inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 22, 2021 13:35:09 GMT
Fake her death letting his kids think she's dead, then stuff her in the freezer hoping a cure will eventually be found. I can see when mother is cured, if she is, she will ask her kids if they were at her funeral? Was the wake a closed casket event or did father show up with an urn, with some dirt in it, to let his kids believe it was their mother? Is there a tombstone back on Earth with her name on it? Not only that, what if a cure would be found, in six or seven hundred years? Not only would Alec be dead, but her children as well. Isn't that just so much worse? C’mon, the answer to this isn’t difficult. We already have real-life examples to draw from to determine a solution to this problem. If someone on life support is determined to have little to no chance of recovering from their condition and all options have been explored, it typically ends with simply letting it go and allowing the person to die. Had Ryder survived Habitat-7, and after potentially years of pursuing a cure, determined that there wasn’t any, he’d probably just take his wife out of cryo, and let her pass away and deal with the remains and the consequences. No one’s just going to let her sit in cold storage indefinitely. That’s just not reasonable.
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inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 22, 2021 15:08:35 GMT
C’mon, the answer to this isn’t difficult. We already have real-life examples to draw from to determine a solution to this problem. If someone on life support is determined to have little to no chance of recovering from their condition and all options have been explored, it typically ends with simply letting it go and allowing the person to die. Had Ryder survived Habitat-7, and after potentially years of pursuing a cure, determined that there wasn’t any, he’d probably just take his wife out of cryo, and let her pass away and deal with the remains and the consequences. No one’s just going to let her sit in cold storage indefinitely. That’s just not reasonable. So Alec dies and neither of the twins find Ellen while they are alive, or say one of them died in cryo, while the other died away on a mission. Then Ellen's cryopod is discovered at some point in the future, where the cure for her condition has been found. Have fun with your life now, Ellen. There are a number of things that can go wrong, that are beyond Alec's control.
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Radec
N3
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,317
inherit
10019
0
1,317
Radec
614
Mar 23, 2018 18:30:38 GMT
March 2018
radec
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Post by Radec on Jan 22, 2021 15:16:45 GMT
C’mon, the answer to this isn’t difficult. We already have real-life examples to draw from to determine a solution to this problem. If someone on life support is determined to have little to no chance of recovering from their condition and all options have been explored, it typically ends with simply letting it go and allowing the person to die. Had Ryder survived Habitat-7, and after potentially years of pursuing a cure, determined that there wasn’t any, he’d probably just take his wife out of cryo, and let her pass away and deal with the remains and the consequences. No one’s just going to let her sit in cold storage indefinitely. That’s just not reasonable. So Alec dies and neither of the twins find Ellen while they are alive, or say one of them died in cryo, while the other died away on a mission. Then Ellen's cryopod is discovered at some point in the future, where the cure for her condition has been found. Have fun with your life now, Ellen. There are a number of things that can go wrong, that are beyond Alec's control. Makes for a good dark comedy plot if they wake her 500 years later, though (think Idiocracy). I mean the Initiative was already full of morons (e.g. the entire leadership caste). Imagine how dumb Tann or Addison's ancestors will be.
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inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,241
Hanako Ikezawa
22,352
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 22, 2021 15:31:10 GMT
Not only that, what if a cure would be found, in six or seven hundred years? Not only would Alec be dead, but her children as well. Isn't that just so much worse? C’mon, the answer to this isn’t difficult. We already have real-life examples to draw from to determine a solution to this problem. If someone on life support is determined to have little to no chance of recovering from their condition and all options have been explored, it typically ends with simply letting it go and allowing the person to die. Had Ryder survived Habitat-7, and after potentially years of pursuing a cure, determined that there wasn’t any, he’d probably just take his wife out of cryo, and let her pass away and deal with the remains and the consequences. No one’s just going to let her sit in cold storage indefinitely. That’s just not reasonable. Well actually, there is that quest with the lady who was woken up by her nephew who had that super infectious disease. The options are either kill her, or she and her nephew go back into crying until a cure is discovered.
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♨ Retired
24
0
24,246
themikefest
14,804
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
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Post by themikefest on Jan 22, 2021 15:34:14 GMT
That’s just not reasonable. And stuffing her in a freezer for over 600 tears with his fingers crossed hoping for something that might be found to cure her is reasonable?
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inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 22, 2021 17:03:57 GMT
C’mon, the answer to this isn’t difficult. We already have real-life examples to draw from to determine a solution to this problem. If someone on life support is determined to have little to no chance of recovering from their condition and all options have been explored, it typically ends with simply letting it go and allowing the person to die. Had Ryder survived Habitat-7, and after potentially years of pursuing a cure, determined that there wasn’t any, he’d probably just take his wife out of cryo, and let her pass away and deal with the remains and the consequences. No one’s just going to let her sit in cold storage indefinitely. That’s just not reasonable. So Alec dies and neither of the twins find Ellen while they are alive, or say one of them died in cryo, while the other died away on a mission. Then Ellen's cryopod is discovered at some point in the future, where the cure for her condition has been found. Have fun with your life now, Ellen. There are a number of things that can go wrong, that are beyond Alec's control. Or life support fails en route and everyone dies anyway. If the idea here is that there’s an inherent risk to any of these plans, well, no shit Sherlock, but that’s not what I was addressing anyway. Obviously, none of these plans operate under the assumption of a guarantee of success. Any number of calamities could get in the way, even something as unlucky as that one pod suffering a short from age, and the cryogenics failing long before arriving to the cluster. The point is that a chance for success, however slim, might be preferable to the certainty of failure. If all Ryders had died somehow, then that issue ends right there. Ellen isn’t going to be revived by anyone, since all interested parties have perished, and once Alec’s falsification is discovered, her body will probably be dealt with as efficiently as possible.
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inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 22, 2021 17:09:48 GMT
That’s just not reasonable. And stuffing her in a freezer for over 600 tears with his fingers crossed hoping for something that might be found to cure her is reasonable? I kind of enjoy how the wording and lack of context can make it sound crazier than it actually is. After all, it’s not as if Alec and everyone else present in the story didn’t also put themselves in a “freezer”. If you’re asking if it’s unreasonable that the character is trying to buy himself time to save his wife by putting her in cryogenic stasis, I’d have to say that’s kind of an obtuse question to begin with, and a bit of a trap. After all, who exactly would it be unreasonable toward? Ellen Ryder? It’s not as if he could tell the difference if things don’t go well. Would she be upset if she was successfully revived? Can’t say that would be as pressing a concern, since she’d still be alive in the end. It could be considered irrational and an unwarranted (and unauthorized) expenditure of resources, but I think it’s more correct to consider it in terms of whether or not it’s understandable. If you were desperate to save a loved one, and had the technological means to increase your chances of doing so, you’d probably do it. You could say no if you want, but you’d just be a liar.
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inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 22, 2021 17:18:17 GMT
Or life support fails en route and everyone dies anyway. If the idea here is that there’s an inherent risk to any of these plans, well, no shit Sherlock, but that’s not what I was addressing anyway. That would be merciful. Obviously, none of these plans operate under the assumption of a guarantee of success. Any number of calamities could get in the way, even something as unlucky as that one pod suffering a short from age, and the cryogenics failing long before arriving to the cluster. The point is that a chance for success, however slim, might be preferable to the certainty of failure. You know, if I were Alec, I would have at least told Ryder junior, before I died, that their mom was stashed in a cryopod somewhere. As a failsafe. If all Ryders had died somehow, then that issue ends right there. Ellen isn’t going to be revived by anyone, since all interested parties have perished, and once Alec’s falsification is discovered, her body will probably be dealt with as efficiently as possible. You'd have to define that "efficiently". Obviously, Ellen would have expected to find herself in a cemetery, not in a cryopod at the other end of the universe, so it's not exactly like she willfully committed a crime. Much in the sense that if I got kidnapped and crossed the border to Mexico, I wouldn't really be at fault for not having a traveler's visa or my passport on me. I'd go for "humanely" rather than "efficiently". Or perhaps the Initiative is a bunch of savages.
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inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
24,246
themikefest
14,804
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
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Post by themikefest on Jan 22, 2021 17:22:53 GMT
If you were desperate to save a loved one, and had the technological means to increase your chances of doing so, you’d probably do it. You could say no if you want, but you’d just be a liar. A liar? No. I would investigate this so-called benefactor to find out more about this so-called help it/she/he/they say that might help a loved one. I would consult doctors to find out if it's possible what the benefactor claims. If the benefactor refuse or deflects any answer, then I call it's bluff saying they're full of crap. I would also not lie to my kids about their mother being dead. i would tell them exactly what I would do. As I said in another post. The benefactor didn't give a crap about the mother. I believe they/it/he/she was only interested in the sam thing Alec was working on.
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inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 22, 2021 17:40:10 GMT
Or life support fails en route and everyone dies anyway. If the idea here is that there’s an inherent risk to any of these plans, well, no shit Sherlock, but that’s not what I was addressing anyway. That would be merciful. Obviously, none of these plans operate under the assumption of a guarantee of success. Any number of calamities could get in the way, even something as unlucky as that one pod suffering a short from age, and the cryogenics failing long before arriving to the cluster. The point is that a chance for success, however slim, might be preferable to the certainty of failure. You know, if I were Alec, I would have at least told Ryder junior, before I died, that their mom was stashed in a cryopod somewhere. As a failsafe. If all Ryders had died somehow, then that issue ends right there. Ellen isn’t going to be revived by anyone, since all interested parties have perished, and once Alec’s falsification is discovered, her body will probably be dealt with as efficiently as possible. You'd have to define that "efficiently". Obviously, Ellen would have expected to find herself in a cemetery, not in a cryopod at the other end of the universe, so it's not exactly like she willfully committed a crime. Much in the sense that if I got kidnapped and crossed the border to Mexico, I wouldn't really be at fault for not having a traveler's visa or my passport on me. I'd go for "humanely" rather than "efficiently". Or perhaps the Initiative is a bunch of savages. Given that Ryder is choking to death, passing along that information right then and there verbally’s probably not going to mean anything anyway. The failsafe was the memory triggers he left behind, albeit locked behind a very weird collection mechanic. By efficiently, I mean that she would be a low priority, subsequently allowed to pass on, and her remains disposed of. However “humanely” that happens doesn’t really make much of a difference, given the situation. If all Ryders are gone, in all likelihood, the Initiative’s in a far worse state than the one we get at the start of the game, unless Cora manages to get the same job done and finagle her way around the Remnant vaults.
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inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 22, 2021 17:44:49 GMT
If you were desperate to save a loved one, and had the technological means to increase your chances of doing so, you’d probably do it. You could say no if you want, but you’d just be a liar. A liar? No. I would investigate this so-called benefactor to find out more about this so-called help it/she/he/they say that might help a loved one. I would consult doctors to find out if it's possible what the benefactor claims. If the benefactor refuse or deflects any answer, then I call it's bluff saying they're full of crap. I would also not lie to my kids about their mother being dead. i would tell them exactly what I would do. As I said in another post. The benefactor didn't give a crap about the mother. I believe they/it/he/she was only interested in the sam thing Alec was working on. We don’t really have a whole lot of details, but we do know that Ellen did receive actual medical care during their time in the Milky Way. All we can do is speculate as to how much or how little he looked into possible alternatives from any number of doctors. The game doesn’t tell us one way or the other, but we do see her in a hospital at some point. It’s reasonable to assume that this ended up being fruitless, and he attempted to take matters into his own hands, ultimately costing him his career. Whatever it is the benefactor might have wanted doesn’t very much matter. Alec was bought by the funding and technology to get what he wanted, which was more time. If it turned out that SAM was their only concern, that’d just have to be a bridge to cross later. If he had managed to save Ellen just the same, I doubt it would have made a difference.
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inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
24,246
themikefest
14,804
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
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Post by themikefest on Jan 22, 2021 17:52:12 GMT
Funny how the sam thing was being built to find a cure for the mother, but ends up being able to kill the one who has it.
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inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 22, 2021 17:57:21 GMT
Given that Ryder is choking to death, passing along that information right then and there verbally’s probably not going to mean anything anyway. If Alec believes that Ryder is going to die regardless, then perhaps it's pointless, but even as a confession, before both of them die, it would have been something to get off his chest. Seems to me like it, at least. By efficiently, I mean that she would be a low priority, subsequently allowed to pass on, and her remains disposed of. That's rather humane.
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inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 22, 2021 17:59:55 GMT
Given that Ryder is choking to death, passing along that information right then and there verbally’s probably not going to mean anything anyway. If Alec believes that Ryder is going to die regardless, then perhaps it's pointless, but even as a confession, before both of them die, it would have been something to get off his chest. Seems to me like it, at least. By efficiently, I mean that she would be a low priority, subsequently allowed to pass on, and her remains disposed of. That's rather humane. Alec mentions Ellen as his kid is passing out. This isn’t discovered however until reviewing the stored memory, because Ryder Jr is already unconscious by then.
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inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 22, 2021 18:00:46 GMT
Funny how the sam thing was being built to find a cure for the mother, but ends up being able to kill the one who has it. Well, Lexi does complain about that.
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inherit
3439
0
9,161
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
7,818
February 2017
alanc9
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 23, 2021 0:01:57 GMT
That’s just not reasonable. And stuffing her in a freezer for over 600 tears with his fingers crossed hoping for something that might be found to cure her is reasonable? What's wrong with 600 years? He stuffed himself into one too, after all.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,864 Likes: 3,472
inherit
9886
0
Apr 18, 2024 23:34:31 GMT
3,472
ahglock
2,864
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Jan 23, 2021 2:08:01 GMT
Not only that, what if a cure would be found, in six or seven hundred years? Not only would Alec be dead, but her children as well. Isn't that just so much worse? C’mon, the answer to this isn’t difficult. We already have real-life examples to draw from to determine a solution to this problem. If someone on life support is determined to have little to no chance of recovering from their condition and all options have been explored, it typically ends with simply letting it go and allowing the person to die. Had Ryder survived Habitat-7, and after potentially years of pursuing a cure, determined that there wasn’t any, he’d probably just take his wife out of cryo, and let her pass away and deal with the remains and the consequences. No one’s just going to let her sit in cold storage indefinitely. That’s just not reasonable. The technology doesn't work currently and people are stuffing themselves in freezers based on hope of future cures now. If working cryo existed I'd expect they would keep her in their indefinitely according to the families wishes.
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jrpN7
N3
Pro vobis omne periculum.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 731 Likes: 1,859
inherit
2941
0
1,859
jrpN7
Pro vobis omne periculum.
731
January 2017
jrpn7
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by jrpN7 on Jan 23, 2021 18:59:49 GMT
Stuffing yourself in a freezer for 600 years in hopes for a cure is absurd. For most, everyone they know, care about or love will be dead. Who's to say your finances/ money will be kept and honored? Education. You'd hardly be employable, so good luck even affording the cure. Could wake up diseased, with no money and no job, and no one to care about you. Sounds like a great plan.
The 600 years stasis jump was one of the dumbest ideas from the get go back when Andromeda was announced. I couldn't believe the desperate attempt BioWare was undergoing in order to ignore the mess they made in the MW just so they could make a bigger one in Andromeda. Would've been better if they just skipped Andromeda, fixed ME3 and continued on. But, alas. Buffooneries.
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inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 23, 2021 19:14:31 GMT
Remember when Mark Darrah called Andromeda "deeply flawed" in that Eurogamer interview? Remember when Mark Darrah quit? Just saying.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,864 Likes: 3,472
inherit
9886
0
Apr 18, 2024 23:34:31 GMT
3,472
ahglock
2,864
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Jan 24, 2021 4:51:22 GMT
Stuffing yourself in a freezer for 600 years in hopes for a cure is absurd. For most, everyone they know, care about or love will be dead. Who's to say your finances/ money will be kept and honored? Education. You'd hardly be employable, so good luck even affording the cure. Could wake up diseased, with no money and no job, and no one to care about you. Sounds like a great plan. The 600 years stasis jump was one of the dumbest ideas from the get go back when Andromeda was announced. I couldn't believe the desperate attempt BioWare was undergoing in order to ignore the mess they made in the MW just so they could make a bigger one in Andromeda. Would've been better if they just skipped Andromeda, fixed ME3 and continued on. But, alas. Buffooneries. I'm not disagreeing with the core issues with Andromeda but if I had a incurable illness and I could freeze myself until its cured I'd do it. I lose everyone if I'm dead as well.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1619
0
Apr 19, 2024 10:02:33 GMT
Deleted
0
Apr 19, 2024 10:02:33 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2021 19:32:12 GMT
ME:A will be retconned as an alternate universe, hopefully.
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Sharable Horizon
N3
Lvl 31 Rogue God Emperor
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Posts: 600 Likes: 1,968
inherit
2222
0
1,968
Sharable Horizon
Lvl 31 Rogue God Emperor
600
December 2016
sharablehorizon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Sharable Horizon on Feb 4, 2021 20:15:04 GMT
Cool story bro! Definitely worth necroing a thread over!
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inherit
2754
0
5,958
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,270
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 4, 2021 20:21:39 GMT
Cool story bro! Definitely worth necroing a thread over! Well, Nurgle has shared with us with one of his plagues so what's the harm of throwing in a little bit of necromancy?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1619
0
Apr 19, 2024 10:02:33 GMT
Deleted
0
Apr 19, 2024 10:02:33 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2021 20:31:02 GMT
Cool story bro! Definitely worth necroing a thread over! Fudge, didnt see the date. Sorry folks.
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Hrulj
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 263 Likes: 271
inherit
3276
0
Mar 19, 2023 16:55:53 GMT
271
Hrulj
263
February 2017
hrulj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by Hrulj on Feb 4, 2021 22:20:28 GMT
If Destroy hopefully gets cannonized it's because it literally is the only ending where personal choice, freedom and self development is possible. A world where Shepard controls the reapers and dangles them over everyone's head like a sword of Damocles or literally rapes entire galaxy, species both known and unknown, from reapers themselves to bacteria into a single hivemind-like organism literally leaves no posibilities for any kind of story development. Destroy does kill Geth, it does kill EDI, it does kill Reapers and every other synthetic in the galaxy, but guess what, they can be rebuilt. Or new ones can be beuilt. That's the charm of synthethic organisms, they don't require billions of years of evolution to get to it. I can't wrap my head around these understandings people have here
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