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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 18, 2021 19:16:13 GMT
I firmly think that if Shepard is to be served well at all, it would be to make this character an *actual* leader rather than just constantly being stuck as a strike team operative, that is, unless Shep’s not competent enough to call the shots on a level of Anderson or Hackett. I think, much like Anderson, Shepard would not be the kind of person to get stuck behind a desk, or a cushy high ranking position. Not in this state of the galaxy. Or he could, but does that fix ME's problem? And how would you handle Shepard in the game, as a multiple choice character? Unsatisfyingly? If so, for what purpose would you bring Shepard back? Because that's not going to help. It still leaves too many questions unanswered. Maybe it works to some degree? But I can't quantify it. And like Anderson, Shepard won’t really have a choice in the end. There has to be a point where Shepard’s combat viability deteriorates, and they just won’t be the combatant they used to be. As for how I would handle Shepard in the game? Well, the answer is simple: I’d let them live a good life, retire and die off-screen. Sounds like a better life than being a combatant forever.
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Party like it's 2023!
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kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 18, 2021 19:21:49 GMT
unless Shep’s not competent enough to call the shots on a level of Anderson or Hackett. Anderson competent? hahahahaha. Lets take a look at this Anderson character, or rather what another poster calls him, Anderscum. He brings up Shepard's visions in front of the council. Did he really expect the council to fall for that? Near the end, he asks Shepard what should he do to release the SR1. I'm surprised he didn't ask Shepard to hold his hand while walking him to the little boys room. In ME2, he tells Shepard it's up to him/her to deal with the reapers. He never cared. All he did for two years is sit around taking the shape of his chair. In ME3, at the start, he says they need Shepard to help find a way to stop the reapers. Where's the renegade interrupt to smash him upside the head. He did say months ago it was up to Shepard to deal with the reapers. His plan for getting to the beam was crap. Once on the Citadel, he talks with Shepard. So his comms work. Why didn't he get on the comms to tell everyone to head for the beam instead of retreating while suffering from temporary blindness not to notice the reaper flying away. When first meeting Anderson on the shuttle, he says too bad it took the reapers to unite us. No dumb dumb, it was Shepard that united the galaxy. I agree with him about two things. Getting the other species to help deal with the reapers and having as many as possible get up the beam. You know that none of that matters, because the narrative is framed in such a way that’s totally incompatible with your interpretation. As far as anyone’s concerned, they earned their roles regardless. If Shepard can’t achieve a role higher than Commander, even after the reaper war, something is terribly wrong with this setting.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 18, 2021 20:23:25 GMT
And like Anderson, Shepard won’t really have a choice in the end. There has to be a point where Shepard’s combat viability deteriorates, and they just won’t be the combatant they used to be. Absolutely, And that is the perfect excuse to retire him. Even so, that still doesn't mean no new adventures for Shepard, just highly unlikely and what adventure's he'd get would be far in between. So you can "retire" him, without actually retiring him. He's somewhere out in the back, doing his own thing. Maybe he'll show up, maybe he won't. But it's good for the franchise that he's there, regardless. As for how I would handle Shepard in the game? Well, the answer is simple: I’d let them live a good life, retire and die off-screen. Sounds like a better life than being a combatant forever. Exactly. If the franchise ever needs him again, he can show up at some capacity, or perhaps never again. And you know what's the best thing about that? You can make a prequel and sell it to people. Because the franchise is healthy again and things matter once more. And a Ryder sequel, of course.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 18, 2021 20:39:54 GMT
This mostly operates under the assumption that the kett could launch a counteroffensive anytime soon, which they can’t. Is there proof to that? Look at the game. How big a force did they have when little Ryder arrived at Meridian? Take away the scrouge, Ryder and others would have been eliminated. How large a force did the Archon have when he took the Hyperion? What defenses does the Nexus have that would counter an attack from the kett? If they do, where was it when the kett took the Hyperion? So you have no idea how long it would take for the kett to have any backup show up?
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jrpN7
N3
Pro vobis omne periculum.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 731 Likes: 1,859
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jrpN7
Pro vobis omne periculum.
731
January 2017
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by jrpN7 on Jan 18, 2021 20:50:32 GMT
Saying Ryder has a story to tell does not mean he does. Nothing is there for Ryder, there are story points they can pick up but nothing is tied to Ryder. His story is complete just as much as Shepards. Wanting Ryder does not mean he has a story to tell anymore than not wanting Shepard means he doesn't. and that is all you have a personal preference, which is fine. Just understand that.
Shepard's story was the Reapers. That is why this is the only aspect of Shepard we see and why every story is build around that. The Reaper story is complete and Shepard's story has been told. Andromeda's story has only started and Heleus has only just started to recover. Ryder still has a story to tell. Shepard doesn't. Unless that story is the insane amount of PTSD they would have after the events of the Reaper War.
Shepard's story was just the Reapers? That's it? The only aspect with all stories built around that? OK, so how is Ryder any different? Ryder's story is just wrestling the Kett for control over the Heleus cluster with all stories built around that. If you want to expand on Ryder, then by justness you get to do the same with Shepard. Because, damn, there was a lot tackled outside of the Reapers; and how these outcomes transpire from the events of Shepard's end decision in ME3 can easily be made into a story. Who better to witness the results of these decisions for us players than the man/woman who made them? -The Batarians infringing on Alliance Space. Are they still capable of doing this after the war or were they nearly wiped out? Will they be more pacifist? -Krogan/Salarian/Turian debacle. Shepard had them join forces (more or less). Is the peace still there or will they succumb to old grudges? -Will the Geth/Quarian truce last or lead to another war? -Rachni. Will they embrace opportunism and strike while everyone else is weak? Or will they even begin contributing to galactic society? -Raloi. Will they be uplifted and be the newest species to enter the galactic society? -Keeping xenophobic Cerburus from a resurgence. -Citadel's position over Earth/linkage to London and what that means for humanity exerting influence on the other council species. -My favorite: Spectre duties during a power vacuum/imbalance after the Reaper War. Will influential and heroic Shepard be more faithful to his Spectre role or his Alliance role in exerting influence on the galaxy? -Reapers. Were they truly wiped out? What about any lingering in dark space? Could Shepard've been kidnapped after the surge and Liara and crew are trying to find him? -New dangers. Only a portion of the MW is considered explored by the end of ME3. There's still lots needing to mapped. Who knows what's lurking.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 18, 2021 20:56:51 GMT
And like Anderson, Shepard won’t really have a choice in the end. There has to be a point where Shepard’s combat viability deteriorates, and they just won’t be the combatant they used to be. I agree that over time, a person will be slower as they get older, but for Shepard, I would say she/he still has some years left. What I would do? Have Shepard in another game. The game wouldn't have as much fighting as seen in the previous games. It would focus more on exploring and investigating. As far as what Shepard would do after leaving the military. Here's a thread that folks can post about what their Shepard would do after the events of ME3
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jrpN7
N3
Pro vobis omne periculum.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 731 Likes: 1,859
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1,859
jrpN7
Pro vobis omne periculum.
731
January 2017
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by jrpN7 on Jan 18, 2021 21:04:32 GMT
I think this perfectly encapsulates the issue I have with dragging the same character around forever after having their saga and reaching its climax: fatigue. At some point, a character simply runs out of gas, and try as the writers might, they’ll just be working with fumes. I suspect people might regret getting what they want, assuming BioWare provides it. Hmm, to be honest, I actually really dislike the Dragon Age series particularly because we get a new protagonist every. damn. game. It's jarring and breaks up the immersion for me. Having to waste 1/3 of the game meeting an entire new crew with their own messed up backgrounds and finding out how that pertains to anything. That's simultaneously monotonous and fatiguing for me. With ME, they slowly added new characters to keep it interesting, without bogging it down with all the "meet and greet" and should Shepard return, this can easily be done again.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 18, 2021 21:36:12 GMT
Having to waste 1/3 of the game meeting an entire new crew with their own messed up backgrounds and finding out how that pertains to anything. That's simultaneously monotonous and fatiguing for me. Yeah. I'm not on board with that, either. And imagine, you're going to meet a new cast and crew again, with characters that you will need to like and connect, for this game to be worth it for you, considering that, if this game falls flat, it's live service could run for years, of something you just don't like, while the next title won't be here, before 2033 at the earliest. DA is dead in that case. You can't keep a franchise alive with a single release every 10 years.
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Party like it's 2023!
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kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 18, 2021 21:48:58 GMT
And like Anderson, Shepard won’t really have a choice in the end. There has to be a point where Shepard’s combat viability deteriorates, and they just won’t be the combatant they used to be. I agree that over time, a person will be slower as they get older, but for Shepard, I would say she/he still has some years left. What I would do? Have Shepard in another game. The game wouldn't have as much fighting as seen in the previous games. It would focus more on exploring and investigating. As far as what Shepard would do after leaving the military. Here's a thread that folks can post about what their Shepard would do after the events of ME3 I’ll admit that I’d be interested to see a game that prioritizes exploration and investigation, because that puts more emphasis on dialogue and character building than combat, since the former is far more important to me than the latter. Question is, is BioWare actually up to the task of making that interesting? I guess we’ll just have to see.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 18, 2021 21:49:06 GMT
I think this perfectly encapsulates the issue I have with dragging the same character around forever after having their saga and reaching its climax: fatigue. At some point, a character simply runs out of gas, and try as the writers might, they’ll just be working with fumes. I suspect people might regret getting what they want, assuming BioWare provides it. Hmm, to be honest, I actually really dislike the Dragon Age series particularly because we get a new protagonist every. damn. game. It's jarring and breaks up the immersion for me. Having to waste 1/3 of the game meeting an entire new crew with their own messed up backgrounds and finding out how that pertains to anything. That's simultaneously monotonous and fatiguing for me. With ME, they slowly added new characters to keep it interesting, without bogging it down with all the "meet and greet" and should Shepard return, this can easily be done again. It also forces them to have smaller stories, since they only have one game to tell them. This limits larger story possibilities since new protagonist don't have the connections old ones do. Take Solas for example. With the Inquisitor, Solas is a former ally/friend/lover whom they know a lot of nuance with yet need to battle those feelings with stopping him from destroying the world. With a new PC, he's just yet another ancient mage planning to destroy the world to bring back his own. Imagine if the Reaper plot was told in only a single game instead of a trilogy.
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Party like it's 2023!
9,233
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kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 18, 2021 21:57:48 GMT
I think this perfectly encapsulates the issue I have with dragging the same character around forever after having their saga and reaching its climax: fatigue. At some point, a character simply runs out of gas, and try as the writers might, they’ll just be working with fumes. I suspect people might regret getting what they want, assuming BioWare provides it. Hmm, to be honest, I actually really dislike the Dragon Age series particularly because we get a new protagonist every. damn. game. It's jarring and breaks up the immersion for me. Having to waste 1/3 of the game meeting an entire new crew with their own messed up backgrounds and finding out how that pertains to anything. That's simultaneously monotonous and fatiguing for me. With ME, they slowly added new characters to keep it interesting, without bogging it down with all the "meet and greet" and should Shepard return, this can easily be done again. Sure, but I’m not arguing for the Dragon Age method of dealing with protagonists here. Shepard’s already gotten a full trilogy’s worth of content, with dozens of characters to interact with. Moving on from a character that’s already had this much content wouldn’t be the same as moving on from, say, the Warden, Hawke or the Inquisitor. If a new trilogy or whatever does spawn out of this new game, I think it’s best that it not be with Shepard. I find it curious that the meet and greet part of character content is something anyone would consider to bog down the experience. It’s probably the thing BioWare’s typically done best in its games above all else. Shit, it’s like, the defining attribute of Mass Effect 2, upheaving most of our old companions to make us go shopping for more weirdos. Besides, anyone hoping that the game will primarily carry on old relationships while making a fresh experience simultaneously is probably going to set themselves up for disappointment. Undoubtedly, the bulk of this game is going to involve new characters and new backstories anyway. I’m willing to bet the majority of the roster will be new.
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Party like it's 2023!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 18, 2021 22:05:48 GMT
Hmm, to be honest, I actually really dislike the Dragon Age series particularly because we get a new protagonist every. damn. game. It's jarring and breaks up the immersion for me. Having to waste 1/3 of the game meeting an entire new crew with their own messed up backgrounds and finding out how that pertains to anything. That's simultaneously monotonous and fatiguing for me. With ME, they slowly added new characters to keep it interesting, without bogging it down with all the "meet and greet" and should Shepard return, this can easily be done again. It also forces them to have smaller stories, since they only have one game to tell them. This limits larger story possibilities since new protagonist don't have the connections old ones do. Take Solas for example. With the Inquisitor, Solas is a former ally/friend/lover whom they know a lot of nuance with yet need to battle those feelings with stopping him from destroying the world. With a new PC, he's just yet another ancient mage planning to destroy the world to bring back his own. Imagine if the Reaper plot was told in only a single game instead of a trilogy. Funny thing about the reaper plot is that it didn’t really require 3 whole games to tell it. Mass Effect 2’s “plot” barely does much with it, other than establishing that the Alliance is kind of useless, and that I was probably better off letting the Council die.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 18, 2021 22:09:55 GMT
It also forces them to have smaller stories, since they only have one game to tell them. This limits larger story possibilities since new protagonist don't have the connections old ones do. Take Solas for example. With the Inquisitor, Solas is a former ally/friend/lover whom they know a lot of nuance with yet need to battle those feelings with stopping him from destroying the world. With a new PC, he's just yet another ancient mage planning to destroy the world to bring back his own. Imagine if the Reaper plot was told in only a single game instead of a trilogy. Funny thing about the reaper plot is that it didn’t really require 3 whole games to tell it. Mass Effect 2’s “plot” barely does much with it, other than establishing that the Alliance is kind of useless, and that I was probably better off letting the Council die. I'd argue it did. Yes ME2 was a wasted slot, especially since ME3 really should have been two games.
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Party like it's 2023!
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kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 18, 2021 22:11:21 GMT
Funny thing about the reaper plot is that it didn’t really require 3 whole games to tell it. Mass Effect 2’s “plot” barely does much with it, other than establishing that the Alliance is kind of useless, and that I was probably better off letting the Council die. I'd argue it did. Yes ME2 was a wasted slot, especially since ME3 really should have been two games. That would at least get rid of the wretched Project Lazarus bit. People dislike the endings, but I dislike this bit the most in the entire trilogy.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 18, 2021 22:12:45 GMT
I'd argue it did. Yes ME2 was a wasted slot, especially since ME3 really should have been two games. That would at least get rid of the wretched Project Lazarus bit. People dislike the endings, but I dislike this bit the most in the entire trilogy. Another bonus. But yeah ME2 would have been better if it focused on things like getting alliances (also letting us see the home world before the war) while ME3 could then focus more on the war itself.
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 18, 2021 22:25:35 GMT
Sure, but I’m not arguing for the Dragon Age method of dealing with protagonists here. Shepard’s already gotten a full trilogy’s worth of content, with dozens of characters to interact with. Moving on from a character that’s already had this much content wouldn’t be the same as moving on from, say, the Warden, Hawke or the Inquisitor. If a new trilogy or whatever does spawn out of this new game, I think it’s best that it not be with Shepard. I find it curious that the meet and greet part of character content is something anyone would consider to bog down the experience. It’s probably the thing BioWare’s typically done best in its games above all else. Shit, it’s like, the defining attribute of Mass Effect 2, upheaving most of our old companions to make us go shopping for more weirdos. Besides, anyone hoping that the game will primarily carry on old relationships while making a fresh experience simultaneously is probably going to set themselves up for disappointment. Undoubtedly, the bulk of this game is going to involve new characters and new backstories anyway. I’m willing to bet the majority of the roster will be new. I'd say it's contextual, in some cases. ME3 ended in a way that caused a shit storm. And it was a shit storm that was improperly addressed. One of those reasons was that the game was supposed to be newcomer friendly. I'd argue that, at some point, you can't make all the entries in your trilogy newcomer friendly. LotR is one of the greatest trilogies of all time, exactly because it wasn't newcomer friendly. At worst, you can bundle your new game with the previous entries of the trilogy. Kind of like ... White Knight Chronicles, which also supported a save import system from 1 to 2. WKC2 came with WKC1 in the box, exactly for that reason. But this is EA we're talking about and they're not of that thinking mind. I'm sorry, but Bioware can't have their cake and eat it too. And it evidently didn't work. As for the change of characters from ME1 to ME2, you know, I wasn't on board with it. But it won me over fast and, honestly, the ME1 crew wasn't that good and the ones that returned in ME2 were much better. If anything, their more iconic renditions are from ME2. But it also serves as an example that you don't always strike all the cords, that well, every time. ME3 felt like a downgrade, in terms of squad and I don't need to talk about public reception of ME:A characters. And I don't see how a new cast, with added fatigue from going through the motions again, just to get to know the new people again, is going to resonate any better. Either stick to the old cast, or make it Ryder and Co exclusively. Anything else will further fatigue the audience, than entice them.
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Party like it's 2023!
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kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 18, 2021 22:34:44 GMT
All I can say is that people should be wary of what they wish for. Personally, I’m not really looking forward to more Garrus is my best friend and there’s nothing I can do about it dynamic. Maybe they’ll canonize his death, or perhaps he becomes Primarch and is too busy calibrating his planet to deal with us.
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 18, 2021 22:38:33 GMT
All I can say is that people should be wary of what they wish for. I fully understand. Personally, I’m not really looking forward to more Garrus is my best friend and there’s nothing I can do about it dynamic. Nor am I looking forward to Liara obsessing over me. Hopefully, we'll get some people other than the "Holy Trinity" return. Hint: look at my profile pic.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 18, 2021 22:42:20 GMT
All I can say is that people should be wary of what they wish for. I fully understand. Personally, I’m not really looking forward to more Garrus is my best friend and there’s nothing I can do about it dynamic. Nor am I looking forward to Liara obsessing over me. Hopefully, we'll get some people other than the "Holy Trinity" return. Hint: look at my profile pic. In all of this, I kind of forgot about where they’d even go with the ME2 cast. The probability of ME2 characters returning really depends on what options we have to start off that game, like whether or not we can preselect a certain history to start off our playthrough, sort of like if you do ME3 without an ME2 save file, so you select which character survived Virmire. My guess is that most of that cast will disappear into the ether, especially the tertiary characters like Kasumi and Samara. They’ll probably just drop Jacob altogether, because Jacob. The only thing really keeping the chances better for Miranda and Jack is the fact that they’re primary romance options.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 18, 2021 22:46:38 GMT
I know most if not all my favorite characters have practically zero chance of returning.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 18, 2021 22:47:50 GMT
I know most if not all my favorite characters have practically zero chance of returning. My favorite died on Tuchanka, so I have nothing left lol
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 18, 2021 22:49:45 GMT
I know most if not all my favorite characters have practically zero chance of returning. My favorite died on Tuchanka, so I have nothing left lol My favorites either died on Rannoch, could have died twice (a couple thrice), and/or are so minor they wouldn't be seen as worth it.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 18, 2021 23:31:06 GMT
My favorites either died on Rannoch, could have died twice (a couple thrice), and/or are so minor they wouldn't be seen as worth it. As with picking a surviving Liara canon, so could they have survived canonically.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,864 Likes: 3,472
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Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
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ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Jan 18, 2021 23:33:45 GMT
I know most if not all my favorite characters have practically zero chance of returning. My favorite died on Tuchanka, so I have nothing left lol Someone died on Tuchanka, weird.
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✜ The Bunny Chaser
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So far 2024 is the same as the previous three years...
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Jan 15, 2017 18:43:23 GMT
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energizerbunny211
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Jan 19, 2021 0:43:14 GMT
My favourite character is still waiting to get laid.....still looking for Shepard under piles of rubble at the ass-end of the war.
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