inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Jan 20, 2021 9:48:49 GMT
To clarify here, I’m comparing Ryder to Shepard as of Mass Effect 1, not the entire trilogy. If Ryder had a trilogy-spanning narrative that resolved itself, I would be making the same argument to move on from that character as well. I don’t believe a protagonist should stick around for center stage after reaching the trilogy’s conclusion. Their job is done, and it’s high time to push forward and allow players to experience another beginning in the setting from a different character perspective. I understand the point you are trying to make, but ... -Nobody liked the ending to ME3 and ME3, in itself, left a lot to be desired -Paying extra to have some of those things somewhat mitigated and not fixed is also not appealing -Very few people actually liked Ryder -Mass Effect is going through a hard time -It is not unusual to have protagonists return that did their due -Especially when the the franchise is falling on hard times, in order to try and restore it -Nobody trusts Bioware -If the point is to kill the franchise off, then this is a good thread to follow on; nobody will be asking for Ryder's third -This will further damage Bioware And all I get as answers to these are "Bioware should do what they think is right" or "what would be more exciting for the game". Nobody wants to address the actual problems, nobody wants to make a case against any of these. The sequel to Ryder, right now, has as much prospect as Bioware launching Anthem 2. Even a game with an entirely new, unknown protagonist, has as much draw as Anthem 2. The franchise died and Andromeda sold less than Anthem. How does serving seconds of what was already rejected by the gaming public do anything to save it? Even the new characters will be of the same quality, or worse. They all fall flat with the gaming audience and all the conversations that we can strike up with people, do not pertain to the Andromeda characters. Or the Inquisition characters. The fact that Bioware makes them expendable by design, also makes them completely irrelevant, even as a per game basis. And how are they going to carry these "long running" Live Service games? You can't carry a game, with a cast people don't like. Are you going to give Ryder the option to tell everyone to fuck off? Who is going to replace them? This is a $60 coaster. The fact that Bioware is even trying it is admirable. Admirably stupid, but admirable nonetheless. I address this list in a previous comment, under the more meta-level reasoning for not going with a specific character (marketing/salability). If we want to argue which product might be more attractive to customers, that’s one thing, but I’m speaking strictly of story, which is entirely independent of that.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 20, 2021 11:02:02 GMT
If we want to argue which product might be more attractive to customers, that’s one thing, but I’m speaking strictly of story, which is entirely independent of that. The thing about story; you can't know it beforehand and as such, you can't know if it is to your liking. What you can know about it is: -Do I trust the studio -Do I trust the writers -Do I like the setting -Is it worth full price 3 out of those 4 are going to be a hard no. For some, it's going to be 4/4. People are going to need something more than "the story might not be shit, the 8th time". Anthem had a worse story and sold better than Andromeda. Anthem was a worse game in general and sold better than Andromeda. ME5 is not going to sell better than Andromeda. Even with Liara, it's not going to sell 3-5 million copies. You see more triple A flops than successes. And the successes come from the tried and true; Respawn, Rockstar, Treyarch etc. Compared to Bioware, Larian sells better and with smaller budgets. ME5 could have the greatest story ever told in the medium. That nobody will ever play. Congratulations, I guess.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Jan 20, 2021 11:57:40 GMT
If we want to argue which product might be more attractive to customers, that’s one thing, but I’m speaking strictly of story, which is entirely independent of that. The thing about story; you can't know it beforehand and as such, you can't know if it is to your liking. What you can know about it is: -Do I trust the studio -Do I trust the writers -Do I like the setting -Is it worth full price 3 out of those 4 are going to be a hard no. For some, it's going to be 4/4. People are going to need something more than "the story might not be shit, the 8th time". Anthem had a worse story and sold better than Andromeda. Anthem was a worse game in general and sold better than Andromeda. ME5 is not going to sell better than Andromeda. Even with Liara, it's not going to sell 3-5 million copies. You see more triple A flops than successes. And the successes come from the tried and true; Respawn, Rockstar, Treyarch etc. Compared to Bioware, Larian sells better and with smaller budgets. ME5 could have the greatest story ever told in the medium. That nobody will ever play. Congratulations, I guess. When I discuss story, I’m discussing the story we already got, as opposed to what we’ve yet to receive. Future stories never work for this discussion, because you could theoretically write anything you want specifically to cater to a preexisting character. But, that has nothing to do with follow-ups to an existing story, which is what I’m going on about here. For better or worse, Shepard’s story is complete. The reaper conflict is the frame in which this character elevates to the Big Damn Hero and potentially dies to see it through. Everything that happens now would be tangents in the aftermath rather than a true sequel that runs with an ongoing, overarching narrative. You could create scenarios in which Shepard would be required, but there’s no unresolved threads that lead into them as of now. Whether or not fans are satisfied with the conclusion or trust the studio or anything like that is neither here or there. Our personal feelings in the team producing it or the company that publishes it has nothing to do with this aspect of the fiction. When I discuss Ryder, I only use this as an example insofar that they provide the most basic framework for the discussion pertaining to the franchise. How we feel about the quality of the characters, dialogue, story and setting are irrelevant, less so because we all know now that the next game is most certainly not going to take place there anyway. The conclusion to the game functions about identical as ME1’s. A big bad is defeated, but the actual threat of the enemy faction remains. Similarly, the inherent “specialness” of both characters no longer plays an integral role in the plot going forward (the cipher and SAM). We can argue forever about whether or not fans would be interested in a non-Shepard sequel, but since BioWare will do whatever it feels prudent from both a business and to whatever extent creative perspective regardless of what we think, all I’m really interested in is discussing story and story alone.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Apr 24, 2024 18:36:29 GMT
24,254
themikefest
14,808
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Jan 20, 2021 15:32:07 GMT
If MEA got dlc, it's likely they would have explained who the benefactor and all that other stuff. For whatever reason, the game didn't get dlc. If there's to be a sequel to MEA, why would the game feature answering those questions when no dlc was made for MEA? Maybe EA wants the game to be forgotten. It's possible a sequel could take place x number of years after the events of MEA. If that means no Ryder, I would be ok with that. Wasn't the book that released after MEA released suppose to answer those questions?
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 20, 2021 15:35:41 GMT
all I’m really interested in is discussing story and story alone. Alright.
|
|
ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,867 Likes: 3,483
inherit
9886
0
Apr 24, 2024 17:21:26 GMT
3,483
ahglock
2,867
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
|
Post by ahglock on Jan 20, 2021 17:10:33 GMT
Sure, but outside the he may be dead part there is no sound reason it would not be Shepard for any of the MW things as well. He has narrative ties to most of the potential story hooks as well. then again I don't think there is really a sound reason for why it needs to be either of them either. Can be sure, but need be not even close.
They are going with a new protag in DA4 and that is a direct continuation of DAIs DLC. Ryder has far far far less narrative hooks in these stories than the inquisitor does in DA4. Outside the mom one the only hook is really why not he's there and the pathfinder. Nothing really ties him to the story on any personal level compared to any other person there. He might have some more starting knowledge, but giving a crap about who killed gien garson is something anyone can give a crap about. Heck Tann probably cares more because he got saddled with leadership due to this crap.
Having more starting knowledge is actually more than enough. You’d really have to establish why Ryder *shouldn’t* be the one that would do the follow-up. Like, why should a new character be introduced when there’s already one standing right there that already knows what’s going on and can explore these threads? The Inquisitor’s likely exclusion from being the protagonist at least has a reason, that being their disfigurement, but Ryder has no such limitation. To clarify here, I’m comparing Ryder to Shepard as of Mass Effect 1, not the entire trilogy. If Ryder had a trilogy-spanning narrative that resolved itself, I would be making the same argument to move on from that character as well. I don’t believe a protagonist should stick around for center stage after reaching the trilogy’s conclusion. Their job is done, and it’s high time to push forward and allow players to experience another beginning in the setting from a different character perspective.
I think the difference is the ending of MEA was more in line scope and story beat wise as the ending of ME3. ME1 is all about discovering this galactic ending threat, the ending is they stopped this one dude but they need to stop the reapers as a whole who are coming which is finally accomplished din ME3. The story arc of MEA is make this place habitable so we can settle down here, he does that, the end of MEA is more inline with defeating the reapers entirely than just stopping sovereign. Are there additional hooks sure, but if MEA had been a trilogy it was shaping up to its main story arc not being Kett, not being who are the X, who is the benefactor, but it is make this sector habitable. Ryders trilogy ending was put in the first game, the rest is just side arcs.
|
|
inherit
1129
0
Mar 19, 2024 19:19:28 GMT
2,051
traks
1,012
Aug 22, 2016 11:07:02 GMT
August 2016
traks
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
t_raks_99
|
Post by traks on Jan 20, 2021 17:25:58 GMT
If MEA got dlc, it's likely they would have explained who the benefactor and all that other stuff. For whatever reason, the game didn't get dlc. If there's to be a sequel to MEA, why would the game feature answering those questions when no dlc was made for MEA? Maybe EA wants the game to be forgotten. It's possible a sequel could take place x number of years after the events of MEA. If that means no Ryder, I would be ok with that. Wasn't the book that released after MEA released suppose to answer those questions?The books are prequels/sidequels and have nothing to do with what happens in MEA. The benefactor was definitely meant as a character to feature in future games (which we might not see, just saying). Here is what is known about the benefactor out of the game files: bsn.boards.net/post/864634CharacterName: Mysterious Benefactor Gender: Female Character description: A character in the Alec Ryder memory flashbacks. This is the Mysterious Benefactor -- the secret backer of the entire Andromeda Initiative who original hired Alec. She's a woman, though her face will remain hidden in this game and we'll only hear her voice. Race: Human Character Type: Major AgeRange: 45
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Apr 23, 2024 17:30:54 GMT
30,246
Hanako Ikezawa
22,353
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 20, 2021 17:48:03 GMT
Side note, but that’s not why they took the hand. When asked if it was, Patrick denied it stating “there are many amputee heroes”. I imagine them going back on that and stating that as the reason would backfire spectacularly. First, because it is nonsense especially after establishing prosthetics as existing in the lore multiple times. Second, because that would be a huge blow to their persona as a studio that strives to represent everyone. I’m sure the idea of being accused of being ableist would be in the back of their minds. Heck just look at Ubisoft and what it did with Valhalla just because one person complained about something or other. In the end, it doesn’t matter what they say. As a gameplay system, being cripped by the loss of that arm limits the types of gameplay mechanics they can implement, unless they’d just go full on mechanized magical iron man arm that can use two-handed weapons and dual daggers. As I said, those kind of prosthetics were established to exist in the setting. One of the Tevinter Nights protagonists has a prosthetic leg yet still able to explore and fight without issue.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Apr 23, 2024 17:30:54 GMT
30,246
Hanako Ikezawa
22,353
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 20, 2021 17:49:36 GMT
If MEA got dlc, it's likely they would have explained who the benefactor and all that other stuff. For whatever reason, the game didn't get dlc. If there's to be a sequel to MEA, why would the game feature answering those questions when no dlc was made for MEA? Maybe EA wants the game to be forgotten. It's possible a sequel could take place x number of years after the events of MEA. If that means no Ryder, I would be ok with that. Wasn't the book that released after MEA released suppose to answer those questions? The Benefactor wouldn’t have been wrapped up in DLC. I remember one of the devs, Walters I think, saying that was part of the mega story that would be told over numerous games.
|
|
Radec
N3
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,317
inherit
10019
0
1,317
Radec
614
Mar 23, 2018 18:30:38 GMT
March 2018
radec
|
Post by Radec on Jan 20, 2021 17:53:29 GMT
Having more starting knowledge is actually more than enough. You’d really have to establish why Ryder *shouldn’t* be the one that would do the follow-up. Like, why should a new character be introduced when there’s already one standing right there that already knows what’s going on and can explore these threads? The Inquisitor’s likely exclusion from being the protagonist at least has a reason, that being their disfigurement, but Ryder has no such limitation. To clarify here, I’m comparing Ryder to Shepard as of Mass Effect 1, not the entire trilogy. If Ryder had a trilogy-spanning narrative that resolved itself, I would be making the same argument to move on from that character as well. I don’t believe a protagonist should stick around for center stage after reaching the trilogy’s conclusion. Their job is done, and it’s high time to push forward and allow players to experience another beginning in the setting from a different character perspective.
I think the difference is the ending of MEA was more in line scope and story beat wise as the ending of ME3. ME1 is all about discovering this galactic ending threat, the ending is they stopped this one dude but they need to stop the reapers as a whole who are coming which is finally accomplished din ME3. The story arc of MEA is make this place habitable so we can settle down here, he does that, the end of MEA is more inline with defeating the reapers entirely than just stopping sovereign. Are there additional hooks sure, but if MEA had been a trilogy it was shaping up to its main story arc not being Kett, not being who are the X, who is the benefactor, but it is make this sector habitable. Ryders trilogy ending was put in the first game, the rest is just side arcs.
I don't know that. MEA works as a self contained story (just as ME1 did) but it's obviously putting hooks into a greater showdown with the kett at the end. I mean the last scene is the Primus staring out at the cluster, then walking offscreen to ominous music. They clearly thought they'd continue it.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Apr 24, 2024 18:36:29 GMT
24,254
themikefest
14,808
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Jan 20, 2021 19:07:27 GMT
If MEA got dlc, it's likely they would have explained who the benefactor and all that other stuff. For whatever reason, the game didn't get dlc. If there's to be a sequel to MEA, why would the game feature answering those questions when no dlc was made for MEA? Maybe EA wants the game to be forgotten. It's possible a sequel could take place x number of years after the events of MEA. If that means no Ryder, I would be ok with that. Wasn't the book that released after MEA released suppose to answer those questions? The Benefactor wouldn’t have been wrapped up in DLC. I remember one of the devs, Walters I think, saying that was part of the mega story that would be told over numerous games. The problem I have with the benefactor is big Ryder and garson. Why didn't they question the benefactor when first coming forward to help? It's only when they're getting ready to leave, that both have doubts. Maybe it was because big Ryder didn't care as long a he got the voice in his head, and Garson saw the credit sign turning her brain to mush. I doubt that will ever be answered since Big Ryder is dead, and Garson is believed to be dead. The other thing is when did the benefactor show up with his/her/it's/them wallet to lend a hand, and how much of the project was completed at that time?
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Apr 23, 2024 17:30:54 GMT
30,246
Hanako Ikezawa
22,353
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 20, 2021 19:35:08 GMT
The Benefactor wouldn’t have been wrapped up in DLC. I remember one of the devs, Walters I think, saying that was part of the mega story that would be told over numerous games. The problem I have with the benefactor is big Ryder and garson. Why didn't they question the benefactor when first coming forward to help? It's only when they're getting ready to leave, that both have doubts. Maybe it was because big Ryder didn't care as long a he got the voice in his head, and Garson saw the credit sign turning her brain to mush. I doubt that will ever be answered since Big Ryder is dead, and Garson is believed to be dead. The other thing is when did the benefactor show up with his/her/it's/them wallet to lend a hand, and how much of the project was completed at that time? You pretty much answered your first question. Jien Garson needed the money, and Alec Ryder saw this as his last chance to save his wife by working on SAM. I’m sure they did have questions, but at the time don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. Plus maybe as time got closer, the Benefactor started showing more subtle signs of there being more than just wanting to finance the project. For example Alec investigating the threat they alluded to, and this learning a bit about Reapers before they showed up. As for the second question, that’s one I’m definitely hoping gets answered. Like what if they provided the ODSY Drive, thus opening a bunch of potential origins rather than just this cycle cracking it.
|
|
ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,867 Likes: 3,483
inherit
9886
0
Apr 24, 2024 17:21:26 GMT
3,483
ahglock
2,867
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
|
Post by ahglock on Jan 20, 2021 19:35:22 GMT
I think the difference is the ending of MEA was more in line scope and story beat wise as the ending of ME3. ME1 is all about discovering this galactic ending threat, the ending is they stopped this one dude but they need to stop the reapers as a whole who are coming which is finally accomplished din ME3. The story arc of MEA is make this place habitable so we can settle down here, he does that, the end of MEA is more inline with defeating the reapers entirely than just stopping sovereign. Are there additional hooks sure, but if MEA had been a trilogy it was shaping up to its main story arc not being Kett, not being who are the X, who is the benefactor, but it is make this sector habitable. Ryders trilogy ending was put in the first game, the rest is just side arcs.
I don't know that. MEA works as a self contained story (just as ME1 did) but it's obviously putting hooks into a greater showdown with the kett at the end. I mean the last scene is the Primus staring out at the cluster, then walking offscreen to ominous music. They clearly thought they'd continue it. Yes, they left plot hooks. But the entire story arc for Shepard was the reapers. The entire story arc of Ryder is make this place habitable, which they did in the first game. They made it more self contained intentionally as from their statements they were not planning on a trilogy again. They were going for the more DA model of self contained story with some hooks for future games. DA2 starts with Cassandra grilling Varric about the champion as the chantry was collapsing threatening the world, but the champion is a basic NPC in DAI. They set up the hooks, but it wasn't part of that characters main story. Anymore than the leviathans or dark energy are Shepards even though he is tied to them in ME2/3.
I generally prefer MEs style but I think Ryder and crew were total duds so I want a new protagonist. I can see why they could choose to tie Ryder to these plot hooks but he is not integral to them in anyway and it is easily set up to DA it. People saying it has to be Ryder because only he knows there is a benefactor is like someone saying it has to be Shepard because he is the only one who met the leviathans.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Apr 23, 2024 17:30:54 GMT
30,246
Hanako Ikezawa
22,353
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 20, 2021 19:38:11 GMT
I don't know that. MEA works as a self contained story (just as ME1 did) but it's obviously putting hooks into a greater showdown with the kett at the end. I mean the last scene is the Primus staring out at the cluster, then walking offscreen to ominous music. They clearly thought they'd continue it. Yes, they left plot hooks. But the entire story arc for Shepard was the reapers. The entire story arc of Ryder is make this place habitable, which they did in the first game. They made it more self contained intentionally as from their statements they were not planning on a trilogy again. They were going for the more DA model of self contained story with some hooks for future games. DA2 starts with Cassandra grilling Varric about the champion as the chantry was collapsing threatening the world, but the champion is a basic NPC in DAI. They set up the hooks, but it wasn't part of that characters main story. Anymore than the leviathans or dark energy are Shepards even though he is tied to them in ME2/3.
I generally prefer MEs style but I think Ryder and crew were total duds so I want a new protagonist. I can see why they could choose to tie Ryder to these plot hooks but he is not integral to them in anyway and it is easily set up to DA it. People saying it has to be Ryder because only he knows there is a benefactor is like someone saying it has to be Shepard because he is the only one who met the leviathans.
Shepard told many people about the Leviathans. The only entity only Shepard knows about is the Catalyst, and that’s dealt with one way or another already.
|
|
ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,867 Likes: 3,483
inherit
9886
0
Apr 24, 2024 17:21:26 GMT
3,483
ahglock
2,867
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
|
Post by ahglock on Jan 20, 2021 19:41:21 GMT
Yes, they left plot hooks. But the entire story arc for Shepard was the reapers. The entire story arc of Ryder is make this place habitable, which they did in the first game. They made it more self contained intentionally as from their statements they were not planning on a trilogy again. They were going for the more DA model of self contained story with some hooks for future games. DA2 starts with Cassandra grilling Varric about the champion as the chantry was collapsing threatening the world, but the champion is a basic NPC in DAI. They set up the hooks, but it wasn't part of that characters main story. Anymore than the leviathans or dark energy are Shepards even though he is tied to them in ME2/3.
I generally prefer MEs style but I think Ryder and crew were total duds so I want a new protagonist. I can see why they could choose to tie Ryder to these plot hooks but he is not integral to them in anyway and it is easily set up to DA it. People saying it has to be Ryder because only he knows there is a benefactor is like someone saying it has to be Shepard because he is the only one who met the leviathans.
Shepard told many people about the Leviathans. The only entity only Shepard knows about is the Catalyst, and that’s dealt with one way or another already. Wooooo.
Its literally a 30 second recap or info, and plenty of people know about the benefactor(the people on the benefactors side)
Edit to add, I'm pretty sure Ryder reveals that there was a benefactor already anyways its just the murder part he kept secret. I remember basically telling Tann.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Apr 24, 2024 18:36:29 GMT
24,254
themikefest
14,808
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Jan 20, 2021 20:00:14 GMT
You pretty much answered your first question. Jien Garson needed the money, and Alec Ryder saw this as his last chance to save his wife by working on SAM. I’m sure they did have questions, but at the time don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. Plus maybe as time got closer, the Benefactor started showing more subtle signs of there being more than just wanting to finance the project. Nope. When someone offers a large sum of money, and whatever other resources, you want to do a background check to make sure he/she/it is on the up and up. Then ask why and what's in it for he/she/it. I would also want to meet one-on-one or the group. You won't agree because you don't have a problem with that. The reason I mentioned that is because of the timeline. The Initiative was founded in 2176 with Garson being the big cheese. The ships leave in late 2185. In that time they were able to build fancy ships as large as a capital ship reaper, half of the Nexus, manufacture new armor, design and build a new drive no one knew about, made the jetpack do what it does, but for some reason not used in ME3, except Cerberus, but that was for going up and down, and then have information given to them about golden worlds in Andromeda seen through a geth telescope. All this without anyone knowing about it. Also add that they built 5-6 tempest ships in that time. The Nomad as well. About that telescope crap. Did Legion know about it? If so, why didn't it share that information? That could have been very useful. Have a mission to infiltrate that area, then use the telescope to locate the reapers, and possibly where they hide for 50,000 years. Of course it would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack, but it's a missed opportunity. Let's say the reapers are spotted. It might give the galaxy an approximate time frame of when the reapers might arrive. That time could be used to prepare better than what was seen in ME3. Does it mean the reapers will be defeated? It might depending on when the plans to the crucible are found. Those plans might have been found earlier. Of course that couldn't happen since that telescope crap never existed at that time.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Apr 23, 2024 17:30:54 GMT
30,246
Hanako Ikezawa
22,353
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 20, 2021 21:27:32 GMT
You pretty much answered your first question. Jien Garson needed the money, and Alec Ryder saw this as his last chance to save his wife by working on SAM. I’m sure they did have questions, but at the time don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. Plus maybe as time got closer, the Benefactor started showing more subtle signs of there being more than just wanting to finance the project. Nope. When someone offers a large sum of money, and whatever other resources, you want to do a background check to make sure he/she/it is on the up and up. Then ask why and what's in it for he/she/it. I would also want to meet one-on-one or the group. You won't agree because you don't have a problem with that. The reason I mentioned that is because of the timeline. The Initiative was founded in 2176 with Garson being the big cheese. The ships leave in late 2185. In that time they were able to build fancy ships as large as a capital ship reaper, half of the Nexus, manufacture new armor, design and build a new drive no one knew about, made the jetpack do what it does, but for some reason not used in ME3, except Cerberus, but that was for going up and down, and then have information given to them about golden worlds in Andromeda seen through a geth telescope. All this without anyone knowing about it. Also add that they built 5-6 tempest ships in that time. The Nomad as well. About that telescope crap. Did Legion know about it? If so, why didn't it share that information? That could have been very useful. Have a mission to infiltrate that area, then use the telescope to locate the reapers, and possibly where they hide for 50,000 years. Of course it would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack, but it's a missed opportunity. Let's say the reapers are spotted. It might give the galaxy an approximate time frame of when the reapers might arrive. That time could be used to prepare better than what was seen in ME3. Does it mean the reapers will be defeated? It might depending on when the plans to the crucible are found. Those plans might have been found earlier. Of course that couldn't happen since that telescope crap never existed at that time. Uh huh. Yeah, I'm sure if someone you loved was dying and somebody offered you the miracle cure you'd refuse until you did a background check and personal meet up. Also again both Jien and Alec were investigating, hence why Jien was murdered. Alec would have also most likely suffered a "tragic accident". As for the other bit, well first and foremost the reason it is never mentioned is because Andromeda is a video game that began to be created after those other video games you mentioned were made. So of course one game won't reference something that doesn't exist. It's why I hope they add some sort of nod in the remaster, even just a news story or two. With your Legion mission idea, all I will say is good luck finding even a group of two kilometer objects in the vastness of dark space. It wouldn't even be finding a needle in a haystack, it'd be finding a needle on a continent. A moving needle too, since by then the Reapers were up and flying to the Milky Way.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Apr 23, 2024 17:30:54 GMT
30,246
Hanako Ikezawa
22,353
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 20, 2021 21:30:55 GMT
Shepard told many people about the Leviathans. The only entity only Shepard knows about is the Catalyst, and that’s dealt with one way or another already. Wooooo.
Its literally a 30 second recap or info, and plenty of people know about the benefactor(the people on the benefactors side)
Edit to add, I'm pretty sure Ryder reveals that there was a benefactor already anyways its just the murder part he kept secret. I remember basically telling Tann.
To which Tann doesn't believe you, saying they don't exist or if they did they are either a phantom or dead. And that's the only person Ryder tells, as they and SAM soon after investigate JIen's death and find the truth, but keep it to themselves because obviously that knowledge is dangerous.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Apr 24, 2024 18:36:29 GMT
24,254
themikefest
14,808
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Jan 20, 2021 22:22:49 GMT
Uh huh. Yeah, I'm sure if someone you loved was dying and somebody offered you the miracle cure you'd refuse until you did a background check and personal meet up. What miracle cure? Being stored in a freezer for over 600 hundred years with your fingers crossed hoping that a cure might be found? Investigating what? Is there any proof to that? I don't recall a reason given as to why she was killed. Ah yes, mention something in the remaster. Here's what will be mentioned. After the reapers are destroyed, Shepard wakes up saying to her/himself what made her/him dream about some crap in Andromeda. It would be luck finding the reapers. Is that the same reason for finding those golden worlds in another galaxy? Either way, I never said they would be found. I said lets say they are spotted, meaning hypotheical. It was a missed opportunity.
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,171
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
7,823
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Jan 21, 2021 3:16:51 GMT
Uh huh. Yeah, I'm sure if someone you loved was dying and somebody offered you the miracle cure you'd refuse until you did a background check and personal meet up. What miracle cure? Being stored in a freezer for over 600 hundred years with your fingers crossed hoping that a cure might be found? You don't remember the game well enough. The hope was that SAM would be able to enhance here body enough to cure her. Freezing was plan B.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Jan 21, 2021 7:20:25 GMT
You pretty much answered your first question. Jien Garson needed the money, and Alec Ryder saw this as his last chance to save his wife by working on SAM. I’m sure they did have questions, but at the time don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. Plus maybe as time got closer, the Benefactor started showing more subtle signs of there being more than just wanting to finance the project. Nope. When someone offers a large sum of money, and whatever other resources, you want to do a background check to make sure he/she/it is on the up and up. Then ask why and what's in it for he/she/it. I would also want to meet one-on-one or the group. You won't agree because you don't have a problem with that. We don’t really have enough information to work with in regards to Garson and whatever “vetting” process she could even come up with, but the opportunity likely struck at their most desperate, and desperate people tend not to ask as many questions. This is definitely the case for Alec Ryder, who was out of options in the Milky Way, especially since the Alliance put the kibosh on the research he was using to save his wife, and left him out to dry. If the options are accept defeat at the hands of the Alliance along with his wife’s eventual death, with no career prospects to speak of, or take an opportunity to buy more time to find a solution, it’s not all that difficult to see which one to go for. I guess he could’ve just let it all go, become a merc and let the chips fall where they may, but fat lot of good that would do.
|
|
ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,867 Likes: 3,483
inherit
9886
0
Apr 24, 2024 17:21:26 GMT
3,483
ahglock
2,867
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
|
Post by ahglock on Jan 21, 2021 15:07:19 GMT
Wooooo.
Its literally a 30 second recap or info, and plenty of people know about the benefactor(the people on the benefactors side)
Edit to add, I'm pretty sure Ryder reveals that there was a benefactor already anyways its just the murder part he kept secret. I remember basically telling Tann.
To which Tann doesn't believe you, saying they don't exist or if they did they are either a phantom or dead. And that's the only person Ryder tells, as they and SAM soon after investigate JIen's death and find the truth, but keep it to themselves because obviously that knowledge is dangerous. Who cares what Tann thought, the information is now out there. Tann could relate the fanciful story to anyone, Tann may think its possible but the whole surviving thing takes precedence , but now that they are controlling meridian they have more time to look into this as a potential threat. And Ryder being an idiot and thinking only he can know things may change. And on top of that again all of the Benefactors agents know this as well, any one of them can slip up, use the intelligence as a bargaining chip etc to reveal it to any new protagonist. And then the new PC contacts Ryder at some point in their investigation for what he knows.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Apr 24, 2024 18:36:29 GMT
24,254
themikefest
14,808
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Jan 21, 2021 15:56:33 GMT
You don't remember the game well enough. That's a good thing since the game wasn't well enough to have much remembered about it. ah yes, hope. She is suffering from a rare terminal disorder with no known cure. In steps this benefactor who/it all of sudden can/might be able to cure her by helping Alec make the sam thing cure her. If they're able to come up with a way to cure this disorder, why not share it with the medical world? I'm sure there are a few others who have what the mother has. He was so obsessed with trying to save his wife, that he never paid any attention to what reason the benefactor may have to help. It was only just before going to another galaxy, he decides to have doubts. To me, the benefactor didn't care about the mother. They/he/she/it was more interested in the sam thing. Fake her death letting his kids think she's dead, then stuff her in the freezer hoping a cure will eventually be found. I can see when mother is cured, if she is, she will ask her kids if they were at her funeral? Was the wake a closed casket event or did father show up with an urn, with some dirt in it, to let his kids believe it was their mother? Is there a tombstone back on Earth with her name on it?
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 21, 2021 16:17:26 GMT
Fake her death letting his kids think she's dead, then stuff her in the freezer hoping a cure will eventually be found. I can see when mother is cured, if she is, she will ask her kids if they were at her funeral? Was the wake a closed casket event or did father show up with an urn, with some dirt in it, to let his kids believe it was their mother? Is there a tombstone back on Earth with her name on it? Not only that, what if a cure would be found, in six or seven hundred years? Not only would Alec be dead, but her children as well. Isn't that just so much worse?
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Apr 24, 2024 18:36:29 GMT
24,254
themikefest
14,808
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Jan 21, 2021 17:32:19 GMT
Fake her death letting his kids think she's dead, then stuff her in the freezer hoping a cure will eventually be found. I can see when mother is cured, if she is, she will ask her kids if they were at her funeral? Was the wake a closed casket event or did father show up with an urn, with some dirt in it, to let his kids believe it was their mother? Is there a tombstone back on Earth with her name on it? Not only that, what if a cure would be found, in six or seven hundred years? Not only would Alec be dead, but her children as well. Isn't that just so much worse? For her, it would be life is playing a cruel joke on her. She knows she's going to die. She knows her husband and kids are going to another galaxy. She would never expect her husband would stuff her in a freezer for hundreds of years. There's probably files made by her kids for her in case she is cured. She then realizes her husband faked her death letting their kids believe she was dead. Now she wonders if there's a tombstone back on Earth with her name on it. Now being cured, and learning her husband and kids have been dead for however long, she's at a loss of what to do. I wouldn't be surprised if she finds the nearest bar to drink until she passes out.
|
|