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Post by Blast Processor on Feb 25, 2021 0:32:49 GMT
To be fair you need to have at least an IQ of 350 to appreciate a take that consists of a chain of hypotheticals and ends with a very definite conclusion on the precise goals Mass Effect needs to hit to avoid being a dead IP. In a thread about the IP possibly getting an adaptation. What are they going to adapt? The journey of the Space Hamster.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 25, 2021 0:41:21 GMT
We don't really know what this is. Given its a wiki page it could amount to nothing. Did this even come from anywhere BioWare related?
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Post by phaedon on Feb 25, 2021 0:43:50 GMT
Maybe it's going to be the Warner Bros. adaptation of ME1 (only 11 years late). Maybe it's a Netflix series about the Skyllian Blitz that never leaves pre-production. Maybe HC is just voicing a squadmate in ME5. Or maybe it's an audiobook release of Mass Effect: Deception. I could definitely not predict what it's going to be with any amount of certainty, which is why I don't engage in the doomer alternative to soothsaying. Trying to make heads or tails of Bioware's marketing strategy, isn't doomsaying. But if it is a bad marketing strategy, I am going to call it such. Mass Effect has been misshandled. Whether it has to do with making the finale of a trilogy in 18 months, or making a new start in 18 months, then canceling all future related projects on release day, it has been mishandled. And it has suffered. If it hadn't been mishandled, just like Star Trek has been in recent years, we wouldn't need to analyze Bioware's marketing strategy. We would accept whatever Bioware put out. Things aren't rosy. Mass Effect was just never going to be a cultural phenomenon in the way Star Trek was, because a lot of Star Trek's success was related to it hitting just right in regards to a bunch of social and cultural factors, as well as aspects of a rising medium that don't really have an 1:1 analogue to the 2000-2010s and modern gaming. Going down a chain of hypotheticals (consistently going for the bad outcome, obviously) and reaching a definite conclusion isn't wonky analysis. Because you can't do any serious sort of forecasting that doesn't embrace uncertainty. The only sort of...data(?) that you even mention is MEA didn't sell too well (extrapolating that to "Mass Effect just doesn't sell well these days" because of course) and yet you are prescribing the exact goals ME5 needs to hit.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Feb 25, 2021 0:45:32 GMT
We don't really know what this is. Given its a wiki page it could amount to nothing. Did this even come from anywhere BioWare related? No, but why is he being so cryptic? Like, how many times have BioWare devs teased us with "soon" comments?
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Post by Andrew Waples on Feb 25, 2021 0:48:40 GMT
Trying to make heads or tails of Bioware's marketing strategy, isn't doomsaying. But if it is a bad marketing strategy, I am going to call it such. Mass Effect has been misshandled. Whether it has to do with making the finale of a trilogy in 18 months, or making a new start in 18 months, then canceling all future related projects on release day, it has been mishandled. And it has suffered. If it hadn't been mishandled, just like Star Trek has been in recent years, we wouldn't need to analyze Bioware's marketing strategy. We would accept whatever Bioware put out. Things aren't rosy. Mass Effect was just never going to be a cultural phenomenon in the way Star Trek was, because a lot of Star Trek's success was related to it hitting just right in regards to a bunch of social and cultural factors, as well as aspects of a rising medium that don't really have an 1:1 analogue to the 2000-2010s and modern gaming. Going down a chain of hypotheticals (consistently going for the bad outcome, obviously) and reaching a definite conclusion isn't wonky analysis. Because you can't do any serious sort of forecasting that doesn't embrace uncertainty. The only sort of...data(?) that you even mention is MEA didn't sell too well (extrapolating that to "Mass Effect just doesn't sell well these days" because of course) and yet you are prescribing the exact goals ME5 needs to hit. We're forgetting the major difference here. Mass Effect is a video game and Star Trek was/is a TV series movie. TV or movies are always going to be more accessible then video games. While video games have become more popular, Star Trek is always going to be more known then Mass Effect ever will be.
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Post by phaedon on Feb 25, 2021 0:57:36 GMT
We're forgetting the major difference here. Mass Effect is a video game and Star Trek was/is a TV series movie. TV or movies are always going to be more accessible then video games. While video games have become more popular, Star Trek is always going to be more known then Mass Effect ever will be. Exactly. Different medium, much lower barrier of entry, much broader cultural appeal. Star Trek didn't become a phenomenon because it had consistently quality writing or something. It also had to reinvent itself a few times to stay relevant, and it did a good job at that most of the time.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 25, 2021 1:09:45 GMT
Mass Effect was just never going to be a cultural phenomenon in the way Star Trek was, because a lot of Star Trek's success was related to it hitting just right in regards to a bunch of social and cultural factors, as well as aspects of a rising medium that don't really have an 1:1 analogue to the 2000-2010s and modern gaming. I disagree. I think a lot of paralels could be drawn. It's not going to be 1:1 analogue, but the trajectory was there. The new tehcnologies, the hardware, gaming as a medium, ME was there at the right time, to address an audience in gaming that was there, but had not been reached by anyone else, not in this way. Going down a chain of hypotheticals (consistently going for the bad outcome, obviously) and reaching a definite conclusion isn't wonky analysis. Because you can't do any serious sort of forecasting that doesn't embrace uncertainty. There is always an uncertainty in predictions. Which is why we are making discussions. That is my analysisn. Consider it wonky, but I am factoring the damage of the franchise sustained from ME3, the endings and the subsequent treatment of the fanbase during the debacle, the small turnout for ME:A and the immediate cancelation of all related to that title projects, as well as the canning of the studio, the commercial, critical and community reception of ME:A in itself, the re-release of the trilogy for modern consoles with a lot of skeptisism associated with it already and a sequel, so far in the future, that its announcement doesn't even make sense. These are all very bad for marketing a product. The only sort of...data(?) that you even mention is MEA didn't sell too well (extrapolating that to "Mass Effect just doesn't sell well these days" because of course) and yet you are prescribing the exact goals ME5 needs to hit. Yes, because if Bioware intends to keep using this franchise, and not end it with ME5, they will need to build it up again. What is Bioware being known now? Releasing two barely functional games, for $60 and abandoning them with the absolute minimal support. In the case of the second game, they strung along its fanbase for 2 years and waited 2 days after its 2nd anniversary to announce it to the fanbase. Public opinion right now, is not at an all time high. When you make an investment, which is what ME5 is at this point, you don't get return on that investment on day 1. Right now, ME is starting from square one. If we were getting a title with Shepard and co., as the teaser implies with Liara being there, for most people at least, we wouldn't be, but we both know that it's not happening, so we may as well be at square one. So if we are making ME5 with a new protagonist, what that titles achieves, will be a mediocre success. It will break even, maybe even get a slight return. The second game, to make the initial investment worthwhile, will need to have grown a good 50% compared to the first game. And it, too, will need to be well received, so that the third game, will know the success that EA wants from it. Anything smaller than that, EA is going to chop all support for the title and, quite likely, the franchise as a whole. EA will not settle for ME1 levels of sales for Bioware's "flagship" titles, in 2025. Triple A segment budgets, are not sustainable at 1m copies sold. Because, if the game costs 100m CAD to make, at an average of $70 US a pop, all sold digitally, through origin, where EA keeps 100% of the money, 1m copies sold on launch is still $70m US. It's barely making its budget and under non-realistic conditions. In reality, it will have to sell 2.5m copies at launch to break even. If current gen development costs don't grow higher, compared to last gen.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 25, 2021 1:14:59 GMT
We're forgetting the major difference here. Mass Effect is a video game and Star Trek was/is a TV series movie. TV or movies are always going to be more accessible then video games. While video games have become more popular, Star Trek is always going to be more known then Mass Effect ever will be. Mass Effect could have been it, though. It could be everywhere. Animated shows, expanded universe books and comics, movies and TV shows. Multiple projects running at all times. Like we sorta use to get, between ME2 and ME3. Only, instead of the shit that Dietz and Mac put out, we'd get actuall good stuff, from people that knew the mediums. Like Nunzio and Christina are still trying to do for DA. We're not at where we used to be. And it all died with ME3.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 25, 2021 1:48:04 GMT
Who would even be the writer?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 25, 2021 1:50:20 GMT
Who would even be the writer? Mac Walters, of course.
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Post by mtheillusive on Feb 25, 2021 1:53:55 GMT
Wait wait wait wait wait hold up....didn't Andromeda sell only a bit less than 3? Second best launch sales of the entire series, etc., etc. For a new protagonist and after the controversy of ME3...that is not something I would call a failure financially. And seeing that the MENext trailer and Legendary Edition trailers hap people foaming out of their mouths....Mass Effect dead? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa! Wait wait wait... Just saying...  This is a very...interesting board... Anyway, back to Mr.Cavill. Who knows?!? I think he'd make a great Shepard if he gets the haircut, and if he's just a VA..that's great too! Looking forward to seeing what happens.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 25, 2021 1:58:34 GMT
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 25, 2021 2:01:32 GMT
Wait wait wait wait wait hold up....didn't Andromeda sell only a bit less than 3? Second best launch sales of the entire series, etc., etc. For a new protagonist and after the controversy of ME3...that is not something I would call a failure financially. And seeing that the MENext trailer and Legendary Edition trailers hap people foaming out of their mouths....Mass Effect dead? Analysts, media and EA's own finnancial call put ME:A's sales to 1.5m copies sold at launch and 2.5m copies sold in its first year. Approximately, similar to ME2. So, maybe second best, but when ME2 was released amidst the Great Recession and when the gaming medium was much smaller than what it was in 2017 and with ME:A having a budget of $100m CA, that it inches out ME2 is not a success. Not financially, at least. Context.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 25, 2021 2:09:07 GMT
Wait wait wait wait wait hold up....didn't Andromeda sell only a bit less than 3? Second best launch sales of the entire series, etc., etc. For a new protagonist and after the controversy of ME3...that is not something I would call a failure financially. And seeing that the MENext trailer and Legendary Edition trailers hap people foaming out of their mouths....Mass Effect dead? Analysts, media and EA's own finnancial call put ME:A's sales to 1.5m copies sold at launch and 2.5m copies sold in its first year. Approximately, similar to ME2. So, maybe second best, but when ME2 was released amidst the Great Recession and when the gaming medium was much smaller than what it was in 2017 and with ME:A having a budget of $100m CA, that it inches out ME2 is not a success. Not financially, at least. Context. Add in it had a steep sales drop off after launch compared to other titles and it quickly went on deep discount and you can see where the 2nd million in sales came from. People like to deny it, but if it had done well we would have got some DLC.
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Post by mtheillusive on Feb 25, 2021 2:09:18 GMT
Wait wait wait wait wait hold up....didn't Andromeda sell only a bit less than 3? Second best launch sales of the entire series, etc., etc. For a new protagonist and after the controversy of ME3...that is not something I would call a failure financially. And seeing that the MENext trailer and Legendary Edition trailers hap people foaming out of their mouths....Mass Effect dead? Analysts, media and EA's own finnancial call put ME:A's sales to 1.5m copies sold at launch and 2.5m copies sold in its first year. Approximately, similar to ME2. So, maybe second best, but when ME2 was released amidst the Great Recession and when the gaming medium was much smaller than what it was in 2017 and with ME:A having a budget of $100m CA, that it inches out ME2 is not a success. Not financially, at least. Context. Yea, but this is also AFTER the ME3 controversy, which left a lot of people jaded, AND with a whole new protagonist(s) AND with a bad rep before and after release. And it STILL did as good as ME2. That's not an easy feat. Anthem on the other hand....
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Post by river82 on Feb 25, 2021 2:29:35 GMT
Wait wait wait wait wait hold up....didn't Andromeda sell only a bit less than 3? Second best launch sales of the entire series, etc., etc. For a new protagonist and after the controversy of ME3...that is not something I would call a failure financially. And seeing that the MENext trailer and Legendary Edition trailers hap people foaming out of their mouths....Mass Effect dead? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa! Wait wait wait... Just saying...  This is a very...interesting board... Anyway, back to Mr.Cavill. Who knows?!? I think he'd make a great Shepard if he gets the haircut, and if he's just a VA..that's great too! Looking forward to seeing what happens. Series launches mean little because launch sales of a game are dictated by the success of the previous installments. So second best launch sales for the entire series indicates hype for the series was strong, but how sales continues after that helps determine whether the installment itself is strong. So saying it's a failure financially is a stretch, but so is using strong launch sales to show popularity of a series installment. Back to Cavill, I very much hope it's not a movie. VERY few game to movie adaptations are any good. You have ... Detective Pikachu I guess.
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Post by telanadas on Feb 25, 2021 3:33:46 GMT
Ok so on the same day that they announce the end of Anthem, we get teased on a potential new ME show...  Is it just too obvious or is it just me? The amount of content and stuff they've been releasing makes it seem like they need way more cash to continue their dev work...
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Post by ahglock on Feb 25, 2021 4:41:39 GMT
The obvious choice is its a show, but I'm thinking about it and is mass effect a franchise that still has market power to get something like that going anymore. Around ME3 times, sure. 9 years later with MEA being the last entry, who tosses money at that movie/show. We got the witcher when it was still in recent memory. I'd think they would at least wait to see how the legendary edition pans out before thinking of budgeting for something like this.
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Post by jrpN7 on Feb 25, 2021 5:20:13 GMT
I'm very confident Ryder will remain as protagonist in next ME game. ...how in the world do you figure? What props this confidence so high? Because, ouff. -- But wow. Henry fucking Cavill. Shepard now synonymous with Superman. Damn, never imagined it but he'd make an amazing Shepard. Buzz the hair, add a scar and insert blue contacts and I can see it. He certainly has the jaw of justice. But I hope they don't go the TV route. Cavill is too busy anyway to do more than lend his voice, right? However, many all over seem to think Cavill will be Shepard as if in a TV role... Video Spanish website website  Also, Cavill said he had a bundle of papers. So, the quarian references could just be where he's currently at in his catching-up on the ME lore. Although, a male quarian squadmate with his voice would be amazing. Sign me up for that lovefest.
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 25, 2021 5:31:17 GMT
Gamermd83 (Wakanda Forever) @gamermd83This shook me so much I couldn't believe it was real. Nick double checked it just to make sure and it is most definitely real!! If he's doing research for Mass Effect he should check out my Mass Effect Talks!
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Post by Croatsky on Feb 25, 2021 7:09:46 GMT
I'm very confident Ryder will remain as protagonist in next ME game. ...how in the world do you figure? What props this confidence so high? Because, ouff. -- Ryder is already established character, along with their squadmates and allies.
Along with a lot of unfinished stories related to Ryder, it would be much easier for BioWare to just continue and expand upon Ryder, instead of doing completely new PC with completely new crew.
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Post by Croatsky on Feb 25, 2021 7:12:11 GMT
Yeah, if Cavill’s tease is about a ME tv show or movie, I have little doubt he’d play Shepard. Unless they’d create a character from scratch just for him to play, which I personally doubt. There are a very few things that would kill my mood for Mass Effect than re-telling of Shepard's story in a movie or series.
Do an original story, not an inferior adaption.
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Post by Croatsky on Feb 25, 2021 7:16:04 GMT
What are they going to adapt? Maybe it's going to be the Warner Bros. adaptation of ME1 (only 11 years late). Maybe it's a Netflix series about the Skyllian Blitz that never leaves pre-production. Maybe HC is just voicing a squadmate in ME5. Or maybe it's an audiobook release of Mass Effect: Deception. I could definitely not predict what it's going to be with any amount of certainty, which is why I don't engage in the doomer alternative to soothsaying. Well they did promised a rewrite of that book, it just never came.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 25, 2021 7:29:48 GMT
...how in the world do you figure? What props this confidence so high? Because, ouff. -- Ryder is already established character, along with their squadmates and allies.
Along with a lot of unfinished stories related to Ryder, it would be much easier for BioWare to just continue and expand upon Ryder, instead of doing completely new PC with completely new crew.
Plus with MEA being Ryder's coming into maturity story it would be nice to play 'grown up' Ryder.
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Post by Croatsky on Feb 25, 2021 7:33:14 GMT
Ryder is already established character, along with their squadmates and allies.
Along with a lot of unfinished stories related to Ryder, it would be much easier for BioWare to just continue and expand upon Ryder, instead of doing completely new PC with completely new crew.
Plus with MEA being Ryder's coming into maturity story it would be nice to play 'grown up' Ryder. Ryder does become more mature by late stage of main MEA story. It is very clear that was always BioWare's plan with Ryder.
It would be tragedy for them to drop that just because of unfair backlash Ryder had, also foolish as new PC would still be compared to Shepard anyway, whom had trilogy to grow instead of just one game.
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