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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 20, 2021 21:56:10 GMT
Yea, I think that's what Temporal Vanguardian means. Well, I for one don't have as much trouble with a kind of re-interpretation as I wrote before. I can see how it would be difficult not to change anything. And honestly, even if they change the gender of Gaal (and I agree with him that the girl is most likely Gaal's equivalent in the series), at least from what I do remember of the books, I don't see much of a problem with it.They obviously wouldn't have to do it but I don't see anything particularly negative or plot-disturbing about it either.
But then again, I disagree with the notion that adaptations always need to adhere to the source material as closely as possible. I already know the source material after all and I can always go back and read it if i like. With the adaptation, I am to an extent also curious to see what interpretation the show runners take on it.
Just in case don't want to read a wall of text I will condense into 4 issues: Issue 1: Yes. That is what I mean. What insipid fool thought it would be a good thing to have a "newbie" portray Gaal? Look at her IMDB -if that horrid site is to be believed -Just two movies under her belt. And as far as I am concerned not even good ones. One isn't even out yet but sounds like a propaganda indoctrination movie. The other I have heard referred to as Lord of the Flies in space.
Though horribly done and nothing like that movie I doubt I would understand the plot behind it -if I even were to watch it.
Issue 2:
While gender swapping may not seem that bad of a plot-point issue to you... To me however it opens the genetic bomb: In my opinion they will make Gaal somehow related to Saldon. Be it daughter, wife, younger sister or something else. They better not mess with Dors Venabili and leave her alone though.
It has been done before. Never good path and I see it coming.
If they see this and avoid this -then bravo. Yet I can just feel that itch heading this way and I don't like it.
Issue 3:
The old story of Icarus has validity here: "Venture to close to the sun and you burn". Well it implies the opposite: Venture to far from your root material and you will get burned as well.
The phrase I dread hearing in any context:"Well we have ventured this far... guess we can go a little further."
This has caused some horrid disasters with book-to-media in the past. The best train wreck is that 2018 Mortal Engines movie. The first half of the movie is "close" -not dead on accurate but close to the book. After they get flung off the platform -the movie goes off the rails into stupidity and idiocy!
The best accurate book to tv/movie I have seen is a toss up between Lord of the Rings and Chronicles of Narnia. Issue 4:
Not to mention not everyone is going to know the source material that watches it and may take the show as gospel.
The thing I dread is someone calling Asimov a liar against his own work! I didn't ever think I would see the day where Asimov would be turning in his grave.
My apologies for my brusqueness. I am an avid... no devoted... no I am an Obsessed fan of Asimov's Foundation series.
I read my first when I was 12 and I read every single one in the series thereafter.
Well, fair enough. I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I see the final show and they really muck it up. But to me, that's going to be judged on how well the show works, rather then how much it deviates from the books (and if people do what your concern in issue 4 is, well then I'll just tell them to go read the book, no big deal IMO).
I do agree on Mortal Engines even without ever having read the book. A friend of mine went to see it without knowing anything about it mainly because we wanted to see a movie more than anything else and yea, it's true, from the time they fell off the platform it got seriously weird (but also quite hilarious for us ).
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Apr 21, 2021 1:28:56 GMT
Mortal Engines was just a bad movie. I'd rather watch Blade Runner if I want a weird movie.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Apr 21, 2021 4:39:53 GMT
Mortal Engines was just a bad movie. I'd rather watch Blade Runner if I want a weird movie. It was based off a book series so that is why I brought it up.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Apr 21, 2021 4:44:16 GMT
Totally agree on Mortal Engines. But strongly disagree on LotR. I would argue that is one of the best adaptations to a movie, but it's hardly accurate. But I see your point, and would love to see that kind of detail and effort go in to the show.
I consider myself an avid Foundation fan too, but I don't obsess about it. And yes, I have all the books as well and have read them several times. Oh, and no need to apologise on my account. Well it so far is the best science fiction long-term-in book that I have found and I too have read it many times.
As to LotR do you mean all of them as a whole or just the Hobbit hogwash of later years?
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Post by rewindbutton on Apr 21, 2021 13:39:27 GMT
Well it so far is the best science fiction long-term-in book that I have found and I too have read it many times.
As to LotR do you mean all of them as a whole or just the Hobbit hogwash of later years? I mean the 2001-2003 LotR trilogy. The Hobbit trilogy doesn't exist in my universe.
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Apr 21, 2021 15:27:09 GMT
Well it so far is the best science fiction long-term-in book that I have found and I too have read it many times.
As to LotR do you mean all of them as a whole or just the Hobbit hogwash of later years? I mean the 2001-2003 LotR trilogy. The Hobbit trilogy doesn't exist in my universe. The only one who 'exists' from the Hobbit trilogy in my mind...is Tauriel, aka Evangeline Lilly. She looks amazing as an Elf, pointed ears and red hair...especially the red hair, or maybe the ears....I can't decide, but it's a great look for her. And she's Canadian, eh!
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Apr 21, 2021 15:37:35 GMT
Well it so far is the best science fiction long-term-in book that I have found and I too have read it many times.
As to LotR do you mean all of them as a whole or just the Hobbit hogwash of later years? I mean the 2001-2003 LotR trilogy. The Hobbit trilogy doesn't exist in my universe. Well it is still more accurate to the books than the Mortal Engines movies' second half onward or even that dreaded "The Giver" movie. Talk about hogwash!
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Apr 21, 2021 15:42:04 GMT
I mean the 2001-2003 LotR trilogy. The Hobbit trilogy doesn't exist in my universe. The only one who 'exists' from the Hobbit trilogy in my mind...is Tauriel, aka Evangeline Lilly. She looks amazing as an Elf, pointed ears and red hair...especially the red hair, or maybe the ears....I can't decide, but it's a great look for her. And she's Canadian, eh! Well no offense but she doesn't exist in the books. So the movies' already are axed for me.
Adding or removing a character or even replacing them is to me: desecrating a writers work. That is something that I don't think should ever be tolerated.
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Apr 21, 2021 15:44:23 GMT
The only one who 'exists' from the Hobbit trilogy in my mind...is Tauriel, aka Evangeline Lilly. She looks amazing as an Elf, pointed ears and red hair...especially the red hair, or maybe the ears....I can't decide, but it's a great look for her. And she's Canadian, eh! Well no offense but she doesn't exist in the books. So the movies' already are axed for me.
Adding or removing a character or even replacing them is to me: desecrating a writers work. That is something that I don't think should ever be tolerated.
Yes I know, Tauriel was created specifically for the movies and they mention this in the Special Features I do believe. And while I like that, and I like her character......I do agree with you on that second/final point.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 21, 2021 16:34:15 GMT
I also consider LotR (not the Hobbit movies, that was an abomination) a pretty accurate book adaptation. But it also shows perfectly why changes between book and movie can be positive. I consider the fact that they cut Tom Bombadil a very good decision for the flow of the movie. Same goes with how the whole Aragorn/Arwen Situation and Aragorn's "bait" to Sauron is handled. Yes, it's much more simplistic than in the books, where it's all much more subtle and a lot more is happening between the lines there but the book just has so much more time and space to deal with these issues whereas the movie needs to boil it down. That was done expertly in that case IMO.
And if you know Peter Jackson, you know it's not out of disrespect of the original work. A movie is a different medium from a book and the producers need to account for that.
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Post by rewindbutton on Apr 21, 2021 17:04:22 GMT
I also consider LotR (not the Hobbit movies, that was an abomination) a pretty accurate book adaptation. But it also shows perfectly why changes between book and movie can be positive. I consider the fact that they cut Tom Bombadil a very good decision for the flow of the movie. Same goes with how the whole Aragorn/Arwen Situation and Aragorn's "bait" to Sauron is handled. Yes, it's much more simplistic than in the books, where it's all much more subtle and a lot more is happening between the lines there but the book just has so much more time and space to deal with these issues whereas the movie needs to boil it down. That was done expertly in that case IMO. And if you know Peter Jackson, you know it's not out of disrespect of the original work. A movie is a different medium from a book and the producers need to account for that. This is exactly what I was getting at. We understand each other perfectly, no need to add anything.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 29, 2021 17:57:51 GMT
Still hyped!
If the trailer is any indication, they are taking it super slow. I think most of what we see deals with the fall fo the Empire, which is basically just the setup for the first book. Still, looks very cool so far IMO.
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Post by rewindbutton on Jul 1, 2021 10:51:19 GMT
Still, looks very cool so far It sure does. I'm so hoping this is going to be a good one.
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Post by Caldari Ghost on Jul 1, 2021 18:59:44 GMT
Relephant:
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Jul 28, 2021 16:43:03 GMT
Does anyone know the monthly subscription cost of APPLE TV? I really would like to watch FOUNDATION, and I wouldn't mind subscribing to APPLE TV...But how do you do it, and how much does it cost?
Never mind, just gooogled it. It's only 5.99 per month, half the cost of Mouse Minus and a third of Not Flicks. Might be worth it to watch FOUNDATION.....But di I have to have any APPLE device?
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Post by TopTrog on Jul 29, 2021 18:51:05 GMT
Does anyone know the monthly subscription cost of APPLE TV? I really would like to watch FOUNDATION, and I wouldn't mind subscribing to APPLE TV...But how do you do it, and how much does it cost? Never mind, just gooogled it. It's only 5.99 per month, half the cost of Mouse Minus and a third of Not Flicks. Might be worth it to watch FOUNDATION.....But di I have to have any APPLE device? I do not think you need an apple device to use it, you can view it on PC via their website. Here in Europe they used to give you a 1 year subscription for free if you register a new apple device (one time per user only I think). That is how I got my free access last year. No idea if that is still valid.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jul 30, 2021 6:28:51 GMT
If you have PS5 you'll get AppleTV free for 6 months with appleid. I took it as I have iphone..
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Jul 31, 2021 14:12:39 GMT
I think my dad may have an old Ipad....Does that count? (Probably not).
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 2, 2021 20:07:13 GMT
I think my dad may have an old Ipad....Does that count? (Probably not). Will probably work (my 2009 iPad2 worked just fine until I switched to a new one just a couple of months ago). But as was said here before, you should be able to also just watch it with any web browser on a PC for example.
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 31, 2021 17:38:12 GMT
So, looks like they are really doing a very VERY loose interpretation of the books. Still, I do think it looks awesome for now. I didn't really expect a faithful adaptation to begin with. Can't wait!
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Sept 1, 2021 2:52:04 GMT
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Post by rewindbutton on Sept 24, 2021 11:43:44 GMT
Two episodes out, what do you guys think?
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Post by AnDromedary on Sept 25, 2021 4:13:18 GMT
Two episodes out, what do you guys think? Well, I'd say the predictions of the trailer have been proven correct. The series is definitely a re-interpretation of the story than an actual retelling. When you watch it, watch it with that in mind and take it for what it is.
So what is it?
I am really trying to keep this spoiler free but there may be some mild spoilers on the general events and directions coming up here, I wouldn't count them as real spoiler, as I am trying to keep things vague but just making sure no one complains later.
I think the first episode was absolutely brilliant.It basically takes up and expands on the first chapter of the book and it does that quite well IMO. The liberties it takes are quite understandable and the storyline is still very much recognizable. While I am not sure the whole concept of psychohistory came across as the very intriguing idea that I remember it being in the book, this may just be the case because it's not the first time I am confronted with it now. Or maybe it's just a bit harder to do on screen than in writing, I am not sure. What I am sure about is that both visually and in terms of the characters and storytelling, the first episode is fantastic. Couldn't have asked for more honestly. I don't mind at all that Gaal was changed into a woman. It fits the story pretty well to be honest. Jared Harris is doing a great job as Hari Seldon IMO.
All in all, the first episode was absolutely great. We even saw a glimpse of Salvor Hardin (now also a woman, and yrs, this is fine as well, the book was too much of a boys club tbh)
The second episode was IMO not as good as the first. Here the series starts to really deviate from the book. Instead of time jumping, the stick with the Foundation party as they Travel to Terminus. I am not saying this is inherently bad or unexpected. The series had to stick with the principle characters longer. All those time jumps in the book were going to be the main hurdle (I am still not sure how they'll handle it exactly). And the scenes on board the ship are interesting and give us a little bit more perspective about the doubts and fears these people felt when embarking on their rather bleak mission. Meanwhile, the series also elaborates on the fall of the empire (which was also something I expected and wanted to see actually, I thought the books sometimes had a bit of a narrow perspective there). So in principle all of this is fine, however, there were some thing that annoyed me. I don't mind that Gaal gets a romance but IMO, they linger a little too long on the "show some flesh" moments at times (it's not nearly as bad as e.g. GoT, thank god, but for this otherwise rather heady scifi series, it still feels like one could have faded to black a little earlier there, as from a narrative perspective, they got the point across long before). Also, Gall has one specific idiosyncrasy that is really starting to get on my nerves. She is counting prime numbers and muttering them under her breath, almost David Archer (Mass Effect 2: Overlord DLC) style and she is doing it a little too often in the hour of the second episode. Oh, and the end of the second episode ... well, I have no idea what's going on. If this has anything to do with the book I don't remember it (I really don't think it doers though). So the show is now starting to really go it's own way. we'll see, it's too early to tell if this is good or not, for now, the end of the show just left em very confused.
So, the second episode lacks a little in the grandeur and elegance which the first one set up IMO. I think I would have been happier if the first episode had started a bit weaker but the second had improved on it (an upward trend is always better than a downward one). Still, all in all I am very positive about the start of the series. So far, I think it's a beautiful and - most importantly - somewhat intelligent and sophisticated scifi drama (god knows we don't get a lot of those) with a very bold art style and gorgeous visuals.
Honestly, whether it'll measure up to the book (which in fairness is probably impossible anyway) or not, I think so far it's very cool and I am happy they went for it. If they can keep that level (or maybe even bring it back to Episode 1), it'll be one of my highlights for sure.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Sept 25, 2021 8:35:38 GMT
First episode: GREAT VISUALS! Reminded me a lot of MEA. Story: A bit meh at this point. We'll see how it goes forward. Music did not match visuals unfortunately for me.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Sept 25, 2021 22:40:55 GMT
Two episodes out, what do you guys think?
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