dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 11, 2021 17:23:51 GMT
They've outright said they weren't smart enough to come up with an ending like that. I suspect they were being tongue-in-cheek there, since IT was always waaaaaaay dumber and more nonsensical than even the original non-EC ending (which is saying something), but they didn't want to come right out and call a spade "a spade". Not very diplomatic or PR-friendly to call your fans/customers idiots, even when they are, in fact, being idiotic. It's compelling in a lot of ways but it just doesn't hold up.
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Post by dagless on Aug 11, 2021 19:36:42 GMT
They've outright said they weren't smart enough to come up with an ending like that. I suspect they were being tongue-in-cheek there, since IT was always waaaaaaay dumber and more nonsensical than even the original non-EC ending (which is saying something), but they didn't want to come right out and call a spade "a spade". Not very diplomatic or PR-friendly to call your fans/customers idiots, even when they are, in fact, being idiotic. What’s so idiotic about it? As fan theories go, it seems pretty decent to me. It fits with the events depicted, and more importantly, it fits with the lore of the universe and the overall story. Also the whole scene with TIM and Anderson at the end is quite surreal. I played the trilogy after the whole endings debacle. As I understand it, there were a lot of people hoping that IT was canon and there would be DLC which ended the whole story differently. That sounds like grasping at straws, and I guess that’s why many seem to dislike it so much. But ignore all that, and seems pretty well thought through and quite interesting. Personally, I quite like stories where it’s not clear what’s real and what isn’t. There doesn’t even has to be a right or wrong answer. It’s fine to be left open to interpretation.
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Post by q5tyhj on Aug 12, 2021 0:39:26 GMT
I suspect they were being tongue-in-cheek there, since IT was always waaaaaaay dumber and more nonsensical than even the original non-EC ending (which is saying something), but they didn't want to come right out and call a spade "a spade". Not very diplomatic or PR-friendly to call your fans/customers idiots, even when they are, in fact, being idiotic. What’s so idiotic about it? As fan theories go, it seems pretty decent to me. It fits with the events depicted, and more importantly, it fits with the lore of the universe and the overall story. Also the whole scene with TIM and Anderson at the end is quite surreal. I played the trilogy after the whole endings debacle. As I understand it, there were a lot of people hoping that IT was canon and there would be DLC which ended the whole story differently. That sounds like grasping at straws, and I guess that’s why many seem to dislike it so much. But ignore all that, and seems pretty well thought through and quite interesting. Personally, I quite like stories where it’s not clear what’s real and what isn’t. There doesn’t even has to be a right or wrong answer. It’s fine to be left open to interpretation. It was fine as a fan theory, and made for some quality memes and stuff... But as dmc1001 said, it doesn't hold up if you take it at all seriously, and so the idea that its actually what Biovar had in mind is... something
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 13, 2021 6:48:39 GMT
It was fine as a fan theory, and made for some quality memes and stuff... But as dmc1001 said, it doesn't hold up if you take it at all seriously, and so the idea that its actually what Biovar had in mind is... something I don't think IT was necessarily better. You know what's better than was presented to us? Jar Jar Binks being a secret Sith Lord. Of course it doesn't hold up but if you read the theory it's so freaking amazing. I don't get that same vibe from IT.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 8:12:01 GMT
It was fine as a fan theory, and made for some quality memes and stuff... But as dmc1001 said, it doesn't hold up if you take it at all seriously, and so the idea that its actually what Biovar had in mind is... something I don't think IT was necessarily better. You know what's better than was presented to us? Jar Jar Binks being a secret Sith Lord. Of course it doesn't hold up but if you read the theory it's so freaking amazing. I don't get that same vibe from IT. Yeah, but... Jar Jar IS a Sith Lord. The Sith Lord. It completely holds up, and actually explains a great deal. Hiding in plain sight, and lowly... we never saw him coming. That is a villain well done, and you have to really pay attention to see the true story. /Jedi True Stories, on A&E
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Post by q5tyhj on Aug 13, 2021 14:43:48 GMT
It was fine as a fan theory, and made for some quality memes and stuff... But as dmc1001 said, it doesn't hold up if you take it at all seriously, and so the idea that its actually what Biovar had in mind is... something I don't think IT was necessarily better. You know what's better than was presented to us? Jar Jar Binks being a secret Sith Lord. Of course it doesn't hold up but if you read the theory it's so freaking amazing. I don't get that same vibe from IT. I don't think IT was better, that was my original point. It was OK, for a fan theory. But that's sort of a low bar to clear since fan theories can be pretty... um... special. If it had actually been in the game, it would have been even worse than the endings we got, and I suspect people would have been even angrier than they were. Which is saying something.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 13, 2021 17:02:58 GMT
I don't think IT was necessarily better. You know what's better than was presented to us? Jar Jar Binks being a secret Sith Lord. Of course it doesn't hold up but if you read the theory it's so freaking amazing. I don't get that same vibe from IT. I don't think IT was better, that was my original point. It was OK, for a fan theory. But that's sort of a low bar to clear since fan theories can be pretty... um... special. If it had actually been in the game, it would have been even worse than the endings we got, and I suspect people would have been even angrier than they were. Which is saying something. Same with me. I like to throw out different possibilities as to what could have been done at different points in the game - even one that more or less puts the events of ME1 in ME2 and vice versa. The Collectors were a threat for unknown reasons, then Sovereign shows up, then the Reapers show up en masse. The Council still doesn't believe there's a connection to some mythical Reapers and even Sovereign doesn't change their minds. Hence, ME3 is more or less the same. However, I've only ever had the most barebones ideas about how that would work so it would need to be majorly fleshed out. Though I did hold out on Ash until ME2 and have her join Shep with Cerberus. Not that Ash was pro-Cerberus but she would have had fewer issues working with them than Kaidan did. In theory, anyway.
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Post by q5tyhj on Aug 13, 2021 23:32:01 GMT
I don't think IT was better, that was my original point. It was OK, for a fan theory. But that's sort of a low bar to clear since fan theories can be pretty... um... special. If it had actually been in the game, it would have been even worse than the endings we got, and I suspect people would have been even angrier than they were. Which is saying something. Same with me. I like to throw out different possibilities as to what could have been done at different points in the game - even one that more or less puts the events of ME1 in ME2 and vice versa. The Collectors were a threat for unknown reasons, then Sovereign shows up, then the Reapers show up en masse. The Council still doesn't believe there's a connection to some mythical Reapers and even Sovereign doesn't change their minds. Hence, ME3 is more or less the same. However, I've only ever had the most barebones ideas about how that would work so it would need to be majorly fleshed out. Though I did hold out on Ash until ME2 and have her join Shep with Cerberus. Not that Ash was pro-Cerberus but she would have had fewer issues working with them than Kaidan did. In theory, anyway. the really sad part is that it wouldn't have required anything near so complicated as IT to make the ME3 ending make sense: just give the Reapers any other motivation, other than the one they actually gave them. Literally anything, that isn't explicitly self-contradictory. Make them harvest organics in order to assimilate their cultural/scientific/etc knowledge, or something. Almost anything would have worked, no convoluted "its all a dream" trope required.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 14, 2021 17:33:30 GMT
the really sad part is that it wouldn't have required anything near so complicated as IT to make the ME3 ending make sense: just give the Reapers any other motivation, other than the one they actually gave them. Literally anything, that isn't explicitly self-contradictory. Make them harvest organics in order to assimilate their cultural/scientific/etc knowledge, or something. Almost anything would have worked, no convoluted "its all a dream" trope required. ME1 implied some things that were never followed up on. Yes, they were consistent with the "we're each our own nation". However, the Reapers also suggested they were infinite (which is not and has never been true per creating a human Reaper in ME2), which to me meant they were some sort of universal mechanism. No one made them. No Intelligence to make them or any magic device to stop them. The current cycle would have found a way to end whatever was forcing the cycles. If the plotline of the dark energy had ever been fleshed out and followed up on, we have a thing that sets out to fix the problem of organics accessing the dark energy and created harm. The current races would discover a way around it and the Reapers would be unnecessary and so able to be defeated. Or maybe the Reapers themselves were the problem all along. Anyway, practically anything could have been done to not have the Catalyst and the magic device to defeat the Reapers.
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Post by mtheillusive on Aug 14, 2021 21:19:16 GMT
While I like the idea of indoctrination theory, I see moreso now that the endings may have been planned as they were all the way back in ME2. Why do I say this? Simple: OVERLORD. I just replayed it again, and it clicked into my head when I heard one phrase a few times...control. The Illusive Man had always planned to control the Reapers from the beginning of ME2 at the latest. Project Overlord ran simultaneously with Project Lazarus (just in different cells). He suspected (or flat outright knew if you go by that comic with Liara) that the Collectors we're working with the Reapers as they wanted Shepard's body so badly. And they just happened to be behind the colony abductions, confirmed on Freedom's Progress. At the same time, he is setting up a project to learn if it's possible for humans to directly interact and control AI, starting with the Geth. Long term, while he may have helped organize things to stop the Collectors, he really wanted the Collector Base to Control the Reapers, and he knew that Shepard could get the job done. It was ALWAYS the plan. It also made me think of Andromeda (which has an Overlord connected mission), and how Alec said there's some things Ryder is going to find out that's not good. Well, it hit me while playing Overlord again: did Alec have any test subject projects to find out if his SAM could work before he implanted the primary SAM into himself? Who was the benefactor, and did they help conduct their own Overlord like experiments to help out Ryder and make sure SAM was successful? Why was Cora specifically initially chosen as second in command and successor to SAM if the transfer would have worked? I wonder if the synthesis ending works into this as well..... Something to think about... The square root of 912.04 is 30.2... it all seemed harmless...
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Post by Phantom on Aug 15, 2021 0:42:00 GMT
Does Popcorn made by Cerberus proves IT? Does IT proves Popcorn made by Cerberus to be safe?
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 16, 2021 15:17:31 GMT
I wonder if the synthesis ending works into this as well..... Synthesis was clearly the plan of the Reapers. TIM was running Control, though I'd say by the end he was Synthesis without knowing it. I've said elsewhere that TIM had implants going pack decades that were based on Reaper Tech. He was moving in the direction of Synthesis all along, maybe even including Shepard's revival. We know for sure he made husks in ME1 and had husk-like troopers in ME3. Guy was really into Synthesis when you take that wider view.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2021 17:41:46 GMT
I wonder if the synthesis ending works into this as well..... Synthesis was clearly the plan of the Reapers. TIM was running Control, though I'd say by the end he was Synthesis without knowing it. I've said elsewhere that TIM had implants going pack decades that were based on Reaper Tech. He was moving in the direction of Synthesis all along, maybe even including Shepard's revival. We know for sure he made husks in ME1 and had husk-like troopers in ME3. Guy was really into Synthesis when you take that wider view. Mind fucking blown. I've always understood that Blue was TIM, Red was Anderson. Green is actually what the Intelligence wants... One more reason. The airlock.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 17, 2021 20:29:56 GMT
I wonder if the synthesis ending works into this as well..... Synthesis was clearly the plan of the Reapers. TIM was running Control, though I'd say by the end he was Synthesis without knowing it. I've said elsewhere that TIM had implants going pack decades that were based on Reaper Tech. He was moving in the direction of Synthesis all along, maybe even including Shepard's revival. We know for sure he made husks in ME1 and had husk-like troopers in ME3. Guy was really into Synthesis when you take that wider view. *Assuming direct control*
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 19, 2021 19:05:39 GMT
Does Popcorn made by Cerberus proves IT? Does IT proves Popcorn made by Cerberus to be safe? Only thing I know is: If Cerberus were to make Popcorn ... it would probably get loose and kill all their guys.
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Post by Phantom on Aug 19, 2021 19:14:22 GMT
Does Popcorn made by Cerberus proves IT? Does IT proves Popcorn made by Cerberus to be safe? Only thing I know is: If Cerberus were to make Popcorn ... it would probably get loose and kill all their guys. well that did happen and we made corrections on that.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 20, 2021 19:36:52 GMT
Does Popcorn made by Cerberus proves IT? Does IT proves Popcorn made by Cerberus to be safe? Only thing I know is: If Cerberus were to make Popcorn ... it would probably get loose and kill all their guys. That's what actually happened to those human settlements in ME1. Cerberus sent them popcorn and then it was over.
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Post by jadebaby88 on Sept 1, 2021 17:19:29 GMT
It's entirely possible to have everyone die in the suicide mission at the end of ME2, including Shepard. Yet the game still plays out and ends afterwards. Obviously with the existence of ME3 this ending is not canon anymore, therefore setting a precedent for them to do it again in ME4 with the Destroy ending. You cant import that ending into ME3. Therefore whatever happens after Shep dies in ME2 is unknown, because its not part of Shep's story. But it doesnt mean its uncanonical. Yes, it does. That's the very definition of canon. The only way it could be considered "canonical" is if ME3 never existed at all. Because then there would be no canon at all after ME2 and we can all just imagine the rest of the story safely... #StillABetterEndingThanME3.
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Post by jadebaby88 on Sept 1, 2021 17:25:31 GMT
Then why does the kid in the vent disappear with no footsteps? And what's with the eerie camera angle zooming back through the vent? Why does no one else acknowledge his existence? Why the dream sequences? How does the Catalyst know to even take that form without knowing what's inside your head? Why should there be footsteps? Well I guess because the kid had already created footsteps in the vent, which is ironically the only reason Shepard even goes over to it in the first place........ If it's just plain guilt, then I guess Shepard was the only one feeling kind enough to help the kid, coz no one else around the child gave a fuck.
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 1, 2021 17:49:09 GMT
Why should there be footsteps? Well I guess because the kid had already created footsteps in the vent, which is ironically the only reason Shepard even goes over to it in the first place........ If it's just plain guilt, then I guess Shepard was the only one feeling kind enough to help the kid, coz no one else around the child gave a fuck. Who? Anderson had already gone through the door. The kid was able to climb into the shuttle on his own and it wasn't until after he was inside that the door closed. Besides, we know 100% that IT is false. The devs said so. This discussion is really academic because we know it's false. The kid was real.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 1, 2021 19:15:32 GMT
You cant import that ending into ME3. Therefore whatever happens after Shep dies in ME2 is unknown, because its not part of Shep's story. But it doesnt mean its uncanonical. Yes, it does. That's the very definition of canon. The only way it could be considered "canonical" is if ME3 never existed at all. Because then there would be no canon at all after ME2 and we can all just imagine the rest of the story safely... #StillABetterEndingThanME3. After the dumpster fire that is ME3, I'd be okay with that.
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