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Post by Shinobu on Dec 19, 2020 21:03:39 GMT
I spent the last week going over the visuals in the trailer and I think I've figured out some things. I haven't looked at many analysis videos, so I don't know if this has been uncovered by others yet. The few I saw focused on the dialogue, not the images.
This is my first foray into video game analysis, so please feel free to criticize. I just ask that you do it with goodwill. 
This is an ESA/Hubble video of the Witch's Broom:
The quick version: The trailer opens with the camera entering the Milky Way from the region of the Far Rim/Perseus Veil. We hear "we know now that in the early years of the 20th century, this world was being watched." This means we are hearing radio broadcasts from the past; as we approach the source of the signals (Council space and Earth) we will intercept more recent transmissions. Also,
Legion: "We have watched organics for over 3 centuries."
We see an Alderson disc, an artificial megastructure better suited for synthetic life than organic life. Legion: "A megastructure. The closest analog you have is a Dyson Sphere. When completed, we will all upload to it. We have been building the megastructure for 264 years." There were no known megastructures at the time of the OT, but it could have been built in secret behind the Veil.
The Geth (whether dead or alive) will be important to the plot of the new game.
We see an unknown gas giant. It could be one of 30 known planets in the ME wiki. My best guess is Trigestis in the Phoenix Massing.
All of the gas giants in the wiki are sources of He-3 fuel that is used to fly from system to system. This may indicate that the galaxy is relying on old fashioned travel rather than mass relay travel.
We see a bunch of rocks. I think this is a destroyed planet. Then we see debris from human/other races. Then a dead relay. Which relay is it? The one that was destroyed in the Bahak system in Arrival was completely blown apart and this one has intact rings. It may just be a generic "relay" to show that all of the ones active at the time of the war are defunct because Shepard chose Destroy. In the worst case scenario, it's the Sol Relay (Charon).
It's possible none of the mass relays are operational and everyone is getting around the old-fashioned way using He-3 fuel.
The next thing we see is the Witch's Broom Nebula in the constellation Cygnus. It is in the same arm of the galaxy as Earth but it is 1400 light years toward Cygnus in the direction of the Krogan DMZ and the Silean Nebula. We pan down to see the Mudskipper flying toward a snowy planet. Liara finds the left side of an N7 helmet in the snow and smiles. She has crows feet and smile lines, so some time has passed since we saw her last. At a guess, I'd say ~650 years, which would bring the MW to the same time frame as Andromeda.
What planet is Liara on? She's not wearing a breather mask.
It is cold, but not so cold that you need to cover your face. It has a breathable atmosphere, so it can't be Alchera. (Alchera has a methane ammonia atmosphere.) It has 3 moons, so it's not Earth. It was attacked by Reapers. It's at least 1400 light years toward Cygnus from Sol. (Not Noveria.)
It is a LOT further than 1400 light years (more like 14 THOUSAND light years) in that direction, but there is a planet that otherwise fits this description:
Hyetiana in the Sliean Nebula. PeeBee's homeworld.
From the Mass Effect wiki:
"Hyetiana serves as a bastion of research for the asari, boasting multiple observation outposts, glacial drilling stations, and educational institutions. While the planet's average temperature hovers near freezing, the equatorial band contains oceans and many fresh-water rivers. Xenobiologists of all stripes often visited the planet, as its expansive facilities were a haven for the life sciences.
The Reapers destroyed Hyetiana's spaceports and its uniformed defense forces. As with other asari planets, the Reapers forced the heavily biotic population into surrender through threats of massive retaliation rather than assault by husks alone."
Surface temp: 1 degree C
Population pre-War: 119M, mostly Asari (but this planet is in Elcor space)
I don't know why there would be an N7 helmet there -- did Shepard survive the War and go on to break other helmets on new planets? Is it some other N7's helmet? Did someone or something else transport the armor to this place?
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Dec 19, 2020 21:10:50 GMT
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Post by Little Bengel on Dec 19, 2020 21:13:21 GMT
Can't see the video either, sorry.  EDIT: Nevermind, it's here now! |
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 19, 2020 21:15:55 GMT
Sorry, I've fixed it now.
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Dec 19, 2020 21:27:52 GMT
Nice analysis and interesting that this planet could be hyetiana and not alchera as many people think.
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 19, 2020 21:47:07 GMT
Nice analysis and interesting that this planet could be hyetiana and not alchera as many people think. Thank you! I checked Alchera on the ME wiki and it has a surface temp of -22C and a "thick ammonia and methane atmosphere," so Liara definitely wouldn't be smiling if she were walking around there without a breather mask.
I think that piece of helmet is a red herring to make us think it's the one Shepard lost in ME2, but that one has been recovered. So maybe Shepard lost another helmet post Reaper war, or maybe it's not Shepard's helmet. Or maybe it was a piece of Shepard's armor some geth tried to plug a hole with.
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Post by twalicious on Dec 19, 2020 22:03:20 GMT
Wow! Awesome insight. Thank you for sharing. I never would have looked further into the ring and its connection with the Geth.
However, I still don't see how wrinkles on Liara means she's so much older let alone 600 years.
It easily could've been the rendering on the trailer, and Liara has wrinkles in certain cut-scenes in ME3 while way older asari did not. She looks young to me with visible freckles (freckles fade in most cases with age), and I don't think we can know until we hear her speak. Maybe I see her as young still because she's hauling ass up the side of that reaper and not limping with old joints. Especially after all the action/fighting she's done.
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 19, 2020 22:44:41 GMT
Wow! Awesome insight. Thank you for sharing. I never would have looked further into the ring and its connection with the Geth. However, I still don't see how wrinkles on Liara means she's so much older let alone 600 years. It easily could've been the rendering on the trailer, and Liara has wrinkles in certain cut-scenes in ME3 while way older asari did not. She looks young to me with visible freckles (freckles fade in most cases with age), and I don't think we can know until we hear her speak. Maybe I see her as young still because she's hauling ass up the side of that reaper and not limping with old joints. Especially after all the action/fighting she's done. Well, I could be wrong. I love Shepard and wouldn't mind playing as her again, but I don't think that is what is going to happen.
We see a new ship and a new crew. There's no reason to have either if the game is set soon after the trilogy with Shepard as the PC, unless it's immediately after ME3 and Shepard is looking for the Normandy. Also, I think the devs are unable to account for all of the choices made throughout the trilogy and carry them forward, so they'd rather have some sort of break so they don't have to keep track of whether Conrad Verner got shot in the foot in ME2. Even more important characters like Wrex could be never recruited, shot on Virmire, shot on the Citadel, or alive. It's just too much to ask of Bioware to think of dialogue/missions to cover all of those outcomes. They got flak for having Mordin/Padok Wiiks, Wrex/Wreav, Legion/Not Legion in ME3. It just gets more complicated going forward.
So, a time jump would be good way to clear out all but a few characters (Liara, Grunt, Urdnot Mordin). The problem with a time jump is that it kills off beloved characters like Joker, Tali, Garrus, Miranda, the VS, etc. My Shepard romanced Garrus and would be devastated if she's woken up hundreds of years after he died of old age, and I'm sure others who didn't romance Liara would be similarly upset. The devs would get "No Shepard without Vakarian" and "House on Rannoch" quoted at them until they die if they bring back Shepard without Shepard's crew. So, I think Shepard and the rest of the crew are most likely out of the picture.
Like Joker says: "That's just my opinion, though. No need to go spreading it around."
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Dec 19, 2020 22:56:41 GMT
If there's gonna be a new ship and crew (which i'll hate if that's what happens), why gamble said to the lead animator's tweet for the nme in a way that seemed like we may know who's this protagonist.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 19, 2020 23:19:31 GMT
If there's gonna be a new ship and crew (which i'll hate if that's what happens), why gamble said to the lead animator's tweet for the nme in a way that seemed like we may know who's this protagonist. I'm not even sure Gamble knows who the new protagonist is yet. I mean maybe if they kept this totally under wraps and its only 2 years off or something, sure. But 4-5 years, they are probably have a very basic framework that they think they are going towards all of which is subject to change.
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 19, 2020 23:27:14 GMT
If there's gonna be a new ship and crew (which i'll hate if that's what happens), why gamble said to the lead animator's tweet for the nme in a way that seemed like we may know who's this protagonist. I can't find the tweet, but IIRC, he just said that we would recognize someone in the background, so he isn't necessarily only referring to the humanoid in the middle.
So it could be Grunt or Urdnot Mordin. Or, if the Andromeda galaxy is connected to the Milky Way it could be the Salarian Pathfinder, the Asari pathfinder, Kesh, the Moshae, etc.
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Dec 19, 2020 23:28:45 GMT
If there's gonna be a new ship and crew (which i'll hate if that's what happens), why gamble said to the lead animator's tweet for the nme in a way that seemed like we may know who's this protagonist. I'm not even sure Gamble knows who the new protagonist is yet. I mean maybe if they kept this totally under wraps and its only 2 years off or something, sure. But 4-5 years, they are probably have a very basic framework that they think they are going towards all of which is subject to change. Could be but if he says all that stuff to drag and hype people for nothing, it's gonna be pretty bad. |
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Dec 19, 2020 23:32:45 GMT
If there's gonna be a new ship and crew (which i'll hate if that's what happens), why gamble said to the lead animator's tweet for the nme in a way that seemed like we may know who's this protagonist. I can't find the tweet, but IIRC, he just said that we would recognize someone in the background, so he isn't necessarily only referring to the humanoid in the middle.
So it could be Grunt or Urdnot Mordin. Or, if the Andromeda galaxy is connected to the Milky Way it could be the Salarian Pathfinder, the Asari pathfinder, Kesh, the Moshae, etc.
Maybe. The middle figure seemed like ryder cause of the big glass on the helmet and the collar. Here's the tweet |
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 19, 2020 23:33:18 GMT
A few clarifications:
I know we find debris from a Geth Dyson bubble in ME3, which is probably what legion is referring to. I just think the Alderson disc may have been a second try.
Triodia in the Hekate system doesn't really fit my criteria, but I kept it as a possibility because it has "a Geth presence."
With further reflection I do think the Relay is the the Sol relay (Charon). I didn't call it by name because I didn't want to get into a discussion of how Charon is pronounced. Apparently it's pronounced wrong on purpose to honor the wife (Charlene) of the guy who named it, so it's pronounced "Sharon."
The Witch's broom will only look like that if you are looking at it from Earth, so I am convinced we are flying from Sol to the lower left side of the galaxy disc.
I'm not saying I think PeeBee will be in the game, although it's possible. She's just the only one to mention the planet in question.
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Post by vonuber on Dec 19, 2020 23:37:10 GMT
However, I still don't see how wrinkles on Liara means she's so much older let alone 600 years. It easily could've been the rendering on the trailer, and Liara has wrinkles in certain cut-scenes in ME3 while way older asari did not. She looks young to me with visible freckles (freckles fade in most cases with age), and I don't think we can know until we hear her speak. Maybe I see her as young still because she's hauling ass up the side of that reaper and not limping with old joints. Especially after all the action/fighting she's done.
She must have been 600 years when old talking to Javik then, judging by what people are saying.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 19, 2020 23:40:10 GMT
Well, I could be wrong. I love Shepard and wouldn't mind playing as her again, but I don't think that is what is going to happen. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would like to play as Shepard again. Why would Shepard be looking for the SR2? If ems is above 2600, the SR2 is seen flying off the unknown planet. And since Shepard survives with ems above 3100, it's likely the crew and squad will return to see Shepard healing from his/her wounds. The guy did say some of the details have changed, it happened so long ago. Urdnot Mordin? Is Mordin going to return as a krogan? I have no interest in having one or two characters returning since they are no more important than other characters. What role would they have and why? Would there be the option to avoid them? Or will Bioware set it up where the main character has to see them to advance the game? I'm not a fan of a time jump whether it's a sequel to ME3 or MEA. I like to see the galaxy rebuilding after the reapers have been destroyed, the problems each species faces and what possible conflicts arise. With a sequel to MEA, I like to see what happens with the Kett. They still pose a threat to the Initiative. What explanation would be given if the game takes place x number of years later? The kett packed up their bags and went home?
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Dec 19, 2020 23:41:32 GMT
A few clarifications: I know we find debris from a Geth Dyson bubble in ME3, which is probably what legion is referring to. I just think the Alderson disc may have been a second try. Triodia in the Hekate system doesn't really fit my criteria, but I kept it as a possibility because it has "a Geth presence." With further reflection I do think the Relay is the the Sol relay (Charon). I didn't call it by name because I didn't want to get into a discussion of how Charon is pronounced. Apparently it's pronounced wrong on purpose to honor the wife (Charlene) of the guy who named it, so it's pronounced "Sharon." The Witch's broom will only look like that if you are looking at it from Earth, so I am convinced we are flying from Sol to the lower left side of the galaxy disc. I'm not saying I think PeeBee will be in the game, although it's possible. She's just the only one to mention the planet in question.It might be some other planet too but it will be very good if it's peebee's homeworld and i really hope she's in it along with the other members and ryder ofc. It'll be interesting if she learns that the reapers killed most of the citizens and probably her family. This is gonna be a way for her to turn back, if they are gonna connect both galaxies. |
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Post by Polka Dot on Dec 20, 2020 1:08:17 GMT
So it could be Grunt or Urdnot Mordin. Possibly, although either of them would represent canonization of choices. She must have been 600 years when old talking to Javik then, judging by what people are saying. I don't see a hint of crow's feet or laugh lines - just the usual asari scales.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 20, 2020 1:10:14 GMT
Shinobu Are you the new Shadow Broker?! 
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 20, 2020 1:24:29 GMT
However, I still don't see how wrinkles on Liara means she's so much older let alone 600 years. It easily could've been the rendering on the trailer, and Liara has wrinkles in certain cut-scenes in ME3 while way older asari did not. She looks young to me with visible freckles (freckles fade in most cases with age), and I don't think we can know until we hear her speak. Maybe I see her as young still because she's hauling ass up the side of that reaper and not limping with old joints. Especially after all the action/fighting she's done.
She must have been 600 years when old talking to Javik then, judging by what people are saying.
I don't see any wrinkles in this picture. 
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 20, 2020 1:52:02 GMT
Well, I could be wrong. I love Shepard and wouldn't mind playing as her again, but I don't think that is what is going to happen. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would like to play as Shepard again. Why would Shepard be looking for the SR2? If ems is above 2600, the SR2 is seen flying off the unknown planet. And since Shepard survives with ems above 3100, it's likely the crew and squad will return to see Shepard healing from his/her wounds. The guy did say some of the details have changed, it happened so long ago. Urdnot Mordin? Is Mordin going to return as a krogan? I have no interest in having one or two characters returning since they are no more important than other characters. What role would they have and why? Would there be the option to avoid them? Or will Bioware set it up where the main character has to see them to advance the game? I'm not a fan of a time jump whether it's a sequel to ME3 or MEA. I like to see the galaxy rebuilding after the reapers have been destroyed, the problems each species faces and what possible conflicts arise. With a sequel to MEA, I like to see what happens with the Kett. They still pose a threat to the Initiative. What explanation would be given if the game takes place x number of years later? The kett packed up their bags and went home? I can't multiquote to save my life, so I'll just use numbers: 1) Yes, I'm sure people would like to play as Shepard. If it were possible to keep track of all the variables and set a game immediately after ME3 with the whole team I'd be happy to play it. However, I think it's technically too difficult to pull off, so I don't think it will happen.
2) It would take a long time to fix the Normandy, so if the game is set after Shep leaves the hospital but before the Normandy is spaceworthy, she could theoretically get a new crew to look for it. But since Liara is ON the Normandy in most people's games, I don't think this is likely at all.
3) No one is going to be happy if they retcon a bunch of stuff and then say "the stargazer got this part wrong." The most Bioware will do is insist Liara is alive even if you killed her.
4) Now that I think about it, Urdnot Mordin probably won't appear as she is born only if Bakara and Wrex survive and the genophage is cured. That's too many ifs, so they probably won't open that can of worms. My guess is Liara will be the Hackett of the new game and give the protagonist jobs to do. If that is the case you won't be able to avoid her.
5) I would love to see the galaxy rebuild immediately post-war as well, but as I stated earlier I don't think it can happen. You've played with all the variables. How would you construct a mission post reaper war that takes into account every variable possible? If you can do it, please tell Bioware how it can be done.
We can still see what happens with the Kett because no time will have passed post-Andromeda. The Milky way would have caught up to the timeline of Andromeda.
2185 The Arks leave. They travel 634 years and arrive in Andromeda in 2819.
2186 Shepard ends the Reaper War. She lives out her life and dies. ME5 takes place around 2825 when the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies are somehow reunited by an intergalaxy relay. Ryder is still alive and the Kett are still a problem, but now instant travel is possible between the two galaxies. Maybe the remnant tech is needed to make the Milky way more habitable. Maybe the Geth are needed to fight the Kett. Not sure how it will fit together, but something along those lines.
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 20, 2020 1:55:10 GMT
A few clarifications: I know we find debris from a Geth Dyson bubble in ME3, which is probably what legion is referring to. I just think the Alderson disc may have been a second try. Triodia in the Hekate system doesn't really fit my criteria, but I kept it as a possibility because it has "a Geth presence." With further reflection I do think the Relay is the the Sol relay (Charon). I didn't call it by name because I didn't want to get into a discussion of how Charon is pronounced. Apparently it's pronounced wrong on purpose to honor the wife (Charlene) of the guy who named it, so it's pronounced "Sharon." The Witch's broom will only look like that if you are looking at it from Earth, so I am convinced we are flying from Sol to the lower left side of the galaxy disc. I'm not saying I think PeeBee will be in the game, although it's possible. She's just the only one to mention the planet in question.It might be some other planet too but it will be very good if it's peebee's homeworld and i really hope she's in it along with the other members and ryder ofc. It'll be interesting if she learns that the reapers killed most of the citizens and probably her family. This is gonna be a way for her to turn back, if they are gonna connect both galaxies. It may be silly of me, but one of the things I like about Hyetiana is that it's in Elcor space, so we may get to see artillery-Elcor at some point. It makes sense that PeeBee's dad is an Elcor if her mom lived on Hyetiana.
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 20, 2020 1:59:15 GMT
So it could be Grunt or Urdnot Mordin. Possibly, although either of them would represent canonization of choices. She must have been 600 years when old talking to Javik then, judging by what people are saying. I don't see a hint of crow's feet or laugh lines - just the usual asari scales. You're right, Grunt can die on the suicide mission and Mordin would only be born if the Genophage is cured, so they probably aren't in the background then. Who is canonically alive? Maybe the person in the background is someone from Andromeda like the Moshae or someone from Ryder's team.
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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 20, 2020 2:01:06 GMT
Cool analysis, I missed the in depth analysis, more common in the ye olde days of ME fandom. I also watched your "Scott Falls Down" clip, I'm like this isn't what I think it is, it is! LOL.
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 20, 2020 2:08:11 GMT
Shinobu Are you the new Shadow Broker?!  Are you referring to the terrible voice modulation or my Yagh sized butt? 
I was going to use my real voice, but thought better of it since people in my real life might find out what I do in my off time and make my life hell.
If you're referring to the information, I just read between the lines. Michael Gamble told us to "Look. And listen closely." I saw that everyone was listening closely, but no one really seemed to be looking, so I went in assuming that everything we saw in the trailer was there for a specific reason and then set out to find what that reason could be. I'm quite proud of finding that nebula, although it's pretty famous if one looks for pictures of nebulae. It's one of two pieces of information (the other being the Alderson disc) that I will trust. I could definitely be wrong about the relay being in Sol, and Hyetiana, and the gas giant.
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Its never too late. LOL. 
