is that trust in Bioware is low and the only interest it generates, is through one controversy, after the other. And I am sure, I am 100% sure you can find a discord or a twitter group or a ResetEra thread that is nothing but 100% praise and positivity for Bioware's future like it's sunshine and roses, but that's simply not the reality of the matter. If Android Wilson has to go up to investors and call Bioware's recent games "blips", when before he gave them nothing but praise, you can understand that the gig is up. Because there is zero chance Wilson would ever say a bad thing about any of EA's studios and brands to investors, unless he couldn't put a spin on it.

I'm not saying that it's what happens all day long, but when someone tries to strike a conversation about Bioware, the conversation about the present and future is rarely ever positive. And I think with good reason.

And this is not just on me. We had Mac Walters admit fault for the ME3 endings in an IGN interview, if I recall correctly, we've had Mark Darrah say in the eurogamer interview how Andromeda was deeply flawed and even Android Wilson called Bioware's last few games "blips" to investors in the latest EA investor call. Are Bioware devs and EA's CEO wrong?

Now, I've gone on and said that, under Christian's leadership, we will not see a game worse than an 8/10 and I stand by it. And an 8/10 is a great score ... for either a yearly franchise or a standalone title. It's not a good enough score for a Dragon Age or a Mass Effect game. And there's also the question of how long will Christian stick with Bioware. I can guarantee you, he's been noticed by other studios that are willing to pay better and afford him less stress. I won't be surprised if Christian is the next big departure from Bioware. And I doubt Mike Gamble will stay for the entirety of Will Continue's development either.

The thing is that I don't think the online community represents any group accurately anymore.  I know I left plenty of places with Mass Effect 3 because of how people responded to my feeling that Mass Effect 3 was a fine game and I won't let what I might not like about the ending ruin that.

Okay Mac Walters said he would take "responsibility" for the Mass Effect 3 endings.  Alright, no idea what that does for the future aside from seeing where the problems that everyone jumped on claimed was the worst thing.  With him saying that Andromeda was a "deeply flawed game" he also said that he thought if released in a different window when not around so many games that focused on one thing it would have been an 8/10 game.  That doesn't make me think he was that the future is negative either.  Andrew Wilson's comments about "blips on the radar" again doesn't make me think they are that negative, but outliers and things will change.  So they are looking backwards and seeing the problems and saying they don't think the games were perfect unlike another recent studio with their game that makes Anthem look like a near perfect game and made less fixes to it then BioWare did for Anthem or Andromeda.

If you are claiming that 8/10 is good enough for anything but a BioWare title I think that proves that its impossible to make a game that the people claiming the future for BioWare is doomed.  Not because the games aren't going to be good, but they are being held to a standard beyond what the other games are.  Mass Effect 1 was a flawed game for when you hear people talk about it you hear a lot of negatives around it as well for things like the Mako, issues exploring, or combat systems rarely get a great response either.  The only real positive I hear about Mass Effect 1 was the story and I normally hear at least a standout thing for any other BioWare game.  As an example I normally hear positives about the Javelins and exploration, while the end game loop was the problem for a lot of people.

Privacy and the job security that affords is not a ridiculous reason. Nobody wants to be known in the industry as "the person that outs the problems". You're just committing career suicide. It doesn't afford you the anonymity. And if I want to keep being talked to, I am going to need to keep the trust. As for places that I go to that aren't related to people in the industry, well, you know where the big places of congregation are. You don't need me telling you. Suffice to say that, while people in important places do inhabit ResetEra, the ones that haven't been banned yet, at least, it isn't representative of the big picture. I am sorry to inform people that, for better or worse, about 73% of US adults use youtube. And some channels do belong to game sites and even independent youtubers have large followings and even those youtubers have gathering spots that they discuss news between themselves. Whether you like it or not, people do watch these channels. Large numbers of people. Much larger than they gather on twitter, where it's a dwarfed 22%. As to who these youtubers are and where do they communicate, I am sure you can figure it out yourself.


Because of expectations, because of attachment and because of negative feelings. Bioware has lost an entire console generation with mediocre to bad launches. It's not gaining new fans. An 8/10 title from Bioware is a "meh" to the public. A bargain bin title. It may generate some good will, for someone to look forward to in the next time a Bioware title hits a bargain bin. It doesn't generate launch sales. And since a game generates 50% of its lifetime revenue in its first 10 weeks, Bioware needs those early sales. It can get them from old fans, if they still know how to approach them. It's easy money.


I do not condone anyone sending death threats to anyone. For any reason. I can understand the frustration and to anyone who has those feelings here or elsewhere, I'm available to talk. That is not OK.

Call me a whiny bitch, if it makes you feel better.

It shows a lot about what and how Bioware prioritizes nowadays. They will censor the buttshot, but wouldn't change the endings. Am I supposed to root for that? Because, after all, my primary concern was a shot focusing on a butt. That was offensive. Being taken for a ride with the endings was obviously not.

And yes, I am invested in Bioware, I have been for ... 23 years now? I am invested in Mass Effect. We are the fans. We spent time and money promoting this franchise. In a sense, it belongs to us as much as it belongs to Bioware. Effectively, without a fanbase, without a devoted fanbase, no franchise can exist. It's a luxury product. Star Wars, arguably the biggest entertainment franchise on the planet, can't make money for Disney outside of the Mandalorian. Disney can't make a post on any social media platform and not get swarmed by angry fans. To some people, some entertainment products mean more. Just like to some people it's their football team, or their baseball team, or their basketball team etc. It's the same damn thing. Imagine if the Lakers hit the court, losing every game in the season and Lebron coming out and saying that it's easy to be a critic from the stands, how the fans are "entitled" for wanting to see the Lakers win and that they won't sacrifice their "athletic integrity" for a win. Who is going to put up with that? Who is not going to be furious with the Lakers, after that? What do you think the reaction is going to be? "Ah, cheers mate, guess I'll go support the Golden State Warriors, then." I don't fucking think so.


I'm not here to tell you that you shouldn't like ME3. Even if I berate it on almost every aspect, it does get some things right. And people should advocate for it. The point isn't to create an echo chamber. But all opinions should be heard and heard freely and equally. It can boggle my mind how you liked ME3, but I do understand that you do. And that's enough for me. I like Andromeda about as much as ME3 and yet, here I am, advocating for a sequel to it. I think it's a bad time to make it, but I do think that Bioware should absolutely make it. And I wouldn't be in favour of Bioware making it, had I not come to discuss it with people right here. Opinions can change. My opinion can change, it has changed. But I also can't disregard the facts. Damage has been done, the outlook isn't good and Bioware needs to make the impossible happen, if Dread Wolf is the going to bounce them back. At least, so far, I see it as impossible.


While what other studios do is not irrelevant, as no studio exists in a vacuum, none of Bioware's recent blunders instills trust in the future. Trust needs to be rebuilt and, I'm sorry to say this, but even in the event that the LE is a massive success that sells near to ME3 levels, which I doubt, is not a vote of confidence for the future, but rather an affirmation that we are stuck no further than 2012. It proves that the fanbase that liked what ME1 and ME2 built upon is still there, but just rejects post ME3 Bioware. It doesn't mean that fixes Will Continue's prospects.



Maybe that's the thing. The problems with the MEs were largely on the technical side, which persisted in newer games as well. But perhaps the previous games offered something that the new games don't. Or perhaps some damage occurred that turned the fanbase away from future Bioware/ME projects. I've said it before and I'll say it again; Bioware struck gold, especially with ME2, in audience acceptance and attachment. It's not easily repeatable and less so exceeded. If you want to retire that and start over with something new, you need to outdo yourself. And Bioware is simply not equipped with that, at the moment. People say that Andromeda was unfairly criticized, because it was a single game being compared to a trilogy. ME2 had a largely new cast, with only two returning members. With the exception of Jacob, who people were mostly indifferent to, the cast was well loved. All the new characters had their fans and in exceeding numbers. Why didn't people react similarly with Andromeda? What prevented them? An 8/10 game, as good as it is, is not going to win people over. It's going to limp Bioware to the next title, perhaps. Or perhaps not. Things are really tight right now.