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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 21:58:56 GMT
My FemSheps still generally prefer Kaidan. Can't imagine being intimate with a turian being at all a pleasant experience. As a really good friend or brother figure, he works very well.
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Post by dragontartare on Jun 12, 2021 21:59:42 GMT
The OP fails to take into account that unlike real life, a heterosexual Shepard only has four options (not counting the one night stands). Pfff. I'd pick him anyway As an aside, I like that the VS doesn't just accept Zombie Shepard, but there attitude in combination with Shep being a putz, it leaves a lot to be desired with regard to those scenes. Yeah, I don't really mind the VS having doubts, but refusing to give Shepard a chance to explain and throwing a hissy fit because Shepard didn't contact them (when Shepard had no way of doing so...which VS would know if they had just shut up for a second) is the death of any kind of close relationship for me, romantic or otherwise.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 12, 2021 22:03:03 GMT
For me, Garrus is the best love interest for heterosexual female Shepards because he is the most present and supportive. 1) Contrast his response to her working with Cerberus in ME2 to Kaidan's: Garrus: Frankly, I'm more worried about you. *Cerberus*, Shepard. You remember those sick experiments they were doing? Shepard: That's why I'm glad you're here, Garrus. If I'm walking into Hell I want someone I trust at my side. Garrus: You realize this plan has *me* walking into Hell, too? Hm. Just like old times. (He doesn't trust Cerberus, but he trusts Shepard.)
Kaidan: You turned your back on everything we believed in. You betrayed the Alliance! You betrayed *me*! Garrus sticks up for Shepard: Dammit, Kaidan, you're so focused on Cerberus you're ignoring the real threat! Shepard: You're letting how you feel about their history get in the way of the facts. Kaidan: Maybe. Or maybe *you* feel like you owe Cerberus because they saved you. Maybe *you're* the one who's not thinking straight. You've changed. But I know where *my* loyalties lie. (He doesn't trust Cerberus or Shepard's judgment.)
2) He doesn't take his relationship with Shepard for granted. He gives Shepard 3 opportunities to call off the relationship in ME2 and two in ME3. In my playthrough I didn't even have the opportunity to lock in Garrus' relationship until I had already turned Kaidan down. Garrus: It seemed you needed time to ... figure us out. On the other hand, Kaidan seems to assume he's in a relationship with Shepard in ME3 even if Shepard romanced someone else in ME2. Kaidan: I understand why you cheated. But I still love you, Shepard. (What?)
3) If Shepard breaks up with Garrus, he accepts it and still supports her. Before the Omega 4 relay: Shepard: Garrus, we need to rethink this. I don't want to hurt our friendship. Garrus: Yeah. Let's leave it be. Probably would have torn a ligament or something anyways... I'll let you get back to work, Shepard. And I'll be there when you need me.
4) In ME3, Garrus is one of only a few people who ask Shepard how she is doing. He makes sure she gets some sleep. 5) He learns the tango so Shepard won't have to embarrass herself on the dance floor any more. He plays along with her bar roleplay idea. 6) Garrus does his homework. "I've been doing more research on human customs. I didn't want to ... presume anything." 7) Garrus doesn't die (unless Shepard gets him killed). 8) Garrus doesn't get someone else pregnant while Shepard's in prison. It certainly helps that Garrus is on the squad in all 3 games. He is also extremely competent, funny, and has a great voice. So even though he looks like a cross between a grasshopper and a buff velociraptor, he's a keeper. The OP fails to take into account that unlike real life, a heterosexual Shepard only has four options (not counting the one night stands). Too bad he isn't human though.... I would have had him as my Femshep's main LI.
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Post by Blast Processor on Jun 13, 2021 0:00:15 GMT
Yeah, I don't really mind the VS having doubts, but refusing to give Shepard a chance to explain and throwing a hissy fit because Shepard didn't contact them (when Shepard had no way of doing so...which VS would know if they had just shut up for a second) is the death of any kind of close relationship for me, romantic or otherwise. Fair enough. Though for me its pretty clear the only goal of the Horizon scene is to get rid of the VS, I don't know, I guess I'm just so stubborn that I basically rebel against the writer bias. Its like, the more the games want me to like Garrus the more I refuse to. LOL.
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Post by dragontartare on Jun 13, 2021 0:02:57 GMT
Yeah, I don't really mind the VS having doubts, but refusing to give Shepard a chance to explain and throwing a hissy fit because Shepard didn't contact them (when Shepard had no way of doing so...which VS would know if they had just shut up for a second) is the death of any kind of close relationship for me, romantic or otherwise. Fair enough. Though for me its pretty clear the only goal of the Horizon scene is to get rid of the VS, I don't know, I guess I'm just so stubborn that I basically rebel against the writer bias. Its like, the more the games want me to like Garrus the more I refuse to. LOL. I understand, because that's how I am with Liara
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Post by Blast Processor on Jun 13, 2021 0:22:55 GMT
Don't forget Tali! I like all three to an extent, its just very grudgingly. Haha. Back in the day, I used to wonder why Talimancer's didn't complain more about her content in ME3, like the Liaramancers seemed to. And then I finally played through the Tali romance, and that's when I understood. LOL.
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Post by danielhungary on Jun 13, 2021 23:45:13 GMT
With the release of the Legendary edition and even before then I noticed a lot of female gamers have the hots for Garrus, and seeing this gives me hope, even if you are an ugly hideous looking space alien, as long as you are cool and are good with shooting a rifle, you can still pull down some tail. I deliberately made a mistake when aiming and ended up with a hot hug, a kiss ending the date and last but not least the Paramour III trophy .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 8:45:50 GMT
I don’t believe it. Not once in my entire life have I heard a woman say John Facenda is sexy. And he has the voice of god.
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Post by dragontartare on Jun 15, 2021 2:54:33 GMT
I don’t believe it. Not once in my entire life have I heard a woman say John Facenda is sexy. And he has the voice of god. Yeah, why believe people when they tell you plainly what they find sexy? I had to look up John Facenda. I don't find his voice god-like at all.
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Post by 14thcommander on Jun 15, 2021 13:04:28 GMT
I don’t believe it. Not once in my entire life have I heard a woman say John Facenda is sexy. And he has the voice of god. So you're going to base your entire generalization on the fact that you haven't personally heard a woman say one guy is sexy? That is far from the scientific method my friend. I don't know why men act like it's a secret what women find attractive lmao it's really not. If they're mature, then personality is more important than anything. That and confidence. If you try to act like someone else just to try and 'impress' a girl, guess what? We see right through that shit and it's cringe.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2021 19:15:44 GMT
I don’t believe it. Not once in my entire life have I heard a woman say John Facenda is sexy. And he has the voice of god. Yeah, why believe people when they tell you plainly what they find sexy? I had to look up John Facenda. I don't find his voice god-like at all. It was a joke, because his nickname is "The Voice of God" I don’t believe it. Not once in my entire life have I heard a woman say John Facenda is sexy. And he has the voice of god. So you're going to base your entire generalization on the fact that you haven't personally heard a woman say one guy is sexy? That is far from the scientific method my friend. I don't know why men act like it's a secret what women find attractive lmao it's really not. If they're mature, then personality is more important than anything. That and confidence. If you try to act like someone else just to try and 'impress' a girl, guess what? We see right through that shit and it's cringe. See above. And also I agree with you on the second point, its not like women constantly say one thing but mean another, or that they stay with a man who verbally and/or physically abuses them them and then come crying to me and ask "Why cant I find a nice guy like you?" and then the next day they are back suckin off the douche bag. Hypothetically speaking.
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Post by dragontartare on Jun 15, 2021 21:33:04 GMT
And also I agree with you on the second point, its not like women constantly say one thing but mean another, or that they stay with a man who verbally and/or physically abuses them them and then come crying to me and ask "Why cant I find a nice guy like you?" and then the next day they are back suckin off the douche bag. Hypothetically speaking. Don't start this nice guy crap Men who are actually nice don't stereotype billions of people based on their own experiences with individuals who are stuck in the cycle of abuse. Please read about domestic abuse and why people (not just women) get stuck with abusive partners, and do so with an open mind. It is not about you. And then quit chasing women who are in this position! You are not going to fix anything by hanging around them, hoping they'll decide to have sex with you. You seem to be expecting a mature, honest, mutually supportive relationship from people who are obviously not in the right frame of mind for such a thing, and then instead of thinking, "Gosh, Sally must not be the woman for me. I should rethink the traits I'm looking for in a partner," you think, "UGH, why do all women prefer jerks and refuse to say what they really mean?" How does that make any sense? You want an honest, supportive, mature partner, so you seek out women who are so emotionally damaged, so low in self-esteem, so lacking in independence, that they actually stick with partners who physically abuse them? And you think that just being exposed to you is going to suddenly fix them? Why? That's not how it works. Stop it. Instead, start seeking out women who are ready for the type of relationship you want...assuming that you are ready for such a relationship. And based on the fact that you seem to think it's all about looks, and that you buy in to the nice guy stuff, I'm not convinced that you are ready. (Though I could be wrong, especially if you are young.) There is no harm in taking dating off the table for a while in order to figure yourself out and decide what you really want. You might check out Dr. Nerdlove if you're open to some introspection. He's awesome.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2021 22:01:39 GMT
And also I agree with you on the second point, its not like women constantly say one thing but mean another, or that they stay with a man who verbally and/or physically abuses them them and then come crying to me and ask "Why cant I find a nice guy like you?" and then the next day they are back suckin off the douche bag. Hypothetically speaking. Don't start this nice guy crap Men who are actually nice don't stereotype billions of people based on their own experiences with individuals who are stuck in the cycle of abuse. Please read about domestic abuse and why people (not just women) get stuck with abusive partners, and do so with an open mind. It is not about you. And then quit chasing women who are in this position! You are not going to fix anything by hanging around them, hoping they'll decide to have sex with you. You seem to be expecting a mature, honest, mutually supportive relationship from people who are obviously not in the right frame of mind for such a thing, and then instead of thinking, "Gosh, Sally must not be the woman for me. I should rethink the traits I'm looking for in a partner," you think, "UGH, why do all women prefer jerks and refuse to say what they really mean?" How does that make any sense? You want an honest, supportive, mature partner, so you seek out women who are so emotionally damaged, so low in self-esteem, so lacking in independence, that they actually stick with partners who physically abuse them? And you think that just being exposed to you is going to suddenly fix them? Why? That's not how it works. Stop it. Instead, start seeking out women who are ready for the type of relationship you want...assuming that you are ready for such a relationship. And based on the fact that you seem to think it's all about looks, and that you buy in to the nice guy stuff, I'm not convinced that you are ready. (Though I could be wrong, especially if you are young.) There is no harm in taking dating off the table for a while in order to figure yourself out and decide what you really want. You might check out Dr. Nerdlove if you're open to some introspection. He's awesome. I didnt stereotype anyone, my OP was a joke about Garrus being ugly and therefore me being ugly. The second was a joke about my high school experiences. I don't hang around women like this, in fact I don't hang around any woman (expect the occasional stripper, now that I think about it..........you may have a point) I do think that women do give mixed singles at times, and I am sure that men can too, but I have never hit on a man so I cant comment on what it is like trying to pursue a man for an intimate relationship. I try to see people as individuals, I am not an idiot (collectivist)
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Post by dragontartare on Jun 15, 2021 22:13:50 GMT
I didnt stereotype anyone, Your entire "hypothetical" that I quoted was one big stereotype in fact I don't hang around any woman (expect the occasional stripper, now that I think about it..........you may have a point) Indeed I try to see people as individuals I'm glad you do. But in that case, just be aware that your nice guy-esque jokes may be giving off a very different impression.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2021 22:37:49 GMT
I didnt stereotype anyone, Your entire "hypothetical" that I quoted was one big stereotype in fact I don't hang around any woman (expect the occasional stripper, now that I think about it..........you may have a point) Indeed I try to see people as individuals I'm glad you do. But in that case, just be aware that your nice guy-esque jokes may be giving off a very different impression. I will stand by what I said in the first part of my quote, about women saying one thing and meaning something else, that is fact and not stereotypical. The second part yes it was a tongue in cheek reference to my high school crush that had big tits. I still dream about paizuri with her.
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Post by dragontartare on Jun 15, 2021 22:48:20 GMT
I will stand by what I said in the first part of my quote, about women saying one thing and meaning something else, that is fact and not stereotypical. You're making a statement about literally billions of people based on your interpretations of small, biased sample of those people, and you think it's not a stereotype?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2021 22:53:45 GMT
I will stand by what I said in the first part of my quote, about women saying one thing and meaning something else, that is fact and not stereotypical. You're making a statement about literally billions of people based on your interpretations of small, biased sample of those people, and you think it's not a stereotype? If its true then no its not stereotyping, because its a factual statement.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2021 22:58:03 GMT
The OP fails to take into account that unlike real life, a heterosexual Shepard only has four options (not counting the one night stands). Pfff. I'd pick him anyway As an aside, I like that the VS doesn't just accept Zombie Shepard, but there attitude in combination with Shep being a putz, it leaves a lot to be desired with regard to those scenes. Yeah, I don't really mind the VS having doubts, but refusing to give Shepard a chance to explain and throwing a hissy fit because Shepard didn't contact them (when Shepard had no way of doing so...which VS would know if they had just shut up for a second) is the death of any kind of close relationship for me, romantic or otherwise. The VS may not know if Shepard had a chance to contact them or not. The dialogue line that tells the VS that is an optional one. Even if Shepard tells him outright that he was unconscious for two years, Kaidan has a right to be suspicious then that the individual before him is either a clone or someone under direct control of Cerberus. He experienced the Thorian's ability to control, the Rachni's ability to speak through someone under their control, and Sovereign ability to indoctrinate. Frankly, I'd be suspicious too.
Then, there's Kaidan's apology... which seems very sincere rather than a gushing "take me back" sort of apology (which are so often the kind issued by abusive males while they oscillate between their abuse and a "honeymoon" phase. He even confesses to being with someone else during the two years he and Shepard were apart. For me, Mass Effect 3 isn't about picking up the relationship where they left off, but rather building a new one from scratch again.
As for Garrus, I just don't find spikes and scales attractive on any physical level... which means "best friends' is as good as it gets with my FemSheps. My BroSheps also favor the human partners. I don't think that's racist because the differences between Shepard and the aliens are not just about race... it's species. I wouldn't want to do my dog or my horse or my pet lizard... even if they were intelligent enough to actually express the depths of our friendship verbally. We are close friends, but we'll never be sexual partners.
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Post by dragontartare on Jun 15, 2021 23:46:50 GMT
The VS may not know if Shepard had a chance to contact them or not. The dialogue line that tells the VS that is an optional one. Even if Shepard tells him outright that he was unconscious for two years, Kaidan has a right to be suspicious then that the individual before him is either a clone or someone under direct control of Cerberus. He experienced the Thorian's ability to control, the Rachni's ability to speak through someone under their control, and Sovereign ability to indoctrinate. Frankly, I'd be suspicious too. The post you quoted said that I don't mind VS having doubts. I get that. My problem is with VS not letting Shepard explain. Even if you choose the line where Shepard says she spent two years in a coma, Kaidan completely ignores that very important fact and instead focuses on Cerberus and on how hard this all was for him. This is absolutely a problem with the writers not giving Shepard and VS a chance to discuss everything, but unfortunately it colors my opinion of VS after that scene. And if Shepard and VS were in a relationship in ME1, VS not letting Shepard explain and calling her a traitor is definitely a breakup to me. He even confesses to being with someone else during the two years he and Shepard were apart. For me, Mass Effect 3 isn't about picking up the relationship where they left off, but rather building a new one from scratch again. And yet, apparently he accuses Femshep of cheating on him in ME3 if she starts a relationship with someone else in ME2 after Horizon. Why is it ok for him to have a relationship after Shepard dies, but it isn't ok for Shepard to have a relationship with someone after Kaidan breaks up with her? After VS doesn't take even a moment to consider how traumatic dying and coming back to life must have been for Shepard? If other players want to build a new relationship with Kaidan in ME3, go for it. It isn't my playthrough But I just can't stomach Shepard having a relationship with someone who made Shepard's death about them. I wouldn't want to do my dog or my horse or my pet lizard... even if they were intelligent enough to actually express the depths of our friendship verbally. I think if any animal on earth were to suddenly become sapient, with an adult human level of intelligence and ability to consent, I wouldn't be able to have a relationship with them either. I'd be too used to thinking of them as animals. But when it's a fictional protagonist with a fictional alien race that were introduced to us with human-level sapience, in a wider society where inter-species intercourse ( ) is already a thing, I think that's a little different. For me, anyway.
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Post by Blast Processor on Jun 16, 2021 0:30:13 GMT
Garrus is alright, but he is no Rachni Queen. My darling I, can't get enough of your love babe.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2021 2:34:28 GMT
The VS may not know if Shepard had a chance to contact them or not. The dialogue line that tells the VS that is an optional one. Even if Shepard tells him outright that he was unconscious for two years, Kaidan has a right to be suspicious then that the individual before him is either a clone or someone under direct control of Cerberus. He experienced the Thorian's ability to control, the Rachni's ability to speak through someone under their control, and Sovereign ability to indoctrinate. Frankly, I'd be suspicious too. The post you quoted said that I don't mind VS having doubts. I get that. My problem is with VS not letting Shepard explain. Even if you choose the line where Shepard says she spent two years in a coma, Kaidan completely ignores that very important fact and instead focuses on Cerberus and on how hard this all was for him. This is absolutely a problem with the writers not giving Shepard and VS a chance to discuss everything, but unfortunately it colors my opinion of VS after that scene. And if Shepard and VS were in a relationship in ME1, VS not letting Shepard explain and calling her a traitor is definitely a breakup to me. He even confesses to being with someone else during the two years he and Shepard were apart. For me, Mass Effect 3 isn't about picking up the relationship where they left off, but rather building a new one from scratch again. And yet, apparently he accuses Femshep of cheating on him in ME3 if she starts a relationship with someone else in ME2 after Horizon. Why is it ok for him to have a relationship after Shepard dies, but it isn't ok for Shepard to have a relationship with someone after Kaidan breaks up with her? After VS doesn't take even a moment to consider how traumatic dying and coming back to life must have been for Shepard? If other players want to build a new relationship with Kaidan in ME3, go for it. It isn't my playthrough But I just can't stomach Shepard having a relationship with someone who made Shepard's death about them. I wouldn't want to do my dog or my horse or my pet lizard... even if they were intelligent enough to actually express the depths of our friendship verbally. I think if any animal on earth were to suddenly become sapient, with an adult human level of intelligence and ability to consent, I wouldn't be able to have a relationship with them either. I'd be too used to thinking of them as animals. But when it's a fictional protagonist with a fictional alien race that were introduced to us with human-level sapience, in a wider society where inter-species intercourse ( ) is already a thing, I think that's a little different. For me, anyway. I know MaleShep can tell Ashley basically that she's got no right to be jealous. It's been awhile since I played a FemShep in ME2, but I'm pretty sure she has the same option. It ends any chance at rekindling any sort of relationship and increases the chances that the VS won't trust Shep enough to stand down when with the council. The option is Shep's, the response is that of the NPC (which is not within the player's control, but Bioware's). Kaidan is Bioware's character, not the players. It's not bad writing. You're just not that into Kaidan.
I really don't have an issue with Bioware's writing regarding Kaidan... now Jacob, that's a different story. I really wish my Shepard wasn't such a "cougar" constantly coming onto Jacob in ME2. I never romance him and I generally avoid talking to him as much as possible.
It wasn't really until ME2 where Shepard got comfortable with the inter-species relationships. In ME1, he/she clearly asks Liara "How can you and I have a relationship. We're not even the same species?" and Ashley says "I can't tell the aliens from the animals." I don't think it was originally meant to be a "common" thing between species other than the Asari (who had this special mind-meld talent. There are no indications of, for example, turians getting it on with quarians in ME1.
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Post by General Mahad on Jun 16, 2021 3:22:35 GMT
Garrus gave me hope, but ME3 spoiled it with constant calibration jokes and the mood whiplash of Citadel DLC.
At least our conversations about space machiavellianism were fun.
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Post by dragontartare on Jun 16, 2021 3:57:56 GMT
I know MaleShep can tell Ashley basically that she's got no right to be jealous. It's been awhile since I played a FemShep in ME2, but I'm pretty sure she has the same option. I assume you mean the hospital scene in ME3, in which case no, femshep does not get to tell Kaidan off in the way that maleshep does Ashley. I just looked up both varieties on YouTube to make sure. The option is Shep's, the response is that of the NPC (which is not within the player's control, but Bioware's). Kaidan is Bioware's character, not the players. It's not bad writing. You're just not that into Kaidan. How dismissive. Kaidan's treatment of Shepard in these scenes is why I don't like him. It's not as if I went into ME2 already hating Kaidan and using Horizon as further ammunition for my hatred. If you want to argue that taking a caring character and turning him into an asshole who has no concern whatsoever for the health and safety of his girlfriend -- and then not giving said girlfriend, who doesn't otherwise take shit from anyone else, any real option to tell him to go to hell -- is good writing, then we'll have to agree to disagree. I really don't have an issue with Bioware's writing regarding Kaidan... now Jacob, that's a different story. Do you need a reminder that Jacob is an NPC not in the player's control, but in Bioware's?
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trengilly
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Post by trengilly on Jun 16, 2021 4:09:43 GMT
I can't romance Garrus or Tali. My Shep is going to die saving the galaxy . . . either Garrus or Tali would be devastated in the aftermath if they were in a relationship with Shepard. I much prefer to let them find each other, they make a wonderful pair.
Kaidan comes across as being able to deal with the loss of Shepard. And Liara is basically already preprogrammed to accept the loss of her shorter lived partner, plus there is even the option for offspring.
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quarianmasterrace
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Post by quarianmasterrace on Jun 16, 2021 22:08:59 GMT
Garrus is alright, but he is no Rachni Queen. My darling I, can't get enough of your love babe. I wanted to play a 50 Shades style romance with Harbinger. That dirty talk tho
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