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Post by Sartoz on Feb 22, 2022 15:28:33 GMT
Seriously, just read an article that stated it as one of the reasons Mass Effect Andromeda only had two new aliens. That's just limits the creativity of the developers. One of my main criticisms of scifi alien is that they look too human. Furthermore cosplay is suppose to be icing on the cake, other word you can't enjoy frosting if the cake isn't there
Creating aliens is very hard, according to Bio. I doubt we will see more than two in ME5. You've got to give credit to those artists that came up with the ones we have in the ME universe.
As to aliens looking too human... well that makes sense, if you think about. There's got to be some compatibility between humans and aliens for meaningful interaction. Otherwise, in the sci-fi universe, truly alien looking races will have concepts too hard for us to grasp and vice versa. Farscape, for example, has really weird looking ones. One cannot possibly romance Pilot , the Sheyang, the Budong, the Ancient or the Scarran. Their personalities are just " too alien".
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 22, 2022 15:43:02 GMT
Seriously, just read an article that stated it as one of the reasons Mass Effect Andromeda only had two new aliens. That's just limits the creativity of the developers. One of my main criticisms of scifi alien is that they look too human. Furthermore cosplay is suppose to be icing on the cake, other word you can't enjoy frosting if the cake isn't there
Creating aliens is very hard, according to Bio. I doubt we will see more than two in ME5. You've got to give credit to those artists that came up with the ones we have in the ME universe.
As to aliens looking too human... well that makes sense, if you think about. There's got to be some compatibility between humans and aliens for meaningful interaction. Otherwise, in the sci-fi universe, truly alien looking races will have concepts too hard for us to grasp and vice versa. Farscape, for example, has really weird looking ones. One cannot possibly romance Pilot , the Sheyang, the Budong, the Ancient or the Scarran. Their personalities are just " too alien".
(◔‿◔)
____________________________ And that right there is a major part of the problem. Making everything with the sole purpose of being romance-able. I would much rather have had an exploration of how a distinctly alien being perceives the universe around them rather than having some digital f**k buddy. I mean if people are so hungry for that sort of debauchery the internet will gladly fulfill any kind of kink one could possibly have. It's the same reason why we can't have truly intellectual explorations of the nature of sapient AI in our fiction as everything instead has be a cheap stand in for racism against the poor humans wearing metal-face (looking at you Detroit: Become Human)
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Post by hulluliini on Feb 28, 2022 7:50:48 GMT
If cosplay had been a consideration from the start, I bet we wouldn't have salarians, elcor, volus, turians... they were clearly not intended as romanceable. Considering how little romance content we get for each romance, it's really stupid to let it dominate such fundamental decisions in design.
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N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Feb 28, 2022 15:38:02 GMT
If cosplay had been a consideration from the start, I bet we wouldn't have salarians, elcor, volus, turians... they were clearly not intended as romanceable. Considering how little romance content we get for each romance, it's really stupid to let it dominate such fundamental decisions in design.
Plus it probably wasn't planned to have turians and quarians as love interests but Tali and Garrus popularity were too much and fans demanding it that one or both become LIs in ME2 and BioWare caved and came up with some technobabble to hand wave the thing how sex could cause Shepard and Tali and FemShep and Garrus not getting sick and dying because of sex. Once that was established BioWare figured that MEA Vetra could bang either of the Ryder twins and it even state that human and turians often have sex, if you scan one of the beds in that motel on Kadara the text states that human/turian sexual intercourse had happen there recently. So humans and turians do hook up beyond Ryder and Vetra and Shepard and Garrus. There was also the quarian talking about dating a human to a turian in ME2 but I would think that humans that would see quarians would either be quarians on pilgrimage or exiled that it's a slightly more uncommon/rare to see a human and quarian hook up but it does happen.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 28, 2022 18:18:21 GMT
If cosplay had been a consideration from the start, I bet we wouldn't have salarians, elcor, volus, turians... they were clearly not intended as romanceable. Considering how little romance content we get for each romance, it's really stupid to let it dominate such fundamental decisions in design. I disagree. To me there were many other elements listed even in the article linked at the start that just blaming not having races on cosplay is ignoring other issues. To me the bigger reason then cosplay was that they were only budgeted for two new races. You want to have a race that can do more then stand in a corner acting like a coatrack like the Elcor, Volus, Hanar did in ME1. That way you can use them as many different ways possible instead of just having them as an exposition machine that gives you dialogue when you press a button. Cosplay might have been a factor, but I can only imagine the outrage if a race was added to the game that did nothing but just stand somewhere because they couldn't figure out how to animate it properly.
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Post by hulluliini on Mar 1, 2022 9:54:48 GMT
If cosplay had been a consideration from the start, I bet we wouldn't have salarians, elcor, volus, turians... they were clearly not intended as romanceable. Considering how little romance content we get for each romance, it's really stupid to let it dominate such fundamental decisions in design. I disagree. To me there were many other elements listed even in the article linked at the start that just blaming not having races on cosplay is ignoring other issues. To me the bigger reason then cosplay was that they were only budgeted for two new races. You want to have a race that can do more then stand in a corner acting like a coatrack like the Elcor, Volus, Hanar did in ME1. That way you can use them as many different ways possible instead of just having them as an exposition machine that gives you dialogue when you press a button. Cosplay might have been a factor, but I can only imagine the outrage if a race was added to the game that did nothing but just stand somewhere because they couldn't figure out how to animate it properly. If they had been concerned with not knowing how to animate elcor, volus, hanar (clearly they still don't know how to animate them), we wouldn't have any of those races, but we do. They were overall less concerned about superficial and unrelevant stuff like romances and cosplay with ME1 and that was a good thing. They had a small budget and it showed in the amount of content and the generic planet stuff, but not in the quality of the writing or design.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 1, 2022 12:59:08 GMT
I disagree. To me there were many other elements listed even in the article linked at the start that just blaming not having races on cosplay is ignoring other issues. To me the bigger reason then cosplay was that they were only budgeted for two new races. You want to have a race that can do more then stand in a corner acting like a coatrack like the Elcor, Volus, Hanar did in ME1. That way you can use them as many different ways possible instead of just having them as an exposition machine that gives you dialogue when you press a button. Cosplay might have been a factor, but I can only imagine the outrage if a race was added to the game that did nothing but just stand somewhere because they couldn't figure out how to animate it properly. If they had been concerned with not knowing how to animate elcor, volus, hanar (clearly they still don't know how to animate them), we wouldn't have any of those races, but we do. They were overall less concerned about superficial and unrelevant stuff like romances and cosplay with ME1 and that was a good thing. They had a small budget and it showed in the amount of content and the generic planet stuff, but not in the quality of the writing or design. Have you seen what happens if BioWare doesn't have a lot of romance content? I saw more people upset at the options for romances in Andromeda then not having enough alien looking races and it focusing as much as they did I think was pandering further to their audience. Even if BioWare cut all romance content out of the game I doubt it would have gone to races anyway, the way that article was written is that they were told they could have three new alien species not that they cut some to put content elsewhere. With the three races added in Andromeda Kett, Angora, and Remnant to me they did the best they could with what they were told they could do. Mass Effect 1 added every species in the game so if they had the option to make 10 different races maybe they would have been able to make a more "alien" alien that would just stand there and talk to us. I am not saying they didn't look at cosplay at all for their reason, but I think people saw that one comment and jumped to the conclusion that if they didn't use cosplay as part of their decision making process there would be more "alien" aliens and I am very skeptical that is accurate. A decision like that even if we don't see it has a lot more factors in play then just people dressing up in costumes.
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Post by Vortex13 on Mar 1, 2022 17:24:17 GMT
I don't know why "cosplay-ablitiy" has to mean entirely human-like though.
There are plenty of cosplayers out there who created costumes that are very alien and non-humanoid. People have cosplayed as Legion, Grunt, even an Elcor at one con.
The way BioWare uses the word cosplay in the article, even in the sense of just referring to dressing up in costumes, seems like an excuse to be lazy. And that's before you even get into the writing behind the Angara.
I will refer to this video as my prime example of how lazy BioWare was in Andromeda when it came to overall alien design:
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Origin: GVArcian
XBL Gamertag: GVArcian
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Post by Arcian on Mar 3, 2022 2:49:24 GMT
Seriously, just read an article that stated it as one of the reasons Mass Effect Andromeda only had two new aliens. That's just limits the creativity of the developers. One of my main criticisms of scifi alien is that they look too human. Furthermore cosplay is suppose to be icing on the cake, other word you can't enjoy frosting if the cake isn't there That's asinine, ME:A only had two new alien races because they had to slap the game together in 12 months after wasting their time prototyping No Man's Effect for 3 years.
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Post by hulluliini on Mar 3, 2022 9:47:24 GMT
Seriously, just read an article that stated it as one of the reasons Mass Effect Andromeda only had two new aliens. That's just limits the creativity of the developers. One of my main criticisms of scifi alien is that they look too human. Furthermore cosplay is suppose to be icing on the cake, other word you can't enjoy frosting if the cake isn't there
Creating aliens is very hard, according to Bio. I doubt we will see more than two in ME5. You've got to give credit to those artists that came up with the ones we have in the ME universe.
As to aliens looking too human... well that makes sense, if you think about. There's got to be some compatibility between humans and aliens for meaningful interaction. Otherwise, in the sci-fi universe, truly alien looking races will have concepts too hard for us to grasp and vice versa. Farscape, for example, has really weird looking ones. One cannot possibly romance Pilot , the Sheyang, the Budong, the Ancient or the Scarran. Their personalities are just " too alien".
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I suppose the success of ME boils down to the romance content. Sigh.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 3, 2022 13:42:38 GMT
Creating aliens is very hard, according to Bio. I doubt we will see more than two in ME5. You've got to give credit to those artists that came up with the ones we have in the ME universe.
As to aliens looking too human... well that makes sense, if you think about. There's got to be some compatibility between humans and aliens for meaningful interaction. Otherwise, in the sci-fi universe, truly alien looking races will have concepts too hard for us to grasp and vice versa. Farscape, for example, has really weird looking ones. One cannot possibly romance Pilot , the Sheyang, the Budong, the Ancient or the Scarran. Their personalities are just " too alien".
(◔‿◔)
____________________________
I suppose the success of ME boils down to the romance content. Sigh. Pretty sure that is how some segments of the internet look at any BioWare game. For if they aren't represented or their chosen one isn't done in a way they like its the loudest complaining out there. Personally I think the one thing BioWare did right with Anthem was not to have any romances and at one point one of the former writers at BioWare said that they wish they didn't feel obligated to put them into the games.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Mar 3, 2022 15:42:44 GMT
I suppose the success of ME boils down to the romance content. Sigh. Pretty sure that is how some segments of the internet look at any BioWare game. For if they aren't represented or their chosen one isn't done in a way they like its the loudest complaining out there. Personally I think the one thing BioWare did right with Anthem was not to have any romances and at one point one of the former writers at BioWare said that they wish they didn't feel obligated to put them into the games. Should just leave that to those who write smut fanfics. You can play ME without romancing anybody (then again, ME3 does try to push you into a romance...)
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Post by hulluliini on Mar 4, 2022 7:36:32 GMT
The ME1 romances felt quite natural and optional, apart from Liara who was quite pushy. In ME:A, you can now clearly tell which options would lead into a romance so you can avoid them. I'm not aware of anyone else but Peebee propositioning Ryder. I guess it's in asari nature?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 4, 2022 8:47:10 GMT
The ME1 romances felt quite natural and optional, apart from Liara who was quite pushy. In ME:A, you can now clearly tell which options would lead into a romance so you can avoid them. I'm not aware of anyone else but Peebee propositioning Ryder. I guess it's in asari nature? If you are locked into a romance before that scene, PeeBee never makes that proposition and instead just thanks Ryder.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Mar 6, 2022 7:01:10 GMT
The ME1 romances felt quite natural and optional, apart from Liara who was quite pushy. In ME:A, you can now clearly tell which options would lead into a romance so you can avoid them. I'm not aware of anyone else but Peebee propositioning Ryder. I guess it's in asari nature? This month I've been re-running my original male Shep playthrough, except with Kaidan as the VS. Come ME3, and he's coming on heavily to Shep (a Shep on a different romance at that) and you have to actively turn him down. I know they added in his romance for maleShep as an ME3 thing, back in the day, but it's really clumsy. It got me thinking about which companions we've had in BW games so far who actually pursue the PC. Liara has her crush (which turns to full on love, whether requited or not), but doesn't keep 'pursuing' Shep after that conversation in ME (though I do like that they wrote in the possibility of Shep gradually falling for her by the time ME3 comes around), Morrigan tries to get male Wardens to sleep with her but only pre-romance. (Funnily enough, my first Warden got approval with her too quickly for that– so he had the full romance with her but not the awkward sex scene.) Peebee, if you count her, but I'd rather forget she existed. IIRC Anders flips out at a Hawke who doesn't accept his proposition toward the beginning of DA2. Am I missing anyone?
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Post by hulluliini on Mar 7, 2022 8:16:53 GMT
The ME1 romances felt quite natural and optional, apart from Liara who was quite pushy. In ME:A, you can now clearly tell which options would lead into a romance so you can avoid them. I'm not aware of anyone else but Peebee propositioning Ryder. I guess it's in asari nature? If you are locked into a romance before that scene, PeeBee never makes that proposition and instead just thanks Ryder. I had been flirting with Suvi as much as I could by the time that scene became available. How do you lock a romance if you have gone through all available romance dialogue. Meh.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 7, 2022 8:24:32 GMT
If you are locked into a romance before that scene, PeeBee never makes that proposition and instead just thanks Ryder. I had been flirting with Suvi as much as I could by the time that scene became available. How do you lock a romance if you have gone through all available romance dialogue. Meh. Basically don’t talk to Peebee at the museum until after you lock in with your romance, since the pod scene is after that one.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Mar 7, 2022 8:42:21 GMT
The ME1 romances felt quite natural and optional, apart from Liara who was quite pushy. In ME:A, you can now clearly tell which options would lead into a romance so you can avoid them. I'm not aware of anyone else but Peebee propositioning Ryder. I guess it's in asari nature? I also thought in ME1 and MEA the romances are more natural than in 2 and 3.. though I must admit I dont much remember anymore from 2 or 3.
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Post by hulluliini on Mar 7, 2022 8:43:54 GMT
I had been flirting with Suvi as much as I could by the time that scene became available. How do you lock a romance if you have gone through all available romance dialogue. Meh. Basically don’t talk to Peebee at the museum until after you lock in with your romance, since the pod scene is after that one. But how is the romance locked in? Now I'm worried Suvi may be forever out of my grasp just because I *talked* to Peebee. Ryder flirted with her in the beginning but Suvi hasn't had any new dialogue in a while. I have 2 outposts so I'm about 40% into the game.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 7, 2022 10:59:34 GMT
Basically don’t talk to Peebee at the museum until after you lock in with your romance, since the pod scene is after that one. But how is the romance locked in? Now I'm worried Suvi may be forever out of my grasp just because I *talked* to Peebee. Ryder flirted with her in the beginning but Suvi hasn't had any new dialogue in a while. I have 2 outposts so I'm about 40% into the game. Romances progress with each main mission completed. They usually lock in after rescuing the Salarian Ark. For Suvi, there will be a scene where you drink tea in Ryder’s room. That’s when it’ll lock. Speaking to PeeBee, or even taking her up in the casual sex offer, doesn’t lock you out of other romances.
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Post by stewy on Apr 3, 2022 3:21:54 GMT
Seriously, just read an article that stated it as one of the reasons Mass Effect Andromeda only had two new aliens. That's just limits the creativity of the developers. One of my main criticisms of scifi alien is that they look too human. Furthermore cosplay is suppose to be icing on the cake, other word you can't enjoy frosting if the cake isn't there It was lack of resources, not cosplay BS. Really you should stay away from clickbait.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 3, 2022 3:38:51 GMT
Seriously, just read an article that stated it as one of the reasons Mass Effect Andromeda only had two new aliens. That's just limits the creativity of the developers. One of my main criticisms of scifi alien is that they look too human. Furthermore cosplay is suppose to be icing on the cake, other word you can't enjoy frosting if the cake isn't there It was lack of resources, not cosplay BS. Really you should stay away from clickbait. Plus them only exploring a star cluster, not a large part of a galaxy. They even said before release the plan was each game would expand more into Andromeda, seeing more places and meeting new races. Having as many races in MEA as in ME1 would have been ridiculous. Especially since they already had to include many Milky Way ones.
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Post by stewy on Apr 10, 2022 1:53:47 GMT
It was lack of resources, not cosplay BS. Really you should stay away from clickbait. Plus them only exploring a star cluster, not a large part of a galaxy. They even said before release the plan was each game would expand more into Andromeda, seeing more places and meeting new races. Having as many races in MEA as in ME1 would have been ridiculous. Especially since they already had to include many Milky Way ones. Just to add some more info......I was reading an interview with on of the artists and they made 5-6 new specifies/races in pre-production....with only the Angara being in the game. The artist quoted lack of resources as the reason for the other races being left out. Believable enough since lack of funding and resources were a huge problem for MEA throughout.
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,941 Likes: 17,668
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 11, 2022 16:31:29 GMT
Believable enough since lack of funding and resources were a huge problem for MEA throughout. Is that true? I thought the issue was that they spent a lot of time and resources on creating procedurally generated worlds but then decided to scrap that idea and go in another direction.
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ahglock
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Apr 16, 2022 4:08:35 GMT
Believable enough since lack of funding and resources were a huge problem for MEA throughout. Is that true? I thought the issue was that they spent a lot of time and resources on creating procedurally generated worlds but then decided to scrap that idea and go in another direction. Funding I am not sure about but they scrapped like 3.5 years of work. Though it really sounds like they were just fiddling around and doing pretty much nothing for 3.5 years from the leaks due to a lack of direction from management. And then eventually EA was like, we need a game sometime people and they crapped it out in 18 months.
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