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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 22, 2021 15:47:46 GMT
Still, the MET is classic. It'll always have that fanbase (until we die off anyway). Judging just by the trailer views/likes ratio and general response, it seems that the IP still has some good will that could be exploited by good writers (not saying that's the current BW staff). That's Star Trek's situation, whose fanbase age average is over 40 years old. We are an aging fanbase, which is not gaining any new blood. At least, what new blood we are getting, is not equivalent to the old blood lost, due to the misuse of the IP (see JarJarTrek and KurtzmanTrek). Still, the MET is classic. It'll always have that fanbase (until we die off anyway). Judging just by the trailer views/likes ratio and general response, it seems that the IP still has some good will that could be exploited by good writers (not saying that's the current BW staff). They could, if they wanted to and that would attract new fans, as well. At least it would drive up curiosity. Do you think people who haven't played the trilogy will know who this Liara person in the new game is? Or people who didn't touch Andromeda, but played the remaster, will know who this Ryder bozo is? Or people who played Andromeda and didn't like it, will give Ryder another go just because? Bioware is going along, like nothing is wrong, when everything is fucking wrong. I don't understand how you can be so blind and detached from the fanbase's pulse. What remaining fanbase you still have, anyway. Not the same scale, but it's a bit like Star Wars. It has survived on basically 2 good movies and 1 okay one for about 40 years. Everything else has been the equivalent of MEA (or worse). People keep giving it chances, though, just because those originals were classics. Not true. Star Wars had far more good content than ME. The EU had some great stories, like Heir to the Empire, Dark Forces, Jedi Knight, Dark Empire and even the prequels, though flawed in execution, weren't that bad and "Revenge of the Sith" is considered one of the "good" Star Wars movies. RotS, in general, is highly ranked in fan appreciation, oftentimes coming above RotJ. There has been side content for SW to keep it alive and good content at that. The same can't be said of ME whose side content are some terrible comic books, with horrible art and even worse script/dialogues, while the books are ... there's two mediocre ones, including the one that introduced everyone's favourite tryhard space ninja, Kai Leng, everything else was garbage with one excuse to include N.K. Jemisin's Quarian humiliation/exhibitionism fetish. Star Wars has had far better content to carry it, than Mass Effect. Halo has had a more Star Wars like course, with mostly mediocre releases after 3, with a few good ones here and there, till it came to its own TLJ moment with, which one was it, Guardians? ME cut through the chase by having its TLJ moment with ME3 and Andromeda basically being tRoS. And I don't see ME5 being the "Mandalorian" moment of ME. Well, I guess the teaser was that, which foolled everyone into thinking Shep and co. would be back, but that's going to collapse the moment the truth comes out. That's going to be fun to watch.
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Fortifying everything.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 22, 2021 17:25:08 GMT
Meh. What else is new.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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5,079
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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thelastvanguardian
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jan 24, 2021 6:01:38 GMT
Well... There is a new American President... A new weekend has started... Last year for NBC Sports channel... Discovery Channel network has new streaming service -that finally works...
But I digress this isn't what you mean.
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Party like it's 2023!
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 24, 2021 17:03:21 GMT
Still, the MET is classic. It'll always have that fanbase (until we die off anyway). Judging just by the trailer views/likes ratio and general response, it seems that the IP still has some good will that could be exploited by good writers (not saying that's the current BW staff). That's Star Trek's situation, whose fanbase age average is over 40 years old. We are an aging fanbase, which is not gaining any new blood. At least, what new blood we are getting, is not equivalent to the old blood lost, due to the misuse of the IP (see JarJarTrek and KurtzmanTrek). Still, the MET is classic. It'll always have that fanbase (until we die off anyway). Judging just by the trailer views/likes ratio and general response, it seems that the IP still has some good will that could be exploited by good writers (not saying that's the current BW staff). They could, if they wanted to and that would attract new fans, as well. At least it would drive up curiosity. Do you think people who haven't played the trilogy will know who this Liara person in the new game is? Or people who didn't touch Andromeda, but played the remaster, will know who this Ryder bozo is? Or people who played Andromeda and didn't like it, will give Ryder another go just because? Bioware is going along, like nothing is wrong, when everything is fucking wrong. I don't understand how you can be so blind and detached from the fanbase's pulse. What remaining fanbase you still have, anyway. Not the same scale, but it's a bit like Star Wars. It has survived on basically 2 good movies and 1 okay one for about 40 years. Everything else has been the equivalent of MEA (or worse). People keep giving it chances, though, just because those originals were classics. Not true. Star Wars had far more good content than ME. The EU had some great stories, like Heir to the Empire, Dark Forces, Jedi Knight, Dark Empire and even the prequels, though flawed in execution, weren't that bad and "Revenge of the Sith" is considered one of the "good" Star Wars movies. RotS, in general, is highly ranked in fan appreciation, oftentimes coming above RotJ. There has been side content for SW to keep it alive and good content at that. The same can't be said of ME whose side content are some terrible comic books, with horrible art and even worse script/dialogues, while the books are ... there's two mediocre ones, including the one that introduced everyone's favourite tryhard space ninja, Kai Leng, everything else was garbage with one excuse to include N.K. Jemisin's Quarian humiliation/exhibitionism fetish. Star Wars has had far better content to carry it, than Mass Effect. Halo has had a more Star Wars like course, with mostly mediocre releases after 3, with a few good ones here and there, till it came to its own TLJ moment with, which one was it, Guardians? ME cut through the chase by having its TLJ moment with ME3 and Andromeda basically being tRoS. And I don't see ME5 being the "Mandalorian" moment of ME. Well, I guess the teaser was that, which foolled everyone into thinking Shep and co. would be back, but that's going to collapse the moment the truth comes out. That's going to be fun to watch. In terms of branding and influence, the power disparity between Star Wars and Mass Effect is practically immeasurable, that’s for sure. The former’s had so much time to grow, and really, movies and books tend to have more lasting appeal in pop media in general. I’d say it’s the sheer power of that brand and its influence on film and TV in general that’s protected it from some of the worst bits of content to be released under its umbrella. If this upcoming Mass Effect game fails, that would likely spell a final death to the franchise, whereas Disney and Lucasfilm could shit out more dreck for years and somehow it would survive in some form or another. Of course, in the end, I can’t say that it really makes it particularly better as a source of entertainment when it feels like it’s just living its twilight years in relative mediocrity. It’ll be interesting to see what we learn in the coming months, provided we learn anything at all this year, but I admit I’ll greatly enjoy seeing the reactions if it turns out Shepard and the old crew are not the returning central cast, though for different reasons. I’ll enjoy the dogpiling and confirmation bias taking hold, and of course the joy of being right in my prediction. Obviously it’ll be an added bonus if the game is actually turns out to be good. If not, I can sit back and enjoy the collective suffering of the community while it collapses and seeks shelter in Dragon Age, readying to eat each other there as well.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 24, 2021 17:28:59 GMT
It’ll be interesting to see what we learn in the coming months, provided we learn anything at all this year, but I admit I’ll greatly enjoy seeing the reactions if it turns out Shepard and the old crew are not the returning central cast, though for different reasons. I’ll enjoy the dogpiling and confirmation bias taking hold, and of course the joy of being right in my prediction. Obviously it’ll be an added bonus if the game is actually turns out to be good. If not, I can sit back and enjoy the collective suffering of the community while it collapses and seeks shelter in Dragon Age, readying to eat each other there as well. We know Shepard won't be returning. Ryder will be a really tough sell, if he should return and a new protagonist ... I don't see that having any appeal to anyone. I mean, there is no hook in that. I think Dragon Age has even less of a future. DA4 may sell as a bargain bin title, but I don't think anyone trusts Bioware to make a good RPG and they never made the gameplay particularly good and engaging for the franchise to merit any larger audience. Couple that with the mediocre character designs and middling writing that it is guaranteed to offer and I don't think there'll be much of a DA community to seek refuge in. I saw dedicated DA communities die off after Inquisition released, in less than a years' time and similarly for ME, after ME:A, just a few months longer. These franchises will not make a comeback, the way Bioware is handling them, or how Bioware seems to be handling itself.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 24, 2021 17:56:37 GMT
It’ll be interesting to see what we learn in the coming months, provided we learn anything at all this year, but I admit I’ll greatly enjoy seeing the reactions if it turns out Shepard and the old crew are not the returning central cast, though for different reasons. I’ll enjoy the dogpiling and confirmation bias taking hold, and of course the joy of being right in my prediction. Obviously it’ll be an added bonus if the game is actually turns out to be good. If not, I can sit back and enjoy the collective suffering of the community while it collapses and seeks shelter in Dragon Age, readying to eat each other there as well. We know Shepard won't be returning. Ryder will be a really tough sell, if he should return and a new protagonist ... I don't see that having any appeal to anyone. I mean, there is no hook in that. I think Dragon Age has even less of a future. DA4 may sell as a bargain bin title, but I don't think anyone trusts Bioware to make a good RPG and they never made the gameplay particularly good and engaging for the franchise to merit any larger audience. Couple that with the mediocre character designs and middling writing that it is guaranteed to offer and I don't think there'll be much of a DA community to seek refuge in. I saw dedicated DA communities die off after Inquisition released, in less than a years' time and similarly for ME, after ME:A, just a few months longer. These franchises will not make a comeback, the way Bioware is handling them, or how Bioware seems to be handling itself. To say a new protagonist has no appeal to anyone is pretty presumptuous. Typically, anyone who actually enjoys creating custom characters would look forward to having an opportunity to take the time in putting a new one together. It doesn’t sound any worse off than going back to the MET or recalling from memory to recreate our old character again in the new engine. If more Mass Effect in and of itself is an insufficient hook, then I’d say that none of this makes much of a difference anyway, because it’s already at the bottom.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 24, 2021 18:13:37 GMT
To say a new protagonist has no appeal to anyone is pretty presumptuous. It will appeal to some people. Anything will appeal to some people. Apparently, even cannibalism. That is a given. The point is whether that is a good hook to bring back the masses into Mass Effect. And if we're going to go by the Ryder reveal for Andromeda and the reaction to Liara in the latest trailer, no, it is not. If more Mass Effect in and of itself is an insufficient hook, then I’d say that none of this makes much of a difference anyway, because it’s already at the bottom. Unfortunately, that's where we are.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Jan 25, 2021 0:01:13 GMT
We don't know anything about ME5 but what we can gather from an extremly vague trailer and yet it is already going to suck? I just don't understand why people do this.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Jan 25, 2021 0:06:27 GMT
Killing off hope will. And if ME5 turns out to be another product the people won't want to begin with, that will kill it. People really hope that ME5 will be closer than they think, but 2025 is the unlikely earliest we can expect it. Not to mention, waiting till 2025 for a product you won't care for, only to wait till 2035 for the next installment to, hopefully, be more to your liking.
This is literally ME's final leg. And it's not looking good.
Yeah, if they keep missing it's probably not a good thing in terms of bringing in new fans. Still, the MET is classic. It'll always have that fanbase (until we die off anyway). Judging just by the trailer views/likes ratio and general response, it seems that the IP still has some good will that could be exploited by good writers (not saying that's the current BW staff). Not the same scale, but it's a bit like Star Wars. It has survived on basically 2 good movies and 1 okay one for about 40 years. Everything else has been the equivalent of MEA (or worse). People keep giving it chances, though, just because those originals were classics. To be fair star wars also had a ridiculous amount of books at a time when science fiction wasn't a massive genre like it would become. Also to be fair star wars was not only a classic but it was unique when it came out unlike MET which came out after dozens of space games had already come out
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 25, 2021 0:44:14 GMT
We don't know anything about ME5 but what we can gather from an extremly vague trailer and yet it is already going to suck? I just don't understand why people do this. It's going to have the best gameplay in the series, it will look beautiful, it will be relatively free of bugs and glitches and it will have the same forgettable writing and characters of every other game Bioware has produced in the past 10 years. In other words, nothing I can't get from any other AAA studio. And I already have another 50 of those experiences available to me right now, without having to wait 7 years to get it. So I don't see the appeal.
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Post by traks on Jan 25, 2021 14:55:59 GMT
Just by reading the thread title, I assumed this was about using the Crucible.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Jan 25, 2021 19:15:23 GMT
We don't know anything about ME5 but what we can gather from an extremly vague trailer and yet it is already going to suck? I just don't understand why people do this. It's going to have the best gameplay in the series, it will look beautiful, it will be relatively free of bugs and glitches and it will have the same forgettable writing and characters of every other game Bioware has produced in the past 10 years. In other words, nothing I can't get from any other AAA studio. And I already have another 50 of those experiences available to me right now, without having to wait 7 years to get it. So I don't see the appeal. Again though we know nothing about it. I mean the trailer was vague and we have gotten no other info about the game. So if you have already written it off as being horrible why stay here?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 25, 2021 19:24:41 GMT
Again though we know nothing about it. I mean the trailer was vague and we have gotten no other info about the game. So if you have already written it off as being horrible why stay here? Because it's fun.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 25, 2021 19:30:01 GMT
Again though we know nothing about it. I mean the trailer was vague and we have gotten no other info about the game. So if you have already written it off as being horrible why stay here? Because it's fun.
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You'll be peeling goddamn potatoes for the rest of your miserable excuse for a military career!
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Post by General Mahad on Jan 26, 2021 0:05:48 GMT
The real issue in the MEU is there is no realistic galactic threat anymore with the Reapers, Geth and Cerberus taken care of.
The MEU as well as BioWare stories in general require a galactic/world threat to keep the stakes high while you deal with smaller conflicts along the way to vanquish said existential threat.
Sure you could argue the Leviathans are a danger but they are few and far between compared to the might of the Reaper Armada; especially now that the powers that be know they exist.
I guess you could make Krogan the bad guys again but that’s rehashing old plot points at this point.
BioWare could try to make new factions but I don’t know how successful they can be. ME:A’s enemy factions were forgettable at best and boring at worst.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 26, 2021 0:42:10 GMT
The real issue in the MEU is there is no realistic galactic threat anymore with the Reapers, Geth and Cerberus taken care of. The MEU as well as BioWare stories in general require a galactic/world threat to keep the stakes high while you deal with smaller conflicts along the way to vanquish said existential threat. Sure you could argue the Leviathans are a danger but they are few and far between compared to the might of the Reaper Armada; especially now that the powers that be know they exist. I guess you could make Krogan the bad guys again but that’s rehashing old plot points at this point. BioWare could try to make new factions but I don’t know how successful they can be. ME:A’s enemy factions were forgettable at best and boring at worst. Actually, I do believe you can twist this around.
For example: The Systems Alliance isn't the only world government on Earth. Well, now that the Systems Alliance is in shambles, after the Reaper invasion, they make a power grab for world domination.
With the Genophage cured and Wrex' preoccupation on Earth, rival clans seek to take control of Tuchanka and a return to the old ways. Now you have to help Wrex not only unite the clans, but establish himself as the undisputed leader of the Krogan.
After the Citadel coup, aliens are very prejudiced against humans. They may seek proof from the Alliance that they can be trusted further, by asking for a campaign to eradicate any and all Cerberus cells left active.
Now that the Citadel is over the Earth, the Council has lost its seat. Maybe the other races will seek independency, now that there is no galactic hub available to them. Maybe the Council will request the Citadel be returned to its rightful place, maybe the Citadel will become a trophy for pirates, now that the fleets have been decimated, or maybe the merc groups will take it for themselves.
Perhaps the Terminus system races will find a chance to band together, under a loose affiliation, to overthrow the Council races.
In the midst of all that, there's the mind control orbs of the Leviathans, who may seek to re-establish themselves as rulers of the Milky Way, causing dissent and warfare between the space faring races, hoping that they will obliterate each other and take control of what's left to be their slaves.
This is a very easy, very predictable chain of events that can happen post ME3. There are exciting things to do, after the Reapers. Arguably, more interesting as it requires working to put the galaxy back together and to ensure a future for civilization as we know it.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,864 Likes: 3,472
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Post by ahglock on Jan 26, 2021 0:54:21 GMT
Yeah I always felt there were tons of plot threads and threats to roll with in the WM at least in a post destroy ending. Hell I'd of loved a lowish destroy ending where its a survival horror game on earth. But between galactic unrest, leviathans, krogan, the terminus system there is loads of directions to go.
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Post by Radec on Jan 26, 2021 2:34:03 GMT
The Reaper plot went off the rails after one game. Nobody played the series for that. You don't really need it. The characters and world building hooked people, not the meme worthy arrogant robo-cuttlefish.
Critically speaking, the best ME game basically doesn't even involve the Reapers beyond Harbinger possessing goons and bloviating about how much you suck in a few missions.
If you think you need something beyond conventional galactic scale conflicts and political intrigue, Leviathan is basically the same thing as the Reapers without being as grossly overpowered to the point of needing a deus ex machina to defeat. It'd work fine as a big bad.
Trouble is getting a writing staff that can deliver.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 26, 2021 2:37:54 GMT
The Reaper plot went off the rails after one game. Nobody played the series for that. Also the less like ME2 the better please.
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Post by Radec on Jan 26, 2021 2:57:11 GMT
The Reaper plot went off the rails after one game. Nobody played the series for that. Also the less like ME2 the better please. You ever played ME3 without an import? I did. It was pretty bad. ME1 and 2 characters returning to complete their arcs were pretty much the only thing that carries that game anywhere, IMO. Without them it's a bad Gears of War clone where the budget ran out 2/3 of the way through the game (Priority: Earth is particularly bad)
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jan 26, 2021 3:27:43 GMT
Also the less like ME2 the better please. You ever played ME3 without an import? I did. It was pretty bad. ME1 and 2 characters returning to complete their arcs were pretty much the only thing that carries that game anywhere, IMO. Without them it's a bad Gears of War clone where the budget ran out 2/3 of the way through the game (Priority: Earth is particularly bad) And daddy issue simulator is a better game? A game who's main plot is so thin and barely there it makes Skyrim's main story seem like a novel series by comparison. So much so that the game actually forcibly kicks you into the main story at certain points just so you remember it is there because it only makes up like 20% of the game. The rest is playing delivery boy/girl or dealing with daddy issues.
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Post by Radec on Jan 26, 2021 3:56:54 GMT
You ever played ME3 without an import? I did. It was pretty bad. ME1 and 2 characters returning to complete their arcs were pretty much the only thing that carries that game anywhere, IMO. Without them it's a bad Gears of War clone where the budget ran out 2/3 of the way through the game (Priority: Earth is particularly bad) And daddy issue simulator is a better game? A game who's main plot is so thin and barely there it makes Skyrim's main story seem like a novel series by comparison. So much so that the game actually forcibly kicks you into the main story at certain points just so you remember it is there because it only makes up like 20% of the game. The rest is playing delivery boy/girl or dealing with daddy issues. Yeah, smaller, self contained character stories that also serve to build upon the unique setting, are better than watching supposedly super advanced cuttlefish fail to win the easiest war ever because they forgot the whole first game exists I mean, dumb as the collectors are, if they had the forces to take the Citadel and hit the instant I win button (shut down the relay network) they probably would have. Reapers don't even remember do that when they take the Citadel at the end (why didnt they do that first?) Collectors also killed Shep pretty quick when given the chance. I stood in front of harby on the beam run for 30 mins and he couldn't kill me. Really adds tension when the big bad antagonist is totally incompetent and fails a gimmie win so easily. If the game was comedy it'd be 10/10 tho. Never laughed harder at anything than I did at every scene with Kai Leng. Maximum cringe
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Post by NotN7 on Jan 26, 2021 6:04:47 GMT
The Reaper plot went off the rails after one game. Nobody played the series for that. Also the less like ME2 the better please. Hehe Isn't that date a live an anime toon? the young girl that does snow and ice? fun show
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Post by General Mahad on Jan 26, 2021 6:05:19 GMT
The real issue in the MEU is there is no realistic galactic threat anymore with the Reapers, Geth and Cerberus taken care of. The MEU as well as BioWare stories in general require a galactic/world threat to keep the stakes high while you deal with smaller conflicts along the way to vanquish said existential threat. Sure you could argue the Leviathans are a danger but they are few and far between compared to the might of the Reaper Armada; especially now that the powers that be know they exist. I guess you could make Krogan the bad guys again but that’s rehashing old plot points at this point. BioWare could try to make new factions but I don’t know how successful they can be. ME:A’s enemy factions were forgettable at best and boring at worst. Actually, I do believe you can twist this around.
For example: The Systems Alliance isn't the only world government on Earth. Well, now that the Systems Alliance is in shambles, after the Reaper invasion, they make a power grab for world domination.
With the Genophage cured and Wrex' preoccupation on Earth, rival clans seek to take control of Tuchanka and a return to the old ways. Now you have to help Wrex not only unite the clans, but establish himself as the undisputed leader of the Krogan.
After the Citadel coup, aliens are very prejudiced against humans. They may seek proof from the Alliance that they can be trusted further, by asking for a campaign to eradicate any and all Cerberus cells left active.
Now that the Citadel is over the Earth, the Council has lost its seat. Maybe the other races will seek independency, now that there is no galactic hub available to them. Maybe the Council will request the Citadel be returned to its rightful place, maybe the Citadel will become a trophy for pirates, now that the fleets have been decimated, or maybe the merc groups will take it for themselves.
Perhaps the Terminus system races will find a chance to band together, under a loose affiliation, to overthrow the Council races.
In the midst of all that, there's the mind control orbs of the Leviathans, who may seek to re-establish themselves as rulers of the Milky Way, causing dissent and warfare between the space faring races, hoping that they will obliterate each other and take control of what's left to be their slaves.
This is a very easy, very predictable chain of events that can happen post ME3. There are exciting things to do, after the Reapers. Arguably, more interesting as it requires working to put the galaxy back together and to ensure a future for civilization as we know it.
That’s a really good idea. I hope BioWare employees lurk here because a story can get a lot of mileage from what you are describing. Also, weren’t there several new races that were close to developing space flight before the Reapers invaded? The Yahg and some bird species I remember.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 26, 2021 10:25:07 GMT
Yeah. The Raloi, I think.
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