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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 24, 2021 22:17:09 GMT
(I tried to write something sensible but it ended up being a pile of cobblers)TL;DR BioWare will be damned whatever they do, but if the characters are interesting, less people will mind.
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Post by river82 on Apr 24, 2021 22:23:45 GMT
Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Girly-girl, hates what she has to do. Loves fashion, boys and tries really hard to go on dates and have a social life. She still kicks ass when it comes to vampires and demons. I was thinking more along the lines of mothers. For some reason women are demonized if they choose to be mothers or stay at home wives. The most important job in the world is to be a parent. Because if anyone has ever dealt with children they can be little shits. A patents job is to turn that little shit into a good human being but nowadays we live in a world that denigrates motherhood. How about a story about a strong female character that is a mother, a story that shows how important they are, and how most of us are the people we are today because of them. There are plenty of stories about mothers. One plus One for instance is a story about a single mother trying to find a way to pay for her daughter to go to a great school. Little Fires Everywhere is a novel and a mini-series about mothers and how far they'll go to protect their children. However what I suspect you're talking about are stories in science fiction and fantasy and here we hit a bit of a problem. Science fiction likes to deal with upcoming technological issues or focus on futuristic societies. You can write a story about parents here but you're probably missing your target audience. Fantasy stories, until just recently, have been big epic fights with dragons. Recently we've had an influx of urban fantasy with smaller stories and maybe we'll get more small scale stories about families and what not. So there's not too many small, family oriented dramas in science fiction and fantasy because you're kinda missing a big part of your target audience if you write them in those genres? As for games, well. A story that glorifies parenthood, how important they are, how they shape our lives, probably wouldn't have much action in it. There are single fathers portrayed in games but they kinda don't do the themes you outline very well? The Last of Us had a single guardian but not really the themes you wanted. Because most video games are about violence, and the ones that aren't are either sims, sports games, or adventures. So you'd need to make an adventure game, and that's pretty risky, because up until just recently that genre has been deader than a dodo (other than puzzle games I guess) and even now don't as a whole do that well. I guess the TL;DR summary would be there's stories about parenthood out there, but you're probably looking in the medium and or the wrong genres? And it has little to do with the world
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Post by eternalambiguity on Apr 24, 2021 22:34:43 GMT
Mass Effect Andromeda, such as it was, at least established that BioWare can now have our character look biologically related to other NPC’s. DA2? And not just "looking biologically related" but, relevant to the point, the mother of the MC.
For my contribution to the main topic, I'm mixed but grew up primarily among a bunch of middle class white people. I don't know of any stereotypes about mixed folk, apart from not really existing in most media. I thought whats-his-face in Andromeda was fine. I think black female characters get the short end of the stick a bit in that they're expected to either be sassy (Isabella - not black I know but a PoC) or ice queens (Vivienne).
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 24, 2021 22:45:35 GMT
Mass Effect Andromeda, such as it was, at least established that BioWare can now have our character look biologically related to other NPC’s. DA2? And not just "looking biologically related" but, relevant to the point, the mother of the MC. Oh yeah, forgot about that. Even Gamlen changed based on what you chose, that son of a bitch.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 23:03:43 GMT
I was thinking more along the lines of mothers. For some reason women are demonized if they choose to be mothers or stay at home wives. The most important job in the world is to be a parent. Because if anyone has ever dealt with children they can be little shits. A patents job is to turn that little shit into a good human being but nowadays we live in a world that denigrates motherhood. How about a story about a strong female character that is a mother, a story that shows how important they are, and how most of us are the people we are today because of them. There are plenty of stories about mothers. One plus One for instance is a story about a single mother trying to find a way to pay for her daughter to go to a great school. Little Fires Everywhere is a novel and a mini-series about mothers and how far they'll go to protect their children. However what I suspect you're talking about are stories in science fiction and fantasy and here we hit a bit of a problem. Science fiction likes to deal with upcoming technological issues or focus on futuristic societies. You can write a story about parents here but you're probably missing your target audience. Fantasy stories, until just recently, have been big epic fights with dragons. Recently we've had an influx of urban fantasy with smaller stories and maybe we'll get more small scale stories about families and what not. So there's not too many small, family oriented dramas in science fiction and fantasy because you're kinda missing a big part of your target audience if you write them in those genres? As for games, well. A story that glorifies parenthood, how important they are, how they shape our lives, probably wouldn't have much action in it. There are single fathers portrayed in games but they kinda don't do the themes you outline very well? The Last of Us had a single guardian but not really the themes you wanted. Because most video games are about violence, and the ones that aren't are either sims, sports games, or adventures. So you'd need to make an adventure game, and that's pretty risky, because up until just recently that genre has been deader than a dodo (other than puzzle games I guess) and even now don't as a whole do that well. I guess the TL;DR summary would be there's stories about parenthood out there, but you're probably looking in the medium and or the wrong genres? And it has little to do with the world Amazing to me people can read words without seeing them or interpret it as how they felt reading what I said. First I said I don’t understand why women are only considered strong when they have traditionally male characteristics. My mom choose to be a stay at home wife and raise kids. I want women to have the ability to do whatever they want. Be in military or at home. I also said in a few posts back that there very well may be stories like this but they arent as celebrated as the “ass kicker” female.
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Post by river82 on Apr 24, 2021 23:50:09 GMT
I also said in a few posts back that there very well may be stories like this but they arent as celebrated as the “ass kicker” female. Because those roles are the norm and there were, historically, few kick-ass women stories. There are LOTS of stories out there about motherhood or stories where women portray single mothers. So people celebrate women portraying more roles they historically haven't portrayed very much. It's a natural reaction.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 23:52:26 GMT
I also said in a few posts back that there very well may be stories like this but they arent as celebrated as the “ass kicker” female. Because those roles are the norm and there were, historically, few kick-ass women stories. There are LOTS of stories out there about motherhood or stories where women portray single mothers. So people celebrate women portraying more roles they historically haven't portrayed very much. It's a natural reaction. Its not the norm now is my point. Maybe we can celebrate both?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 25, 2021 4:33:08 GMT
First I said I don’t understand why women are only considered strong when they have traditionally male characteristics. We've had characters like this though. Samantha in ME3, Kelly in ME2, Suvi and Lexi in MEA, Josephine in DAI, and so on. Nobody would call these characters weak, and yet they have traditionally female or neutral roles. Companions are harder, since a lot is them traveling with you across a country, continent, star cluster, or galaxy thus can't really be stay at home.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2021 4:55:55 GMT
First I said I don’t understand why women are only considered strong when they have traditionally male characteristics. We've had characters like this though. Samantha in ME3, Kelly in ME2, Suvi and Lexi in MEA, Josephine in DAI, and so on. Nobody would call these characters weak, and yet they have traditionally female or neutral roles. Companions are harder, since a lot is them traveling with you across a country, continent, star cluster, or galaxy thus can't really be stay at home. just because no one would call them weak doesnt automatically make them "strong". not once have I ever heard any of them being shinning examples of strong female characters. still didnt answer my previous question
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Post by sassafrassa on Apr 29, 2021 2:52:13 GMT
That I need to be lectured by POC, Marxists, or feminists about something or other. Not sure that ever happened in the Mass Effect trilogy though. It was never super preachy.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2021 14:24:30 GMT
That I need to be lectured by POC, Marxists, or feminists about something or other. Not sure that ever happened in the Mass Effect trilogy though. It was never super preachy. Preach brother!
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Post by Radec on May 2, 2021 16:43:31 GMT
That I need to be lectured by POC, Marxists, or feminists about something or other. Not sure that ever happened in the Mass Effect trilogy though. It was never super preachy. The starbrat's a bit like a Marxist, no? Waxes cod philosophy about some arbitrary distinction between two classes of beings that must inevitably put them in conflict because.....it says so? Despite no more evidence of inter class conflict being inevitable than intra-class conflict Passes off its ontological social theories as hard science (without actually providing any evidence for its claims). Then comes up with reprehensible solutions orders of magnitudes more lethal than the supposed (manufactured) problem it's trying to solve. Definitely lectures you, too. Despite being the dumbest thing in the room (even dumber than the two dead guys down stairs). Sounds like every commie I've ever met.
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Post by turianlannister on May 3, 2021 0:58:04 GMT
Within Shepard's games, they can die in various ways. So I having a new character in the same vein as Miranda and Oriana. In she has the overall intelligence, leadership and charisma to run Cerberus properly when T.I.M. passes away. Also with my soft reboot idea that you will see that T.I.M. moving much of Cerberus Assets under her care due to him hearing the Reapers again. It will be more of an sensible Cerberus Storyline without the Second Coming of Sith Empire via Star Forge within the ME3 Cerberus. Or themikefest likes to call them Keystone Cops. Seems fitting for a stereotype thread but I distinctly remember when the polls happened to pick the default fem shep look and blond fem shep won, then there was a out cry because blond makes her a dumb bimbo as all blond women are dumb bimbos and bioware said, you know you are right, do over.
So I don't think smart blond women are allowed by the fan base.
Blonde won because of her hairstyle not her hair colour, her hairstyle was the closest to original default femshep from ME1 and ME2, I saw nothing about people saying blonde made her a dumb bimbo
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Post by turianlannister on May 3, 2021 1:01:16 GMT
Everyone deserves a knight in shining armor. Alistair would have been a great same-sex romance. IIRC Cullen was supposed to be bisexual? No. There's a mod for that. It's imperfect, though, since the male Inquisitor (human, at least) is taller than Cullen and the kissing looks bizarre. The kissing looks hilarious if the game is modded to unracegate Cullen's romance and you romance him as a female Qunari, he ends up with his face in her tits
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Post by Guardian on May 3, 2021 2:10:21 GMT
Seems fitting for a stereotype thread but I distinctly remember when the polls happened to pick the default fem shep look and blond fem shep won, then there was a out cry because blond makes her a dumb bimbo as all blond women are dumb bimbos and bioware said, you know you are right, do over.
So I don't think smart blond women are allowed by the fan base.
Blonde won because of her hairstyle not her hair colour, her hairstyle was the closest to original default femshep from ME1 and ME2, I saw nothing about people saying blonde made her a dumb bimbo I remember that - a lot of the comments said yes to the hair, but did want to decide the final color. That's how I voted for it - I mean, I didn't mind blonde either, but yeah, I was looking more at the style. A lot of us were hoping to get to decide the color as well.
But yes, some did outcry that being "blonde made her a bimbo", which, I will laugh at and argue against. Hell, I do wish we could customize the color of the default hair, just to have the option.
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Post by ahglock on May 3, 2021 3:32:49 GMT
Seems fitting for a stereotype thread but I distinctly remember when the polls happened to pick the default fem shep look and blond fem shep won, then there was a out cry because blond makes her a dumb bimbo as all blond women are dumb bimbos and bioware said, you know you are right, do over.
So I don't think smart blond women are allowed by the fan base.
Blonde won because of her hairstyle not her hair colour, her hairstyle was the closest to original default femshep from ME1 and ME2, I saw nothing about people saying blonde made her a dumb bimbo Almost every comment of why they need to change was because blond=bimbo. It doesn't matter why she won, though I don't think her hairstyle was any different than the other options it was just color differences. What matters is why they changed. Bigotry, that's the reason, bigots came out in force and bioware caved to them.
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Post by sassafrassa on May 3, 2021 4:27:49 GMT
That I need to be lectured by POC, Marxists, or feminists about something or other. Not sure that ever happened in the Mass Effect trilogy though. It was never super preachy. Preach brother! I didn't say anything about batarians. I like batarians.
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Post by turianlannister on May 3, 2021 20:28:29 GMT
Blonde won because of her hairstyle not her hair colour, her hairstyle was the closest to original default femshep from ME1 and ME2, I saw nothing about people saying blonde made her a dumb bimbo Almost every comment of why they need to change was because blond=bimbo. It doesn't matter why she won, though I don't think her hairstyle was any different than the other options it was just color differences. What matters is why they changed. Bigotry, that's the reason, bigots came out in force and bioware caved to them. Abloo
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Post by Spectr61 on May 4, 2021 12:13:07 GMT
How about a bunch of anti-stereotypes, of all types(hah!), in a parody of political correctness?
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Post by Shinobu on May 6, 2021 1:40:36 GMT
That anyone right of Joseph Stalin is an evil human being that is racist, sexist, misogynistic, ect. Can you give some examples in games?
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Post by Shinobu on May 6, 2021 1:50:57 GMT
I'd like to see a female character that isnt the generic "strong" female type we have been shown for the past 50 years. Why is a female only considered strong if she shows traditionally male characteristics? I love women, I love when they embrace their femininity. No one has the skill or the balls to actually write a strong female character that shows traditional female characteristics. In the early 80's women weren't even allowed to hold a gun in movies. They were always in the refrigerator or in the trunk of the car. Then we got Ripley and Sarah Connor, but they were portrayed as having masculine traits, although Ripley in Aliens was an awesome Rambo Mom. Finally we got Buffy, Scully, and Kaylee Frye, who were allowed to kick butt and still be feminine.
In some ways anime is more progressive because the screaming girl in the pink robot can save the day but also dress in frilly clothes and bake delicious cookies.
The reason no "traditionally female" heroines are seen in games is that they are still catering to a 18-25 year old male demographic and game companies don't think that taking the kids to soccer practice is enthralling storytelling.
Have a mom superhero:
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Post by Shinobu on May 6, 2021 2:22:06 GMT
(I tried to write something sensible but it ended up being a pile of cobblers)TL;DR BioWare will be damned whatever they do, but if the characters are interesting, less people will mind. I think the more individuals they have of each group, the less they can be accused of bias. The problem comes when there's only one person of that group -- then those single individuals are the "representative" of that group and any stereotypical traits are picked apart.
This is an interesting discussion of "staying in your lane" and only writing about your own group and "trying to be inclusive" by writing about people not in your group and how that can lead to backlash. I've linked to the end of the video because probably no one here has read the books that are being talked about.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 2:39:47 GMT
I'd like to see a female character that isnt the generic "strong" female type we have been shown for the past 50 years. Why is a female only considered strong if she shows traditionally male characteristics? I love women, I love when they embrace their femininity. No one has the skill or the balls to actually write a strong female character that shows traditional female characteristics. In the early 80's women weren't even allowed to hold a gun in movies. They were always in the refrigerator or in the trunk of the car. Then we got Ripley and Sarah Connor, but they were portrayed as having masculine traits, although Ripley in Aliens was an awesome Rambo Mom. Finally we got Buffy, Scully, and Kaylee Frye, who were allowed to kick butt and still be feminine.
In some ways anime is more progressive because the screaming girl in the pink robot can save the day but also dress in frilly clothes and bake delicious cookies.
The reason no "traditionally female" heroines are seen in games is that they are still catering to a 18-25 year old male demographic and game companies don't think that taking the kids to soccer practice is enthralling storytelling.
Have a mom superhero:
Ripley was in 1979 Alien.
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Post by Shinobu on May 6, 2021 2:44:53 GMT
I've also found this video by Jesse Gender interesting. It's about video games and sexual identity in Black Mirror's Striking Vipers episode. She references Dragon Age and Mass Effect.
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Post by Shinobu on May 6, 2021 2:46:08 GMT
In the early 80's women weren't even allowed to hold a gun in movies. They were always in the refrigerator or in the trunk of the car. Then we got Ripley and Sarah Connor, but they were portrayed as having masculine traits, although Ripley in Aliens was an awesome Rambo Mom. Finally we got Buffy, Scully, and Kaylee Frye, who were allowed to kick butt and still be feminine.
In some ways anime is more progressive because the screaming girl in the pink robot can save the day but also dress in frilly clothes and bake delicious cookies.
The reason no "traditionally female" heroines are seen in games is that they are still catering to a 18-25 year old male demographic and game companies don't think that taking the kids to soccer practice is enthralling storytelling.
Have a mom superhero:
Ripley was in 1979 Alien. Sure, but she wasn't a mom until 1986's Aliens.
The closest thing to a suburban mom hero was Kate Jackson in the 80's TV series Scarecrow and Mrs. King.
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