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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 10, 2022 6:46:30 GMT
Thanks to Reddit and necrowaif we can rule out Morrigan for DAD. Atleast for the main game. Claudia Black SEP ONLY 1 ACCOUNT @theclaudiablackI have two big things coming out - one in December/January and one probably late 2023 that I just finished filming and I can’t talk about either of them. They’re juicy. Amy Evans @amypiscesTwo things coming? *prays for the new Dragon Age to be one of them but knows we can’t find out until we play the game* Claudia Black SEP ONLY 1 ACCOUNT @theclaudiablackSpoiler - I’m not in this one. Interessing and perhaps for some disappointing but i am glad (to be fair i won´t mind her that much) that Morrigan takes a break. Well, that settles it. If Morrigan's connection to Mythal and her potential status as inheritor of the Well of Sorrows isn't enough to get her into DA:D, which is going to be a rather elfy game, there is no way she will show up when these topics are no longer the main focus. I'm surprised to find out that Claudia Black is less than thrilled about the idea of playing Morrigan again. She's only done it twice and it's been nearly a decade since the last time. Thst last bit wasn’t from her. Her tweet was just “Spoiler - I’m not in this one”
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 10, 2022 8:00:21 GMT
Well, that settles it. If Morrigan's connection to Mythal and her potential status as inheritor of the Well of Sorrows isn't enough to get her into DA:D, which is going to be a rather elfy game, there is no way she will show up when these topics are no longer the main focus. As I've said, it could be that Mythal is keeping her in the wings to be the "Inheritor" in the next age, which Flemeth seemed to hint was imminent. If Solas is successful then it would be a new age because essentially the world is going to be re-set. On the other hand, if Solas is not successful then Morrigan is probably going to be Mythal's Plan B. She would still be the Inheritor of Mythal's power (the bit that wasn't given to Solas) but working along different lines.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 10, 2022 8:08:45 GMT
i hate to admit from a story point of view i would prefer Velanna who i despise. Or had Bioware already forgotten that Awakening had ever existed? Well they ignored the whole significance of Vigil's Keep in DAI, since that would have been the most obvious place to go for news of the Wardens, not seeking out a solitary guy called Blackwall. Also, Clarel seeking permission for the Wardens to enter Ferelden made no sense when they had an officially sanctioned base there and, if the Hero died in DAO, it was even being run by an Orlesian Warden. Plus Teagan harked back to the days of Sophie Dryden for a reason why he objected to outside organisations having power within Ferelden, when there was already a highly successful more recent precedent set by the monarch and the Grey Wardens. So, for the most part the events of DAA do seem to have been conveniently side-lined. That said, they might still bring back Velanna but possibly in opposition to our Hero, having joined up with the Dread Wolf. If Solas is trying to fix the Blight, then that would give Velanna a vested interest in helping him, both for her own sake and that of her sister.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 10, 2022 8:16:34 GMT
However. I want to see resolution to the Warden going off to find the cure for the taint storyline - the epilogue of trespasser, if the warden romanced leliana, states that they returned from their quest for the cure to Leliana, which, to my mind, implies a degree of success. I want that resolved and confirmed to some degree - Ali and the warden do not need to be there for them to do that If they don't quietly forget that whole search for a cure, which, let's face it, was just an excuse to explain why they weren't involved in the Warden plot, then I think it might well be resolved in DA:D because part of Solas' motivation is down to the presence of the Blight, which he believes will ultimately destroy the world, and finding an alternative solution may be the task of our new Hero. I've pointed out elsewhere that allegedly Merrill succeeded in cleansing the eluvian, which was tainted with the Blight, with knowledge from the ancient demon. Assuming this wasn't just a temporary fix, that would suggest there is a cure out there. We just need to find it. That could be what drove the Hero into the west, following some sort of lead and even if ultimately fruitless, it maybe we will get another letter from them explaining their logic in going there and what they discovered.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 10, 2022 11:01:23 GMT
I think it is a good idea that BioWare is trimming some of the characters from the prior games for both of their older IPs. Having characters not show up in every game I think is a good approach for when the major reason to have them return is only the fact they are returning. If they are important to that story then it could be a good idea, but just to have them show up to say hello just seems to be pandering instead of having a good story involving them.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 10, 2022 11:34:22 GMT
If they are important to that story then it could be a good idea, but just to have them show up to say hello just seems to be pandering instead of having a good story involving them. This has always been my argument. Leaving aside whether they could be dead or not, it made sense these three characters showing up in the places that they did in DA2 and DAI. For a start off they were based in the south but there were also other connections that had been established in DAO. By contrast, there is no reason for Leliana to be up north, particularly now she is either Divine or retired from active duty; Alistair is King of Ferelden or a drunk or a Grey Warden whose main base is in the south. Morrigan could have business in the north but only if she has been made aware of the Dread Wolf and wants to get involved. She had already left the Inquisition before Trespasser, so it is quite possible she is out of the loop or doesn't want to interfere. The same argument applies to all the other characters that were based in the south. There needs to be a strong reason for them to be up north and/or involved in the story going forward. There are very few who actually fulfil those conditions, apart from being a favourite of the writing team (I'm looking at you Varric).
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 10, 2022 13:02:46 GMT
You want to play a game with Leliana, play DAO. Wanna play with Morrigan, play DAO. You cant really expect to have every character get featured in every subsequent game. Not to mention the different choices that happen for all these. Why would BW have to account for a character that can die in one or several of the previous games. It's better to have closed stories and the odd homage in between. No dev can account for all the choices and has to go withhh some sort of "canon".
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Post by bierkrug on Nov 10, 2022 16:37:43 GMT
Why would BW have to account for a character that can die in one or several of the previous games. Because they've set the characters up that way. Leliana keeps coming back, Morrigan has that old god kid, Alistair has a pretty important role in Bioware canon, even Fenris is prancing around again. The characters are set up in a way so they can come back, of course I want to see them again.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Nov 10, 2022 16:47:57 GMT
or a drunk or a Grey Warden whose main base is in the south. Drunk Alistair doesn´t exist anymore. It´s now Grey Warden, King or dead Alistair. "Disgusted, Alistair abandoned the Grey Wardens, and for years lived in disgraced exile in the Free Marches. Several years ago, Alistair was retrieved from his exile, sobered up, and eventually re-admitted to the order...though he chose to do so in Orlais rather than his homeland." dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Alistair_(Inquisition)
Morrigan has that old god kid This said it all. Old God Kid aka Kieran doesn´t exist in every possible world state and also not in the default aka "Bioware canon". Your problem is that you don´t seem to understand that your worldstates aka choices are just one of many. Some quantum characters like Alistair won´t likely returning because besides of his importance in DAO he could be a Grey Warden, King or dead. And Alistair doesn´t only have one possible death but severall so again why should he return? Also he doesn´t have (also Leliana) a good reason to be in Tevinter / in the north.
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Post by bierkrug on Nov 10, 2022 17:09:52 GMT
Your problem is that you don´t seem to understand that your worldstates aka choices are just one of many. There are post DAO worldstates where Leliana is dead, yet she is in DAI. Fenris kicked the bucket in my game, yet he's in the tie-ins, etc pp. What is your point? Sometimes Bioware just picks one or a couple (probably tracked through telemetry or whatever) and runs with it.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Nov 10, 2022 17:23:56 GMT
There are post DAO worldstates where Leliana is dead, yet she is in DAI. And this has been a very controversial decision and that end of the Trespasser she becomes dead again. It´s just another media but for the games!!! Bioware have consider your decision that Fenris could be dead. My points that you should open yourself for all possible events regarding a character then sticking to your personal playthrough/s. By the way do know what Bioware means with the term quantum character?
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 10, 2022 18:19:21 GMT
Why would BW have to account for a character that can die in one or several of the previous games. Because they've set the characters up that way. Leliana keeps coming back, Morrigan has that old god kid, Alistair has a pretty important role in Bioware canon, even Fenris is prancing around again. The characters are set up in a way so they can come back, of course I want to see them again. That is your personal story. Alistair is king in mine and there is no reason to show up much. I dont know what an old god kid is and Morrigan never had one. BW would need a hell of good explanations for all the things players never heard about.
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Post by bierkrug on Nov 10, 2022 22:17:01 GMT
King Alistair could be in Tevinter to discuss a trade agreement for watermelons for all we know. He had no business being in DA2 and yet there he was. You underestimate the shrug of god.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 11, 2022 8:24:29 GMT
King Alistair could be in Tevinter to discuss a trade agreement for watermelons for all we know. He had no business being in DA2 and yet there he was. You underestimate the shrug of god. A slightly different situation. Kirkwall was just over the water from Ferelden and many citizens of Ferelden ended up there as refugees. I seem to recall that Alistair was there because of the uncertain political situation in what had previously been a stable northern ally and to encourage people to return home. There would be no reason for the monarch of Ferelden to travel all the way to Tevinter whether for trade or diplomacy. That is what ambassadors are for. Tevinter is also now a war zone, so travel would be risky by either land or sea. There is no reason for the monarch to endanger himself unless at the head of an army as part of an Exalted March called by the Divine. I doubt that is going to happen.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Nov 11, 2022 9:29:45 GMT
According to Varric it takes 14 days from Gwaren to Kirkwall.
From West Hill or more likely Highever it takes much less time to get to Kirkwall per ship. Maybe 2-4 there and back. And for reason why King Alistair showed up in Act 3 what gervaise21 said. But Tevinter is much different than Kirkwall to be visited from a King. To be fair Alistair did this already but for real personal quest (aka finding his father) but back then there wasn´t a war.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 11, 2022 12:31:49 GMT
King Alistair could be in Tevinter to discuss a trade agreement for watermelons for all we know. He had no business being in DA2 and yet there he was. You underestimate the shrug of god. Kings sit on their thrones and rule. They dont go off to negotiate - that's what subjects are for.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 11, 2022 15:16:53 GMT
According to Varric it takes 14 days from Gwaren to Kirkwall. Hawke only travelled on that route because their way north by road was blocked. From West Hill or more likely Highever it takes much less time to get to Kirkwall per ship. Maybe 2-4 there and back. As you say, the most obvious route from Ferelden to Kirkwall would be taking a ship from either West Hill, Highever or possibly Amaranthine. The first time Anders tried to get to Karl in Kirkwall (which was several years before the events of DAA), he was recaptured trying to buy passage to Kirkwall in West Hill.
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Post by fairdragon on Nov 12, 2022 8:49:33 GMT
King Alistair could be in Tevinter to discuss a trade agreement for watermelons for all we know. He had no business being in DA2 and yet there he was. You underestimate the shrug of god. Kings sit on their thrones and rule. They dont go off to negotiate - that's what subjects are for. That is true but if it is importen enough they go themself. Because they have more authority.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 12, 2022 9:24:36 GMT
That is true but if it is importen enough they go themself. Because they have more authority. That might be true in the case of Ferelden in relation to the Freemarches but definitely not with Tevinter. The king of Ferelden would carry no authority with the Magisterium or the Archon as Ferelden just isn't important or strong enough to matter to them, even more so when it is still recovering from the 5th Blight. The monarch of Ferelden wouldn't even travel to Orlais, who regard the dog lords with nothing but contempt, but rely on other people to conduct negotiations for them. Travelling to most other nations in Thedas would not be worth the risk when the monarch has other people they can send. The Freemarches would be the exception because the individual city states are less powerful in themselves than Ferelden, so the monarch's support would carry some weight with them and being on good relations would be important to Ferelden because the Freemarches as a whole are the breadbasket of Thedas, so having their goodwill would be even more important in the aftermath of the Blight. Hence Alistair taking the trouble to visit Kirkwall, which is one of the main ports through which goods from the Freemarches would be exported to Ferelden.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Nov 12, 2022 23:28:52 GMT
While I expect to hear people talk about the leaders of Orlais and Ferelden I don't really expect to see them unless they are at the head of their armies helping to repel the qunari out of Tevinter and Antiva (Or to face Solas I suppose, but I don't get the impression that stopping him is going to involve armies or that he needs to raise one to achieve his goals. He's using a spy network to sabotage, steal, and get the info he needs to achieve his goals, and but a spy network does not an army make). I suppose by that metric Leliana could lead an Exalted March of Templars (and the inquisition forces if you chose to give them to the Chantry), I don't expect Divines usually lead their forces in person on Exalted marches, but none of the people who can become Divine Victoria are typical scholarly priests. And with the precedent of Andraste leading an army I don't expect anyone could object.
But I think if we see Alistair at all we're most likely to see him in the form of Hawke's friend: Warden Stroud/Alistair/Loghain. At Weisshaupt or out investigating the horror hot tubs and their weird darkspawn. Or maybe if we go to the fade to face or escape Solas we might meet the person left behind with nightmare and receive aid from Hawke/Alistair/Stroud/Loghain.
But of the three I thought Morrigan was most likely and it turns out no, so I don't really expect to see Leliana and Alistair either.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 13, 2022 8:24:20 GMT
I don't expect Divines usually lead their forces in person on Exalted marches Cassandra might choose to do so because she likes to be out in the field doing things and Vivienne might do so if she thought it would be best for her status but on the whole the Divine will stay safe in Val Royeaux whilst their subordinates actually risk their necks. Now the current Black Divine might be a different story. According to Dorian he doesn't rely on other people to do his dirty work (no left hand there) but is quite open about dealing with people personally that have offended him. It probably adds to the aura of fear that people have about him. I don't think he would lead an army in routine engagements but should the Arishok take to the field in a final showdown in front of the gates of Minrathous, then I could see the Black Divine at the head of the opposition. Of course, that could equally be the position taken by the Archon but given the religious element to the Qun, I can see the Black Divine claiming it. As a side note, I am going to be really disappointed if we don't encounter the Black Divine in DA:D. I've read too much about him in books and heard enough about him in game that it will be an anti-climax if we don't, or he is not as impressively scary as we have been led to believe.
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Post by bierkrug on Nov 16, 2022 17:45:00 GMT
Kings sit on their thrones and rule. They dont go off to negotiate - that's what subjects are for. Alistair went on an entire very dangerous quest in the comics. Cailan leads his battles against the darkspawn himself. In one of the novels, Maric merrily wanders into the deep roads and leaves his young son alone. As far as Ferelden kings are concerned, common sense either ain't their thing or they are expected to do more than fart on their throne. Bioware has brought previously (potentially) dead characters back, I doubt a king is that much of a stretch.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Nov 16, 2022 18:05:40 GMT
Alistair went on an entire very dangerous quest in the comics. And the reason was a very personal one which Bioware can´t repeat. Also at this time there wasn´t a big war between Tevinter and the Qunari. And what if Alistair isn´t King? Again there are players who won´t play the game with same choices as you.
Last but not least i highly doubt that they ever bring dead characters back which are as dead and Quantum character as Alistair could be.
Yes its true that Bioware bring back Leliana from the dead (or spirit ghost if you will) but quite different as Alistair. If the player wants to kill Leliana in DAO they have to defile the urn and most important have Leliana in the party. Not many player have done this so why not bring Leliana back for overwhelming majority? Alistair on the other hand can be king, stay as grey warden, be an exiled drunk, be executed, sacrificed himself in the fight against the archdemon and in DAI he can sacrificed himself again in the fade.
So No this it´s that easy i may even say it´s almost impossible to bring Alistair regardless if he is King or not back in a major role (well more than DAI of course)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 16, 2022 18:14:45 GMT
Kings sit on their thrones and rule. They dont go off to negotiate - that's what subjects are for. Alistair went on an entire very dangerous quest in the comics. Cailan leads his battles against the darkspawn himself. In one of the novels, Maric merrily wanders into the deep roads and leaves his young son alone. As far as Ferelden kings are concerned, common sense either ain't their thing or they are expected to do more than fart on their throne. Bioware has brought previously (potentially) dead characters back, I doubt a king is that much of a stretch. Anora also takes the field in the Battle of Denerim in DAO, and travels to see us in Awakening or address the mages in Inquidition. Even Empress Celine went to the front of the Arbor Wilds in DAI. Gaspard made sense since he was a general, but her also going shows it’s not just a Ferelden thing.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 16, 2022 19:19:22 GMT
Cailan leads his battles against the darkspawn himself. Yes, he was defending his own country against an aggressor and darkspawn aren't big on the diplomatic front. Also, he was advised against standing on the front line but being something of a glory hound he went ahead anyway. This is why it is open to interpretation whether Loghain deliberately used the situation to betray Cailan or whether he genuinely thought it was waste of lives to continue when the battle was clearly lost, or try to rescue the King, and Cailan just suffered from his own hubris. Maric merrily wanders into the deep roads and leaves his young son alone. As far as Ferelden kings are concerned, common sense either ain't their thing or they are expected to do more than fart on their throne. It was originally stated in the Core Rule Book that in Ferelden all nobles are expected to defend the Freeholders in exchange for an income from them. If the Freeholders feel that the lord they are paying their taxes to isn't doing their duty, they are at liberty to offer the position to someone else. This is why I always questioned why Teagan thought he had the authority to object to us occupying the Keep at Crestwood because we were doing our duty in protecting the Freeholders in that region and so long as they were happy with the situation, that is all that mattered. However, I think perhaps the writers had decided to backtrack on that bit of lore in DAI. So far as the monarch is concerned they are appointed by the Landsmeet and are responsible for diplomacy and defense of the nation against external aggressors but much of the day to day running of the country internally is done by the Arls and Banns. So, I would imagine that since the Deep Roads ran under Ferelden, Maric would argue he was still doing his duty as king, provided he left someone capable to manage things back home whilst he was down there. It is somewhat different for the King to leave and go hundreds of miles outside of his jurisdiction when sending an ambassador would do just as well. Anora also takes the field in the Battle of Denerim in DAO, and travels to see us in Awakening or address the mages in Inquidition. All these things were done within the boundaries of Ferelden, where it was appropriate for her to do so personally, particularly where it was a matter of maintaining morale or the authority of the monarch with the people. Anora in particular had a bone to pick with the mages since the codex states she had staked her reputation on granting them sanctuary and then they betrayed her trust, so it is hardly surprising she wanted to confront Fiona personally. Even Empress Celine went to the front of the Arbor Wilds in DAI. Gaspard made sense since he was a general, but her also going shows it’s not just a Ferelden thing. Again, she might regard this as essential to maintain face when she had recently had to deal with a Civil War when certain factions had lost faith in her leadership. If I recall, they did have her turn up in a dress rather than armour, which was silly, but apart from that it was understandable. People were already saying she only maintained her position because of the Inquisition. Perhaps she was worried that if she didn't take to the field, people might see that as further weakness and reliance upon the Inquisition. Also, Corypheus and his minions had previously directly threatened Orlais and the Arbor Wilds adjoined southern Orlais, so his forces were still an ongoing threat. As such, it was appropriate for her to lead her forces against him, particularly since she had lost many of her best generals in the civil war, either defending her or opposing her, so she probably felt there was no one else suitable to send in her place.
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