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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 8, 2021 21:53:11 GMT
It's forced drama combined with low budget cutscenes. Why does no one notice the kid? Because everyone noticing him would have to be animated/voiced accordingly. Same reason why at the end of Trespasser the Inquisitor comes home minus one forearm and practically nobody reacts to it. When that Matthias guy in Anthem gets split into three people, the reaction of the next NPC is "guess there's three of them now lol". It's just how BioWare rolls. Development of ME3 was a rushed nightmare. You can see where they cut corners with the animation all over the place. Like how come Shep doesn't help Thane or Kirrahe when each of them is fighting Kai Leng. Or all the scenes that have to work with or without an ME2 character, Shep dragging Rila out of the monastery instead of Samara was the one that stood out most to me. Structuring things so you only need to make minimal changes to each scene, and you have limited time and resources, that's how you do it. Not at all true. Most people survived, including all characters we know, according to BioWare. Funny, wasn't it Mac Walters that initially tweeted that everybody on the Citadel had a rough time. And then around the same time Patrick Weekes tweeted that most people survived, including all characters we know, as you mentioned. Good times. I think this division is the main reason we got the Extended Cut, I'm sure many BioWare developers were completely unsatisfied with how things ended. I don't know about any tweets on the subject, but I do know there was the convention they were at where they were asked about it and said that most survived, between the Citadel Defense Force and there being bunkers people went into and how the Citadel wasn't ripped into a million pieces but more broke up into chunks.
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Post by shotgunjulia on Jun 8, 2021 22:52:37 GMT
Yes, the Citadel broke up into chunks.... Like that wouldn't have killed most of the people.... Bunkers be damned. Does anyone have any idea of the g forces involved in that?
Mass Effect 5 could just toss the ending of ME3 altogether, start with a big cinematic of Shepard being buried under rubble on the ground and Harbinger leaving. Just have the Crucible fire and destroy the reapers. The Crucible focuses the control signal emanating from the Citadel to the reapers and instructs them to self-destruct. It doesn't have to destroy the mass relays. If the signal damages them? Fine. It'll take time to repair them. The galaxy will take a long time to recover anyway. Synthetic life? Gone. Okay, sacrifices had to be made. They find Shepard and take him/her to the hospital. Problem with the ending solved. Where does this leave the Quarians? Not all quarians were in the Migrant Fleet. Let's say there were enough to populate a planet. Reaper FTLs are all over the place. It'll just take a few weeks to get around the galaxy now instead of instantly.
Now write a new story.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 8, 2021 23:17:41 GMT
Yes, the Citadel broke up into chunks.... Like that wouldn't have killed most of the people.... Bunkers be damned. Does anyone have any idea of the g forces involved in that? Mass Effect 5 could just toss the ending of ME3 altogether, start with a big cinematic of Shepard being buried under rubble on the ground and Harbinger leaving. Just have the Crucible fire and destroy the reapers. The Crucible focuses the control signal emanating from the Citadel to the reapers and instructs them to self-destruct. It doesn't have to destroy the mass relays. If the signal damages them? Fine. It'll take time to repair them. The galaxy will take a long time to recover anyway. Synthetic life? Gone. Okay, sacrifices had to be made. They find Shepard and take him/her to the hospital. Problem with the ending solved. Where does this leave the Quarians? Not all quarians were in the Migrant Fleet. Let's say there were enough to populate a planet. Reaper FTLs are all over the place. It'll just take a few weeks to get around the galaxy now instead of instantly. Now write a new story. That sounds terrible, and I’m thankful you will be nowhere near writing the next Mass Effect game.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 8, 2021 23:32:49 GMT
That sounds terrible, and I’m thankful you will be nowhere near writing the next Mass Effect game. Sounds great to me, though.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 8, 2021 23:54:41 GMT
According to Patrick Weekes, a lot of the people on the Citadel survived
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jun 9, 2021 2:48:08 GMT
Except how does Shepard survive? Even with getting the breath scene? You're stranded presumably on the Citadel still. Everyone else bailed to get away from the explosion and everyone on the citadel had been slaughtered. So how much longer does Shepard survive bleeding out under the rubble before they succumb to their injuries? Oh yeah it's definitely farfetched but I guess since they didn't fill the gaps we have to assume someone saves Shep or else what would be the point of that scene? They said the only reason they added this scene was because the pre-EC destroy ending they felt was "too sad" so they added this scene like it would make all the difference lol it just makes it worse.
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jun 9, 2021 2:57:32 GMT
Except how does Shepard survive? Even with getting the breath scene? You're stranded presumably on the Citadel still. Everyone else bailed to get away from the explosion and everyone on the citadel had been slaughtered. So how much longer does Shepard survive bleeding out under the rubble before they succumb to their injuries? Not at all true. Most people survived, including all characters we know, according to BioWare. I guess they had so little time to finish it that they even had to start explaining the story outside of the game.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jun 9, 2021 6:50:29 GMT
The fact that a shitty phone game is the only source of this information absolutely disgusts me... I fully agree with you. And the fact that the Bioware mods knew this and trolled the community on BSN back in 2012 for weeks, sparking flame war after flame war absolutely disgusts me to no end. I remember the "Schroedinger's Shepard" bullshit put forth by one of them - you know, Shepard is both alive and dead at the same time and the only way to find out for sure is to open the box. Fuck the Copenhagen interpretation. They could have told the community about the iPhone app resolution. Well what do you expect from a group of people who told us we were just too stupid to understand the genius of their Art.
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Post by lavigne on Jun 9, 2021 7:40:40 GMT
I fully agree with you. And the fact that the Bioware mods knew this and trolled the community on BSN back in 2012 for weeks, sparking flame war after flame war absolutely disgusts me to no end. I remember the "Schroedinger's Shepard" bullshit put forth by one of them - you know, Shepard is both alive and dead at the same time and the only way to find out for sure is to open the box. Fuck the Copenhagen interpretation. They could have told the community about the iPhone app resolution. Well what do you expect from a group of people who told us we were just too stupid to understand the genius of their Art. I think my favourite bit was when Priestly started mansplaining writing science fiction to Melinda Snodgrass.... 😂
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jun 9, 2021 8:31:05 GMT
Well what do you expect from a group of people who told us we were just too stupid to understand the genius of their Art. I think my favourite bit was when Priestly started mansplaining writing science fiction to Melinda Snodgrass.... 😂 Yea, explaining writing sci fi to the author of Measure of a Man. The gall you have to have...
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Post by winterking on Jun 9, 2021 12:27:40 GMT
I suppose they could retcon the next Mass Effect and make the Indoctrination Theory fit but I doubt that will happen. It would be admission from Bioware that the ending of MET was so bad that they had change everything and fix it in the next game that will be released what? More than 10 years since the ME3. I don't know if ME can have a future, after ME3. I mean, does moving 600 years in the future fix anything? Whether in the MW or Andromeda? Or, hell, maybe if we move over to a third galaxy this time? The galaxy in the trilogy was already underexplored, the places we went to where literally 2 corridors and 5 doors, maybe, with the exception of the Citadel in ME1 and some of Omega. While we did visit some locales that are memorable, we didn't really explore them. We know nothing of Tuchanka, Palaven, Rannoch, Thessia and all these other places we've been told so much about. Effectively, it makes the setting feel very small, in comparison and I don't know if people feel any attachment to these places, but I can say that I don't. To me and many people I've talked to, the things that matter to them where the Normandy, the crew and the cast. Similarly, I don't know if anyone that likes Andromeda is particularly attached to the Heleus cluster, or care about anything other than the Nexus, the Tempest and the expanded cast, again. I don't know for sure, but is anyone really invested in visiting Kadara again? Or is anyone interested in finding out how the Heleus Cluster is in the year 3257? Everything that matters in Ryder's time is over, it's done. Yeah, it can have new interesting things to explore and, at some point, we'd have to, but is that the "Andromeda sequel" that they want? I don't think it is and I don't think it can be. Similarly to all the unanswered questions of ME3's endings, none of which can be answered in a satisfactory manner 600 years later, none of Andromeda's unanswered questions can be answered 500 years later. And even if we get an Andromeda 2, with a new protagonist, that still leaves the fans that want to see those arcs concluded with Ryder. That's my main issue with the endings tbh. If everything was the same but the Catalyst only presented the option to destroy the Reapers I would actually have less issues with it because at least, the state of the Galaxy would not be a problem for the next ME. I don't need to play with Shepard again but I wanted to see what happens in the Milky Way after the Reaper war instead of going to another galaxy. I haven't played Andromeda yet.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 9, 2021 12:48:55 GMT
I don't need to play with Shepard again but I wanted to see what happens in the Milky Way after the Reaper war instead of going to another galaxy. I would guess a lot of people would like to see the galaxy rebuild. The hardships each species faces. What conflicts might arise. As a suggestion, watch a few videos of gameplay to see if it's something you would be interested in.
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14thcommander
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Post by 14thcommander on Jun 9, 2021 13:14:06 GMT
Oh yeah it's definitely farfetched but I guess since they didn't fill the gaps we have to assume someone saves Shep or else what would be the point of that scene? Well if you played the mini-game on your iPhone every day and you got the breath scene, you received an e-mail from your love interest that they were waiting to visit you in the hospital. The android version of the app had bugs and didn't work properly. Really? That's so cute.
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Post by Spectr61 on Jun 9, 2021 18:17:07 GMT
I suppose they could retcon the next Mass Effect and make the Indoctrination Theory fit but I doubt that will happen. It would be admission from Bioware that the ending of MET was so bad that they had change everything and fix it in the next game that will be released what? More than 10 years since the ME3. I don't know if ME can have a future, after ME3. I mean, does moving 600 years in the future fix anything? Whether in the MW or Andromeda? Or, hell, maybe if we move over to a third galaxy this time? The galaxy in the trilogy was already underexplored, the places we went to where literally 2 corridors and 5 doors, maybe, with the exception of the Citadel in ME1 and some of Omega. While we did visit some locales that are memorable, we didn't really explore them. We know nothing of Tuchanka, Palaven, Rannoch, Thessia and all these other places we've been told so much about. Effectively, it makes the setting feel very small, in comparison and I don't know if people feel any attachment to these places, but I can say that I don't. To me and many people I've talked to, the things that matter to them where the Normandy, the crew and the cast. Similarly, I don't know if anyone that likes Andromeda is particularly attached to the Heleus cluster, or care about anything other than the Nexus, the Tempest and the expanded cast, again. I don't know for sure, but is anyone really invested in visiting Kadara again? Or is anyone interested in finding out how the Heleus Cluster is in the year 3257? Everything that matters in Ryder's time is over, it's done. Yeah, it can have new interesting things to explore and, at some point, we'd have to, but is that the "Andromeda sequel" that they want? I don't think it is and I don't think it can be. Similarly to all the unanswered questions of ME3's endings, none of which can be answered in a satisfactory manner 600 years later, none of Andromeda's unanswered questions can be answered 500 years later. And even if we get an Andromeda 2, with a new protagonist, that still leaves the fans that want to see those arcs concluded with Ryder. This. Biower is absolutely going to have to come to some sort of closure over the ME3 endings in order to move forward. Whether Indoc Theory, retconning one of the 4 endings, or something else; a firm base from which to move forward must be established. Then again, it's Biower, so probably ain't gonna happen. Just leave all the plot holes and all the other shit up in the air, admit nothing, fix nothing, and let controversy and chaos rule
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lavigne
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Post by lavigne on Jun 9, 2021 18:29:41 GMT
Back in the weeks/months after ME3 dropped BW posted a bunch of infomatics showing how many players did x, y and z. Although it wasn’t something they disclosed they 100% would know how many people chose which endings. At around the same time there was a huge public survey run across a number of channels (not by BW). Can’t remember the exact numbers but the ballpark number of respondents was in the tens of thousands. The results from that suggested that the vast majority of respondents who completed the game went with Destroy.
If BW do have that data, and it does point towards one end being hugely more popular than the rest then just f***ing canonise it already. 🙄
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jun 9, 2021 18:40:52 GMT
Back in the weeks/months after ME3 dropped BW posted a bunch of infomatics showing how many players did x, y and z. Although it wasn’t something they disclosed they 100% would know how many people chose which endings. At around the same time there was a huge public survey run across a number of channels (not by BW). Can’t remember the exact numbers but the ballpark number of respondents was in the tens of thousands. The results from that suggested that the vast majority of respondents who completed the game went with Destroy. If BW do have that data, and it does point towards one end being hugely more popular than the rest then just f***ing canonise it already. 🙄 They can't. Their too stubborn and pretentious. It would ruin their "Artistic Integrity" to remove the other 2 options. I am absolutely convinced Bioware would literally rather die, as a Studio than admit their Art was flawed. After everything they said to us, about how stupid and uncultured we were, there is no coming back down for them, except with a noose.
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Post by lavigne on Jun 9, 2021 18:50:36 GMT
They can't. Their too stubborn and pretentious. It would ruin their "Artistic Integrity" to remove the other 2 options. I am absolutely convinced Bioware would literally rather die, as a Studio than admit their Art was flawed. After everything they said to us, about how stupid and uncultured we were, there is no coming back down for them, except with a noose. Might be a different story if 80% of folks had chosen synthesis like BW thought we should have, but yeah, you’re probably right sadly. It’s hard seeing where the franchise goes without addressing the end of ME3 in some way. Ignoring it was just one of MEA’s many problems.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 9, 2021 20:28:38 GMT
Right after ME3 released, I was a big fan of IT. For one thing because back before the EC, a lot of the puzzle peaces really fit well and on the other hand, it would have been such a gutsy move by BioWare to piss of their entire fanbase, pulling that kind of narrative stunt. They'd have indoctrinated their own audience (or tried to at least)! I would have celebrated them for it and I believe it would have burned Mass Effect even more into the annals of interactive fiction history than it already is. But while I admired the geniuses who came up with it and gathered all that circumstantial evidence, it was clear to me that it was a very long shot, so I never put any kind of emotional investment into it. If BW had come out with a long prepared IT patch a few weeks after the game released, I'd have opened a bottle of champagne but if not, well, then not. IMO there was very little value in it unless BW had been actually initiating it (which they had not).
Alas, it was not supposed to be. By the time we got more and more info about what the EC was gonna be, it became very clear the BW never considered anything like IT (at least not beyond some very early conceptual stages). So as far as I was concerned, that was the end of it.
Now I just remember it fondly as a cool fan theory from back in the day, nothing more. And that's fine with me, too.
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Post by Guardian on Jun 10, 2021 1:42:05 GMT
Back in the weeks/months after ME3 dropped BW posted a bunch of infomatics showing how many players did x, y and z. Although it wasn’t something they disclosed they 100% would know how many people chose which endings. At around the same time there was a huge public survey run across a number of channels (not by BW). Can’t remember the exact numbers but the ballpark number of respondents was in the tens of thousands. The results from that suggested that the vast majority of respondents who completed the game went with Destroy. If BW do have that data, and it does point towards one end being hugely more popular than the rest then just f***ing canonise it already. 🙄 I remember that data; I remember Destroy being like insanely high in percentage, followed by Synthesis, then I absolutely remember Control being only 8%. I remember this because I was shocked at how low it was
It was Paragon Soldier Sheploo that the majority of players went with. I forget the percentages on that, but I remember it was also high as well.
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lavigne
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Post by lavigne on Jun 10, 2021 5:39:23 GMT
I remember that data; I remember Destroy being like insanely high in percentage, followed by Synthesis, then I absolutely remember Control being only 8%. I remember this because I was shocked at how low it was. It was Paragon Soldier Sheploo that the majority of players went with. I forget the percentages on that, but I remember it was also high as well. From memory I think it was Destroy > Control > Synthesis > Refuse (although I may have got the last two the wrong way around). Destroy was ridiculously high (something like 85%?) to the point that it would have been hard to believe that it would have contradicted the wider player-base. One of the reasons BW got really p*say over the endings I think was that there was a flat out rejection of their pet choice, synthesis.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jun 10, 2021 7:29:38 GMT
Development of ME3 was a rushed nightmare. You can see where they cut corners with the animation all over the place. Just let me put that gun away when I want also ME2 was very quick job, I dont remember if rushed or not. In ME2 the gun pops up almost every time after cut scene or such, I dont want to point that gun all the time... On the Indoctrination? Dont care, ME3 is done, Shepard is dead, they wont be continuing that, I'm pretty sure about it
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 10, 2021 8:33:44 GMT
I still favour Intoxication Theory as my favourite. You remember the bar with the "This is ... it's green!" quote? That's where it all began.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 10, 2021 8:40:01 GMT
On the Indoctrination? Dont care, ME3 is done, Shepard is dead, they wont be continuing that, I'm pretty sure about it Unfortunately, I am also pretty sure Shepard isn't coming back.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jun 10, 2021 9:05:34 GMT
On the Indoctrination? Dont care, ME3 is done, Shepard is dead, they wont be continuing that, I'm pretty sure about it Unfortunately, I am also pretty sure Shepard isn't coming back. The galaxies are vast, and so are the inhabitants. I would think we find either a new playable character (which I'm kinda ok with, as we shouldnt get hung up on space.jesus.type like Shepard) or Ryder twins.. or then its Liara ;D
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 10, 2021 9:15:20 GMT
The galaxies are vast, and so are the inhabitants. I would think we find either a new playable character (which I'm kinda ok with, as we shouldnt get hung up on space.jesus.type like Shepard) or Ryder twins.. or then its Liara ;D Under better conditions, yes. These aren't better conditions.
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