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Post by Sonya on Aug 11, 2021 18:30:54 GMT
Strongest/weakest based on lore like I said...I have given some pretty clear examples like physical combat capabilities,biotics, abilities with weapons, intelligence in combat situations (which includes being cunning, setting up traps which is why I had Kasumi higher than some people...). In this case Morinth is one of the strongest for sure with one "BUT" (like any other teammember has any "BUT"). She is cunning, smart, experienced, strong-willed addict and serial killer (it is an advantage in her case). Morinth told how she escaped: a twin of her own mother. Using actor skills, imitating Samara's voice - and she is gone. According to Samara's words Morinth escaped when was indeed very-very young (how many children, teens are so cunning?). Further she's been avoiding Samara (and others I suspect) for many-many years, living alone. She's been killing others, hunting. Plus Samara told some other Morinth's feats like turning a whole village into slaves worshipping Morinth and attacking Samara after that so Samara had to kill the villagers. Morinth is a predator working and living alone. I used Morinth in combat. Her Dominate power turned out to be very useful. Got Morinth ASAP and took to every organic mission including SM. Her drones were great distractions. This "BUT" Morinth has: even if she's been killing for hell of years, she met afterall Shepard who could resist her power. Thus it is like rng: Morinth meets strong-willed person like Shepard (pretty sure Javik could be from the same category) and Morinth is screwed probably as she can just use some other tricks: in ME2 Samara came and they both started throwing objects, using biotic slaps. Could Shepard kill Morinth if not for Samara? Who knows. But considering Morinth age - it is a rare thing. But still can happen. In ME she is dangerous cunning predator addict serial killer. That she managed to survive makes her a strong character.
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ALTBOULI
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 11, 2021 19:45:31 GMT
Garrus isn't a sniper, being good at sniping doesn't make you a sniper. He was a c-sec operative and before that part of the Turian military. He mentions in ME2 that they would often do hand-to-hand sparring on Turian ships before a battle which he excelled in. "Actually, she and I were the two best hand to hand combatants on the ship". Strongest/weakest based on lore like I said...I have given some pretty clear examples like physical combat capabilities,biotics, abilities with weapons, intelligence in combat situations (which includes being cunning, setting up traps which is why I had Kasumi higher than some people...). You could argue one point as to why you believe someone is strongest/weakest if you wanted like Grunt being extremely powerful in terms of strength and size even for a Krogan his age, its a subjective topic and not a particularly serious one either He had "reach" and she had "flexibility" - Lore does not say either was necessarily the "strongest" combatants on the ship. The thing is that each squadmate, lore-wise, has specific talents. They are all the best at something... and are not so good at other things. Tali is the "strongest" engineer. Kasumi is the "strongest" stealth operative. Lore-wise... Garrus' strength IS sniping. James , lore-wise, has physical strength and is probably the "strongest" human physically... according to lore... "check out these guns" and can do 182 chin-ups... although both Krogan (being 800 lbs) are stronger physically than any of the other species. We don't really know, lore-wise, whether Wrex or Grunt is physically stronger... because they don't really get a chance to square off against each other at the Citadel DLC party... again... all according to the LORE.
If you're boosting Garrus up the list just because he was Turian military... Nyreen Kandros should be up there on the list as well... plus she has the added strength of being biotic.
The point is he was among thr best at hand to hand combat on the ship he was on, a ship that probably had 100's if not 1000's of turians on it. He was hired as archangel to be a tactics member of the team and infiltrator, that's not the same as a dedicated sniper. Most of the teammembers don't have a dedicated purpose, alot of them were recruited due convenience, James Vega wasn't recruited to the 'muscles for shepard, he was simply recruited to guard shepards jail cell and to escort him to the hearing, he was basically on the Normandy because he evacuated when the reapers attacked
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ALTBOULI
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 11, 2021 20:28:59 GMT
Strongest/weakest based on lore like I said...I have given some pretty clear examples like physical combat capabilities,biotics, abilities with weapons, intelligence in combat situations (which includes being cunning, setting up traps which is why I had Kasumi higher than some people...). In this case Morinth is one of the strongest for sure with one "BUT" (like any other teammember has any "BUT"). She is cunning, smart, experienced, strong-willed addict and serial killer (it is an advantage in her case). Morinth told how she escaped: a twin of her own mother. Using actor skills, imitating Samara's voice - and she is gone. According to Samara's words Morinth escaped when was indeed very-very young (how many children, teens are so cunning?). Further she's been avoiding Samara (and others I suspect) for many-many years, leaving alone. She's been killing others, hunting. Plus Samara told some other Morinth's feats like turning a whole village into slaves worshipping Morinth and attacking Samara after that so Samara had to kill the villagers. Morinth is a predator working and leaving alone. I used Morinth in combat. Her Dominate power turned out to be very useful. Got Morinth ASAP and took to every organic mission including SM. Her drones were great distractions. This "BUT" Morinth has: even if she's been killing for hell of years, she met afterall Shepard who could resist her power. Thus it is like rng: Morinth meets strong-willed person like Shepard (pretty sure Javik could be from the same category) and Morinth is screwed probably as she can just use some other tricks: in ME2 Samara came and they both started throwing objects, using biotic slaps. Could Shepard kill Morinth if not for Samara? Who knows. But considering Morinth age - it is a rare thing. But still can happen. In ME she is dangerous cunning predator addict serial killer. That she managed to survive makes her a strong character. Yeah I agree with most of that, Morinth definitely is one of the strongest, if ME2 is anything to go by she appears to be as strong biotically as her mother (though it would have been interesting to see who would have won if Shepard didnt interfere, should have been an option really during loyalty mission). If I understand it correctly she (Morinth) also gets stronger every time she bonds with someone and she had been doing it for 100's of years so she probably would end up being stronger than her mother long term. The reason I didnt include Morinth in my list was simple, you cant have her and Samara in the team and I could be wrong but it seems to me that canonically Morinth is supposed to die in ME2, just look at what happens to her in ME3 if you do choose her over her mother. A lot of speculation I know and if I throw who I think actually survives and look at only who is available regardless of the long term consequences then I would have her equal to her mother
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talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on Aug 11, 2021 23:39:17 GMT
You shouldn't discount Liara because she is an archeologist. All Asari are trained in biotics from a young age according to what she says, after saving the students at the Grissom Academy. Some Asari are more powerful than others, like Samara for example is more powerful than Liara due to her age and experience. Likewise the Matriach Benezia was more powerful than Samara.Based on what though? Their both Matriachs according to the lore and most of the Benezia fight is her sending waves of asari commandos and geth to fight you, she does very little fighting herself.Her background see to be that she was teaching religion and philosophy and was seen as a spiritual leader to other asari (she wasn't a Matriach specialised in combat). Samara on the other hand is also at Matriach stage and has been fighting since she was young (according to the lore she was part of a merc group as a young asari and ended up wiping out the whole group when she found out they were selling slaves to the collectors). Since then she joined the Justicars and alone has been hunting some of the most powerful biotics, the fact that she has been doing this for several hundred years and is still alive speaks volumes for her combat abilities. When did I say Samara was weak? I only said Benezia could beat her because I knew Samara was old, but I did not she was old as a Matriarch. Also in the centuries that Benezia was alive she wasn't always a spiritual leader. She could had been a merc at one point in her life. I don't know she was not as fleshed out as Samara.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2021 0:29:26 GMT
He had "reach" and she had "flexibility" - Lore does not say either was necessarily the "strongest" combatants on the ship. The thing is that each squadmate, lore-wise, has specific talents. They are all the best at something... and are not so good at other things. Tali is the "strongest" engineer. Kasumi is the "strongest" stealth operative. Lore-wise... Garrus' strength IS sniping. James , lore-wise, has physical strength and is probably the "strongest" human physically... according to lore... "check out these guns" and can do 182 chin-ups... although both Krogan (being 800 lbs) are stronger physically than any of the other species. We don't really know, lore-wise, whether Wrex or Grunt is physically stronger... because they don't really get a chance to square off against each other at the Citadel DLC party... again... all according to the LORE.
If you're boosting Garrus up the list just because he was Turian military... Nyreen Kandros should be up there on the list as well... plus she has the added strength of being biotic.
The point is he was among thr best at hand to hand combat on the ship he was on, a ship that probably had 100's if not 1000's of turians on it. He was hired as archangel to be a tactics member of the team and infiltrator, that's not the same as a dedicated sniper. Most of the teammembers don't have a dedicated purpose, alot of them were recruited due convenience, James Vega wasn't recruited to the 'muscles for shepard, he was simply recruited to guard shepards jail cell and to escort him to the hearing, he was basically on the Normandy because he evacuated when the reapers attacked Garrus' dossier from TIM indicates that he is a "noted sniper." During his recruitment mission, he stays up top since he can do a lot of damage from that point. During his LM, he takes up a sniper position. He is a sniper. I don't care if he's dedicated. His talent is sniping and it's what he likes to do in combat. Tali confirms that he likes to keep things at a distance in her conversations with him in ME3. Some practice sparring on the ship as a young recruit doesn't make him the "strongest" melee fighter among the squadmates.
Most of the squadmates do have intentionally varied talents from each other. That's the nature of this game regarding combat. Those talents are also in the lore and are, for the most part, reflected in their skillsets and in the sort of weapons they are trained in (in ME1) and which weapons they carry in ME2. Garrus is trained in snipers and assault rifles. Ashley, on the other hand, is trained in all weapons. James carries a shotgun and an assault rifle.
For James, the lore that he is physically strong is apparent in the game... as reflected in his Citadel DLC conversations at the party and with Shepard when doing chin ups. He spends a lot of his time building up his body. He is stronger than Garrus physically.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 12, 2021 3:47:38 GMT
Based on what though? Their both Matriachs according to the lore and most of the Benezia fight is her sending waves of asari commandos and geth to fight you, she does very little fighting herself.Her background see to be that she was teaching religion and philosophy and was seen as a spiritual leader to other asari (she wasn't a Matriach specialised in combat). Samara on the other hand is also at Matriach stage and has been fighting since she was young (according to the lore she was part of a merc group as a young asari and ended up wiping out the whole group when she found out they were selling slaves to the collectors). Since then she joined the Justicars and alone has been hunting some of the most powerful biotics, the fact that she has been doing this for several hundred years and is still alive speaks volumes for her combat abilities. When did I say Samara was weak? I only said Benezia could beat her because I knew Samara was old, but I did not she was old as a Matriarch. Also in the centuries that Benezia was alive she wasn't always a spiritual leader. She could had been a merc at one point in her life. I don't know she was not as fleshed out as Samara. I never claimed you did I dont think age or being in the Matriach stage specifically means 1 Asari is more powerful than another, its suggested that asari biotic power does get stronger with age but that also doesn't necessarily mean they become better at combat overall. In the case of Benezia we don't know what she was doing as her backstory isn't fleshed out (so its hard to say how powerful she real is in a combat situation). According to the lore she found out about Saryns plan to bring back the reapers and along with her followers and bodyguards she approached Saryn to try and resolve things peacefully. However she and her followers/bodyguards ultimately ended up enslaved by Soverign. I can only judge her strength based on what we know and imo I believe Samara would win in a hypothetical battle purely due to being known for having a lot of combat experience.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 12, 2021 4:23:54 GMT
The point is he was among thr best at hand to hand combat on the ship he was on, a ship that probably had 100's if not 1000's of turians on it. He was hired as archangel to be a tactics member of the team and infiltrator, that's not the same as a dedicated sniper. Most of the teammembers don't have a dedicated purpose, alot of them were recruited due convenience, James Vega wasn't recruited to the 'muscles for shepard, he was simply recruited to guard shepards jail cell and to escort him to the hearing, he was basically on the Normandy because he evacuated when the reapers attacked Garrus' dossier from TIM indicates that he is a "noted sniper." During his recruitment mission, he stays up top since he can do a lot of damage from that point. During his LM, he takes up a sniper position. He is a sniper. I don't care if he's dedicated. His talent is sniping and it's what he likes to do in combat. Tali confirms that he likes to keep things at a distance in her conversations with him in ME3. Some practice sparring on the ship as a young recruit doesn't make him the "strongest" melee fighter among the squadmates.
Most of the squadmates do have intentionally varied talents from each other. That's the nature of this game regarding combat. Those talents are also in the lore and are, for the most part, reflected in their skillsets and in the sort of weapons they are trained in (in ME1) and which weapons they carry in ME2. Garrus is trained in snipers and assault rifles. Ashley, on the other hand, is trained in all weapons. James carries a shotgun and an assault rifle.
For James, the lore that he is physically strong is apparent in the game... as reflected in his Citadel DLC conversations at the party and with Shepard when doing chin ups. He spends a lot of his time building up his body. He is stronger than Garrus physically. You seem to be jumping to conclusions a lot so let's break it down "Archangel - Small-unit tactical expertise - Omni-tool expert and noted sniper Archangel is a mercenary commander whose operations are noted for their technical expertise and strategic brilliance. He is responsible for high-profile attacks on gang leaders on Omega and can likely be found there." This is the illusive man dossier you mentioned, here you focused on 1 small point about him being known for being good with a sniper but he was recruited for strategic expertise, illusive man suggested him essentially for being tactical in the way he wages war not specifically for being a sniper. Now look at Thanes dossier: "Thane Krios - Quick-kill biotic specialist - Expert sniper Thane Krios is a drell trained from childhood as an elite assassin, proficient in both long-range sniping kills and close infiltration. He has slowed his activities in recent years but is rumored to have a target on Illium." The focus on being proficient at long distance attacks in particular, sniping is more apparent here, one is a noted sniper (Garrus) the other is an Expert sniper who is proficient in long range sniping (Thane). If anything Thane would be considerd the sniper of the team.... I didnt never said he was the strongest melee fighter among the squadmates, I said he was proven to be proficient with hand-to-hand combat which means he isn't just good with an assault rifle or sniper. Do you think he could just go around sniping people as a c-sec officer? No he would have to arrest people which usually means getting up close and personal. Now your references to James Vega, you seem to be equating him doing push ups and lifting weights as an indication that he is good at combat or at least more proficient at close quarters. That's not how fighting works though...you can be physically stronger than someone and still lose to them in a fist fight. Like I mentioned James was essentially a jailer who found himself on the Normandy (and I'm pretty sure him guarding Shepard was essentially a demotion for insubordination). He wasn't recruited to be the strong man of the team or anything like that. Read into Vegas lore and you will find he isn't particularly smart, like charging at a krogan and getting beat-down only for a squadmate at the time to save him last minute. In fact in much of his lore he seems to be getting into situations he can barely handle and either getting bailed out by a friend/squadmate, having some luck to barely survive or not really achieving what he set out to do. Vega is definitely among the weakest squadmates in combat imo and I have him there for a reason based on what we know...
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Post by michaeln7 on Aug 12, 2021 6:29:26 GMT
On the one hand, biotics are powerful. On the other hand, the physical mnemonics required means that a simple restraint can prevent their use.
So I suppose I'll subdivide into two categories: Physical and Power
Physical weakest? Liara. Asari are no physically stronger that a human female, so while by no means discounted, that puts her in a tough spot in melee.
Physical strongest? Wrex/Grunt. Krogan are walking tanks, the first step in fist-fighting a Krogan is, don't.
Power weakest? James/Ashley. No biotic abilities and no technical aptitude beyond basic proficiency. Weapon and ammo training are impressive, but accessing computer systems, knowledge of engineering, and being able to utilize natural law as a weapon just takes the cake.
Power strongest? Liara. She's basically 20 in the "human" sense, but already has incredible biotic power that lets her face off against a Spectre, the Shadow Broker, AND lets her keep up with physically demanding situations.
Middle-ground? Kaidan and Miranda. Sentinels are amazing. If Vanguard didn't exist I'd love them even more. Miranda has a stronger powerset but Kaidan is tough, capable, AND can use Assault Rifles, unique among the power-focused characters. Either one, the squad is more capable with them in it.
Anyway, that's my 2 credits.
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Post by talyn82 on Aug 12, 2021 21:00:49 GMT
When did I say Samara was weak? I only said Benezia could beat her because I knew Samara was old, but I did not she was old as a Matriarch. Also in the centuries that Benezia was alive she wasn't always a spiritual leader. She could had been a merc at one point in her life. I don't know she was not as fleshed out as Samara. I never claimed you did I dont think age or being in the Matriach stage specifically means 1 Asari is more powerful than another, its suggested that asari biotic power does get stronger with age but that also doesn't necessarily mean they become better at combat overall. In the case of Benezia we don't know what she was doing as her backstory isn't fleshed out (so its hard to say how powerful she real is in a combat situation). According to the lore she found out about Saryns plan to bring back the reapers and along with her followers and bodyguards she approached Saryn to try and resolve things peacefully. However she and her followers/bodyguards ultimately ended up enslaved by Soverign. I can only judge her strength based on what we know and imo I believe Samara would win in a hypothetical battle purely due to being known for having a lot of combat experience. My reasoning was since Benezia was a Matriarch she would have some benefits like stronger biotic's. But like you say we know nothing about her past before ME1. She could have dedicated her full 1000 years to her religion, or she may have become religious when she became Matiarch. But based on what we seen and know, I agree Samara is the better fighter between the two.
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Upggrade
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Post by Upggrade on Aug 12, 2021 21:33:47 GMT
Strongest is a tie between Jack and Samara. Biotics can control gravity with their fucking minds. If they weren't gimped for game balance these two could handle the entire game themselves.
I'd say weakest is Kasumi. Her whole schtick is avoiding confrontations, she'd fold in a fight.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 2:47:57 GMT
Garrus' dossier from TIM indicates that he is a "noted sniper." During his recruitment mission, he stays up top since he can do a lot of damage from that point. During his LM, he takes up a sniper position. He is a sniper. I don't care if he's dedicated. His talent is sniping and it's what he likes to do in combat. Tali confirms that he likes to keep things at a distance in her conversations with him in ME3. Some practice sparring on the ship as a young recruit doesn't make him the "strongest" melee fighter among the squadmates.
Most of the squadmates do have intentionally varied talents from each other. That's the nature of this game regarding combat. Those talents are also in the lore and are, for the most part, reflected in their skillsets and in the sort of weapons they are trained in (in ME1) and which weapons they carry in ME2. Garrus is trained in snipers and assault rifles. Ashley, on the other hand, is trained in all weapons. James carries a shotgun and an assault rifle.
For James, the lore that he is physically strong is apparent in the game... as reflected in his Citadel DLC conversations at the party and with Shepard when doing chin ups. He spends a lot of his time building up his body. He is stronger than Garrus physically. You seem to be jumping to conclusions a lot so let's break it down "Archangel - Small-unit tactical expertise - Omni-tool expert and noted sniper Archangel is a mercenary commander whose operations are noted for their technical expertise and strategic brilliance. He is responsible for high-profile attacks on gang leaders on Omega and can likely be found there." This is the illusive man dossier you mentioned, here you focused on 1 small point about him being known for being good with a sniper but he was recruited for strategic expertise, illusive man suggested him essentially for being tactical in the way he wages war not specifically for being a sniper. Now look at Thanes dossier: "Thane Krios - Quick-kill biotic specialist - Expert sniper Thane Krios is a drell trained from childhood as an elite assassin, proficient in both long-range sniping kills and close infiltration. He has slowed his activities in recent years but is rumored to have a target on Illium." The focus on being proficient at long distance attacks in particular, sniping is more apparent here, one is a noted sniper (Garrus) the other is an Expert sniper who is proficient in long range sniping (Thane). If anything Thane would be considerd the sniper of the team.... I didnt never said he was the strongest melee fighter among the squadmates, I said he was proven to be proficient with hand-to-hand combat which means he isn't just good with an assault rifle or sniper. Do you think he could just go around sniping people as a c-sec officer? No he would have to arrest people which usually means getting up close and personal. Now your references to James Vega, you seem to be equating him doing push ups and lifting weights as an indication that he is good at combat or at least more proficient at close quarters. That's not how fighting works though...you can be physically stronger than someone and still lose to them in a fist fight. Like I mentioned James was essentially a jailer who found himself on the Normandy (and I'm pretty sure him guarding Shepard was essentially a demotion for insubordination). He wasn't recruited to be the strong man of the team or anything like that. Read into Vegas lore and you will find he isn't particularly smart, like charging at a krogan and getting beat-down only for a squadmate at the time to save him last minute. In fact in much of his lore he seems to be getting into situations he can barely handle and either getting bailed out by a friend/squadmate, having some luck to barely survive or not really achieving what he set out to do. Vega is definitely among the weakest squadmates in combat imo and I have him there for a reason based on what we know... He's STILL a "noted sniper" in the dossier and he's noted as being a sniper by other NPC's in the game. You're the one in error by saying outright that TIM didn't hire him as a sniper. He did. It's in the lore... he's a sniper. He doesn't have to be a "dedicated sniper" to not require great amounts of physical strength in combat. He needs a great aim... which is also noted in the lore that he has a great aim... and that's why he winds up callibrating Normandy's guns. Shepard doesn't use him as a tactician at any point in the game. Shepard is the tactician for all three games.
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ALTBOULI
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 13, 2021 4:30:57 GMT
You seem to be jumping to conclusions a lot so let's break it down "Archangel - Small-unit tactical expertise - Omni-tool expert and noted sniper Archangel is a mercenary commander whose operations are noted for their technical expertise and strategic brilliance. He is responsible for high-profile attacks on gang leaders on Omega and can likely be found there." This is the illusive man dossier you mentioned, here you focused on 1 small point about him being known for being good with a sniper but he was recruited for strategic expertise, illusive man suggested him essentially for being tactical in the way he wages war not specifically for being a sniper. Now look at Thanes dossier: "Thane Krios - Quick-kill biotic specialist - Expert sniper Thane Krios is a drell trained from childhood as an elite assassin, proficient in both long-range sniping kills and close infiltration. He has slowed his activities in recent years but is rumored to have a target on Illium." The focus on being proficient at long distance attacks in particular, sniping is more apparent here, one is a noted sniper (Garrus) the other is an Expert sniper who is proficient in long range sniping (Thane). If anything Thane would be considerd the sniper of the team.... I didnt never said he was the strongest melee fighter among the squadmates, I said he was proven to be proficient with hand-to-hand combat which means he isn't just good with an assault rifle or sniper. Do you think he could just go around sniping people as a c-sec officer? No he would have to arrest people which usually means getting up close and personal. Now your references to James Vega, you seem to be equating him doing push ups and lifting weights as an indication that he is good at combat or at least more proficient at close quarters. That's not how fighting works though...you can be physically stronger than someone and still lose to them in a fist fight. Like I mentioned James was essentially a jailer who found himself on the Normandy (and I'm pretty sure him guarding Shepard was essentially a demotion for insubordination). He wasn't recruited to be the strong man of the team or anything like that. Read into Vegas lore and you will find he isn't particularly smart, like charging at a krogan and getting beat-down only for a squadmate at the time to save him last minute. In fact in much of his lore he seems to be getting into situations he can barely handle and either getting bailed out by a friend/squadmate, having some luck to barely survive or not really achieving what he set out to do. Vega is definitely among the weakest squadmates in combat imo and I have him there for a reason based on what we know... He's STILL a "noted sniper" in the dossier and he's noted as being a sniper by other NPC's in the game. You're the one in error by saying outright that TIM didn't hire him as a sniper. He did. It's in the lore... he's a sniper. He doesn't have to be a "dedicated sniper" to not require great amounts of physical strength in combat. He needs a great aim... which is also noted in the lore that he has a great aim... and that's why he winds up callibrating Normandy's guns. Shepard doesn't use him as a tactician at any point in the game. Shepard is the tactician for all three games. No he didn't lol the dossier literally talks about his tactical expertise then gives a detailed example of him recruiting and using a small squad to ambush gangs in Omega and tactically cripple them. A noted sniper means that's 1 of his skills he didn't say a dedicated sniper, and its not even his first skill mentioned lol. Again great aim doesn't equal sniper, he is proficient with an assault rifle and sniper. Squadmates mention he has a good aim (thats a skill, he's not a dedicated sniper). You seemed to be fixated on 1 sentence but then mention quotes from squadmates to back this up. OK which squadmates say Garrus is a sniper? Please provide examples. You keep talking about what weapon each squad mate has and that indicates their combat role? Zaed, Thane, Garrus, Legion can all use snipers and are proficient with them, Legion was an unexpected squad member, but do you think for the rest the illusive man specifically hired them as snipers? If Garrus was the dedicated sniper of the team, why doesn't he have tactical cloak? (the core sniper skill from ME2 and then ME3) You mentioned calibrating the weapons on the Normandy, you realise that has nothing to do with his ability to aim with a gun right? Calibration on a ship that has to fire a gun against a target that's 1000's of miles away can't be done by simply good aim, its computerised weapon guidance systems, Garrus does it because he (as his dossier noted) is an omni-tool expert and use that along with his other technical expertise to calibrate the guns, not by simply aiming. There is literally a soldier on the citadel berating his men for trying to wing it and aim by sight when firing via a ship practice drill "Damn straight! I dare to assume you ignorant jackasses know that space is empty. Once you fire this hunk of metal, it keeps going till it hits something. That can be a ship, or the planet behind that ship. It might go off into deep space and hit somebody else in ten thousand years. If you pull the trigger on this, you are ruining someone's day, somewhere and sometime. That is why you check your damn targets! That is why you wait for the computer to give you a damn firing solution! That is why, Serviceman Chung, we do not "eyeball it!" This is a weapon of mass destruction. You are not a cowboy shooting from the hip!"
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 13, 2021 6:56:56 GMT
Strongest is a tie between Jack and Samara. Biotics can control gravity with their fucking minds. If they weren't gimped for game balance these two could handle the entire game themselves. I'd say weakest is Kasumi. Her whole schtick is avoiding confrontations, she'd fold in a fight. Complete agreement here. I like other squadmates much better but these two are, lore-wise, hands down the strongest. They're even the only two who can stand up to the seeker swarms on the Collector base. No Miranda, not Jacob, not Thane, not Grunt and, had they been there, not Kaidan or Wrex. Weakest is, as you say, Kasumi. She's supposed to be a badass thief/spy but can she put on a freaking dress to hide her identity when going to a party hosted by her enemy? No, and she crazily doesn't really understand why she was turned away.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 8:52:13 GMT
The lore sometimes makes Biotics out to be the end-all, but I think this thread is drunk on blue milk.
Tech.
Garrus is no basic soldier. GTFO.
The game only ever presents one insanely powerful engineer - Shepard. Doesn't mean that anybody should be sleeping on Miranda because she is an average biotic.
The lore isn't a picture of consistency. Aria left Mordin alone, and it wasn't because she was a benevolent leader, Mordin was a legit badass.
1. Javik the Great 2. Wrex 3. Samara 4. Garrus 5. Jack 6. Thane 7. Zaeed 8. Miranda 9. Grunt 10. Liara 11. Mordin 12. EDI 13. Kaiden 14. Legion 15. Tali 16. Kasumi 17. Jacob 18. Ashley 19. James
EDI is tethered to the ship. Otherwise she would be higher. Experience matters, this is why Grunt and James score so low respectively.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 13, 2021 9:16:48 GMT
The lore sometimes makes Biotics out to be the end-all, but I think this thread is drunk on blue milk. Tech. Garrus is no basic soldier. GTFO. The game only ever presents one insanely powerful engineer - Shepard. Doesn't mean that anybody should be sleeping on Miranda because she is an average biotic. The lore isn't a picture of consistency. Aria left Mordin alone, and it wasn't because she was a benevolent leader, Mordin was a legit badass. 1. Javik the Great 2. Wrex 3. Samara 4. Garrus 5. Jack 6. Miranda 7. Zaeed 8. Grunt 9. Liara 10. Mordin 11. EDI 12. Kaiden 13. Legion 14. Tali 15. Kasumi 16. Ashley 17. James EDI is tethered to the ship. Otherwise she would be higher. Experience matters, this is why Grunt and James score so low respectively. Yup pretty much how I would have the list, Grunt is still relatively young and inexperienced + no biotics so probably would be lower than most of the strong biotic users. I think I would probably have zaeed ahead of Miranda though the illusive man states he's without a doubt the most feared merc and bounty hunter in the galaxy. Also Jacob didn't even make the list 🤣
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 9:26:57 GMT
Also Jacob didn't even make the list 🤣 Who? (lmao)
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Post by Sonya on Aug 13, 2021 10:56:18 GMT
I think I would probably have zaeed ahead of Miranda though the illusive man states he's without a doubt the most feared merc and bounty hunter in the galaxy. Indeed. Sticking out a gun and using threats is usually more effective during interrogations than sticking out one's ass and using velvet voice.
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Post by steppinrazor on Aug 13, 2021 12:25:12 GMT
I feel like Turians are naturally physically stronger than humans. I seem to remember Saren picking up Shepard one handed. Vega is not physically stronger than Garrus lol.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 12:31:04 GMT
I feel like Turians are naturally physically stronger than humans. I seem to remember Saren picking up Shepard one handed. Vega is not physically stronger than Garrus lol. Yep, picked my Soldier Boy Shep up on first playthrough. Tall, scary, mean and strong as fuck. Still not sure how Shep pulled that off in one game's worth of time passage tbh. Saren was a beast.
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Post by Sonya on Aug 13, 2021 13:13:21 GMT
I seem to remember Saren picking up Shepard one handed. By that point Saren had some upgrades. On the other hand, remember Garrus LM where he just dragged Harkin without any effort. Might be because it was just Harkin, plus Garrus was angry as f*k which adds him some points to be stronger.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 13:25:43 GMT
Updated my list, I left off Taylor (forgiveable) and Krios (hanging offense).
@taboul3h- rearranged Zaeed and Miranda per your thought, but Thane can take both of them even with his syndrome.
Edit: Pound for pound, a bird is much stronger than an ape. I know Turians aren't exactly birds, but we are monkeys. If Garrus weighs similar to a similar sized human, I'm going to guess he could toss that human like a ragdoll, no biotics necessary tyvm.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 13, 2021 13:56:59 GMT
Updated my list, I left off Taylor (forgiveable) and Krios (hanging offense). @taboul3h- rearranged Zaeed and Miranda per your thought, but Thane can take both of them even with his syndrome. Edit: Pound for pound, a bird is much stronger than an ape. I know Turians aren't exactly birds, but we are monkeys. If Garrus weighs similar to a similar sized human, I'm going to guess he could toss that human like a ragdoll, no biotics necessary tyvm. Thane's and interesting one because there isn't much lore around him but he's basically the John wick of Mass Effect (look how he basically solo's an army of merc's on his way to kill that Asari target in ME2,I forget her name) he's got biotics, is a marksman and is extremely proficient in hand to hand combat. If he gets the drop on you ur probably done (possibly the only ones surviving a possible ambush would be Wrex and Grunt) but if they know he's coming I still have The African Prothean, Wrex and Samara bodying him. Probably 4th on my list ahead of Garrus (he's been training to be an assassin since he was 6 and started killing people at 12 according to what I read). Half dead Thane gave Kai leng more than he bargained for "that assassin should be embarrassed, a terminally ill drell managed to stop him from reaching his target" he said that on his deathbed. Fully fit and active Thane would have solo'd him
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 22:03:03 GMT
Updated my list, I left off Taylor (forgiveable) and Krios (hanging offense). @taboul3h- rearranged Zaeed and Miranda per your thought, but Thane can take both of them even with his syndrome. Edit: Pound for pound, a bird is much stronger than an ape. I know Turians aren't exactly birds, but we are monkeys. If Garrus weighs similar to a similar sized human, I'm going to guess he could toss that human like a ragdoll, no biotics necessary tyvm. Thane's and interesting one because there isn't much lore around him but he's basically the John wick of Mass Effect (look how he basically solo's an army of merc's on his way to kill that Asari target in ME2,I forget her name) he's got biotics, is a marksman and is extremely proficient in hand to hand combat. If he gets the drop on you ur probably done (possibly the only ones surviving a possible ambush would be Wrex and Grunt) but if they know he's coming I still have The African Prothean, Wrex and Samara bodying him. Probably 4th on my list ahead of Garrus (he's been training to be an assassin since he was 6 and started killing people at 12 according to what I read). Half dead Thane gave Kai leng more than he bargained for "that assassin should be embarrassed, a terminally ill drell managed to stop him from reaching his target" he said that on his deathbed. Fully fit and active Thane would have solo'd him Thane is such an expert sniper, he opts to try to take out Kai Leng with several missed shots from his pistol and a melee rather than taking what was likely a clear sniper shot when Leng wouldn't have ever known what hit him. He also opts to take out Nassna and her mercs "up close and personal" rather than use his SR. Thane is one of the weakest characters in the game. Garrus is a sniper.
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Aug 13, 2021 22:05:06 GMT
To be fair to Thane oxygen's not making it to his head as much.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 13, 2021 22:15:07 GMT
ah yes Thane. Because he mentions he's dying, I would not have him on the squad. He's a liability. During the coup he shows the player what not to do when playing chicken. He was very successful. Thumbs up for that. On his deathbed, he will say the assassin should be embarrassed a terminally ill drell stopped him. I would put in a renegade interrupt for Shepard to say Hey Krios, had you shot the ponytail when you had the chance, it's possible you might not be on your deathbed.
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