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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jan 19, 2021 0:56:40 GMT
Shepard's story was the Reapers. That is why this is the only aspect of Shepard we see and why every story is build around that. The Reaper story is complete and Shepard's story has been told. Andromeda's story has only started and Heleus has only just started to recover. Ryder still has a story to tell. Shepard doesn't. Unless that story is the insane amount of PTSD they would have after the events of the Reaper War.
Shepard's story was just the Reapers? That's it? The only aspect with all stories built around that? OK, so how is Ryder any different? Ryder's story is just wrestling the Kett for control over the Heleus cluster with all stories built around that. If you want to expand on Ryder, then by justness you get to do the same with Shepard. Because, damn, there was a lot tackled outside of the Reapers; and how these outcomes transpire from the events of Shepard's end decision in ME3 can easily be made into a story. Who better to witness the results of these decisions for us players than the man/woman who made them? -The Batarians infringing on Alliance Space. Are they still capable of doing this after the war or were they nearly wiped out? Will they be more pacifist? -Krogan/Salarian/Turian debacle. Shepard had them join forces (more or less). Is the peace still there or will they succumb to old grudges? -Will the Geth/Quarian truce last or lead to another war? -Rachni. Will they embrace opportunism and strike while everyone else is weak? Or will they even begin contributing to galactic society? -Raloi. Will they be uplifted and be the newest species to enter the galactic society? -Keeping xenophobic Cerburus from a resurgence. -Citadel's position over Earth/linkage to London and what that means for humanity exerting influence on the other council species. -My favorite: Spectre duties during a power vacuum/imbalance after the Reaper War. Will influential and heroic Shepard be more faithful to his Spectre role or his Alliance role in exerting influence on the galaxy? -Reapers. Were they truly wiped out? What about any lingering in dark space? Could Shepard've been kidnapped after the surge and Liara and crew are trying to find him? -New dangers. Only a portion of the MW is considered explored by the end of ME3. There's still lots needing to mapped. Who knows what's lurking. Ryder isn't any different. The end of ME:A doesn't remove the Kett from the Cluster. The Kett 2nd in command is now in charge and doesn't have the same obsession with Rem tech that the Archon had. Which means he will be diverting Kett forces to more war and kidnaps and conversions were the Archon diverted it to find and research Rem Tech. The end of MEA puts Ryder in the same position that Shepard was in at the end of ME1. None of those are actually related to Shepard. The examples you give are all 3rd party actions which would either line up with your previous actions thus removing any reason to continue with the story line. Or go against your previous actions which invalidate any point in making them. When your entire game is directly telling you that you were wrong in every single action you made in the last game. People are not going to be to happy about that. It is one thing to have one or two choices have a potential negative out come but to have every choice have a negative outcome is pushing it. How would Shepard prevent xenophobic ideas from showing up again? Is Shepard a god who can control people's mind? Is Shep all knowing and all seeing able to tell what every single person is doing at any given time? Cerberus formed under the Alliance's nose and was able to stay one step ahead of every other race's intelligence agencies who no doubt at at least a task force dedicated to hunting them down. WTF could Shep do that entire governments were incapable of?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jan 19, 2021 0:59:13 GMT
Mysterious benefactor. Finding out their mother is alive. Dealing with the consequences of the choices made in the first game. Continuing their father's work as pathfinder for the human race. Helping understand Rem tech as they are the only person who can effectively activate it. Dealing with the Kett who tried to use Ryder's sibling and SAM to take over super advanced tech.
Shepard's story was the Reapers. That is why this is the only aspect of Shepard we see and why every story is build around that. The Reaper story is complete and Shepard's story has been told. Andromeda's story has only started and Heleus has only just started to recover. Ryder still has a story to tell. Shepard doesn't. Unless that story is the insane amount of PTSD they would have after the events of the Reaper War.
Mysterious benefactor, anyone can do that. Finding out if his mother is still alive, is the same level as seeing shepard recover. Dealing with consequences of first game, there are far more consequences to deal with in the MW. Continuing his fathers work 1 he teraformed the entire sector he pretty much just did his dads job x20, as now every world in the network is a golden world not just the 7 they picked out, and in the MW the Reaper threat may be solved but that does not make the Galaxy problem free Shepard has plenty of work ahead of him. Helping to understand rem tech, anyone with a SAM implant can do the same his SAM was better but there is no indication that was its ability to translate remtech was unique to that SAM his Sam added features like profiles etc for enhancing him more but every SAM could do the remtech crap, and honestly once the language is known which it seems to be by the end of the game a low rent Vi could do it. Dealing with the Kett, there are plenty of threats left in the galaxy for Shepard to deal with the leviathans being a obvious one.
Ryders story is just as complete. He teraformed the entire region, defeated the Kett threat, united all the people, his goal and story was to make the place more livable, he did that in excess. Ryder solved every problem in the area with some potential threats left for future games, but guess what there are potential threats in the MW as well. If anything there are more dangling threats and plot hooks left in the MW, given the 3 games and multiple unresolved threads throughout them.
It is fine to not want a character, and to like the ending where they are currently at. But saying their story is done is just silly, until a character is dead they can always tell another story with them.
Only Ryder and SAM know about the benefactor and the fact that everyone associated with him minus dad has been murdered. Mother being alive and searching for a cure and the reunion after the loss of the father is a big pay off emotionally.
They still need to establish colonies and Ryder is human path finder
Ryder is the only one that can manipulate Rem tech
Ryder still has to deal with the Kett that were not defeated only put under new management.
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Post by ahglock on Jan 19, 2021 5:44:18 GMT
Mysterious benefactor, anyone can do that. Finding out if his mother is still alive, is the same level as seeing shepard recover. Dealing with consequences of first game, there are far more consequences to deal with in the MW. Continuing his fathers work 1 he teraformed the entire sector he pretty much just did his dads job x20, as now every world in the network is a golden world not just the 7 they picked out, and in the MW the Reaper threat may be solved but that does not make the Galaxy problem free Shepard has plenty of work ahead of him. Helping to understand rem tech, anyone with a SAM implant can do the same his SAM was better but there is no indication that was its ability to translate remtech was unique to that SAM his Sam added features like profiles etc for enhancing him more but every SAM could do the remtech crap, and honestly once the language is known which it seems to be by the end of the game a low rent Vi could do it. Dealing with the Kett, there are plenty of threats left in the galaxy for Shepard to deal with the leviathans being a obvious one.
Ryders story is just as complete. He teraformed the entire region, defeated the Kett threat, united all the people, his goal and story was to make the place more livable, he did that in excess. Ryder solved every problem in the area with some potential threats left for future games, but guess what there are potential threats in the MW as well. If anything there are more dangling threats and plot hooks left in the MW, given the 3 games and multiple unresolved threads throughout them.
It is fine to not want a character, and to like the ending where they are currently at. But saying their story is done is just silly, until a character is dead they can always tell another story with them.
Only Ryder and SAM know about the benefactor and the fact that everyone associated with him minus dad has been murdered. Mother being alive and searching for a cure and the reunion after the loss of the father is a big pay off emotionally.
They still need to establish colonies and Ryder is human path finder
Ryder is the only one that can manipulate Rem tech
Ryder still has to deal with the Kett that were not defeated only put under new management.
1. Literally all that has to happen is Ryder say to anyone, I found out that Garson had a benefactor paying the way, and came across evidence they had garson murdered. She did not die in the scourge incident, i know nothing else. How the bleep is that only something he can do, and if he can come across the data anyone can even if it is a different route, like one of the benefactors agents sequels.
2. Who gives a shit about mom. I'm curios what drink Zaed was drinking in retirement pictures as well and that is about as important.
3. anyone can establish colonies, he teraformed them into golden worlds. We have been establishing colonies for thousands of years all without drop ships that instant prefab a towns worth of buildings and infrastructure, in shitty environments. Even the people in the Andromeda initiative aren't that incompetent.
4. Ryder is the only person so far who can manipulate remtech, everyone in the area should be able to once Sam stops being a bitch and shares. Literally all he is doing is communicating with it, he's deciphered the language, upload that onto a omni tool and let others do it. And on top of that there is like 0 need for that since Ryder can do that from meridian, he can retire into the admin team and control shit from the control center. Let someone who isnt awful take his place in the field.
5. Shepard has plenty of dropped plot threads to deal with as well so who cares, and again anyone can deal with kett.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 19, 2021 7:06:11 GMT
Only Ryder and SAM know about the benefactor and the fact that everyone associated with him minus dad has been murdered. Mother being alive and searching for a cure and the reunion after the loss of the father is a big pay off emotionally.
They still need to establish colonies and Ryder is human path finder
Ryder is the only one that can manipulate Rem tech
Ryder still has to deal with the Kett that were not defeated only put under new management.
1. Literally all that has to happen is Ryder say to anyone, I found out that Garson had a benefactor paying the way, and came across evidence they had garson murdered. She did not die in the scourge incident, i know nothing else. How the bleep is that only something he can do, and if he can come across the data anyone can even if it is a different route, like one of the benefactors agents sequels.
2. Who gives a shit about mom. I'm curios what drink Zaed was drinking in retirement pictures as well and that is about as important.
3. anyone can establish colonies, he teraformed them into golden worlds. We have been establishing colonies for thousands of years all without drop ships that instant prefab a towns worth of buildings and infrastructure, in shitty environments. Even the people in the Andromeda initiative aren't that incompetent.
4. Ryder is the only person so far who can manipulate remtech, everyone in the area should be able to once Sam stops being a bitch and shares. Literally all he is doing is communicating with it, he's deciphered the language, upload that onto a omni tool and let others do it. And on top of that there is like 0 need for that since Ryder can do that from meridian, he can retire into the admin team and control shit from the control center. Let someone who isnt awful take his place in the field.
5. Shepard has plenty of dropped plot threads to deal with as well so who cares, and again anyone can deal with kett.
I think the simplest counterpoint to this would be these two key facts: -Ryder is guaranteed to survive the Meridian conflict -Ryder has the closest narrative ties to all of the events leading to its conclusion No matter how anyone here slices it, there’s no particularly sound reasoning not to have Ryder be the one that’s involved in the resolution of any loose ends the story presents us with. It would really just come down to things like “I don’t like the character” or “BioWare will have a hard time selling the game”. While the latter is something to consider in terms of trying to actually sell a product, it’s utterly meaningless when talking about the story itself. Ryder has no reason to just pawn off any important information on to someone else to carry on their work. As for the fate of Ryder’s mother, whether or not someone cares doesn’t invalidate it being a loose end that adds to the point on Ryder’s narrative ties. The only workable solution to move on from Ryder would actually be a substantial time jump, either when Ryder is far too old, or every character in the game has passed on, and it’s basically a Next Generation type scenario where Heleus is basically a far different place. Question is, what history do we establish between the conclusion of Andromeda and the start of this sequel? Did anything major happen? If so, why didn’t we play that? That kind of thing. If you really think about it, Ryder’s not really worse off in terms of being tied to a follow-up game than Shepard is between ME1 and ME2. After the battle for the Citadel, Shepard is basically sent on a useless wild goose chase to hunt geth, and then straight up dies in the process. There’s nothing particularly valuable about Shepard that adds to the impending conflict with either the Collectors or the Reapers themselves. Cerberus just took it upon themselves to make Shepard into Jesus, when any number of competent soldiers in the galaxy could have just as easily taken up the mantle. The “symbolic” nature of Shepard’s existence is a fairly dubious point for Timmy investing fuck-tons of cash to revive a single person, because that symbolism doesn’t even play a role in defeating the Collectors anyway, or at least not to the capacity that it requires Shepard to actually be alive.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 19, 2021 10:29:10 GMT
No matter how anyone here slices it, there’s no particularly sound reasoning not to have Ryder be the one that’s involved in the resolution of any loose ends the story presents us with But none of these plots are in the Milky Way. His closest tie to Liara is "my dad talked to her once, 700 years ago". Granted, that's the biggest connection anyone in the Initiative could have to Liara, but it's not like that is a requirement to speak to her. Even so, there's no real reason why they'd need to send an emissary to the Milky Way and why would that emissary need to be Ryder. Because he has experience with "First Contact"? When he went to meet the Angara? It's not a first contact scenario. It's just a meeting with Liara and why on Earth would they go to this ice planet to meet? I am sure Bioware will make a contrived way to explain it, that will convince nobody and nobody will care for it, so I am really looking forward to see the public's reaction when they reveal it. Nobody wants Bioware touching games anymore. And this will just help people not touch this game, either. You can't sell it and you can't justify it. Do it.
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Jan 19, 2021 12:57:33 GMT
It's just a meeting with Liara and why on Earth would they go to this ice planet to meet? You know this scene isn't gonna play out like this right? It's just to show us the connection of both galaxies stories and characters. The teaser is only giving us the feeling of how the story will be like, like any other teaser.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 19, 2021 13:37:40 GMT
You know this scene isn't gonna play out like this right? It's just to show us the connection of both galaxies stories and characters. The teaser is only giving us the feeling of how the story will be like, like any other teaser. It doesn't make it smart. It's not an excuse. The only feeling I get from this, is that it's going to be dumb. You can try to sell me dumb, I don't like it. I don't like being served dumb things and then talked down on for pointing out your thing is dumb, only to be told that I am dumb for not understanding it. I do understand it and I think it's dumb and I will keep thinking it's dumb. It's dumb. Stop doing dumb things. We're in a streak of dumb shit from Bioware since 2011. At some point, it gotta end. But now, seems like we're going full speed into 2027 with dumb shit.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 19, 2021 13:37:57 GMT
No matter how anyone here slices it, there’s no particularly sound reasoning not to have Ryder be the one that’s involved in the resolution of any loose ends the story presents us with But none of these plots are in the Milky Way. His closest tie to Liara is "my dad talked to her once, 700 years ago". Granted, that's the biggest connection anyone in the Initiative could have to Liara, but it's not like that is a requirement to speak to her. Even so, there's no real reason why they'd need to send an emissary to the Milky Way and why would that emissary need to be Ryder. Because he has experience with "First Contact"? When he went to meet the Angara? It's not a first contact scenario. It's just a meeting with Liara and why on Earth would they go to this ice planet to meet? I am sure Bioware will make a contrived way to explain it, that will convince nobody and nobody will care for it, so I am really looking forward to see the public's reaction when they reveal it. Nobody wants Bioware touching games anymore. And this will just help people not touch this game, either. You can't sell it and you can't justify it. Do it. I understand that. I just threw my hat in because I like to argue. This hypothetical Andromeda 2 has less than a snowball’s chance in hell, but I think my point stands lol
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Post by Radec on Jan 19, 2021 14:57:11 GMT
Where did we get this impression? From a generic marketing teaser?
Mind you, canonizing high EMS destroy is likely the best option for returning to the MW in terms of variety of narrative options (control offers little scope for continued conflict, synthesis none at all)....
but Liara showing up for 2 seconds doesn't say anything in terms of any world state they've gone with moving forward, apart from decanonizng low EMS beam runs with her (literally the only way she can die).
Probably has been brought up, but the "Shepard dies" ME2 ending didn't prevent ME3, either.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 19, 2021 15:07:57 GMT
Where did we get this impression? From a generic marketing teaser? Mind you, canonizing high EMS destroy is likely the best option for returning to the MW in terms of variety of narrative options (control offers little scope for continued conflict, synthesis none at all).... but Liara showing up for 2 seconds doesn't say anything in terms of any world state they've gone with moving forward, apart from decanonizng low EMS beam runs with her (literally the only way she can die). Probably has been brought up, but the "Shepard dies" ME2 ending didn't prevent ME3, either. I always understood ME2’s everyone dies ending as that what-if choice that we knew not to take seriously, which Refuse would also be.
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Post by Radec on Jan 19, 2021 15:12:56 GMT
Where did we get this impression? From a generic marketing teaser? Mind you, canonizing high EMS destroy is likely the best option for returning to the MW in terms of variety of narrative options (control offers little scope for continued conflict, synthesis none at all).... but Liara showing up for 2 seconds doesn't say anything in terms of any world state they've gone with moving forward, apart from decanonizng low EMS beam runs with her (literally the only way she can die). Probably has been brought up, but the "Shepard dies" ME2 ending didn't prevent ME3, either. I always understood ME2’s everyone dies ending as that what-if choice that we knew not to take seriously, which Refuse would also be. Sure. You pretty much have to have metagame knowledge to even know how to fail bad enough at the SM to trigger it Albiet, personally, I find it a less ridiculous outcome than synthesis. It didn't give trees circuit boards.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 19, 2021 15:49:30 GMT
I always understood ME2’s everyone dies ending as that what-if choice that we knew not to take seriously, which Refuse would also be. Sure. You pretty much have to have metagame knowledge to even know how to fail bad enough at the SM to trigger it Albiet, personally, I find it a less ridiculous outcome than synthesis. It didn't give trees circuit boards. Yeah that whole bit with even plants getting synthesized. Like, I guess that solves the potential conflict between machines and flowers.
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Post by Radec on Jan 19, 2021 16:23:40 GMT
Sure. You pretty much have to have metagame knowledge to even know how to fail bad enough at the SM to trigger it Albiet, personally, I find it a less ridiculous outcome than synthesis. It didn't give trees circuit boards. Yeah that whole bit with even plants getting synthesized. Like, I guess that solves the potential conflict between machines and flowers. Yes, the plants have no consciousness or thought processes at all, but by putting CPUs in them, we can ensure they never become racist against robots and attempt to go to war over it. I could dunk on how stupid it is for 9 more years, but more importantly it's a narrative dead end, so I don't think it shows back up anyway. Control or Destroy scenario works for me. Only thing is Control and its Reaper police force precludes most galactic extinction level threats (but you can tell smaller stories where they don't get involved) unless you explicitly state the Shepard AI flew them off to police other galaxies or something.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 19, 2021 17:12:28 GMT
Yeah that whole bit with even plants getting synthesized. Like, I guess that solves the potential conflict between machines and flowers. Yes, the plants have no consciousness or thought processes at all, but by putting CPUs in them, we can ensure they never become racist against robots and attempt to go to war over it. I could dunk on how stupid it is for 9 more years, but more importantly it's a narrative dead end, so I don't think it shows back up anyway. Control or Destroy scenario works for me. Only thing is Control and its Reaper police force precludes most galactic extinction level threats (but you can tell smaller stories where they don't get involved) unless you explicitly state the Shepard AI flew them off to police other galaxies or something. As a purely aesthetic choice, functioning reapers probably won’t exist here anyway, so that kind of makes destroy the de facto state regardless.
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Post by Radec on Jan 19, 2021 17:35:51 GMT
Yes, the plants have no consciousness or thought processes at all, but by putting CPUs in them, we can ensure they never become racist against robots and attempt to go to war over it. I could dunk on how stupid it is for 9 more years, but more importantly it's a narrative dead end, so I don't think it shows back up anyway. Control or Destroy scenario works for me. Only thing is Control and its Reaper police force precludes most galactic extinction level threats (but you can tell smaller stories where they don't get involved) unless you explicitly state the Shepard AI flew them off to police other galaxies or something. As a purely aesthetic choice, functioning reapers probably won’t exist here anyway, so that kind of makes destroy the de facto state regardless. Indeed, aside from the fate of the Reapers, there's little functional difference in the world state between the two, apart from Destroy sacrificing the geth in an attempt to make it not obviously the best outcome. Though, given that a Legion that dies in the SM is simply resurrected from backup (but without its ME2 memories) and reappears on the Dreadnought, even that is not necessarily an issue that can't be written around.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 19, 2021 17:48:22 GMT
It’d be kind of funny if the quarians are walking around with a few geth programs still installed on their suits.
“That reaper code was a total bosh’tet on our envirosuits’ operating systems. The geth had to use basic unaltered programs to make them function. I guess they dodged a bullet there.”
“WHEW!”
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Post by Radec on Jan 19, 2021 18:04:09 GMT
It’d be kind of funny if the quarians are walking around with a few geth programs still installed on their suits. “That reaper code was a total bosh’tet on our envirosuits’ operating systems. The geth had to use basic unaltered programs to make them function. I guess they dodged a bullet there.” “WHEW!” Reverting the geth to a pre reaper code state is also an improvement Maybe then, they can use their giant Dyson sphere brain to invent for the quarian the same clear face shield technology that everyone else's helmets already have, so navigating basic social encounters isn't so confusing anymore. Unless the quarian are all larping as the Mandalorian and don't want their faces seen.
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Post by melbella on Jan 20, 2021 1:57:25 GMT
Maybe then, they can use their giant Dyson sphere brain to invent for the quarian the same clear face shield technology that everyone else's helmets already have, so navigating basic social encounters isn't so confusing anymore. I know, right? Why the hell can't they make see-through face shields? Also, why are there no old videos of quarians pre-Morning War? You'd think they'd been wearing those suits since before the asari discovered the Citadel instead of just 300 years. ME universe needs more Aethytas and fewer dumbasses running things.
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Post by ahglock on Jan 20, 2021 2:34:46 GMT
Sure. You pretty much have to have metagame knowledge to even know how to fail bad enough at the SM to trigger it Albiet, personally, I find it a less ridiculous outcome than synthesis. It didn't give trees circuit boards. Yeah that whole bit with even plants getting synthesized. Like, I guess that solves the potential conflict between machines and flowers. Makes eating tricky though. Or do the sentient plants that you communicate with and understand just go along with it as part of the consensus.
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Post by ahglock on Jan 20, 2021 2:42:52 GMT
1. Literally all that has to happen is Ryder say to anyone, I found out that Garson had a benefactor paying the way, and came across evidence they had garson murdered. She did not die in the scourge incident, i know nothing else. How the bleep is that only something he can do, and if he can come across the data anyone can even if it is a different route, like one of the benefactors agents sequels.
2. Who gives a shit about mom. I'm curios what drink Zaed was drinking in retirement pictures as well and that is about as important.
3. anyone can establish colonies, he teraformed them into golden worlds. We have been establishing colonies for thousands of years all without drop ships that instant prefab a towns worth of buildings and infrastructure, in shitty environments. Even the people in the Andromeda initiative aren't that incompetent.
4. Ryder is the only person so far who can manipulate remtech, everyone in the area should be able to once Sam stops being a bitch and shares. Literally all he is doing is communicating with it, he's deciphered the language, upload that onto a omni tool and let others do it. And on top of that there is like 0 need for that since Ryder can do that from meridian, he can retire into the admin team and control shit from the control center. Let someone who isnt awful take his place in the field.
5. Shepard has plenty of dropped plot threads to deal with as well so who cares, and again anyone can deal with kett.
I think the simplest counterpoint to this would be these two key facts: -Ryder is guaranteed to survive the Meridian conflict -Ryder has the closest narrative ties to all of the events leading to its conclusion No matter how anyone here slices it, there’s no particularly sound reasoning not to have Ryder be the one that’s involved in the resolution of any loose ends the story presents us with. Sure, but outside the he may be dead part there is no sound reason it would not be Shepard for any of the MW things as well. He has narrative ties to most of the potential story hooks as well. then again I don't think there is really a sound reason for why it needs to be either of them either. Can be sure, but need be not even close.
They are going with a new protag in DA4 and that is a direct continuation of DAIs DLC. Ryder has far far far less narrative hooks in these stories than the inquisitor does in DA4. Outside the mom one the only hook is really why not he's there and the pathfinder. Nothing really ties him to the story on any personal level compared to any other person there. He might have some more starting knowledge, but giving a crap about who killed gien garson is something anyone can give a crap about. Heck Tann probably cares more because he got saddled with leadership due to this crap.
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Post by explorerclass on Jan 20, 2021 3:59:38 GMT
Why am I playing 3 games (not to mention 4 books and many comics) that all build up that unity is the best option. Freedom of choice thst only synthesis gives. Why does all this material tell me that destruction is bad (literally every time destruction is actually *shown* it’s terrible, 9/10 we try to avoid it and the other times it’s a tragedy) Only for Shepard to destroy everything? It makes no sense from a writing stand point. It’s just ruining the storytelling. I don't know if someone has already made this post but the Synthesis ending literately robs freedom of choice for hundreds of trillions of sentient and non-sentient beings.
Destroy is the Pyrrhic victory that keeps the Mass Effect universe somewhat intact. Control as well to a far lesser extent because I don't see conflicts or even normalcy arising under Galactic Overlord Shepard's reign.
I will miss the Geth though, they were more impactful than I give them credit for.
So this blew up a lot while irl got busy for me so I wasn’t able to respond much But no, synthesis doesn’t rob freedoms. People have complete and free will throughout it
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 20, 2021 8:22:14 GMT
I think the simplest counterpoint to this would be these two key facts: -Ryder is guaranteed to survive the Meridian conflict -Ryder has the closest narrative ties to all of the events leading to its conclusion No matter how anyone here slices it, there’s no particularly sound reasoning not to have Ryder be the one that’s involved in the resolution of any loose ends the story presents us with. Sure, but outside the he may be dead part there is no sound reason it would not be Shepard for any of the MW things as well. He has narrative ties to most of the potential story hooks as well. then again I don't think there is really a sound reason for why it needs to be either of them either. Can be sure, but need be not even close.
They are going with a new protag in DA4 and that is a direct continuation of DAIs DLC. Ryder has far far far less narrative hooks in these stories than the inquisitor does in DA4. Outside the mom one the only hook is really why not he's there and the pathfinder. Nothing really ties him to the story on any personal level compared to any other person there. He might have some more starting knowledge, but giving a crap about who killed gien garson is something anyone can give a crap about. Heck Tann probably cares more because he got saddled with leadership due to this crap.
Having more starting knowledge is actually more than enough. You’d really have to establish why Ryder *shouldn’t* be the one that would do the follow-up. Like, why should a new character be introduced when there’s already one standing right there that already knows what’s going on and can explore these threads? The Inquisitor’s likely exclusion from being the protagonist at least has a reason, that being their disfigurement, but Ryder has no such limitation. To clarify here, I’m comparing Ryder to Shepard as of Mass Effect 1, not the entire trilogy. If Ryder had a trilogy-spanning narrative that resolved itself, I would be making the same argument to move on from that character as well. I don’t believe a protagonist should stick around for center stage after reaching the trilogy’s conclusion. Their job is done, and it’s high time to push forward and allow players to experience another beginning in the setting from a different character perspective.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 20, 2021 9:25:16 GMT
To clarify here, I’m comparing Ryder to Shepard as of Mass Effect 1, not the entire trilogy. If Ryder had a trilogy-spanning narrative that resolved itself, I would be making the same argument to move on from that character as well. I don’t believe a protagonist should stick around for center stage after reaching the trilogy’s conclusion. Their job is done, and it’s high time to push forward and allow players to experience another beginning in the setting from a different character perspective. I understand the point you are trying to make, but ... -Nobody liked the ending to ME3 and ME3, in itself, left a lot to be desired -Paying extra to have some of those things somewhat mitigated and not fixed is also not appealing -Very few people actually liked Ryder -Mass Effect is going through a hard time -It is not unusual to have protagonists return that did their due -Especially when the the franchise is falling on hard times, in order to try and restore it -Nobody trusts Bioware -If the point is to kill the franchise off, then this is a good thread to follow on; nobody will be asking for Ryder's third -This will further damage Bioware And all I get as answers to these are "Bioware should do what they think is right" or "what would be more exciting for the game". Nobody wants to address the actual problems, nobody wants to make a case against any of these. The sequel to Ryder, right now, has as much prospect as Bioware launching Anthem 2. Even a game with an entirely new, unknown protagonist, has as much draw as Anthem 2. The franchise died and Andromeda sold less than Anthem. How does serving seconds of what was already rejected by the gaming public do anything to save it? Even the new characters will be of the same quality, or worse. They all fall flat with the gaming audience and all the conversations that we can strike up with people, do not pertain to the Andromeda characters. Or the Inquisition characters. The fact that Bioware makes them expendable by design, also makes them completely irrelevant, even as a per game basis. And how are they going to carry these "long running" Live Service games? You can't carry a game, with a cast people don't like. Are you going to give Ryder the option to tell everyone to fuck off? Who is going to replace them? This is a $60 coaster. The fact that Bioware is even trying it is admirable. Admirably stupid, but admirable nonetheless.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 20, 2021 9:31:37 GMT
The Inquisitor’s likely exclusion from being the protagonist at least has a reason, that being their disfigurement Side note, but that’s not why they took the hand. When asked if it was, Patrick denied it stating “there are many amputee heroes”. I imagine them going back on that and stating that as the reason would backfire spectacularly. First, because it is nonsense especially after establishing prosthetics as existing in the lore multiple times. Second, because that would be a huge blow to their persona as a studio that strives to represent everyone.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 20, 2021 9:45:43 GMT
The Inquisitor’s likely exclusion from being the protagonist at least has a reason, that being their disfigurement Side note, but that’s not why they took the hand. When asked if it was, Patrick denied it stating “there are many amputee heroes”. I imagine them going back on that and stating that as the reason would backfire spectacularly. First, because it is nonsense especially after establishing prosthetics as existing in the lore multiple times. Second, because that would be a huge blow to their persona as a studio that strives to represent everyone. I’m sure the idea of being accused of being ableist would be in the back of their minds. Heck just look at Ubisoft and what it did with Valhalla just because one person complained about something or other. In the end, it doesn’t matter what they say. As a gameplay system, being cripped by the loss of that arm limits the types of gameplay mechanics they can implement, unless they’d just go full on mechanized magical iron man arm that can use two-handed weapons and dual daggers.
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