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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 27, 2020 12:23:50 GMT
Under the sea (do do do do!) Under the sea (do do do do) We have been waitin' To start our invadin' Of Thedas, you see...
We laid our eggs in Loghain's brain! That's why he acted so insane!
And we used our tridents To poke all the Titans! That's why they're wakin' And Thedas is quakin'! Flee cause you oughta, You're in hot water! We've got a notion To rise from the ocean And slaughter you with glee, Your homes will soon be Under the sea!
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Post by azarhal on Dec 27, 2020 13:40:10 GMT
We prepare for the day and hold vigil. Do not look for your men; do not mourn them. They have given themselves of their own free will to a higher cause. That kinda sound like Grey Wardens...
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 27, 2020 13:46:43 GMT
We prepare for the day and hold vigil. Do not look for your men; do not mourn them. They have given themselves of their own free will to a higher cause. That kinda sound like Grey Wardens... I mean, it also sounds like the Inquisition... and the Templars... and the Seekers... and the Qunari... and the Chantry... OH MY GOD THEY'RE ALL CONTROLLED BY THE FISH-MEN. DON'T YOU SEE WHAT'S GOING ON? WAKE UP DRUFF-EEPLE! KIRKWALL WAS AN INSIDE JOB! DRAKESTONE CAN'T LEVITATE GRANITE!
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Walkin' shoes walkin' back into BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: legbamel
XBL Gamertag: Legbamel
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Post by legbamel on Dec 27, 2020 16:03:34 GMT
In have to say, with the ominous overtones given the Executors, I read "given of their own free will to a higher cause" more like "brainwashed blood sacrifices" along the lines of the Wardens being slaughtered to summon demons. I assumed they were dead, possibly eaten. Apparently, I think the Executors are vampires with thralls.
I would prefer if the same gods are not coincidentally being worshipped by mysterious strangers from across the sea. It would take away a chunk of their unique back story and replace it with "just like everybody else", particularly if the Old Gods turn out to be Elvhen gods, whether Evenuris or Forgotten Ones. I rather like the idea of a whole slew of semi-divine beings that effed up the world or their worshippers so badly that various factions had to find different ways to imprison them.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 27, 2020 17:08:26 GMT
I rather like the idea of a whole slew of semi-divine beings that effed up the world or their worshippers so badly that various factions had to find different ways to imprison them. If you recall it was the Maker who claimed to have imprisoned the Old Gods, according to the Chant, so if that is true then unless Solas is the Maker who spoke to Andraste, it would seem there must be two different sets of imprisonment going on. Also, it has to be admitted that DG said many years back that the Neromenians originally worshiped the Maker (I believe in his sun aspect), so it would seem they only abandoned him in favour of the Old Gods after they arrived on mainland Thedas. Andraste also seemed to refer to him as the Wellspring of Creation, as opposed to the Maker, in the earliest version of her teaching. So the Executors could be an authentic group of Sun/Wellspring worshipers, as opposed to the Chantry, who are committed to preserving the world from the elves, who were the original usurpers who messed with it on mainland Thedas.
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Post by azarhal on Dec 27, 2020 17:34:02 GMT
In have to say, with the ominous overtones given the Executors, I read "given of their own free will to a higher cause" more like "brainwashed blood sacrifices" along the lines of the Wardens being slaughtered to summon demons. I assumed they were dead, possibly eaten. Apparently, I think the Executors are vampires with thralls. I would prefer if the same gods are not coincidentally being worshipped by mysterious strangers from across the sea. It would take away a chunk of their unique back story and replace it with "just like everybody else", particularly if the Old Gods turn out to be Elvhen gods, whether Evenuris or Forgotten Ones. I rather like the idea of a whole slew of semi-divine beings that effed up the world or their worshippers so badly that various factions had to find different ways to imprison them. Considering how the ancient Elvhen travelled (Crossroad, magical flying, etc), they probably weren't only on the landmass we have the games set in. Distance was less of an issue back then than in the current age. And that's without even starting to think about how the landmass was altered by Solas putting up the Veil or all that stuff about the Titan shaping the earth. Or that every groups aren't native to were the game is set in except maybe the dwarves...
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Post by ClarkKent on Dec 27, 2020 21:24:21 GMT
They are high elves.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 27, 2020 21:35:46 GMT
In have to say, with the ominous overtones given the Executors, I read "given of their own free will to a higher cause" more like "brainwashed blood sacrifices" along the lines of the Wardens being slaughtered to summon demons. I assumed they were dead, possibly eaten. It does seem odd how they disappeared without trace. I don't know how many individuals it would involve but would not some of them have families who would want to know what happened to them? Do not look for them and do not mourn them. Does that mean they aren't dead or simply accept the fact that they did give themselves willingly? If they had simply joined the cause, wouldn't they have turned up at a later date somewhere? Why Inquisition soldiers specifically? Could they have been a sample group taken away for study? Why were they along the Nevarran border specifically? Didn't the original chalk markings involve Nevarra? So it would seem they were specifically interested in something or someone there. They do seem to have been using the trade routes to move around and observe what is going on. The lady who recalled them placing a mark in her ledger was trying to buy a ship in Antiva and the Executor in TN seemed to know details about Crow poisons. Had they previously taken groups of Crows for study and got their information that way? Whatever they are as a race and as an organisation is seems very telling that they are clearly aware of the "Wolf" and he knows about them. They previously held the Inquisition in high esteem and this is probably why their representative was willing to attend Charter's meeting but I wonder if they would still respect an organisation whose meeting was not only infiltrated by the Wolf himself but also resulted in the death of their agent. Charter might be able to hide the fact he was actually there from them but surely not the death of their operative.
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Post by telanadas on Dec 28, 2020 5:44:38 GMT
In have to say, with the ominous overtones given the Executors, I read "given of their own free will to a higher cause" more like "brainwashed blood sacrifices" along the lines of the Wardens being slaughtered to summon demons. Ahh this would be an amazing revelation to me. I would honestly love to find out more about the warden origins because it does seem like there are some mysteriously shady ulterior motives only known by the higher ups. I agree that postnote in their writing does sound very warden-ish. And the warden's motto is In War, Victory. In Peace, Vigilance. In Death, Sacrifice. 🧐 Supposedly elves from arlathan also helped with the blood ritual for the joining. And I have to point out, old warden insignia can be found inside the Solasan temple along with the arishok's vitaar and the Agony dagger used to question people in Velabanchel. Which is odd, because that temple is so old and in the middle of nowhere. The Venatori were desperate to get inside that temple too, so clearly something was of importance in there because it was all part of Corypheus' master plan (which strangely enough, has aligned pretty closely with Solas'). I've always associated the Forbidden oasis with the forgotten ones and the wardens, so to link them both together with the executors would be such an interesting path to go down if the writers are intending it that way. So maybe the executors have had their own dealings of their own in Thedas for a lot longer than we know, albeit under cover.
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Post by necrowaif on Dec 28, 2020 6:31:04 GMT
I would not put too much thought into oddly-placed treasure. Down that way lies madness and despair.
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Post by fluffysmom on Dec 28, 2020 7:55:20 GMT
Referred to as "Voyager" in common parlance, the constellation Peraquialus is commonly depicted as a ship—no ordinary ship, but rather the primitive vessels sailed by ancient peoples such as the Neromenians. The translation from Ancient Tevene is usually "across the sea," and lends credence to the idea that the Neromenians came to Thedas from elsewhere, although most reputable scholars dispute this, especially considering those ancient peoples would likely to have named these stars long before they undertook such a voyage.
—From A Study of Thedosian Astronomy by Sister Oran Petrarchius
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 28, 2020 9:59:03 GMT
So maybe the executors have had their own dealings of their own in Thedas for a lot longer than we know, albeit under cover. The very fact that both the Neromenians and the Qunari came from across the sea to arrive at the same point, thus suggesting they were probably following the same ocean current, plus anyone attempting to go in the opposite direction disappears without trace, does seem significant. Of course we don't know how big in circumference the world of Thedas is but it is equally the possible that the Voshai could also be connected in some way even though they came from the sea on the opposite side of the continent. They were seemingly only interested in acquiring lyrium, suggesting a magical race who used it in large quantities, but had no elves among their crews, suggesting perhaps the elves are seen as their enemies and for a time contact was lost. Tevinter tried sending a trade delegation in the opposite direction and just as with expeditions across the Amaranthine Ocean, the ships never returned. Then the ships of the Voshai started to appear again in recent times with tales of a massive cataclysm on their own land. If "those across the sea" started to take an interest in Thedas again, possibly because their homeland was becoming uninhabitable, they would naturally be concerned if someone was about to do the same to Thedas. Of course we have simply assumed that the Forgotten Ones were another faction of ancient elves. They could have been but they could also have been another race entirely. People have already suggested the Titans but what if they were some other race, either humans or the Scaled Ones, and the conflict with the Evanuris came about because one side or the other had intruded onto the other's territory? (For example the Neromenians arriving on Par Vollen, an event that has now been pushed much further back in history by the timeline in the Keep, bringing it well within the period of the elven empire). Then the Dread Wolf, saw an opportunity to play one side off against the other, as suggested in the Dalish story and also alluded to in Felassan's story of Fen'Harel and the tree. If both sides were magic users, then raising the Veil would have impacted on them all, particularly if his actions also imprisoned both sets of leaders. In which case, if the Executors are the followers of the Forgotten Ones, initially it could have taken them a long time to recover as well. Their civilisation could also have been affected adversely and become fragmented as a result. If they had been around at the time of the Evanuris, they would likely also recognise the signature of elven magic being used, so when Corypheus opened the hole in the sky, they realised it was linked with the old enemies but particularly the one who betrayed them. It would also explain how they seem to know about the "Wolf" and are concerned at what his plans might be. It would also explain how he knows them. Incidentally, if the Neromenians were actually humans trying to escape "those across the sea", then it could explain why they then adopted new deities to assist them against their oppressors.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 28, 2020 12:12:54 GMT
Apparently, I think the Executors are vampires with thralls. Well, that isn't so far fetched when you consider this codex from the Descent: The Scaled Ones had set up a camp at an intersection in the Deep Roads. In the center there was a golden altar fashioned in the shape of fire. A chill swept through me. On the tip of each flame hung the corpses of those we'd lost—including Father and Drohg. They'd been drained of blood, leaving only bone wrapped in grey skin. A robed Scaled One stood before the altar. Its voice was different from the others: softer, almost feminine. It chanted and raised a basin of blood towards the altar. The other Scaled Ones bowed low. The robed Scaled One produced fire from its palm and mouth and ignited the blood.
Othon grabbed my forearm and motioned for us to climb down. We returned to the rest of the company, where he relayed what we had witnessed. We would rest for an hour, regain our strength, and strike.
The memory of Father's sagging, emptied face kept me awake. The hour passed slowly, but it did pass. Othon led us down the path to the overlook. I readied my axe for blood and steeled myself for the sight of the altar. But it wasn't there. The camp, Father and Drohg, the Scaled Ones... all gone. Only the basin remained, charred around the edges.There was no date for the codices connected with the Scaled Ones but they would seem to pre-date the 1st Blight as the dwarves were active throughout the Deep Roads and Cad'Halash was still current which means it also pre-dates the Tevinter war with the elves of Arlathan Forest. So it would seem this is very ancient. So was this just a red herring or another of those breadcrumbs hinting at something more that has been lost to history. Jaws of Hakkon also had a reference to a conflict between Orlais (or tribes of that region) aligned with the Snake People of the Earth and Tevinter in alliance with the Moon Men. Now initially it just seems like some out of world reference to the idea of visitors from outer space because of "ley lines" that can only be seen from the sky, so no real relevance. However, we know that people could fly on griffons and were probably doing so long before the Grey Wardens used them. The griffons are also said to have originated from Seheron, so quite possibly the Vints first started to use them after conquering that island in ancient times. Meanwhile, we now know from the Descent that there were scaled, reptilian looking humanoids in the Deep Roads, so the primitive tribes of what is now Orlais could well have formed an alliance with them by offering them people for sacrifice in return for their aid against the northern invaders. It may have nothing to do with the Executors but it is evidence of another strange race or hybrid that we have yet to encounter.
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Post by telanadas on Dec 28, 2020 14:42:32 GMT
The very fact that both the Neromenians and the Qunari came from across the sea to arrive at the same point, thus suggesting they were probably following the same ocean current, plus anyone attempting to go in the opposite direction disappears without trace, does seem significant. If there is a connection there it could suggest the Neromenians existed well before the veil was created. If they have something to do with the executors it would make sense they are fade of origin. Ship like vessels have been seen in the fade already - I thought they were aravels or even just objects from real life manifesting but I thought it was odd in DAO the ship was next to the strange statues and a shallow body of water like it was stuck there.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Dec 28, 2020 15:04:04 GMT
Apparently, I think the Executors are vampires with thralls. Oddly enough, I suspiciously thought that the glass of red wine the Executor drank in TN was actually blood.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Dec 28, 2020 17:55:31 GMT
And I have to point out, old warden insignia can be found inside the Solasan temple along with the arishok's vitaar and the Agony dagger used to question people in Velabanchel. I would not put too much thought into oddly-placed treasure. Down that way lies madness and despair. Qunari stuff and kinky Crow torture tools in an elven ruin. Nah. That's gameplay.
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 30, 2020 18:58:11 GMT
If the Executors are truly from "across the sea", then surely people would notice them arriving on the shores of Thedas. Even if they didn't rock up to the usual ports or beaches, ships of any decent size to be travelling the ocean on would be visible to passers-by. Unless... they aren't using ships... Because they're swimming... BECAUSE THEY'RE FREAKY FISH-MEN!!! I love this theory. What i found is that the Qunari or Kossith (Qunari ancestors) are from across the sea. So what if the Kossith and the origin Executors are more animal and the Qunari, get there look because of different bloodlines. So if the Executors had no contact with other races, they could look animial like like the kossith so they want to cover there faces.
dwarf opposed to elves Kossith opposed to executors hooded people
I think of the movie waterworld (1995). the catamaran ist great. The movie is worth seeing.
I would love to romance a person with different skin and i am not a fan of dwarf or qunari so it would be another race i could play.
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 30, 2020 19:03:47 GMT
BECAUSE THEY'RE FREAKY FISH-MEN!!! Surely wouldn't that make them from "under the sea" rather than across it? Seriously, though your idea isn't so far fetched, particularly with reference to the "Scaled Ones" and the fact the Ghilan'nain seems to have conducted a number of experiments in her day. If Kossith were the result of a dragon/elven hybrid, then the Scaled Ones could be a Cetus (sea dragon) elven or human hybrid. May be the big serpent goddess is associated with them. Maybe if Kossith are Qunari, the Scaled ones are executors????? And a Freaky fish-men can come from across the sea, if he lives on land and not in water (waterworld).
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 30, 2020 19:11:09 GMT
Apparently, I think the Executors are vampires with thralls. Oddly enough, I suspiciously thought that the glass of red wine the Executor drank in TN was actually blood. That would be cliche and very boring.
I would be happy if they, unlike everyone else in Thedas, are diplomatic and more wise people. Like the elves in the Lord of the Rings. Fight only when necessary.
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Walkin' shoes walkin' back into BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: legbamel
XBL Gamertag: Legbamel
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Post by legbamel on Dec 30, 2020 23:30:52 GMT
They can't be wise and diplomatic vampires? Like the Ancient Elves, their nigh immortality would give them time to do the deep thinking and learning we humans cannot. If they want to survive in the world, they have to learn to work with others, but they need to be secretive because they're still bloodthirsty, literally. People tend to frown on that, for some reason.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 31, 2020 10:04:13 GMT
WARNING: SPOILERS FOR TEVINTER NIGHTS TO FOLLOW:
Okay, I've been re-reading the Horror of Hormack and a few things started to nudge something in my memory about some things we know about the Executors, which makes me wonder again if there is some connection between the Evanuris and the Executors:
In HoH: The smell that emanates from the pools, that seems to attach to the creatures it creates. "It smelled like the sea on a stagnant day, the smell of brine and seaweed." The text then goes on to point out how the sea is many leagues away from that locations, which makes its presence menacing. There is also another scent mixed in with it: "decaying foliage, sickly sweet and pungent".
In DWTY: The executor is described as having "the faint whiff of the ocean from his robes and something beyond the ocean." Now whilst this person is said to represent "those across the sea", this meeting is not taking place in a coastal location but in Hunter's Fell, many leagues inland and several days, possibly weeks, would have to have been spent travelling to it from wherever the Executor arrived by ship. Not to mention their agents have been around keeping a watch on Thedas for at least 3 years prior to the meeting and possibly far longer. So if this agent is not newly arrived by ship, why do their clothes still hold this distinctive smell to them?
Second: The events in HoH are set in Nevarra. The above ground location is a forest bordering a mountain range. This could be anywhere in Nevarra but specifically possibly in the western side, the territory captured from Orlais and thus the northern edge of the Tirashan forest. Regardless it is specifically said to be a forest in Nevarra.
In DAI War Table mission, the outposts from which Cullen's soldiers are said to have disappeared were all along the border with Nevarra. If this is the border between Nevarra and Orlais rather than Tevinter, this possibly points to a similar area to the Nevarran forest in HoH. The Executors do seem to have been particularly active in Nevarra and northern Orlais at the time of the Inquisition. What were they doing there?
In HoH: The symbols in the great hall "seemed to shift, changing in an inexplicable way that made Ramesh's eyes water". They are twisting shapes like halla horns In DWTY: The Executor's robes were "trimmed in a pattern Charter had never seen, twisting shapes that curled to points in places that made her eyes hurt".
So are these similarities mere coincidence? Did the two different authors simply write these descriptions with no reference to one another or where the plot is taking us?
Further thoughts. Why do the pools smell of the sea? Is there any connection with Maryden's song where Arlathan is said to have fallen beneath the sea? Why are there so many shots featuring coastal locations and sea monsters in the concept art?
Jovis says: "She cannot have it. Not again. Locked for a reason". When Ramesh asks the perfectly reasonable question: "Who can't have it?" Jovis mocks him saying it is the wrong question. So what is the right question? Perhaps it should be "Who unlocked it?"
I suppose one answer might be it was another side effect of the breach in the sky. Either that broke the lock or awakened a titan momentarily and the movement of the earth broke it. However, what if it was neither of these but someone else deliberately broke in? I cannot believe that was either dwarven miners or the Grey Wardens because it had clearly been locked away for a very long time, even probably during the time when the Deep Roads were open and being travelled freely, so if anything the presence of the darkspawn had kept them from being accessed.
Yet in the last few years someone has clearly unlocked them. Deformed monsters were clearly starting to escape because of the one that appears in the Next One, which would appear to have taken place before Evka became a Grey Warden and therefore earlier in time than HoH. Of course, the Warden in that story died and Evka would not have been aware this wasn't a regular monster so it probably didn't alert the Wardens anything odd was happening in the Deep Roads. Now Ramesh has told them, it would seem something that does need investigating and will be something we get involved in.
I am deeply suspicious of the Executors though, particularly as Solas describes them as dangerous. If they have the key to these pools, they are very dangerous.
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 31, 2020 10:07:45 GMT
They can't be wise and diplomatic vampires? Like the Ancient Elves, their nigh immortality would give them time to do the deep thinking and learning we humans cannot. If they want to survive in the world, they have to learn to work with others, but they need to be secretive because they're still bloodthirsty, literally. People tend to frown on that, for some reason. Only if they are different from any vampires i have read and see in movies!!!!! I want somethink different like qunari are different from what i have see (but sadly not my styl) If you want vampires then let me think. 1. pale is okay, but there musst be somethink different (but it has to be realistic, no shiny skin). 2. vegetarian vampires are quit interessting. 3. Don't let them look evil. maybe they are called vampires just because of a certain trait and i don't mean the teeth.
What i don't like about them: 1. the teeth, bad for romance in my option. 2. the majority are portrayed as the evil that cannot change. 3. garlic, wooden stake and coffin makeing no sense and are boring as hell.
Moonlight series can be a ground to build up. with somethink different than the teeth (sorry a different skin or something like elven ears or Qunari horns would be cool).
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 31, 2020 10:45:38 GMT
1. pale is okay, but there musst be somethink different (but it has to be realistic, no shiny skin). I would mention here that in the plot given in the Core Rule Book that includes Kal-Sharok dwarves they are said to be much paler and shorter then the Orzammar dwarves. People have speculated as to how the dwarves survived their isolation. Some have suggested red lyrium but in the Core Rule Book they are said to be absolutely opposed to the Blight and if Bianca could work out red lyrium was infected with it, I think the dwarves of Kal-Sharok could too. Also, red lyrium doesn't specifically make you paler or shorter. In fact red lyrium seems to do the opposite and enhance the size of the individual. So what if the dwarves of Kal-Sharok are now vampire dwarves? They have stayed alive not by drinking darkspawn blood but just blood? Or possibly through drinking dragon blood? This would give them a degree of resistance to the Blight and the attributes of a Reaver. It might also alter their physiology over time, although I don't know why that should make them paler.
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Post by MrGDL87 on Dec 31, 2020 12:20:59 GMT
I find the executors really interesting, so I thought I would chip in with my own theory. I think that the executors are literally based across the sea and they were the ones originally responsible for making the Neromenians and Quanari flee their place of origin. This would beg the question on why would these groups flee in the first place? I have a theory (I know it might be farfetched ) that the executors worship a god of death or believe in the cycle of death. So to appease their god, the executors may be okay with sacrifices and blood magic. The Neromenians/Qunari opposed this and were forced out. I get the feeling that the executors are the puppeteers and they have a lot of influence behind closed doors. They have brainwashed agents around Thedas on standby and could possibly reach/influence anyone at any time. I think the executors were happy with the state of the world before Solas interfered because the cycle of death continued as normal (so the executors had no reason to act). The executors could be unhappy with Solas's plan because he plans to tear down the veil. This would cause chaos initially but later the elves could become immortal and shift the balance in the cycle of death. The executors also have a passing reference in Varric's "Hard In Hardtown". It's suggested that the executors may have had a hand in killing an Antivan Queen (I can't remember her name). Now I know this isn't the most accurate source because it's fiction and Varric does tend to be imaginative but what if there is a grain of truth behind this rumour. If it is true and the executors did have a hand in the Queen's death, this shows that the executors could get to anyone in Thedas. There is another Codex entry about this Queen's death where it mentions the guard in charge of the investigation interrogated the crows. The crows didn't mention who was responsible but what if they weren't crows but there were executor agents disguised as crows to erase any suspicion? Anyway I think I'll leave it there because I'm starting to come across as a conspiracy theory nutjob . My theory may be influenced by the fact that I've watched Game Of Thrones recently and I'm getting the faceless man vibes from the executors. It will be interesting how the executors are mentioned in the future but there's also a part of me that doesn't want them to reveal too much because the mystery is what makes the executors interesting,
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 31, 2020 13:38:41 GMT
The crows didn't mention who was responsible but what if they weren't crows but there were executor agents disguised as crows to erase any suspicion? I think the Crows didn't reveal anything because they are trained to resist torture and wasn't this when several of them died under torture? However, the Executor did show some knowledge of Crow poisons so if nothing else they have made a study of them in order to ascertain if they might be a threat to "those across the sea". The Executor also queried the absence of the Ben'Hassrath at the meeting saying: " Do the Qunari fear to speak with us?" That suggests that the Executors believe the Qunari might have reason to fear them, which ties in with the idea they could have been the reason the Qunari came to Thedas in the first place. It would be helpful to know what the Qunari know or feel about the Executors.
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