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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 9, 2021 11:14:37 GMT
Yeah I use her a fair bit too. I don' t have a problem wit hhersue rshe's a bi tclod at firsttowards you but I think that's mainly because she's not sure she can trust you given that she's Cerberus and up until now you've been Alliance. I do use her quite a bit though as her skills with both Warp and Overload are quite handy. But after a while after you get t oknow her I find her quite likeable First I want to say I didn't even know there were shots of Miranda's rear removed. Not that I care but I hate any kind of censorship. To me it doesn't matter the game was still good and there was tons of story. Now to the quote above. I too used Miranda a lot. Like you said she was very handy, and from an rp perspective since she was Shepard's second in command it was natural to have her around. I wish she was a companion in ME3. Her and Kasumi I wanted back. Yea hI don't really caer about the bum shots I play ME for it's story no tthat. Yeah i twould have been nice t ohave he rback but I can see why she didn't asfor one you'er back wit hthe Alliance and Cerberus and the Alliance aren't exactly buddiesshe knows not many people would trus ther even i fShepard did and assuming yo usaved Kaidan rather than Ash on Virmire you alerad ykind of have you rSentinel given she is kind of a Sentinel herself. TBH the asm ereally goes for Kasumi no one's really going to trust her with her reputation. I miss them too but I can see why the ytry not to gettoo involved because to win a war your team has to be able to trust on eanother especially when going up against something as tough as the Reapers. It's why I think tha t bot hAsh and Kaidan aer questioning you in the beginning as they're not sure they trus tyou anymore becaus of the fact you worked with Cerberus in ME2
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 9, 2021 17:04:52 GMT
I'll just say, I don't get the issue with the butt shots debate, they gave us a photo mode, you can now literally take as many butt shots as you like. 1. Despite the pathetic attempts by many to insinuate otherwise, this isn't a porn thing for anyone. No one would have given a crap if it had always been this way. When you make changes like this and then advertise it it is irritating virtue signalling.2. its the crap we've heard for a decade now about things they can't change due to artistic integrity. Apparently holding to your artistic integrity to stop you from a good ending or give people gay romances back into ME1 is still cool, but they are willing to dial back on artistic integrity here. Virtually no one complained about this, and this they put time into. Yeah the mechanics of doing it probably didn't take much time but they had to go through decision processes to change it how to change it etc.
Give me the hackett ending, give DMC1001 Kaiden in ME1. Don't change something pointless and then brag about it.
Nailed it!
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 9, 2021 17:05:51 GMT
I find her quite likeable And I change her into the (loyal) black outfit as soon as possible. Me, too. It's my favorite outfit for her.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 9, 2021 17:08:45 GMT
You have a very persistent drive on the amount of shots we get of Miranda in passing. There are many characters other than Miranda that get butt shots in passing, that I don't even recall where they happen, or in what context, because I don't get offended by male/female ass, nor to the point of becoming absolutely obsessed about it. Yet, you make a specific point about Miranda, which all it tells me is you have some stick somewhere about something, that I don't care to psychoanalyze out of you. You can have your opinion and keep it wherever you want, because you sure made an impression on me, that I don't care to share. I did not even know there were any Miranda buttshots outside of the one on her office. I have no doubt that people who it appeals to did see it. But look at Kaidan in ME3 if you'd previously romanced him. There's a buttshot when he's getting on or off an elevator he'd been sharing with Shepard. I don't hear any persistent bitching about that.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 9, 2021 17:45:21 GMT
Me, too. It's my favorite outfit for her. I like the 'dark' set for the whole crew.
Another 'changed' cutscene is on the way to Kasumi's mission. When Kasumi is discussing female Shepard's outfit, we no longer stare at her boobs. Nevertheless, this change too is a nothingburger... (old version pictured) As the point of the mission revolves around Kasumi's recently dead love interest, I can understand why the cutscene shouldn't imply that Kasumi is revelling in Shepard's baps.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 9, 2021 18:06:54 GMT
Lol imagine being upset they removed some gratuitous butt-shots from a video game The real issue is that BW wasted time making the change. My avatar should tell you I have no stake in it but I've got Kaidan's butt shots if I want them. I don't expect it to be removed because someone threw a hissy fit over it. People need to get over themselves and not be offended over absolutely everything. Ignore them and they go away. It's a fact. Complaining is Twitter's bread and butter sadly. It seems that Bioware is placating to them.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 9, 2021 19:06:13 GMT
I like the 'dark' set for the whole crew. Same. It's such a great look for them. Jack's is a particularly good change. Though I didn't find her original top offensive, I did find it stupid.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 9, 2021 19:37:20 GMT
Same. It's such a great look for them. Jack's is a particularly good change. Though I didn't find her original top offensive, I did find it stupid. Jack never struck me as a particularly smart woman, to begin with. She prioritizes her looks a bit too much and is too quick to judge people from a purely surface knowledge of them.
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Post by talyn82 on Jul 9, 2021 20:07:19 GMT
First I want to say I didn't even know there were shots of Miranda's rear removed. Not that I care but I hate any kind of censorship. To me it doesn't matter the game was still good and there was tons of story. Now to the quote above. I too used Miranda a lot. Like you said she was very handy, and from an rp perspective since she was Shepard's second in command it was natural to have her around. I wish she was a companion in ME3. Her and Kasumi I wanted back. Yea hI don't really caer about the bum shots I play ME for it's story no tthat. Yeah i twould have been nice t ohave he rback but I can see why she didn't asfor one you'er back wit hthe Alliance and Cerberus and the Alliance aren't exactly buddiesshe knows not many people would trus ther even i fShepard did and assuming yo usaved Kaidan rather than Ash on Virmire you alerad ykind of have you rSentinel given she is kind of a Sentinel herself. TBH the asm ereally goes for Kasumi no one's really going to trust her with her reputation. I miss them too but I can see why the ytry not to gettoo involved because to win a war your team has to be able to trust on eanother especially when going up against something as tough as the Reapers. It's why I think tha t bot hAsh and Kaidan aer questioning you in the beginning as they're not sure they trus tyou anymore becaus of the fact you worked with Cerberus in ME2 Yeah you're right about both Miranda and Kasumi. No one in the Alliance would trust them. I just really liked them as companions. I guess some of the people on Shepard's crew were shady in ME2.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 9, 2021 20:52:30 GMT
First I want to say I didn't even know there were shots of Miranda's rear removed. Not that I care but I hate any kind of censorship. To me it doesn't matter the game was still good and there was tons of story. Now to the quote above. I too used Miranda a lot. Like you said she was very handy, and from an rp perspective since she was Shepard's second in command it was natural to have her around. I wish she was a companion in ME3. Her and Kasumi I wanted back. Yea hI don't really caer about the bum shots I play ME for it's story no tthat. Yeah i twould have been nice t ohave he rback but I can see why she didn't asfor one you'er back wit hthe Alliance and Cerberus and the Alliance aren't exactly buddiesshe knows not many people would trus ther even i fShepard did and assuming yo usaved Kaidan rather than Ash on Virmire you alerad ykind of have you rSentinel given she is kind of a Sentinel herself. TBH the asm ereally goes for Kasumi no one's really going to trust her with her reputation. I miss them too but I can see why the ytry not to gettoo involved because to win a war your team has to be able to trust on eanother especially when going up against something as tough as the Reapers. It's why I think tha t bot hAsh and Kaidan aer questioning you in the beginning as they're not sure they trus tyou anymore becaus of the fact you worked with Cerberus in ME2 This was kind of solved in ME 1 though. Ash et all had a lot of issues with you bringing Alien nationals/ non humans aboard...including a Krogan Mercenary and a Turian?! of all things...and yet since Shepard had authority outside of the Alliance same thing applied owing to them again being a Spectre in ME 3. If Ash had an issue with it there is always the airlock.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 9, 2021 21:30:55 GMT
Yea hI don't really caer about the bum shots I play ME for it's story no tthat. Yeah i twould have been nice t ohave he rback but I can see why she didn't asfor one you'er back wit hthe Alliance and Cerberus and the Alliance aren't exactly buddiesshe knows not many people would trus ther even i fShepard did and assuming yo usaved Kaidan rather than Ash on Virmire you alerad ykind of have you rSentinel given she is kind of a Sentinel herself. TBH the asm ereally goes for Kasumi no one's really going to trust her with her reputation. I miss them too but I can see why the ytry not to gettoo involved because to win a war your team has to be able to trust on eanother especially when going up against something as tough as the Reapers. It's why I think tha t bot hAsh and Kaidan aer questioning you in the beginning as they're not sure they trus tyou anymore becaus of the fact you worked with Cerberus in ME2 This was kind of solved in ME 1 though. Ash et all had a lot of issues with you bringing Alien nationals/ non humans aboard...including a Krogan Mercenary and a Turian?! of all things...and yet since Shepard had authority outside of the Alliance same thing applied owing to them again being a Spectre in ME 3. If Ash had an issue with it there is always the airlock. Yeah but I think she at leas tlearned through themission against Saren in ME1 tha tno tall aliens aer monsters to be feared and shunned though. Fo rexampl eon one playthrough wher I had Tali die sh ekind of said that |Tali felt like a little sister to her or something if I remembe rcorrectly so I think she kind of grows to like them in the end or at least feels she can a tleas ttrust the ones she worked with on that mission.
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Post by sugarless on Jul 9, 2021 21:39:25 GMT
Yeah you're right about both Miranda and Kasumi. No one in the Alliance would trust them. I just really liked them as companions. I guess some of the people on Shepard's crew were shady in ME2. After meeting up with Kasumi in ME3 if you do her mini mission, she joins the alliance (albeit reluctantly until you entice her with the tech laying about), and Miranda in her farewell speel, says that she ended up joining the alliance as they couldn't afford to be picky.
Shepard should have gone out of his/her way to help Miranda after ME2. Jacob was very quickly re-enlisted by Hackett after the rescuing of the the ex-Cerberus scientists so why not Miri. She would have been an awesome squaddie in ME3 and a huge boon for the Alliance.
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Post by talyn82 on Jul 9, 2021 22:05:21 GMT
Yeah you're right about both Miranda and Kasumi. No one in the Alliance would trust them. I just really liked them as companions. I guess some of the people on Shepard's crew were shady in ME2. After meeting up with Kasumi in ME3 if you do her mini mission, she joins the alliance (albeit reluctantly until you entice her with the tech laying about), and Miranda in her farewell speel, says that she ended up joining the alliance as they couldn't afford to be picky.
Shepard should have gone out of his/her way to help Miranda after ME2. Jacob was very quickly re-enlisted by Hackett after the rescuing of the the ex-Cerberus scientists so why not Miri. She would have been an awesome squaddie in ME3 and a huge boon for the Alliance.
Woah! Kasumi was in ME3? I completely missed her in my first playthrough. I figured she was cut from the game. I agree with you about how Shepard should have helped Miranda when it comes to the Alliance. I found it odd that Jacob was quickly re-enlisted and Miranda was shunned. I was hoping she'd join the crew at least unofficially.
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Post by sugarless on Jul 9, 2021 22:10:45 GMT
After meeting up with Kasumi in ME3 if you do her mini mission, she joins the alliance (albeit reluctantly until you entice her with the tech laying about), and Miranda in her farewell speel, says that she ended up joining the alliance as they couldn't afford to be picky.
Shepard should have gone out of his/her way to help Miranda after ME2. Jacob was very quickly re-enlisted by Hackett after the rescuing of the the ex-Cerberus scientists so why not Miri. She would have been an awesome squaddie in ME3 and a huge boon for the Alliance.
Woah! Kasumi was in ME3? I completely missed her in my first playthrough. I figured she was cut from the game. I agree with you about how Shepard should have helped Miranda when it comes to the Alliance. I found it odd that Jacob was quickly re-enlisted and Miranda was shunned. I was hoping she'd join the crew at least unofficially. You have to talk to the Salarian spectre who is waiting just outside Bailey's door at the Citadel to get that mission going, he doesn't stand out, but you can converse with him - it's a relatively minor quest but you get to see/hear Kasumi again which means you also get to farewell her via the vidcomm toward the end.
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Post by talyn82 on Jul 9, 2021 22:11:24 GMT
This was kind of solved in ME 1 though. Ash et all had a lot of issues with you bringing Alien nationals/ non humans aboard...including a Krogan Mercenary and a Turian?! of all things...and yet since Shepard had authority outside of the Alliance same thing applied owing to them again being a Spectre in ME 3. If Ash had an issue with it there is always the airlock. Yeah but I think she at leas tlearned through themission against Saren in ME1 tha tno tall aliens aer monsters to be feared and shunned though. Fo rexampl eon one playthrough wher I had Tali die sh ekind of said that |Tali felt like a little sister to her or something if I remembe rcorrectly so I think she kind of grows to like them in the end or at least feels she can a tleas ttrust the ones she worked with on that mission. Well in the mission where Shepard goes to the wreckage of the original Normandy. There is a datapad by Pressley, in it he starts off by saying how he was against Shepard recruiting aliens. In the last entry he says after Sovereign he'd gladly give his life for any of the alien crew. So you see Pressley was anti alien also, he tells you this when you speak to him about Nihilus. But in the end he had a change of heart.
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Post by talyn82 on Jul 9, 2021 22:13:08 GMT
Woah! Kasumi was in ME3? I completely missed her in my first playthrough. I figured she was cut from the game. I agree with you about how Shepard should have helped Miranda when it comes to the Alliance. I found it odd that Jacob was quickly re-enlisted and Miranda was shunned. I was hoping she'd join the crew at least unofficially. You have to talk to the Salarian spectre who is waiting just outside Bailey's door at the Citadel to get that mission going, he doesn't stand out, but you can converse with him - it's a relatively minor quest but you get to see/hear Kasumi again which means you also get to farewell her via the vidcomm toward the end. Lol, wait there was a Salarian Spectre? But I will keep an eye out for them, thanks!
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Post by sugarless on Jul 9, 2021 22:15:26 GMT
You have to talk to the Salarian spectre who is waiting just outside Bailey's door at the Citadel to get that mission going, he doesn't stand out, but you can converse with him - it's a relatively minor quest but you get to see/hear Kasumi again which means you also get to farewell her via the vidcomm toward the end. Lol, wait there was a Salarian Spectre? But I will keep an eye out for them, thanks! Damn I don't wanna spoil this for ya! Not saying anymore. But the Salarian spectre is only visible as of your "second" visit to the Citadel in ME3.
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Post by talyn82 on Jul 9, 2021 22:18:44 GMT
Lol, wait there was a Salarian Spectre? But I will keep an eye out for them, thanks! Damn I don't wanna spoil this for ya! Not saying anymore. But the Salarian spectre is only visible as of your "second" visit to the Citadel in ME3. Lol, it's okay I finished the game I just missed these things my first time through. I will keep an eye out for them, thanks!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 9, 2021 23:36:12 GMT
After meeting up with Kasumi in ME3 if you do her mini mission, she joins the alliance (albeit reluctantly until you entice her with the tech laying about), and Miranda in her farewell speel, says that she ended up joining the alliance as they couldn't afford to be picky.
Shepard should have gone out of his/her way to help Miranda after ME2. Jacob was very quickly re-enlisted by Hackett after the rescuing of the the ex-Cerberus scientists so why not Miri. She would have been an awesome squaddie in ME3 and a huge boon for the Alliance.
Woah! Kasumi was in ME3? I completely missed her in my first playthrough. I figured she was cut from the game. I agree with you about how Shepard should have helped Miranda when it comes to the Alliance. I found it odd that Jacob was quickly re-enlisted and Miranda was shunned. I was hoping she'd join the crew at least unofficially. Jacob was a former Alliance officer though before he joined Cerberus I believe he tells you this when you first meet him and speak to him or at least a tsom epoint in tos eearly conversations with him. Miranda on the other hand has always been with Cerberus
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 9, 2021 23:37:43 GMT
Yeah but I think she at leas tlearned through themission against Saren in ME1 tha tno tall aliens aer monsters to be feared and shunned though. Fo rexampl eon one playthrough wher I had Tali die sh ekind of said that |Tali felt like a little sister to her or something if I remembe rcorrectly so I think she kind of grows to like them in the end or at least feels she can a tleas ttrust the ones she worked with on that mission. Well in the mission where Shepard goes to the wreckage of the original Normandy. There is a datapad by Pressley, in it he starts off by saying how he was against Shepard recruiting aliens. In the last entry he says after Sovereign he'd gladly give his life for any of the alien crew. So you see Pressley was anti alien also, he tells you this when you speak to him about Nihilus. But in the end he had a change of heart. Yeah I remember that.
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talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on Jul 10, 2021 0:15:04 GMT
Woah! Kasumi was in ME3? I completely missed her in my first playthrough. I figured she was cut from the game. I agree with you about how Shepard should have helped Miranda when it comes to the Alliance. I found it odd that Jacob was quickly re-enlisted and Miranda was shunned. I was hoping she'd join the crew at least unofficially. Jacob was a former Alliance officer though before he joined Cerberus I believe he tells you this when you first meet him and speak to him or at least a tsom epoint in tos eearly conversations with him. Miranda on the other hand has always been with Cerberus You're right he mentions that when you first meet him. I also remember Miranda saying she was recruited by Cerberus.
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Post by a_mouse on Jul 10, 2021 0:49:05 GMT
The underlying humor of the scene is that Shep is discussing Miranda's perfect "genes" (which sounds like "jeans"). In my opinion re-edited version brings out this humor even more clearly.
The argument that the pure art of the scene has been lost in supplication to the PC gods is ludicrous. Objectification of women in video games is widespread, and the ME OT is no exception. These minor edits in MELE hardly qualify as a significant step to rectify the situation. They deserve neither great praise nor condemnation.
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malgus
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Post by malgus on Jul 10, 2021 1:28:52 GMT
The underlying humor of the scene is that Shep is discussing Miranda's perfect "genes" (which sounds like "jeans"). In my opinion re-edited version brings out this humor even more clearly. The argument that the pure art of the scene has been lost in supplication to the PC gods is ludicrous. Objectification of women in video games is widespread, and the ME OT is no exception. These minor edits in MELE hardly qualify as a significant step to rectify the situation. They deserve neither great praise nor condemnation. Far from me to pretend that Bioware deserves a huge praise for editing these stupid butt shots, it's the reaction that happen that really surprised me where people are shouting " censorship" all over the place as if apparently any changes related to this means censoring the games... In 2010 we were making fun of those shots, they were ridicilous but far from destroying the immersion on a large scale. It was a flaw in the cinematography but a VERY small one, it made it a bit harder to take the scene seriously BUT the writing was strong enough to keep the game great even with the cinematography failing something. It's like Elanos Haliat, it was stupid in mass effect 1 when the guy refers negatively to human as "shepard's kind" and the turian filter in his voice but he himself is human for some reason... It does not break the story completely, Mass effect 1 is still an awesome game from a writing aspects, but the visuals just failed to be consistent with what the writers did. And that is why in the legendary edition he is given a turian model to be consistent, nobody is saying that it's ruining the creator's vision or artistic integrity for changing that. The cinematography and the visual failed the writing at that moment, it happens and it was improved in the legendary edition. BW does not deserve huge praise for any of those two changes, Elanos should not have been human in the first place and it's minimal change in the long run, but still one for the better. Just like the ridicilous butt shots were stupid but removing them is a minuscule improvment, but still one.
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malgus
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Post by malgus on Jul 10, 2021 1:31:42 GMT
An effort post?!? I thought this was a thing of days gone by, never to be seen again. .. I read all of it, and have very little to say about it. I will just nod my head in agreement. The visuals presented should match the source material and remain true to the written character, and the camera work in ME2 was a disservice to the story. As a younger man at the time, it really didn't bother me or break my immersion, but it didn't help the story either... it was an inserted ass-shot for no reason other than (most) boys like butts on a woman, and many of these boys never get to see one this close. Lol. Oh effort post are there to stay, it might get rarer from time to time but I don't intend to put less effort in my threads. And yes these shots were just stupid, it's not much different than the ridicilous scene of Alice Eve in her underwear in star trek into darkness. Sometime fanservice get out of control and is prioritized rather than consistency for the tone or ambiance.
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malgus
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Post by malgus on Jul 10, 2021 2:28:40 GMT
AHGLOK
Taking a decision about making a few changes of angle require very little time when it's clear that it makes no sense for the story. You are inventing that it takes a lot of times for an executive to see that these were stupid shots when it simply required a quick conversation for them to do (I will show you later about this). And yes the gazey camera was talked about back in the day. Perhaps not as much as it is right now but yes there were parodies of people who laugh about these shots because of how immature they were. The people took them as they were, stupid but certainly not game breaking. Because it was just a bit of immaturity in a fantastic trilogy but still people did talked about them and remembered them.
Also BW did not brag about the change, they simply said in interview that they realise it made no sense and decided to modify it. It's the clickbait video or article who made people upset over minor changes for the legendary edition by putting huge attention on it with clickbait titles and THEN the people who were saying it was censorship did the rest. If you want to tell me that they brag about it, tell me where they did. Because this is the only thing they have said in the interview :
“[Character and environment director] Kevin [Meek] actually called out some camera cuts that were just… why was that focusing on Miranda’s butt?” Walters said. “So in some cases we said, ‘Okay, we can make a change there.’” Walters indicated that there weren’t changes to specific character models, but instead updates to where cameras were angled.
That’s it, do you want to tell me where the bragging is here? It did not required a long discussion for them, they just realised it was ridiculous and changed it. They did not brag that they were the next martin Luther king or the suffragettes for women in video games.
I don't know what you mean by "Making an Hackett ending" but doing another completely different ending means making it from scratch, it means far more resources than just changing an angle during a few scenes. They are not comparable at all in terms of resources it takes to make them.
And It seems that the whataboutism is strong here, if you want to complain about kaidan not being available for Shepard in Mass effect 1 it is a completely different subject. I am not even saying you are wrong about that, heck I think that Kaidan should have been available for maleshep since 2007. But right now it's not the topic, you are using it as a deflection. No matter your arguments about gay romance inclusion (or exclusion) for both mass effect 1 and 2, that does not mean the butt shots of Miranda Lawson are suddenly less stupid or less tone deaf. They still are no matter if kaidan should be bi in the first ME.
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