jadebaby88
N2
Official BSN Originale - Still searching for a better ending to ME3
Posts: 189 Likes: 230
inherit
11462
0
Apr 25, 2022 23:52:55 GMT
230
jadebaby88
Official BSN Originale - Still searching for a better ending to ME3
189
April 2020
jadebaby88
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jan 18, 2021 23:47:55 GMT
For so long I have been a hopeful BioWare and ME fan, through all the critically praised (DAO, KOTOR) and the critically condemned (DA2, ME3, Anthem). However, despite my initial feeling of giddy excitement (like a 12 year old school girl) about the prospect of returning to the Milky Way galaxy to "fix" the state of the original Mass Effect setting after the Mac Walters and Casey Hudson "burn the franchise and run" ending. I am now instead filled with dread.
Although for me, taking the ending at face value, it was the worst ending to a movie or game I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing. And any idea that entertains the possibility of returning to the setting to continue the story excites me tremendously. I also fear that this will be a "force awakens trilogy" re-imagining, a more light-hearted and fun story to usher in a new demographic of Mass Effect fans, overcoming the enemy with a "safe" narrative that doesn't take risks, the absence of mostly or all adult sci-fi tropes and worst of all, the abolishment of lore in favour of "rule-of-cool".
I fear our once great relatively in-depth talky & techy sci-fi space opera is going to turn into a Disney movie where nothing is sacred if it prevents things from being fun or cool.
I am so scared that instead of being able to say "I love Mass Effect again" we will be left saying "I loved the old Mass Effect's, when they were good".
Do you guys feel the same? And more importantly, which is worse? Opening up the Mass Effect franchise to continue in the Milky Way galaxy at the risk of it being a Star Wars reboot, or having it never happen at all and leaving things where they lie?
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Little Bengel
N3
Partying like it's 1999
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 948 Likes: 2,611
inherit
3354
0
Apr 19, 2024 23:57:07 GMT
2,611
Little Bengel
Partying like it's 1999
948
February 2017
geminifreak
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Little Bengel on Jan 19, 2021 0:23:38 GMT
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Scribbles
185
0
Apr 19, 2024 15:24:55 GMT
30,241
Hanako Ikezawa
22,352
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 19, 2021 0:40:50 GMT
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0
Apr 19, 2024 23:14:15 GMT
3,996
Blast Processor
"Why are you telling me this? I can read and draw my own conclusions." - Roach
1,439
August 2016
slotts
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Post by Blast Processor on Jan 19, 2021 8:35:33 GMT
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Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 19, 2021 8:37:18 GMT
Now we just need Sheploo canonized, and he’s a grizzled old hermit living in the forest of Sur’kesh eating salarian eggs like a savage hobo.
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The homeostatic problem-solving structure
8860
0
Apr 26, 2022 11:22:31 GMT
8,511
Unicephalon 40-D
An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
4,796
Jun 29, 2017 12:57:11 GMT
June 2017
legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jan 19, 2021 9:30:43 GMT
Drinking green alien tittie milk?
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inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 19, 2021 9:38:49 GMT
Drinking green alien tittie milk? Suckling a yagh that escaped from STG. “According to our scientists, the yagh has mistaken Shepard for one of its offspring.” ”He really seems to be enjoying it.” ”..........Yes..let’s....let’s go.”
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 6,650
inherit
Agent 46
177
0
6,650
Gileadan
Clearance Level Ultra
2,671
August 2016
gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Jan 19, 2021 11:49:05 GMT
And then, hopefully someone will make an episodic game about a masked Turian bounty hunter or some such.
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midnightwolf
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: BlackSassyWolf
XBL Gamertag: BlackSassyWolf
Posts: 947 Likes: 1,231
inherit
2174
0
1,231
midnightwolf
947
November 2016
midnightwolf
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
BlackSassyWolf
BlackSassyWolf
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Post by midnightwolf on Jan 19, 2021 20:16:19 GMT
For so long I have been a hopeful BioWare and ME fan, through all the critically praised (DAO, KOTOR) and the critically condemned (DA2, ME3, Anthem). However, despite my initial feeling of giddy excitement (like a 12 year old school girl) about the prospect of returning to the Milky Way galaxy to "fix" the state of the original Mass Effect setting after the Mac Walters and Casey Hudson "burn the franchise and run" ending. I am now instead filled with dread. Although for me, taking the ending at face value, it was the worst ending to a movie or game I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing. And any idea that entertains the possibility of returning to the setting to continue the story excites me tremendously. I also fear that this will be a "force awakens trilogy" re-imagining, a more light-hearted and fun story to usher in a new demographic of Mass Effect fans, overcoming the enemy with a "safe" narrative that doesn't take risks, the absence of mostly or all adult sci-fi tropes and worst of all, the abolishment of lore in favour of "rule-of-cool". I fear our once great relatively in-depth talky & techy sci-fi space opera is going to turn into a Disney movie where nothing is sacred if it prevents things from being fun or cool. I am so scared that instead of being able to say "I love Mass Effect again" we will be left saying "I loved the old Mass Effect's, when they were good".
Do you guys feel the same? And more importantly, which is worse? Opening up the Mass Effect franchise to continue in the Milky Way galaxy, That's nostalgia for you. But I've got to ask; WHEN was ME3 good? It has the weakest Crew (although I LOVE James). Weakest story. It's filled with meaningless fetch quests which I'm led to believe RPG fans hate. They even managed to ruin Shepard by deciding how He/She would react to certain things, such as the Asari being wiped out due to their own incompetence and elitist attitude. After enduring all of that, I doubt ME could get any worse.
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The Smiling Knight
538
0
21,879
smilesja
13,720
August 2016
smilesja
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Post by smilesja on Jan 19, 2021 20:36:30 GMT
Drinking green alien tittie milk?
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Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 19, 2021 20:43:18 GMT
For so long I have been a hopeful BioWare and ME fan, through all the critically praised (DAO, KOTOR) and the critically condemned (DA2, ME3, Anthem). However, despite my initial feeling of giddy excitement (like a 12 year old school girl) about the prospect of returning to the Milky Way galaxy to "fix" the state of the original Mass Effect setting after the Mac Walters and Casey Hudson "burn the franchise and run" ending. I am now instead filled with dread. Although for me, taking the ending at face value, it was the worst ending to a movie or game I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing. And any idea that entertains the possibility of returning to the setting to continue the story excites me tremendously. I also fear that this will be a "force awakens trilogy" re-imagining, a more light-hearted and fun story to usher in a new demographic of Mass Effect fans, overcoming the enemy with a "safe" narrative that doesn't take risks, the absence of mostly or all adult sci-fi tropes and worst of all, the abolishment of lore in favour of "rule-of-cool". I fear our once great relatively in-depth talky & techy sci-fi space opera is going to turn into a Disney movie where nothing is sacred if it prevents things from being fun or cool. I am so scared that instead of being able to say "I love Mass Effect again" we will be left saying "I loved the old Mass Effect's, when they were good".
Do you guys feel the same? And more importantly, which is worse? Opening up the Mass Effect franchise to continue in the Milky Way galaxy, That's nostalgia for you. But I've got to ask; WHEN was ME3 good? It has the weakest Crew (although I LOVE James). Weakest story. It's filled with meaningless fetch quests which I'm led to believe RPG fans hate. They even managed to ruin Shepard by deciding how He/She would react to certain things, such as the Asari being wiped out due to their own incompetence and elitist attitude. After enduring all of that, I doubt ME could get any worse. I actually think ME3 has the best overall mission and story structure of the 3 games, and I’m glad that it does away entirely with pointless vehicle traversal that provides little reward and nothing but padding between landing and doing the actual missions. But the autodialogue. Revisiting this game recently, the autodialogue has aged extremely poorly, particularly in the prologue, where you feel like you’re sitting there for a good few minutes without ever getting to select what Shepard says, and that’s on top of the cockamamie PTSD dream stuff that hijacks the character rather than feeling like a natural progression of your character’s development in the story. For all the memes, the issues with development and other issues in the end, I felt Andromeda is kind of like a breath of fresh air in comparison.
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inherit
The homeostatic problem-solving structure
8860
0
Apr 26, 2022 11:22:31 GMT
8,511
Unicephalon 40-D
An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
4,796
Jun 29, 2017 12:57:11 GMT
June 2017
legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jan 19, 2021 20:50:03 GMT
Drinking green alien tittie milk? ok ok enough
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midnightwolf
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: BlackSassyWolf
XBL Gamertag: BlackSassyWolf
Posts: 947 Likes: 1,231
inherit
2174
0
1,231
midnightwolf
947
November 2016
midnightwolf
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
BlackSassyWolf
BlackSassyWolf
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Post by midnightwolf on Jan 19, 2021 20:57:28 GMT
That's nostalgia for you. But I've got to ask; WHEN was ME3 good? It has the weakest Crew (although I LOVE James). Weakest story. It's filled with meaningless fetch quests which I'm led to believe RPG fans hate. They even managed to ruin Shepard by deciding how He/She would react to certain things, such as the Asari being wiped out due to their own incompetence and elitist attitude. After enduring all of that, I doubt ME could get any worse. I actually think ME3 has the best overall mission and story structure of the 3 games, and I’m glad that it does away entirely with pointless vehicle traversal that provides little reward and nothing but padding between landing and doing the actual missions. But the autodialogue. Revisiting this game recently, the autodialogue has aged extremely poorly, particularly in the prologue, where you feel like you’re sitting there for a good few minutes without ever getting to select what Shepard says, and that’s on top of the cockamamie PTSD dream stuff that hijacks the character rather than feeling like a natural progression of your character’s development in the story. For all the memes, the issues with development and other issues in the end, I felt Andromeda is kind of like a breath of fresh air in comparison. Oh don't let my comment fool you. I LOVE ME3, it has some really enjoyable moments, and the gameplay is the best in the Trilogy. I simply enjoy questioning people on their stance that it's one of "The best RPG'S EVER" and that Bioware "Can't do better" Those are pretty bold statements. FYI. I played MEA on Xbone when it came out and found it just as fun and enjoyable as the Trilogy. And just a couple of days ago I decided to get on PC, and I feel exactly same.
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jadebaby88
N2
Official BSN Originale - Still searching for a better ending to ME3
Posts: 189 Likes: 230
inherit
11462
0
Apr 25, 2022 23:52:55 GMT
230
jadebaby88
Official BSN Originale - Still searching for a better ending to ME3
189
April 2020
jadebaby88
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jan 19, 2021 23:25:45 GMT
Drinking green alien tittie milk? Suckling a yagh that escaped from STG. “According to our scientists, the yagh has mistaken Shepard for one of its offspring.” ”He really seems to be enjoying it.” ”..........Yes..let’s....let’s go.” Don't take him away from his habitat, he might explode into a volatile rage.
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jadebaby88
N2
Official BSN Originale - Still searching for a better ending to ME3
Posts: 189 Likes: 230
inherit
11462
0
Apr 25, 2022 23:52:55 GMT
230
jadebaby88
Official BSN Originale - Still searching for a better ending to ME3
189
April 2020
jadebaby88
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jan 19, 2021 23:27:56 GMT
For so long I have been a hopeful BioWare and ME fan, through all the critically praised (DAO, KOTOR) and the critically condemned (DA2, ME3, Anthem). However, despite my initial feeling of giddy excitement (like a 12 year old school girl) about the prospect of returning to the Milky Way galaxy to "fix" the state of the original Mass Effect setting after the Mac Walters and Casey Hudson "burn the franchise and run" ending. I am now instead filled with dread. Although for me, taking the ending at face value, it was the worst ending to a movie or game I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing. And any idea that entertains the possibility of returning to the setting to continue the story excites me tremendously. I also fear that this will be a "force awakens trilogy" re-imagining, a more light-hearted and fun story to usher in a new demographic of Mass Effect fans, overcoming the enemy with a "safe" narrative that doesn't take risks, the absence of mostly or all adult sci-fi tropes and worst of all, the abolishment of lore in favour of "rule-of-cool". I fear our once great relatively in-depth talky & techy sci-fi space opera is going to turn into a Disney movie where nothing is sacred if it prevents things from being fun or cool. I am so scared that instead of being able to say "I love Mass Effect again" we will be left saying "I loved the old Mass Effect's, when they were good".
Do you guys feel the same? And more importantly, which is worse? Opening up the Mass Effect franchise to continue in the Milky Way galaxy, That's nostalgia for you. But I've got to ask; WHEN was ME3 good? It has the weakest Crew (although I LOVE James). Weakest story. It's filled with meaningless fetch quests which I'm led to believe RPG fans hate. They even managed to ruin Shepard by deciding how He/She would react to certain things, such as the Asari being wiped out due to their own incompetence and elitist attitude. After enduring all of that, I doubt ME could get any worse. I was referring more to just the original ME trilogy. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure ME3 was the most disliked of the three, even four if you include Andromeda.
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1047
0
Apr 19, 2024 20:34:04 GMT
1,396
ClarkKent
882
Aug 17, 2016 20:27:17 GMT
August 2016
clarkkent
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Post by ClarkKent on Jan 19, 2021 23:32:15 GMT
For so long I have been a hopeful BioWare and ME fan, through all the critically praised (DAO, KOTOR) and the critically condemned (DA2, ME3, Anthem). However, despite my initial feeling of giddy excitement (like a 12 year old school girl) about the prospect of returning to the Milky Way galaxy to "fix" the state of the original Mass Effect setting after the Mac Walters and Casey Hudson "burn the franchise and run" ending. I am now instead filled with dread. Although for me, taking the ending at face value, it was the worst ending to a movie or game I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing. And any idea that entertains the possibility of returning to the setting to continue the story excites me tremendously. I also fear that this will be a "force awakens trilogy" re-imagining, a more light-hearted and fun story to usher in a new demographic of Mass Effect fans, overcoming the enemy with a "safe" narrative that doesn't take risks, the absence of mostly or all adult sci-fi tropes and worst of all, the abolishment of lore in favour of "rule-of-cool". I fear our once great relatively in-depth talky & techy sci-fi space opera is going to turn into a Disney movie where nothing is sacred if it prevents things from being fun or cool. I am so scared that instead of being able to say "I love Mass Effect again" we will be left saying "I loved the old Mass Effect's, when they were good".
Do you guys feel the same? And more importantly, which is worse? Opening up the Mass Effect franchise to continue in the Milky Way galaxy, That's nostalgia for you. But I've got to ask; WHEN was ME3 good? It has the weakest Crew (although I LOVE James). Weakest story. It's filled with meaningless fetch quests which I'm led to believe RPG fans hate. They even managed to ruin Shepard by deciding how He/She would react to certain things, such as the Asari being wiped out due to their own incompetence and elitist attitude. After enduring all of that, I doubt ME could get any worse.
Well, it did.
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midnightwolf
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: BlackSassyWolf
XBL Gamertag: BlackSassyWolf
Posts: 947 Likes: 1,231
inherit
2174
0
1,231
midnightwolf
947
November 2016
midnightwolf
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
BlackSassyWolf
BlackSassyWolf
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Post by midnightwolf on Jan 20, 2021 1:13:59 GMT
That's nostalgia for you. But I've got to ask; WHEN was ME3 good? It has the weakest Crew (although I LOVE James). Weakest story. It's filled with meaningless fetch quests which I'm led to believe RPG fans hate. They even managed to ruin Shepard by deciding how He/She would react to certain things, such as the Asari being wiped out due to their own incompetence and elitist attitude. After enduring all of that, I doubt ME could get any worse. I was referring more to just the original ME trilogy. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure ME3 was the most disliked of the three, even four if you include Andromeda. I understand that. But since ME3 takes up one third of ME, we should include here.
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Radec
N3
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,317
inherit
10019
0
1,317
Radec
614
Mar 23, 2018 18:30:38 GMT
March 2018
radec
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Post by Radec on Jan 20, 2021 1:16:26 GMT
If ME3 ending and MEA launch didnt totally kill off interest in the franchise, nothing will.
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midnightwolf
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: BlackSassyWolf
XBL Gamertag: BlackSassyWolf
Posts: 947 Likes: 1,231
inherit
2174
0
1,231
midnightwolf
947
November 2016
midnightwolf
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
BlackSassyWolf
BlackSassyWolf
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Post by midnightwolf on Jan 20, 2021 1:17:09 GMT
That's nostalgia for you. But I've got to ask; WHEN was ME3 good? It has the weakest Crew (although I LOVE James). Weakest story. It's filled with meaningless fetch quests which I'm led to believe RPG fans hate. They even managed to ruin Shepard by deciding how He/She would react to certain things, such as the Asari being wiped out due to their own incompetence and elitist attitude. After enduring all of that, I doubt ME could get any worse.
Well, it did. If we're talking MEA here, I got to disagree. Though I'd love to know your thoughts.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
inherit
At sunrise there is the sunset.
2139
0
5,079
Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
5,220
November 2016
thelastvanguardian
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jan 20, 2021 6:47:34 GMT
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inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 21, 2021 15:54:23 GMT
If ME3 ending and MEA launch didnt totally kill off interest in the franchise, nothing will. Killing off hope will. And if ME5 turns out to be another product the people won't want to begin with, that will kill it. People really hope that ME5 will be closer than they think, but 2025 is the unlikely earliest we can expect it. Not to mention, waiting till 2025 for a product you won't care for, only to wait till 2035 for the next installment to, hopefully, be more to your liking.
This is literally ME's final leg. And it's not looking good.
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1909
0
Apr 12, 2024 10:24:43 GMT
2,366
10k
Cerberus is Humanity! Join us today and receive a limited edition commemorative pin!
1,131
November 2016
10k
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
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Post by 10k on Jan 22, 2021 2:53:54 GMT
I'm just excited for the remaster. The next game will be trash like Andromeda, and they're obviously using Shepard's likeness to get the hype going. You should see the comments under the "ME4" trailer reveal. Everyone wants Shepard back. Personally, I think they need to leave Shepard alone, and continue with the Ryder twins in la la land Andromeda.
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1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jan 22, 2021 3:10:30 GMT
This feels like an over exaggeration.
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inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,068
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 22, 2021 8:45:16 GMT
Mass Effect never took any "risks" and was never "adult".
Please, please, read a book. How is it that so many people here claim to love Science Fiction when they've clearly never even looked at anything besides this one mediocre trilogy?
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Radec
N3
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,317
inherit
10019
0
1,317
Radec
614
Mar 23, 2018 18:30:38 GMT
March 2018
radec
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Post by Radec on Jan 22, 2021 14:47:19 GMT
If ME3 ending and MEA launch didnt totally kill off interest in the franchise, nothing will. Killing off hope will. And if ME5 turns out to be another product the people won't want to begin with, that will kill it. People really hope that ME5 will be closer than they think, but 2025 is the unlikely earliest we can expect it. Not to mention, waiting till 2025 for a product you won't care for, only to wait till 2035 for the next installment to, hopefully, be more to your liking.
This is literally ME's final leg. And it's not looking good.
Yeah, if they keep missing it's probably not a good thing in terms of bringing in new fans. Still, the MET is classic. It'll always have that fanbase (until we die off anyway). Judging just by the trailer views/likes ratio and general response, it seems that the IP still has some good will that could be exploited by good writers (not saying that's the current BW staff). Not the same scale, but it's a bit like Star Wars. It has survived on basically 2 good movies and 1 okay one for about 40 years. Everything else has been the equivalent of MEA (or worse). People keep giving it chances, though, just because those originals were classics.
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