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Post by taarsidathanhalsaam on Feb 26, 2021 22:01:20 GMT
Keeping in mind that starting in ME1 “Renegade” playthroughs are meant to be ones in which Shepard embodies a mindset of “complete the mission at all costs, do whatever dirty tactic and make whatever sacrifice is necessary”, it always seemed strange to me that throughout the trilogy picking the renegade option rarely if ever leads to visibly better outcomes for the galaxy.
If you kill the rachni queen to ensure the rachni never return as a threat they still return in ME3
If you sacrifice the council to make humanity stronger the extra resources you get are worth about the same as the destiny ascension’s resources, and the all-human or human-led council that was only put in place thanks to shepard’s word at the end of ME1 still doesn’t believe Shepard about the reapers or give them resources to fight the reapers off.
And most of the time when you make the renegade choice to kill off a character that got in your way instead of the paragon choice to spare them, all that happens is that character doesn’t show up again, but no meaningful advantage was gained from killing them. So really on a meta level all you’ve done is denied yourself some future content in your playthrough.
Of course it makes sense that sometimes pragmatic choice has unintentional consequences that outweigh the short term benefit. But when nearly every choice is like that it makes a renegade shepard feel like an idiot who constantly does eeeevil things that keep biting them in the behind. And it makes Paragon Shepard’s choices seem like they’re always the “correct” choice because they get even better results than renegade shepard, and without ever having to get their hands dirty.
So what I’m hoping is that any future games in the Mass Effect series will have a bit more of a balance and nuance here. Maybe have a paragon shepard choice blow up in their face once in a while, and have some renegade shepard choices actually turn out to be worth it?
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Post by Cyberstrike on Feb 26, 2021 22:16:54 GMT
No, they won't.
Because here's the thing: the renegade choices were always like the dark side choices in KOTOR especially in ME1. For example a human backed/led council makes the other races not trust humanity especially when humanity needs them in ME3. I mean why should they? That isn't bad storytelling that is how people like them will react in the real world.
The renegade path is basically telling "You make a bad decision it will always end badly for you." That is the point of the Renegade path.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 26, 2021 22:19:48 GMT
No they won't. Namely because I doubt they're going back to Paragon/Renegade choices. They'll almost certainly continue what they've established with DAI and MEA, which is a much better system.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 26, 2021 22:50:53 GMT
And most of the time when you make the renegade choice to kill off a character that got in your way instead of the paragon choice to spare them, all that happens is that character doesn’t show up again, but no meaningful advantage was gained from killing them. So really on a meta level all you’ve done is denied yourself some future content in your playthrough. Oh but there is an advantage to killing off a character. Take a look at Wrex. he's just some dumb krogan who only answers to his shotgun. Killing him on Virmire is a good thing. it's a him or me situation. If he is killed in ME1 or not recruited, depending on what the player chooses to do in ME2/3, Mordin can survive. If the player chooses to cure the genophage, the player gets more war assets than if Wrex was in ME3. So no to the deny yourself future content. I call it replay value. Another example. The player decides not to recruit Tali in ME2. Because of that, a squadmate will die because no shields. Depending on the squadmate that dies, it could have an effect on the number of assets received in ME3 and if a character lives or dies. Here's another. Give Cerberus the geth that is found on the derelict reaper. When dealing with the quarians and geth, the geth vi shows up, there's no chance at getting peace, and the geth that was given to Cerberus shows up on Chronos to kill Shepard.
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Post by taarsidathanhalsaam on Feb 26, 2021 23:19:04 GMT
And most of the time when you make the renegade choice to kill off a character that got in your way instead of the paragon choice to spare them, all that happens is that character doesn’t show up again, but no meaningful advantage was gained from killing them. So really on a meta level all you’ve done is denied yourself some future content in your playthrough. Oh but there is an advantage to killing off a character. Take a look at Wrex. he's just some dumb krogan who only answers to his shotgun. Killing him on Virmire is a good thing. it's a him or me situation. If he is killed in ME1 or not recruited, depending on what the player chooses to do in ME2/3, Mordin can survive. If the player chooses to cure the genophage, the player gets more war assets than if Wrex was in ME3. So no to the deny yourself future content. I call it replay value. Another example. The player decides not to recruit Tali in ME2. Because of that, a squadmate will die because no shields. Depending on the squadmate that dies, it could have an effect on the number of assets received in ME3 and if a character lives or dies. Here's another. Give Cerberus the geth that is found on the derelict reaper. When dealing with the quarians and geth, the geth vi shows up, there's no chance at getting peace, and the geth that was given to Cerberus shows up on Chronos to kill Shepard. Choosing not to recruit Tali is not a renegade option, so that isn’t what I’m talking about here. Giving Cerberus the Geth, while not precisely an example of the “deny yourself future content” result that I said happens most of the time, is still an example of the renegade option being the “wrong” choice that causes everything to be worse than the “right” paragon choice. I did not know about the advantages of killing Wrex, though. That does indeed go against the trend I’ve been described, and I hope more choices like that are in future games!
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Post by themikefest on Feb 26, 2021 23:57:27 GMT
Giving Cerberus the Geth, while not precisely an example of the “deny yourself future content” result that I said happens most of the time, is still an example of the renegade option being the “wrong” choice that causes everything to be worse than the “right” paragon choice. I don't see it as a renegade or wrong choice nor do I see it making everything worse than the paragon choice, as you say.
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Post by Radec on Feb 27, 2021 0:46:08 GMT
Giving Cerberus the Geth, while not precisely an example of the “deny yourself future content” result that I said happens most of the time, is still an example of the renegade option being the “wrong” choice that causes everything to be worse than the “right” paragon choice. I don't see it as a renegade or wrong choice nor do I see it making everything worse than the paragon choice, as you say. In terms of ME3 war assets, selling the geth to Cerberus gives you a max of around ~600 from one side vs around ~1300 from both. Even if you deny the geth to get Reaper code, activating Legion and doing its loyalty quest can give the quarian ~800 war assets instead of ~600 (they take less losses as a result of destroying the heretic geth). Renegade makes out slightly better in the Genophage arc, but getting the Salarians on board should've been worth more to balance the big loss from selling the bot to Cerberus, IMO.
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Post by Warrick on Feb 27, 2021 2:02:16 GMT
I don't think paragon/renegade system will be in ME5. Not only is it harder to do than Andromeda's "yes🤔/yes😀" system, but politics today is a bigger part of people's lives, including the devs. The "humans first" part of ME1 wouldn't be written today as it sounds too reminiscent of Trump's "America first". In ME1, you even get the choice to endorse the Terra Firma candidate in an election. Imagine that today.
I don't think Bioware writers are willing to write lines they disagree with these days.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 27, 2021 2:31:09 GMT
I hope it returns as the MEA system was terrible in comparison. Enough people really missed it that it very well may come back.
I think by ME3 they started to balance out the choices better, ME1 had folded just evil under renegade by the time they got to ME2 and more so ME3 they had refined it more to a pragmatic vs idealist approach. Both in the end got equivalent rewards, using your rachni example the point of having the clone wasn't to say boo you made a bad choice, but they realized a quest of that size only being for people who saved the queen would punish the players.Yeah in this case its worse as the clone will betray you, but some things have to go each way.
Spare that asari scientist in ME1/2 and she gets indoctrinated and kills people in 3, spare balak in bringing down the sky and he may go against you but odds are magic persuasion turns him for you.(I always thought that one was dumb, hes tried to murder millions, you just blew up a system of his he was unreasonable before, now hed be worse)which is roughly balanced.
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Post by helios969 on Feb 27, 2021 8:54:26 GMT
I hope they do bring it back. It was sorely needed in Andromeda...it's part of what made it a vanilla experience. A couple of squadmates in particular needed a good Renegade interrupt in response to their antics.
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Post by helios969 on Feb 27, 2021 9:09:16 GMT
I don't think paragon/renegade system will be in ME5. Not only is it harder to do than Andromeda's "yes🤔/yes😀" system, but politics today is a bigger part of people's lives, including the devs. The "humans first" part of ME1 wouldn't be written today as it sounds too reminiscent of Trump's "America first". In ME1, you even get the choice to endorse the Terra Firma candidate in an election. Imagine that today. I don't think Bioware writers are willing to write lines they disagree with these days. Assuming your assertion is correct, particularly the last part, that would best represent what is wrong with their writing. Good writers are never afraid to approach things from alternative perspectives. If you want authenticity in a created world you need to represent people as they are not how you wish them to be. Besides conflict at every level is a good thing in writing...and being controversial gets people talking about your product...and that's just good marketing. No matter what you do nowadays you'll piss off a segment of society so it's better to just write how ever the hell best fits the world. Let the PR department do whatever damage control is necessary.
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Post by Croatsky on Feb 27, 2021 10:08:09 GMT
No they won't. Namely because I doubt they're going back to Paragon/Renegade choices. They'll almost certainly continue what they've established with DAI and MEA, which is a much better system. Yeah, Paragon/Renegade is just a vestige of past system trying, and badly at it, to implement morality system.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 27, 2021 11:44:55 GMT
I say just ditch morality systems for good. There’s no need for red or blue points applied to our decisions. Whatever the benefits or consequences are should speak for themselves, and I definitely do not want a return of autodialogue that reflects this alignment.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 27, 2021 12:08:15 GMT
I hope they do bring it back. It was sorely needed in Andromeda...it's part of what made it a vanilla experience. A couple of squadmates in particular needed a good Renegade interrupt in response to their antics. I agree. MEA needed more interrupts. I would have added more interrupts in the trilogy as well especially ME3.
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Post by midnightwolf on Feb 27, 2021 12:12:45 GMT
I say just ditch morality systems for good. There’s no need for red or blue points applied to our decisions. Whatever the benefits or consequences are should speak for themselves, and I definitely do not want a return of autodialogue that reflects this alignment. OR auto-dialogue which DOESN'T in any way reflect our character in the way that it conpletely disregarded our Shepards.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 27, 2021 12:21:42 GMT
I hope they do bring it back. It was sorely needed in Andromeda...it's part of what made it a vanilla experience. A couple of squadmates in particular needed a good Renegade interrupt in response to their antics. The interrupt and morality systems don’t really relate to one another. Mass Effect 2 and 3 simply place arbitrary labels on them, and keep the actions hidden, only occasionally telegraphing what action *might* take place, but never being particularly transparent. Like, in Overlord, the Paragon interrupt has Shepard pistol whip Gavin Archer in the face and threaten to shoot him, but it could just as well have been a renegade option since it’s particularly violent. What if you’re a paragon player that didn’t want to smack people around? The method used in Andromeda demonstrates that a timed response can work simply by telling the player what’s going to happen. If the action is violent, like “kill” or “slap”, you don’t need a points system attached to it.
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Post by Croatsky on Feb 27, 2021 13:07:57 GMT
I hope they do bring it back. It was sorely needed in Andromeda...it's part of what made it a vanilla experience. A couple of squadmates in particular needed a good Renegade interrupt in response to their antics. The interrupt and morality systems don’t really relate to one another. Mass Effect 2 and 3 simply place arbitrary labels on them, and keep the actions hidden, only occasionally telegraphing what action *might* take place, but never being particularly transparent. Like, in Overlord, the Paragon interrupt has Shepard pistol whip Gavin Archer in the face and threaten to shoot him, but it could just as well have been a renegade option since it’s particularly violent. What if you’re a paragon player that didn’t want to smack people around? The method used in Andromeda demonstrates that a timed response can work simply by telling the player what’s going to happen. If the action is violent, like “kill” or “slap”, you don’t need a points system attached to it. Yeah, MEA's system was perfect. It's only issue was it was underused.
Additionally, if BioWare goes back to class restricted character over universal class, one thing that would be neat is to have class specific interrupts. Omega DLC, as trash as that DLC is, did have class specific interrupt. However it's only for Engineer class, over a meaningless choice that really only made Renegade choice just pointlessly evil, but it was done at least.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 27, 2021 13:22:26 GMT
The interrupt and morality systems don’t really relate to one another. Mass Effect 2 and 3 simply place arbitrary labels on them, and keep the actions hidden, only occasionally telegraphing what action *might* take place, but never being particularly transparent. Like, in Overlord, the Paragon interrupt has Shepard pistol whip Gavin Archer in the face and threaten to shoot him, but it could just as well have been a renegade option since it’s particularly violent. What if you’re a paragon player that didn’t want to smack people around? The method used in Andromeda demonstrates that a timed response can work simply by telling the player what’s going to happen. If the action is violent, like “kill” or “slap”, you don’t need a points system attached to it. Yeah, MEA's system was perfect. It's only issue was it was underused.
Additionally, if BioWare goes back to class restricted character over universal class, one thing that would be neat is to have class specific interrupts. Omega DLC, as trash as that DLC is, did have class specific interrupt. However it's only for Engineer class, over a meaningless choice that really only made Renegade choice just pointlessly evil, but it was done at least.
I guess the thing that kind of keeps ME in need of some sort of class system is the fact that in the end, it will always boil down to 2 distinct types: biotic and non-biotic, with the only other options essentially being weapon or tech focused skills.
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Post by helios969 on Feb 27, 2021 13:33:46 GMT
I hope they do bring it back. It was sorely needed in Andromeda...it's part of what made it a vanilla experience. A couple of squadmates in particular needed a good Renegade interrupt in response to their antics. The interrupt and morality systems don’t really relate to one another. Mass Effect 2 and 3 simply place arbitrary labels on them, and keep the actions hidden, only occasionally telegraphing what action *might* take place, but never being particularly transparent. Like, in Overlord, the Paragon interrupt has Shepard pistol whip Gavin Archer in the face and threaten to shoot him, but it could just as well have been a renegade option since it’s particularly violent. What if you’re a paragon player that didn’t want to smack people around? The method used in Andromeda demonstrates that a timed response can work simply by telling the player what’s going to happen. If the action is violent, like “kill” or “slap”, you don’t need a points system attached to it. It's true...completely arbitrary...which is why I'd divide it into compassionate/diplomatic and aggressive/tactless...eliminate point systems (which is "pointless" outside Star Wars)...and never grey out responses (which is just dumb). At those special moments you could have simultaneous interrupts to allow the player to chose whether to take a Paragon or Renegade approach...i.e. imploring Kostas to act more professional or yell at him and tell him to pack up his gear (you could always create a situation to re-recruit him later). As someone who enjoys roleplaying different ways, I like having "extreme" differences built in...I really enjoyed DA2's dialogue system (it was just missing interrupts).
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 27, 2021 14:31:08 GMT
No, they won't. Because here's the thing: the renegade choices were always like the dark side choices in KOTOR especially in ME1. For example a human backed/led council makes the other races not trust humanity especially when humanity needs them in ME3. I mean why should they? That isn't bad storytelling that is how people like them will react in the real world. The renegade path is basically telling "You make a bad decision it will always end badly for you." That is the point of the Renegade path. I'm not sure that was the actual design intent. If it is then the manual is lying to us. Aggressive isn't evil. Neither is ruthless. Granted, the manual's lying anyway. "Renegades achieve their goals by any means necessary" is simply untrue; since the game is designed so a Paragon can accomplish anything, the Renegade choice can never be necessary. But this strikes me as more an example of incoherent design rather than any sort of intent. I'm pretty much with the OP here. However, I'm with KaiserShep on the fix. Morality meters are a lousy idea in the first place.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 27, 2021 15:58:38 GMT
The interrupt and morality systems don’t really relate to one another. Mass Effect 2 and 3 simply place arbitrary labels on them, and keep the actions hidden, only occasionally telegraphing what action *might* take place, but never being particularly transparent. Like, in Overlord, the Paragon interrupt has Shepard pistol whip Gavin Archer in the face and threaten to shoot him, but it could just as well have been a renegade option since it’s particularly violent. What if you’re a paragon player that didn’t want to smack people around? The method used in Andromeda demonstrates that a timed response can work simply by telling the player what’s going to happen. If the action is violent, like “kill” or “slap”, you don’t need a points system attached to it. Yeah, MEA's system was perfect. It's only issue was it was underused.
Additionally, if BioWare goes back to class restricted character over universal class, one thing that would be neat is to have class specific interrupts. Omega DLC, as trash as that DLC is, did have class specific interrupt. However it's only for Engineer class, over a meaningless choice that really only made Renegade choice just pointlessly evil, but it was done at least.
The MEA system was total crap, and that is ignoring the terrible writing in dialogue. You don't have to go with a morality bar or something. Renegade/paragon defines mass effect, removing it just made MEA dragon age in space. The core of renegade/paragon is it it a ruthless/pragmatic to a more compassionate/build relations style or handling problems.
Which sort of can be said for what MEA tried, with logic/empathy etc but the scale was 1 to -1, where as renegade/paragon was a scale from 10 to-10. Renegade felt different from paragon in substantive ways, logic vs empathy felt like a slightly different take on it, making Ryder feel like a much more set character in play as their range was virtually non existent. While the massive range of Shepard could make them feel insane if they swung back and forth weirdly, it allowed you to actually create a more defined your Shepard. And for ME I feel that is important, there are discussions about YOUR Shepard, no no cares about YOUR ryder because all the ryders are pretty much alike.
They mainly need to refine p/r a bit more with the neutral options feeling like gradients between thew 10 to -10 scale. Have full renegade -10, mid tier-5, neutral 0, mid tier 5, full paragon 10. It would be interesting if they added in maybe -20 +20 that don't win the scene more than the 10/-10 but had a different feel to them if you leaned into one side consistently, no you can only talk down bob if you have -20 options, but just your -20 option might be funnier.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 27, 2021 16:50:35 GMT
Yeah, MEA's system was perfect. It's only issue was it was underused.
Additionally, if BioWare goes back to class restricted character over universal class, one thing that would be neat is to have class specific interrupts. Omega DLC, as trash as that DLC is, did have class specific interrupt. However it's only for Engineer class, over a meaningless choice that really only made Renegade choice just pointlessly evil, but it was done at least.
The MEA system was total crap, and that is ignoring the terrible writing in dialogue. You don't have to go with a morality bar or something. Renegade/paragon defines mass effect, removing it just made MEA dragon age in space. The core of renegade/paragon is it it a ruthless/pragmatic to a more compassionate/build relations style or handling problems.
Which sort of can be said for what MEA tried, with logic/empathy etc but the scale was 1 to -1, where as renegade/paragon was a scale from 10 to-10. Renegade felt different from paragon in substantive ways, logic vs empathy felt like a slightly different take on it, making Ryder feel like a much more set character in play as their range was virtually non existent. While the massive range of Shepard could make them feel insane if they swung back and forth weirdly, it allowed you to actually create a more defined your Shepard. And for ME I feel that is important, there are discussions about YOUR Shepard, no no cares about YOUR ryder because all the ryders are pretty much alike.
They mainly need to refine p/r a bit more with the neutral options feeling like gradients between thew 10 to -10 scale. Have full renegade -10, mid tier-5, neutral 0, mid tier 5, full paragon 10. It would be interesting if they added in maybe -20 +20 that don't win the scene more than the 10/-10 but had a different feel to them if you leaned into one side consistently, no you can only talk down bob if you have -20 options, but just your -20 option might be funnier.
You say it’s total crap even when divorcing it from the dialogue writing, but that doesn’t make any sense when it’s just your standard dialogue wheel and timed prompts. The wheel can contain plenty of lines of varying intent, and the prompts can be used to trigger just about any action. All the renegade and paragon alignments add is a funnel system to drive players down one of two personalities. Thing is, this is basically auto-fill for its dumbed-down dialogue tree, rather than simply letting the player have full manual control over their character build, like the old coercion stat, or stats that let us specialize in certain types of dialogue. A morality bar is just a superficial element, but with or without it, there’s always a score that keeps check, so regardless of whether or not it’s in the menu, the “bar” always exists. Your problem seems entirely with the dialogue itself, not the system. The Warden, for example, had plenty of options that span across what you might consider to be renegade, neutral and paragon lines, and plenty that were tied behind a dialogue skill check that actually accounted for your character’s perceptiveness and intellect. There was no morality meter to determine how this functioned. It was entirely up to you what kind of character you wanted to be like. My problem with the way Mass Effect implemented it, particularly in 2 and 3, is that if you were too much of an asshole, or too much of a saint, you could be arbitrarily locked out of being mean to some rando, because the auto-fill saw to it that you couldn’t meet the requirements.
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Post by jrpN7 on Feb 27, 2021 17:10:41 GMT
No they won't. Namely because I doubt they're going back to Paragon/Renegade choices. They'll almost certainly continue what they've established with DAI and MEA, which is a much better system. Says who and since when? I don't see BioWare selling MEA dialogue wheels on their store like they do with Paragon/Renegade. Obviously one system had a far more reaching impact. MEA dialogue system made Ryder appear to have four conflicting personalities. If I was working under or with Ryder as a squaddie, I'd be constantly wary of how he/she'd react to literally anything as if Ryder were an unstable kid. Oh wait.No. MEA's system is far inferior. Paragon/Renegade gave Shepard stability in personality and even if you did cross over to the other morality in certain circumstances, it still fit because it was infrequent enough to be considered an extreme situation demanding an extreme response. That said, I would be fine seeing the point system to be removed.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 27, 2021 17:27:17 GMT
At this point going back to Renegade/Paragon would be a major step backwards. The Andromeda system was the second best dialogue system ever.
R/P was supposed to be about different ways of solving issues...but bioware implemented it rather lacklustre in the three games...and it got worse in ME 3. Yes there were times it worked but far too often bioware confused 'renegade' with 'evil'. Plus without it being personality based it missed out on the richness and contrability of Ryder or the DA protags.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 27, 2021 18:22:10 GMT
The MEA system was total crap, and that is ignoring the terrible writing in dialogue. You don't have to go with a morality bar or something. Renegade/paragon defines mass effect, removing it just made MEA dragon age in space. The core of renegade/paragon is it it a ruthless/pragmatic to a more compassionate/build relations style or handling problems.
Which sort of can be said for what MEA tried, with logic/empathy etc but the scale was 1 to -1, where as renegade/paragon was a scale from 10 to-10. Renegade felt different from paragon in substantive ways, logic vs empathy felt like a slightly different take on it, making Ryder feel like a much more set character in play as their range was virtually non existent. While the massive range of Shepard could make them feel insane if they swung back and forth weirdly, it allowed you to actually create a more defined your Shepard. And for ME I feel that is important, there are discussions about YOUR Shepard, no no cares about YOUR ryder because all the ryders are pretty much alike.
They mainly need to refine p/r a bit more with the neutral options feeling like gradients between thew 10 to -10 scale. Have full renegade -10, mid tier-5, neutral 0, mid tier 5, full paragon 10. It would be interesting if they added in maybe -20 +20 that don't win the scene more than the 10/-10 but had a different feel to them if you leaned into one side consistently, no you can only talk down bob if you have -20 options, but just your -20 option might be funnier.
You say it’s total crap even when divorcing it from the dialogue writing, but that doesn’t make any sense when it’s just your standard dialogue wheel and timed prompts. The wheel can contain plenty of lines of varying intent, and the prompts can be used to trigger just about any action. All the renegade and paragon alignments add is a funnel system to drive players down one of two personalities. Thing is, this is basically auto-fill for its dumbed-down dialogue tree, rather than simply letting the player have full manual control over their character build, like the old coercion stat, or stats that let us specialize in certain types of dialogue. A morality bar is just a superficial element, but with or without it, there’s always a score that keeps check, so regardless of whether or not it’s in the menu, the “bar” always exists. Your problem seems entirely with the dialogue itself, not the system. The Warden, for example, had plenty of options that span across what you might consider to be renegade, neutral and paragon lines, and plenty that were tied behind a dialogue skill check that actually accounted for your character’s perceptiveness and intellect. There was no morality meter to determine how this functioned. It was entirely up to you what kind of character you wanted to be like. My problem with the way Mass Effect implemented it, particularly in 2 and 3, is that if you were too much of an asshole, or too much of a saint, you could be arbitrarily locked out of being mean to some rando, because the auto-fill saw to it that you couldn’t meet the requirements. No because I believe the intent of the dialogue wheel of empathy, logic was to create a set character, and while it can sort of fill the role choices based on a personality quirk is different than core philosophies. All of these are just dialogue wheels, there is no difference in that. Whether its color coded with red/blue or has some dumb ass symbol meaning logic its a dialogue wheel. The writing was terrible on top of that in that the lines were terrible, the character was lame etc. But the mechanic set up was a fairly narrow range of personality types creating a more set character. Sure you could label the same things and go more extreme with logic being Vulcan, empathy being weepy etc, but I suspect you'd choose different names for them if doing that.
And as I said you don't need a bar filling up for it to be a renegade/paragon system, drop the bar just make them choices you can make. If you are going to have checks have them based on something else not how often you did renegade that is fine. But renegade/paragon is a different style of decision making as opposed to personality types its focusing on a more drive or core motivation oriented. I think making the core decisions more philosophy based instead of personality type is a deeper and more entertaining system. It hasn't always been implemented great but the core concept is superior to the more DA style. But its a core reason why people will talk about their Shepard and have no real my Ryder discussions, and even in DA the my Warden or whatever is more about their race or class than their philosophy which is imo more superficial.
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