jadebaby88
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Official BSN Originale - Still searching for a better ending to ME3
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jun 7, 2021 1:49:08 GMT
An article from BioWare writer Chris Helper, www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2021/02/12/bioware-confirms-once-and-for-all-mass-effect-3s-indoctrination-theory-wasnt-true/?sh=12648f772df9 . Apparently, the writers were "never that smart" to think of something like that. Then why does the kid in the vent disappear with no footsteps? And what's with the eerie camera angle zooming back through the vent? Why does no one else acknowledge his existence? Why the dream sequences? How does the Catalyst know to even take that form without knowing what's inside your head? And why, in the final hours interview, was this response given when asked about the ending... On Deciding the End of the Game
The illusive man boss fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page. And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gameplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices). Lastly, how do we all feel about this? Personally I was hoping this would be the main plotline to start off Mass Effect 5, but now I guess I just gotta hope for a high EMS destroy ending (that didn't kill the Geth!). PS - Sorry as I'm sure this has probably been posted before as it was from an interview back in Feb 21. However I couldn't find anything here.
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midnightwolf
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: BlackSassyWolf
XBL Gamertag: BlackSassyWolf
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Post by midnightwolf on Jun 7, 2021 10:02:34 GMT
I refuse to believe Shepard was at any point indoctrinated. It simply makes no sense. Harbinger, a Reaper with a seemingly personal obsession with Shepard, would simply force him to the Reapers side.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 7, 2021 11:28:55 GMT
If they go with indoctrination, then I would say why isn't Garrus indoctrinated? He's the only character that can be with Shepard on nearly every mission. The one difference is he isn't with Shepard for Arrival.
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azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Jun 7, 2021 11:39:34 GMT
I refuse to believe Shepard was at any point indoctrinated. It simply makes no sense. Harbinger, a Reaper with a seemingly personal obsession with Shepard, would simply force him to the Reapers side. That's not how indoctrination works. The only entities totally under Reaper's control are the husks. Before they reach that level, indoctrinated people are manipulated via their actions/beliefs by using subjective hallucinations (visual and auditive) and dreams. It's more like various stage/type of schizophrenia, instead of pure mind control. Shepard's hallucinations and dreams in ME3 fit with that. It is also supported by meeting TIM in the Citadel at the end, TIM had an implant that allowed him to control indoctrinated people, not every organics.
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t4rget
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Enkindle this!
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 7, 2021 12:06:35 GMT
I've got no stakes in the IT boat. Never cared one way or the other. If it is real, they owe us a real ending, though. Because none of the things past the beam can be real.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 7, 2021 12:41:33 GMT
I've got no stakes in the IT boat. Never cared one way or the other. If it is real, they owe us a real ending, though. Because none of the things past the beam can be real. None of it was real. It was a story told by a guy.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 7, 2021 12:52:00 GMT
I've got no stakes in the IT boat. Never cared one way or the other. If it is real, they owe us a real ending, though. Because none of the things past the beam can be real. None of it was real. It was a story told by a guy. I don't disagree. But Bioware can still wake up tomorrow and say, you know what? IT was real all along. And we'd be owed the real ending. It can happen in 2055, for all I care, we'd still be owed the real ending. The thing is Chris no longer works at Bioware and can't speak for them.
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andydandymandy
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Post by andydandymandy on Jun 7, 2021 18:34:08 GMT
The Indoctrination Theory is another reason why the ending of ME3 sucks. If fans are telling themselves your ending isn't even real and is just some mind control trick by the villain, you know you didn't provide the closure and clarity that the end of your trilogy needed to have. The writers failed to stick the landing and this is just another example of how.
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Post by winterking on Jun 8, 2021 14:27:03 GMT
An article from BioWare writer Chris Helper, www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2021/02/12/bioware-confirms-once-and-for-all-mass-effect-3s-indoctrination-theory-wasnt-true/?sh=12648f772df9 . Apparently, the writers were "never that smart" to think of something like that. Then why does the kid in the vent disappear with no footsteps? And what's with the eerie camera angle zooming back through the vent? Why does no one else acknowledge his existence? Why the dream sequences? How does the Catalyst know to even take that form without knowing what's inside your head? And why, in the final hours interview, was this response given when asked about the ending... On Deciding the End of the Game
The illusive man boss fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page. And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gameplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices). Lastly, how do we all feel about this? Personally I was hoping this would be the main plotline to start off Mass Effect 5, but now I guess I just gotta hope for a high EMS destroy ending (that didn't kill the Geth!). PS - Sorry as I'm sure this has probably been posted before as it was from an interview back in Feb 21. However I couldn't find anything here. If the Indoctrination theory was real we would've found out when the Extended Cut was released. I played the trilogy years later with all story DLCs and then I watched the videos on Youtube about this theory. While interesting, the whole thing could never been real because then Mass Effect 3 doesn't have a real ending. I suppose they could retcon the next Mass Effect and make the Indoctrination Theory fit but I doubt that will happen. It would be admission from Bioware that the ending of MET was so bad that they had change everything and fix it in the next game that will be released what? More than 10 years since the ME3.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jun 8, 2021 15:24:08 GMT
An article from BioWare writer Chris Helper, www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2021/02/12/bioware-confirms-once-and-for-all-mass-effect-3s-indoctrination-theory-wasnt-true/?sh=12648f772df9 . Apparently, the writers were "never that smart" to think of something like that. Then why does the kid in the vent disappear with no footsteps? And what's with the eerie camera angle zooming back through the vent? Why does no one else acknowledge his existence? Why the dream sequences? How does the Catalyst know to even take that form without knowing what's inside your head? And why, in the final hours interview, was this response given when asked about the ending... On Deciding the End of the Game
The illusive man boss fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page. And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gameplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices). Lastly, how do we all feel about this? Personally I was hoping this would be the main plotline to start off Mass Effect 5, but now I guess I just gotta hope for a high EMS destroy ending (that didn't kill the Geth!). PS - Sorry as I'm sure this has probably been posted before as it was from an interview back in Feb 21. However I couldn't find anything here. IT was never real, it was the fevered dreams of desperate fans looking for answers why their sacred cow just experienced explosive diarrhea all over their bed. Why does the kid disappear? shit writing. why the camera zoom? shit camera work, why does no one acknowledge him? shit writing. WHy the dream sequences? Because Bioware wanted Shepard to be experiencing war related PTSD trauma and epicly failed at writing it. WHy does the Catalyst take that form?....again, shit writing and Bioware thought it would be "artsy". Bioware is a pretentious studio who lacks the talent to properly portray their pretentiousness.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 8, 2021 15:24:50 GMT
I suppose they could retcon the next Mass Effect and make the Indoctrination Theory fit but I doubt that will happen. It would be admission from Bioware that the ending of MET was so bad that they had change everything and fix it in the next game that will be released what? More than 10 years since the ME3. I don't know if ME can have a future, after ME3. I mean, does moving 600 years in the future fix anything? Whether in the MW or Andromeda? Or, hell, maybe if we move over to a third galaxy this time? The galaxy in the trilogy was already underexplored, the places we went to where literally 2 corridors and 5 doors, maybe, with the exception of the Citadel in ME1 and some of Omega. While we did visit some locales that are memorable, we didn't really explore them. We know nothing of Tuchanka, Palaven, Rannoch, Thessia and all these other places we've been told so much about. Effectively, it makes the setting feel very small, in comparison and I don't know if people feel any attachment to these places, but I can say that I don't. To me and many people I've talked to, the things that matter to them where the Normandy, the crew and the cast. Similarly, I don't know if anyone that likes Andromeda is particularly attached to the Heleus cluster, or care about anything other than the Nexus, the Tempest and the expanded cast, again. I don't know for sure, but is anyone really invested in visiting Kadara again? Or is anyone interested in finding out how the Heleus Cluster is in the year 3257? Everything that matters in Ryder's time is over, it's done. Yeah, it can have new interesting things to explore and, at some point, we'd have to, but is that the "Andromeda sequel" that they want? I don't think it is and I don't think it can be. Similarly to all the unanswered questions of ME3's endings, none of which can be answered in a satisfactory manner 600 years later, none of Andromeda's unanswered questions can be answered 500 years later. And even if we get an Andromeda 2, with a new protagonist, that still leaves the fans that want to see those arcs concluded with Ryder.
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lavigne
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Post by lavigne on Jun 8, 2021 15:31:45 GMT
If they were ever going to do anything around the ending then IT would have been their ‘Bobby Ewing coming out of the shower’ get out of jail free card. Clearly it would have undermined their ‘artistic vision’ and betrayed the people who actually liked the ending, but boy it could have got them out of quite a few headaches....
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14thcommander
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Post by 14thcommander on Jun 8, 2021 16:40:00 GMT
The Indoctrination Theory is another reason why the ending of ME3 sucks. If fans are telling themselves your ending isn't even real and is just some mind control trick by the villain, you know you didn't provide the closure and clarity that the end of your trilogy needed to have. The writers failed to stick the landing and this is just another example of how. How does the ending of ME3 not give you closure? Maybe if you pick Synthesis or Control, but Destroy makes it pretty clear; The Reapers are destroyed, everyone survives, the mass relays are damaged and whether you get the breath scene or not Shepard isn't dead. The problem is the different endings and why there's even a choice in the first place. To me the choices from ME1 to ME3 mattered in how you got to the end, how Shepard wins the war. The ending 'choices' took all that away imo. I think it's one thing Cyberpunk did better when it comes to multiple endings, but even then, the 'good' ending in that game is still pretty open ended about the V surviving or not.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 8, 2021 17:13:32 GMT
If they were ever going to do anything around the ending then IT would have been their ‘Bobby Ewing coming out of the shower’ get out of jail free card. Clearly it would have undermined their ‘artistic vision’ and betrayed the people who actually liked the ending, but boy it could have got them out of quite a few headaches.... The people that liked the endings and defended Bioware's "artistic vision" should, in all reason, defend Bioware's "artistic vision" regardless of IT. Otherwise, it's just hypocrisy.
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gileadan on Jun 8, 2021 17:21:19 GMT
IT was never real, it was the fevered dreams of desperate fans looking for answers why their sacred cow just experienced explosive diarrhea all over their bed. Why does the kid disappear? shit writing. why the camera zoom? shit camera work, why does no one acknowledge him? shit writing. WHy the dream sequences? Because Bioware wanted Shepard to be experiencing war related PTSD trauma and epicly failed at writing it. WHy does the Catalyst take that form?....again, shit writing and Bioware thought it would be "artsy". Bioware is a pretentious studio who lacks the talent to properly portray their pretentiousness. Yeah. It's forced drama combined with low budget cutscenes. Why does no one notice the kid? Because everyone noticing him would have to be animated/voiced accordingly. Same reason why at the end of Trespasser the Inquisitor comes home minus one forearm and practically nobody reacts to it. When that Matthias guy in Anthem gets split into three people, the reaction of the next NPC is "guess there's three of them now lol". It's just how BioWare rolls.
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jadebaby88
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Official BSN Originale - Still searching for a better ending to ME3
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jun 8, 2021 19:04:28 GMT
If the Indoctrination theory was real we would've found out when the Extended Cut was released. I played the trilogy years later with all story DLCs and then I watched the videos on Youtube about this theory. While interesting, the whole thing could never been real because then Mass Effect 3 doesn't have a real ending. I suppose they could retcon the next Mass Effect and make the Indoctrination Theory fit but I doubt that will happen. It would be admission from Bioware that the ending of MET was so bad that they had change everything and fix it in the next game that will be released what? More than 10 years since the ME3. Yea I suppose, there's just so much wrong with that final sequence. I just played it then, it's so strange to be looking at the only catwalk to the console area and you can hear Anderson going "hang on I think I've found a way across" when there was no one there and you could see the only entrance into the room he magically appears in before you. But I'm guessing that would be attributed to a rushed ending instead of the idea that something greater was going on. To be honest though, when I played the EC way back when, I think I was still too raw from the original ending that I didn't appreciate it as much. Also it's worth noting that in high EMS destroy ending, when they show all the people you lost, they didn't show images of EDI or the Geth. So I reckon they all good. I mean the Catalyst threatened you saying that you're partly synthetic and you wake up for a few more excruciating seconds before suffocating and bleeding out under the rubble. So he was wrong about me, he's wrong about EDI and the Geth.
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jadebaby88
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Official BSN Originale - Still searching for a better ending to ME3
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jun 8, 2021 19:11:00 GMT
The Indoctrination Theory is another reason why the ending of ME3 sucks. If fans are telling themselves your ending isn't even real and is just some mind control trick by the villain, you know you didn't provide the closure and clarity that the end of your trilogy needed to have. The writers failed to stick the landing and this is just another example of how. How does the ending of ME3 not give you closure? Maybe if you pick Synthesis or Control, but Destroy makes it pretty clear; The Reapers are destroyed, everyone survives, the mass relays are damaged and whether you get the breath scene or not Shepard isn't dead. The problem is the different endings and why there's even a choice in the first place. To me the choices from ME1 to ME3 mattered in how you got to the end, how Shepard wins the war. The ending 'choices' took all that away imo. I think it's one thing Cyberpunk did better when it comes to multiple endings, but even then, the 'good' ending in that game is still pretty open ended about the V surviving or not. Except how does Shepard survive? Even with getting the breath scene? You're stranded presumably on the Citadel still. Everyone else bailed to get away from the explosion and everyone on the citadel had been slaughtered. So how much longer does Shepard survive bleeding out under the rubble before they succumb to their injuries?
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jadebaby88
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Official BSN Originale - Still searching for a better ending to ME3
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jun 8, 2021 19:25:12 GMT
IT was never real, it was the fevered dreams of desperate fans looking for answers why their sacred cow just experienced explosive diarrhea all over their bed. Why does the kid disappear? shit writing. why the camera zoom? shit camera work, why does no one acknowledge him? shit writing. WHy the dream sequences? Because Bioware wanted Shepard to be experiencing war related PTSD trauma and epicly failed at writing it. WHy does the Catalyst take that form?....again, shit writing and Bioware thought it would be "artsy". Bioware is a pretentious studio who lacks the talent to properly portray their pretentiousness. That sad truth lies on the other side of the coin.
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14thcommander
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Your Fave Vanguard Knucklehead
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by 14thcommander on Jun 8, 2021 20:01:21 GMT
How does the ending of ME3 not give you closure? Maybe if you pick Synthesis or Control, but Destroy makes it pretty clear; The Reapers are destroyed, everyone survives, the mass relays are damaged and whether you get the breath scene or not Shepard isn't dead. The problem is the different endings and why there's even a choice in the first place. To me the choices from ME1 to ME3 mattered in how you got to the end, how Shepard wins the war. The ending 'choices' took all that away imo. I think it's one thing Cyberpunk did better when it comes to multiple endings, but even then, the 'good' ending in that game is still pretty open ended about the V surviving or not. Except how does Shepard survive? Even with getting the breath scene? You're stranded presumably on the Citadel still. Everyone else bailed to get away from the explosion and everyone on the citadel had been slaughtered. So how much longer does Shepard survive bleeding out under the rubble before they succumb to their injuries? Oh yeah it's definitely farfetched but I guess since they didn't fill the gaps we have to assume someone saves Shep or else what would be the point of that scene?
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Post by shotgunjulia on Jun 8, 2021 20:21:38 GMT
Except how does Shepard survive? Even with getting the breath scene? You're stranded presumably on the Citadel still. Everyone else bailed to get away from the explosion and everyone on the citadel had been slaughtered. So how much longer does Shepard survive bleeding out under the rubble before they succumb to their injuries? Oh yeah it's definitely farfetched but I guess since they didn't fill the gaps we have to assume someone saves Shep or else what would be the point of that scene? Well if you played the mini-game on your iPhone every day and you got the breath scene, you received an e-mail from your love interest that they were waiting to visit you in the hospital. The android version of the app had bugs and didn't work properly.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jun 8, 2021 20:26:27 GMT
Oh yeah it's definitely farfetched but I guess since they didn't fill the gaps we have to assume someone saves Shep or else what would be the point of that scene? Well if you played the mini-game on your iPhone every day and you got the breath scene, you received an e-mail from your love interest that they were waiting to visit you in the hospital. The android version of the app had bugs and didn't work properly. The fact that a shitty phone game is the only source of this information absolutely disgusts me...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 8, 2021 20:27:31 GMT
How does the ending of ME3 not give you closure? Maybe if you pick Synthesis or Control, but Destroy makes it pretty clear; The Reapers are destroyed, everyone survives, the mass relays are damaged and whether you get the breath scene or not Shepard isn't dead. The problem is the different endings and why there's even a choice in the first place. To me the choices from ME1 to ME3 mattered in how you got to the end, how Shepard wins the war. The ending 'choices' took all that away imo. I think it's one thing Cyberpunk did better when it comes to multiple endings, but even then, the 'good' ending in that game is still pretty open ended about the V surviving or not. Except how does Shepard survive? Even with getting the breath scene? You're stranded presumably on the Citadel still. Everyone else bailed to get away from the explosion and everyone on the citadel had been slaughtered. So how much longer does Shepard survive bleeding out under the rubble before they succumb to their injuries? Not at all true. Most people survived, including all characters we know, according to BioWare.
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Post by shotgunjulia on Jun 8, 2021 20:53:21 GMT
Well if you played the mini-game on your iPhone every day and you got the breath scene, you received an e-mail from your love interest that they were waiting to visit you in the hospital. The android version of the app had bugs and didn't work properly. The fact that a shitty phone game is the only source of this information absolutely disgusts me... I fully agree with you. And the fact that the Bioware mods knew this and trolled the community on BSN back in 2012 for weeks, sparking flame war after flame war absolutely disgusts me to no end. I remember the "Schroedinger's Shepard" bullshit put forth by one of them - you know, Shepard is both alive and dead at the same time and the only way to find out for sure is to open the box. Fuck the Copenhagen interpretation. They could have told the community about the iPhone app resolution.
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Apr 19, 2024 23:14:15 GMT
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Blast Processor
"Why are you telling me this? I can read and draw my own conclusions." - Roach
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Post by Blast Processor on Jun 8, 2021 21:11:08 GMT
It's forced drama combined with low budget cutscenes. Why does no one notice the kid? Because everyone noticing him would have to be animated/voiced accordingly. Same reason why at the end of Trespasser the Inquisitor comes home minus one forearm and practically nobody reacts to it. When that Matthias guy in Anthem gets split into three people, the reaction of the next NPC is "guess there's three of them now lol". It's just how BioWare rolls. Development of ME3 was a rushed nightmare. You can see where they cut corners with the animation all over the place. Like how come Shep doesn't help Thane or Kirrahe when each of them is fighting Kai Leng. Or all the scenes that have to work with or without an ME2 character, Shep dragging Rila out of the monastery instead of Samara was the one that stood out most to me. Structuring things so you only need to make minimal changes to each scene, and you have limited time and resources, that's how you do it. Not at all true. Most people survived, including all characters we know, according to BioWare. Funny, wasn't it Mac Walters that initially tweeted that everybody on the Citadel had a rough time. And then around the same time Patrick Weekes tweeted that most people survived, including all characters we know, as you mentioned. Good times. I think this division is the main reason we got the Extended Cut, I'm sure many BioWare developers were completely unsatisfied with how things ended.
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