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Post by SofaJockey on May 6, 2021 9:34:08 GMT
Sure, but she wasn't a mom until 1986's Aliens. She was already a mom in 'Alien'. When she woke in 'Aliens' she was keen to know about her daughter (extended edition covers it). Newt becomes a 'stand-in' daughter, but Riply already had a child. Her daughter, Amanda Ripley features in the game - Alien Isolation. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Ripley_(character)(but I'm likely getting off the plot)
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on May 6, 2021 12:07:31 GMT
That we are all drunkards! ... wait theres no Finns in ME games
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 21:50:21 GMT
Ripley was in 1979 Alien. Sure, but she wasn't a mom until 1986's Aliens. The closest thing to a suburban mom hero was Kate Jackson in the 80's TV series Scarecrow and Mrs. King.
The point I was making about Ripley was when you said in the 80s women werent allowed to hold a gun. This is false Barbarella was in the 60s and she was played by Jane Fonda as space adventurer, using guns. My whole point has been it seems women are only considered strong if they show traditional male characteristics. That anyone right of Joseph Stalin is an evil human being that is racist, sexist, misogynistic, ect. Can you give some examples in games? As far as this goes, I was more talking about how most media is trending this way, as far as games? I havent played a lot of new games tell you the truth, mostly its ME3MP or FTL, with some sprinkling of a few others, but I know death stranding had political social commentary about brexit and drumpth.
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Post by Shinobu on May 7, 2021 0:02:25 GMT
Sure, but she wasn't a mom until 1986's Aliens. She was already a mom in 'Alien'. When she woke in 'Aliens' she was keen to know about her daughter (extended edition covers it). Newt becomes a 'stand-in' daughter, but Riply already had a child. Her daughter, Amanda Ripley features in the game - Alien Isolation. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Ripley_(character)(but I'm likely getting off the plot) You're right, I should have been more specific. I don't think it was made explicit in Alien that Ripley had a daughter. IIRC that plot point wasn't written until Aliens, and the scene where Ripley finds out her daughter died of old age while she was asleep was cut out of the movie.
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Post by Shinobu on May 7, 2021 0:10:41 GMT
That we are all drunkards! ... wait theres no Finns in ME games I thought you were all Moomins.
It would be cool to see Finns in ME. What is a typical Finnish last name?
The only word I know in Finnish is kiitos.
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Post by Shinobu on May 7, 2021 0:44:14 GMT
Sure, but she wasn't a mom until 1986's Aliens. The closest thing to a suburban mom hero was Kate Jackson in the 80's TV series Scarecrow and Mrs. King.
The point I was making about Ripley was when you said in the 80s women werent allowed to hold a gun. This is false Barbarella was in the 60s and she was played by Jane Fonda as space adventurer, using guns. My whole point has been it seems women are only considered strong if they show traditional male characteristics. Can you give some examples in games? As far as this goes, I was more talking about how most media is trending this way, as far as games? I havent played a lot of new games tell you the truth, mostly its ME3MP or FTL, with some sprinkling of a few others, but I know death stranding had political social commentary about brexit and drumpth. Yes, Princess Leia also held a gun in the 70's and 80's, but most women, especially in "real life" settings didn't do that in media apart from Bond girls. In fact, in the 80's I made it a priority to go to any movie where the female lead held a gun because it was not common. There was Terminator (1984), Aliens (1986), La Femme Nikita (1990) and that was about it. Thelma & Louise came out in 1991. Hong Kong cinema had more kickass women like Maggie Cheung and Michelle Yeoh, but they were making movies in the 90s.
Our society seems to equate strength with masculinity. It's limiting, sure. I'm not against seeing nurturing women and men in games, but we probably won't get a lot of them in action roleplaying games because action is currently equated with violence.
A strong woman who doesn't hold a gun is Holly in Die Hard.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on May 7, 2021 6:31:48 GMT
That we are all drunkards! ... wait theres no Finns in ME games I thought you were all Moomins.
It would be cool to see Finns in ME. What is a typical Finnish last name?
The only word I know in Finnish is kiitos.
Ole hyvä. Most of us look like moomins Korhonen, Virtanen, Mäkinen, Nieminen and Mäkelä - in that order. I'm none of those though.
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Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
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Post by helios969 on May 7, 2021 8:25:27 GMT
The point I was making about Ripley was when you said in the 80s women werent allowed to hold a gun. This is false Barbarella was in the 60s and she was played by Jane Fonda as space adventurer, using guns. My whole point has been it seems women are only considered strong if they show traditional male characteristics. As far as this goes, I was more talking about how most media is trending this way, as far as games? I havent played a lot of new games tell you the truth, mostly its ME3MP or FTL, with some sprinkling of a few others, but I know death stranding had political social commentary about brexit and drumpth. Yes, Princess Leia also held a gun in the 70's and 80's, but most women, especially in "real life" settings didn't do that in media apart from Bond girls. In fact, in the 80's I made it a priority to go to any movie where the female lead held a gun because it was not common. There was Terminator (1984), Aliens (1986), La Femme Nikita (1990) and that was about it. Thelma & Louise came out in 1991. Hong Kong cinema had more kickass women like Maggie Cheung and Michelle Yeoh, but they were making movies in the 90s.
Our society seems to equate strength with masculinity. It's limiting, sure. I'm not against seeing nurturing women and men in games, but we probably won't get a lot of them in action roleplaying games because action is currently equated with violence.
A strong woman who doesn't hold a gun is Holly in Die Hard.
Well, I'm guilty as charged. We're of similar age I think and I remember growing up admiring strong female role models...generally women who "kicked ass"...of which there were very few. I still remember having a crush on Angie Dickenson in Police Woman when I was like 5 or 6. Being a teen in the 80's sucked because chicks my age were lame...into all that girly crap. Probably why I was "dating" women twice my age...also probably influenced by The Graduate.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 1:05:26 GMT
Have any of you watched Raised by Wolves? Mother is definitely not traditional, but she has traditional characteristics. I love this show. Much better parents than I ever had, gotta love Father's jokes
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 1:12:53 GMT
The point I was making about Ripley was when you said in the 80s women werent allowed to hold a gun. This is false Barbarella was in the 60s and she was played by Jane Fonda as space adventurer, using guns. My whole point has been it seems women are only considered strong if they show traditional male characteristics. As far as this goes, I was more talking about how most media is trending this way, as far as games? I havent played a lot of new games tell you the truth, mostly its ME3MP or FTL, with some sprinkling of a few others, but I know death stranding had political social commentary about brexit and drumpth. Yes, Princess Leia also held a gun in the 70's and 80's, but most women, especially in "real life" settings didn't do that in media apart from Bond girls. In fact, in the 80's I made it a priority to go to any movie where the female lead held a gun because it was not common. There was Terminator (1984), Aliens (1986), La Femme Nikita (1990) and that was about it. Thelma & Louise came out in 1991. Hong Kong cinema had more kickass women like Maggie Cheung and Michelle Yeoh, but they were making movies in the 90s.
Our society seems to equate strength with masculinity. It's limiting, sure. I'm not against seeing nurturing women and men in games, but we probably won't get a lot of them in action roleplaying games because action is currently equated with violence.
A strong woman who doesn't hold a gun is Holly in Die Hard.
Yes, and I think you nailed the head on my take with that statement. I am fighting for femininity. Masculinity and femininity are two completely different things and I believe we need both in this world but as you said our society only equates being strong with masculinity. I wouldnt call either one stronger than the other, maybe in strict terms of physicality then yes I would say masculine is "strong" but again that is only in physical as in muscle. I want femininity to be just as celebrated as masculinity.
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Post by Polka Dot on May 8, 2021 16:01:49 GMT
Well as a female I've felt fairly represented in games. I will say if we get a female character that's badass for the sake of being badass I will be majorly annoyed. There's a reason why I disliked captain marvel but loved the female representation in the madolorian. I shouldn't be told a character is awesome AND apart of "this group." I should see a character first and acknowledge by myself that they are apart of that group and awesome. I feel like most people regardless of their life and views would agree. That said I would love to reverse the retcon to asari gender that ME:A made. They are unisex so I find it difficult to believe they would also form norms based off of, traditionally, gender binary in relation to sex. It felt really shoe horned to add it in like that but maybe someone who came into the series with ME:A would disagree on that point. The asari retcon was ridiculous. It came out of nowhere. No context of any sort. No reason. I mean, come on, they look like women by practically any standard. It's too pushy, but mostly it's inconsistent. I dunno. Aethyta makes it pretty clear that anthropomorphic bags o' dicks take issue with asari referring to themselves as fathers. We call their stages Maiden, Matron, Matriarch - all female terms, but that's using our language and culture. Asari have their own (filtered through translators for our benefit), and as a monogendered species, we don't really know exactly how their gender concepts would translate (if indeed they have any) without our cultural assumptions interfering with our interpretation. In any case, I don't find it especially difficult to accept the idea that an asari might assume what we might consider a male gender role (e.g. father) and prefer the associated pronouns. It's entirely possible that that's all there is to it.
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Post by General Mahad on May 9, 2021 20:30:52 GMT
Next to Germans, my ethnicity has been bullet meat since the start of the Cold War.
And I love it.
I don’t care how we get treated as long as we appear in media.
Shame some can’t separate entertainment from real life.
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Post by burningcherry on May 9, 2021 21:38:28 GMT
As a Slav, I want my existence to be acknowledged in SF. OT wasn't that bad but Andromeda really failed at inclusion.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 9, 2021 23:43:19 GMT
Have any of you watched Raised by Wolves? Mother is definitely not traditional, but she has traditional characteristics. I love this show. Much better parents than I ever had, gotta love Father's jokes Father's my absolute favorite character in that show. I wish we had a companion like him.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 17:55:34 GMT
@natinthehat - watch that show, at least 3 episodes (it starts slow, but it grew on me quickly but it needs a fair chance).
Tell me what you think of Mother?
She is nurturing, loving, kind, and will Banshee scream until everything in her blast radius explodes into droplets. She is also superior in every way, and yet somehow Father is the children's favorite. This bothers her.
I don't want to spoiler any more, but I actually think she's an interesting case for what you're onto here.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 10, 2021 18:04:24 GMT
As a Slav, I want my existence to be acknowledged in SF. OT wasn't that bad but Andromeda really failed at inclusion. I don't care to see my people included, in fact I prefer we be excluded. It is immersion breaking.
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Post by phoray on May 11, 2021 1:12:51 GMT
Female Shepard was devoid of any emotion outside of over the top sexual overtures that made me cringe until ME3. When she was finally allowed to start feeling stressed out, speak about it to Liara. Crying about Thane was also 👌.
I echo the other comments that a badass woman doesn't have to exhibit the toxic masculine trait of burying all their emotions or flirting with all the finesse of a sailor fresh off the boat.
DAI allowed some great Female Leadership without being 100% dedicated to robot soldier stoicism. The Inquisitor can complain to Cullen and can also lose their shit and cuss in Trespasser. Can sound like they're on the verge of crying. Then put themselves together and head back out there. So it's not "Bioware" is incapable, and I've always been weirded out how the teams don't have more writing overlap.
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Post by phoray on May 11, 2021 1:18:55 GMT
I guess what is immersion breaking about racial stereotypes in Mass Effect to me, is that I've always seen the future where we travel to other worlds, that the boundaries between countries become thinner. How can there be a stereotypical Japanese person if everyone can instantaneously travel to another country and why even keep strong cultural boundaries outside of Human vs Turian once you know aliens exist?
Tomatoes are considered hand in hand with Italian food but they didn't exist in Italy until a few hundred years ago. A few hundred years in the future, why would ramen = asian? Especially after cuisines from other planets get introduced? Why doesn't Japan become obsessed with Turian food as a culture, and leave the ramen to those weird traditionalists? I guess that's not the futurism the writers want to play with
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Post by jrpN7 on May 11, 2021 14:09:58 GMT
I guess what is immersion breaking about racial stereotypes in Mass Effect to me, is that I've always seen the future where we travel to other worlds, that the boundaries between countries become thinner. How can there be a stereotypical Japanese person if everyone can instantaneously travel to another country and why even keep strong cultural boundaries outside of Human vs Turian once you know aliens exist? Tomatoes are considered hand in hand with Italian food but they didn't exist in Italy until a few hundred years ago. A few hundred years in the future, why would ramen = asian? Especially after cuisines from other planets get introduced? Why doesn't Japan become obsessed with Turian food as a culture, and leave the ramen to those weird traditionalists? I guess that's not the futurism the writers want to play with This is true. To aliens, humans aren't going to be or at least shouldn't be too distinguishable other than there's some white ones, black ones and brown ones. Just like how I noticed some asari appear more green than blue but I don't know much beyond that or care. So ideally Japanese food will be synonymous with Italian food as "human food" In the Citadel DLC during the sushi restaurant, I thought there was some background chatter from an asari saying how curious this "human food" was- it was nice to hear. Obviously an asari isn't going to bother with human cultural intricacies and say "Japanese".
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Post by wright1978 on May 11, 2021 17:22:43 GMT
Female Shepard was devoid of any emotion outside of over the top sexual overtures that made me cringe until ME3. When she was finally allowed to start feeling stressed out, speak about it to Liara. Crying about Thane was also 👌. I echo the other comments that a badass woman doesn't have to exhibit the toxic masculine trait of burying all their emotions or flirting with all the finesse of a sailor fresh off the boat. DAI allowed some great Female Leadership without being 100% dedicated to robot soldier stoicism. The Inquisitor can complain to Cullen and can also lose their shit and cuss in Trespasser. Can sound like they're on the verge of crying. Then put themselves together and head back out there. So it's not "Bioware" is incapable, and I've always been weirded out how the teams don't have more writing overlap.
Well i thought railroaded emotion of ME3's autos-shep was one of the things i disliked most beyond the ending. Give me brick shep of Me1 and me2 any day.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on May 12, 2021 3:14:50 GMT
In any case, I don't find it especially difficult to accept the idea that an asari might assume what we might consider a male gender role (e.g. father) and prefer the associated pronouns. It's entirely possible that that's all there is to it. Seriously disagree. Any asari can fill the role of mother or father at any time. Bang an alien chick? You're a dad (who gives birth to the daughter). Bang an alien dude? You're a mom. The "role" only has any relevance when it's two asari and we know that's frowned on.
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Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
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Post by helios969 on May 12, 2021 7:13:24 GMT
Have any of you watched Raised by Wolves? Mother is definitely not traditional, but she has traditional characteristics. I love this show. Much better parents than I ever had, gotta love Father's jokes Weak ending to the first season but otherwise loved the show. The interplay between Mother and Father is superb. I would recommend it to anyone into binge-watching shows.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 12, 2021 7:33:10 GMT
The interplay between Mother and Father is superb Was there a Fallout?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
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Post by helios969 on May 12, 2021 8:22:48 GMT
The interplay between Mother and Father is superb Was there a Fallout? You could say that. Have you watched it?
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 12, 2021 8:23:57 GMT
You could say that. Have you watched it? No, I was too busy making Interplay puns.
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