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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 13, 2021 22:57:55 GMT
Thane's and interesting one because there isn't much lore around him but he's basically the John wick of Mass Effect (look how he basically solo's an army of merc's on his way to kill that Asari target in ME2,I forget her name) he's got biotics, is a marksman and is extremely proficient in hand to hand combat. If he gets the drop on you ur probably done (possibly the only ones surviving a possible ambush would be Wrex and Grunt) but if they know he's coming I still have The African Prothean, Wrex and Samara bodying him. Probably 4th on my list ahead of Garrus (he's been training to be an assassin since he was 6 and started killing people at 12 according to what I read). Half dead Thane gave Kai leng more than he bargained for "that assassin should be embarrassed, a terminally ill drell managed to stop him from reaching his target" he said that on his deathbed. Fully fit and active Thane would have solo'd him Thane is such an expert sniper, he opts to try to take out Kai Leng with several missed shots from his pistol and a melee rather than taking what was likely a clear sniper shot when Leng wouldn't have ever known what hit him. He also opts to take out Nassna and her mercs "up close and personal" rather than use his SR. Thane is one of the weakest characters in the game. Garrus is a sniper. OK cool, keep trolling a light-hearted thread
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 13, 2021 23:05:25 GMT
ah yes Thane. Because he mentions he's dying, I would not have him on the squad. He's a liability. During the coup he shows the player what not to do when playing chicken. He was very successful. Thumbs up for that. On his deathbed, he will say the assassin should be embarrassed a terminally ill drell stopped him. I would put in a renegade interrupt for Shepard to say Hey Krios, had you shot the ponytail when you had the chance, it's possible you might not be on your deathbed. Wasn't he at the later stages of his disease? Pretty sure he was a goner either way (can't remember was it actually the stab wound that killed him off in the end or the wound weakening him to the point that he succumbed to his disease?)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 0:02:18 GMT
Thane is such an expert sniper, he opts to try to take out Kai Leng with several missed shots from his pistol and a melee rather than taking what was likely a clear sniper shot when Leng wouldn't have ever known what hit him. He also opts to take out Nassna and her mercs "up close and personal" rather than use his SR. Thane is one of the weakest characters in the game. Garrus is a sniper. OK cool, keep trolling a light-hearted thread ... and who says I'm not being light-hearted? You're being overly defensive over any criticism about Garrus aren't you?... insisting that he's some sort of heavyweight melee artist when he's clearly a sniper. Thane is touted as being a sniper, but everyone knows that, during the Kai Lame fight, he comes off as though he's a complete idiot who impales himself on Leng's sword. His Hanar handlers were probably doing "jelly rolls" in their graves watching that one.
Actually, the only pair of Femshep's possible squaddie lovers that comes across as being halfway capable in cutscenes are Liara and lowly Jacob... who pulls a gymnastic move to get onto the shuttle during the Ex-Cerberus scientists mission that would turn any phantom in the game green with envy... and he even pulls it off while keeping his AR firing at the enemy. That alone should move him up the list.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 14, 2021 0:32:10 GMT
OK cool, keep trolling a light-hearted thread ... and who says I'm not being light-hearted? You're being overly defensive over any criticism about Garrus aren't you?... insisting that he's some sort of heavyweight melee artist when he's clearly a sniper. Thane is touted as being a sniper, but everyone knows that, during the Kai Lame fight, he comes off as though he's a complete idiot who impales himself on Leng's sword. His Hanar handlers were probably doing "jelly rolls" in their graves watching that one.
Actually, the only pair of Femshep's possible squaddie lovers that comes across as being halfway capable in cutscenes are Liara and lowly Jacob... who pulls a gymnastic move to get onto the shuttle during the Ex-Cerberus scientists mission that would turn any phantom in the game green with envy... and he even pulls it off while keeping his AR firing at the enemy. That alone should move him up the list.
OK Mr alt account 🤣
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Post by themikefest on Aug 14, 2021 0:54:38 GMT
Actually, the only pair of Femshep's possible squaddie lovers that comes across as being halfway capable in cutscenes are Liara Really? Which cutscenes are you referring to? It does move him to the top of the list. What were the ME3 squadmates doing while Taylor was providing cover fire for Shepard and Brynne? Reporter: Tell me squadmates, why couldn't you provide cover fire for the Commander? Vakarian: I was doing calibrations Vega: I was getting another tattoo t'soni: I was taking armor from one of the dead bodies to put on display as a prize Tali and Williams: We were drinking Alenko: I went to the local drugstore to get some aspirin for my headache. edibot: I was thinking of a new joke Javik: I don't care about you primitives
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 13:19:00 GMT
... and who says I'm not being light-hearted? You're being overly defensive over any criticism about Garrus aren't you?... insisting that he's some sort of heavyweight melee artist when he's clearly a sniper. Thane is touted as being a sniper, but everyone knows that, during the Kai Lame fight, he comes off as though he's a complete idiot who impales himself on Leng's sword. His Hanar handlers were probably doing "jelly rolls" in their graves watching that one.
Actually, the only pair of Femshep's possible squaddie lovers that comes across as being halfway capable in cutscenes are Liara and lowly Jacob... who pulls a gymnastic move to get onto the shuttle during the Ex-Cerberus scientists mission that would turn any phantom in the game green with envy... and he even pulls it off while keeping his AR firing at the enemy. That alone should move him up the list.
OK Mr alt account 🤣 FYI, I have no alt accounts. I've deleted old accounts several times here, but I've never had more than one account at a time. What's your problem with me, eh. You said people could make arguments for whoever they wanted, but somehow you don't want to extend that same courtesy to my arguments about Garrus being a sniper... something that is completely evident in the game. He's pretty much the only squadmate, in cutscenes, that uses his sniper rifle. Zaeed calls him a "helluva sniper"... the example of it are endless. There is only the one reference to Garrus engaging in melee sparring... which had to have occurred when he was a relatively young man in the Turian military... since he was a relatively young man when we met him in ME1 and he was already working for C-Sec... i.e. he was no longer in the Turian military.
James is set up as a melee character in the writing... he engages in body building and you spar with him on the ship. Even Jacob is noted as being able to do 1,000+ sit ups.
I'm not being rude to you or anyone else here... I'm simply introducing facts from the game to support my arguments for my list of strong vs. weak (depending on this ever varying definition of strong and weak being used here).
Physical strength goes to the krogan, then to James. Agility strength goes to Jacob and Jack (who is seen doing immense back flips in a video on the Shadow Broker terminal) Engineering/tech strength goes to Tali and Kasumi
Aiming Strength goes to Garrus Survivability/toughness goes to Zaeed. Biotic strength goes to Liara, since Samara can't pull of a singularity or stasis. Thane really doesn't have a whole lot going for him... he's an expert sniper who is never seen in cutscenes using a sniper rifle. He's tries the phantom-like ballet, but fails miserably at it and impales himself on Kai Leng's sword.
Samara is the weakest in character because she's the only squad mate to have threatened to commit suicide and she relies entirely on the "Code" to make her decisions for her.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 13:21:40 GMT
Actually, the only pair of Femshep's possible squaddie lovers that comes across as being halfway capable in cutscenes are Liara Really? Which cutscenes are you referring to? It does move him to the top of the list. What were the ME3 squadmates doing while Taylor was providing cover fire for Shepard and Brynne? Reporter: Tell me squadmates, why couldn't you provide cover fire for the Commander? Vakarian: I was doing calibrations Vega: I was getting another tattoo t'soni: I was taking armor from one of the dead bodies to put on display as a prize Tali and Williams: We were drinking Alenko: I went to the local drugstore to get some aspirin for my headache. edibot: I was thinking of a new joke Javik: I don't care about you primitives Liara is shown getting herself out of trouble on Mars using both her biotics and her pistol. She also sidelines Tella Vasir by flying a table at her and she brings down the electric shower on the Shadlow Broker. She is a cowering fool in ME1, though.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 14:42:47 GMT
Arguing that Liara is the stronger biotic than Samara, according to lore reasons, is absolutely absurd and 100% headcanon territory.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 14:55:09 GMT
Arguing that Liara is the stronger biotic than Samara, according to lore reasons, is absolutely absurd and 100% headcanon territory. My right though. Liara is the only squad mate throughout all the games (other than Shepard) who can generate a singularity. She is also the only one after ME1 who can generate a stasis (other than Adept Shepard, as of MELE). However, other squad mates can generate throw, pull and even reave (i.e. Kaidan in ME3). Morinth is the only squad mate who can dominate, so even she has a biotic trick up her sleave that Munchausen Mom can't pull off. Morinth's barrier is also equal to Samara's, as is Jack's. You're welcome to dislike Liara, but Bioware is definitely into giving her unique biotic talents in their lore. She also, apparently, outlives all of them.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 14, 2021 16:01:32 GMT
Arguing that Liara is the stronger biotic than Samara, according to lore reasons, is absolutely absurd and 100% headcanon territory. Yup, Liara has neither the biotic power advantage or more experience fighting. Samara would beat her fairly easily
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Post by themikefest on Aug 14, 2021 16:13:21 GMT
Liara is shown getting herself out of trouble on Mars using both her biotics and her pistol. What it shows is her lack of experience. The Cerberus guys were in a tight spot. When exiting the vent, just shoot them. Using her singularity used some of her energy that wasn't necessary. Had there been other Cerberus soldiers in that area, she would not have had the energy to do anything. Her pistol might help a bit, but she would've been taken down. Because both are distracted by Shepard giving the asari the few moments needed to use those powers. Interesting you mention those two cutscenes from the dlc. No other squadmate has that luxury. If we're going by cutscenes, I say Thane has the best one. He showed stealth, speed and strength within a couple of seconds. The trilogy shows t'soni is not squadmate material, but it's really noticeable in ME3. She can't be callous on Thessia, then freezes long enough to accept a plane ticket to fly on Kai Leng Airlines.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 18:51:28 GMT
Arguing that Liara is the stronger biotic than Samara, according to lore reasons, is absolutely absurd and 100% headcanon territory. Yup, Liara has neither the biotic power advantage or more experience fighting. Samara would beat her fairly easily So being the only one who can cast singularity isn't a "biotic power advantage" - hah. Singularity is the single most valuable biotic power in the Trilogy... followed closely by Stasis, which is also a Liara-exclusive biotic power in ME2 and ME3. She also can warp, which is another thing Samara can't do.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 18:57:35 GMT
Liara is shown getting herself out of trouble on Mars using both her biotics and her pistol. What it shows is her lack of experience. The Cerberus guys were in a tight spot. When exiting the vent, just shoot them. Using her singularity used some of her energy that wasn't necessary. Had there been other Cerberus soldiers in that area, she would not have had the energy to do anything. Her pistol might help a bit, but she would've been taken down. Because both are distracted by Shepard giving the asari the few moments needed to use those powers. Interesting you mention those two cutscenes from the dlc. No other squadmate has that luxury. If we're going by cutscenes, I say Thane has the best one. He showed stealth, speed and strength within a couple of seconds. The trilogy shows t'soni is not squadmate material, but it's really noticeable in ME3. She can't be callous on Thessia, then freezes long enough to accept a plane ticket to fly on Kai Leng Airlines. Both? Tela Vasir is alone. Shepard clues Liara into the plan by telling her they'll deal with it "the usual way."
Energy that wasn't necessary? He keeps the second one from firing on her as she shoots the first one. Crowd control. Her singularity also recovers fast enough that she can cast it almost non-stop, so I don't think she ever really runs out of energy.
The fight on Thessia... as you've said many times... is poorly done... and doesn't make anyone look good... including Shepard and Javik and whatever other squad mate you want to bring along. Why didn't Javik just use the moment Leng is picking up Liara to cast a quick slam to put Leng on the ground? Liara is the one who gets to Shepard in time to save him/her from a nasty fall... whereas Jacob is second to getting to Shepard... beaten to the scene by Brynn.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 14, 2021 19:31:45 GMT
Both? Tela Vasir is alone. Shepard clues Liara into the plan by telling her they'll deal with it "the usual way. No kidding Vasir is alone. I said both referring to her and the broker because you mentioned two separate cutscenes. He? Who is the he you're talking about? Why didn't Leng kill the asari? He is referred to as an assassin.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 14, 2021 20:08:28 GMT
Both? Tela Vasir is alone. Shepard clues Liara into the plan by telling her they'll deal with it "the usual way. No kidding Vasir is alone. I said both referring to her and the broker because you mentioned two separate cutscenes. He? Who is the he you're talking about? Why didn't Leng kill the asari? He is referred to as an assassin. Do yourself a favour and don't bother arguing, they seem to think Vega doing lots of pushup makes him good in combat
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 22:18:22 GMT
Both? Tela Vasir is alone. Shepard clues Liara into the plan by telling her they'll deal with it "the usual way. No kidding Vasir is alone. I said both referring to her and the broker because you mentioned two separate cutscenes. He? Who is the he you're talking about? Why didn't Leng kill the asari? He is referred to as an assassin. 1) Last time I checked then... a planned distraction (as occurs in both cutscenes) is a valid combat strategy and doesn't imply incompetence.
2) Typo ... s/b She.
3) You'll have to ask Leng... as I said and you have said many times, that whole cutscene is a mess. Everyone, including Leng, come off looking rather ridiculous. Still, the fact holds... it's Liara who winds up saving Shepard from falling back into the inordinately deep hole created under the temple after the gunship takes out the supports. The temple must have had one heck of a big basement, eh?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 22:22:37 GMT
No kidding Vasir is alone. I said both referring to her and the broker because you mentioned two separate cutscenes. He? Who is the he you're talking about? Why didn't Leng kill the asari? He is referred to as an assassin. Do yourself a favour and don't bother arguing, they seem to think Vega doing lots of pushup makes him good in combat I said he was physically strong. Gameplay-wise, he is very useful in combat (depending on Shepard's class.. which is a factor that applies to all of them). Equipped with the Typhoon and the Claymore, he does a fair bit of damage and doesn't go down easily. He's great at taking on the brutes during the final mission. In combat, I spend a lot more time reviving Garrus.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 22:37:39 GMT
Yup, Liara has neither the biotic power advantage or more experience fighting. Samara would beat her fairly easily So being the only one who can cast singularity isn't a "biotic power advantage" - hah. Singularity is the single most valuable biotic power in the Trilogy... followed closely by Stasis, which is also a Liara-exclusive biotic power in ME2 and ME3. She also can warp, which is another thing Samara can't do. Stop. Everything you wrote is headcanon. You can have this opinion, but you can absolutely not claim "fact". Liara can't Reave or Pull, she can't Flashbang Grenade either. Unique powers mean nothing, and Singularity is hardly the single most valuable power in Mass Effect, that is ludicrous. You can have all the opinions you want @upyetagain, but we know your modus operandi - you come here to argue, and at a certain point get yourself tied in knots because you choose a strange hill to die on. So then you justify your BS opinion-as-fact internal narrative, blame us for being jerks, and quit the forum. Most people just call that trolling. You are absolutely trolling this thread making your headcanon out to be lore.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 14, 2021 22:50:47 GMT
1) Last time I checked then... a planned distraction (as occurs in both cutscenes) is a valid combat strategy and doesn't imply incompetence. Last time I checked, I didn't say she was incompetent during those cutscenes. Has anyone, since the game was released, said different? No. So why mention that?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 23:19:12 GMT
So being the only one who can cast singularity isn't a "biotic power advantage" - hah. Singularity is the single most valuable biotic power in the Trilogy... followed closely by Stasis, which is also a Liara-exclusive biotic power in ME2 and ME3. She also can warp, which is another thing Samara can't do. Stop. Everything you wrote is headcanon. You can have this opinion, but you can absolutely not claim "fact". Liara can't Reave or Pull, she can't Flashbang Grenade either. Unique powers mean nothing, and Singularity is hardly the single most valuable power in Mass Effect, that is ludicrous. You can have all the opinions you want @upyetagain , but we know your modus operandi - you come here to argue, and at a certain point get yourself tied in knots because you choose a strange hill to die on. So then you justify your BS opinion-as-fact internal narrative, blame us for being jerks, and quit the forum. Most people just call that trolling. You are absolutely trolling this thread making your headcanon out to be lore. Is it or is it not a fact that the ONLY squadmate ever given the Singularity power in MET is Liara? Is it or is it not fact, that after ME1, Liara is also the only squad mate to be given the Stasis power? Is it or is it not a fact that, in MELE, stasis has been removed as a bonus power for Shepard? Those are not headcanon, they are game facts... and I can absolutely cite them as being "fact." My interpretation of those facts is that Bioware favors Liara and in their writing of their lore... that makes her the strongest biotic in the lore. That is my opinon/interpretation... but not headcanon.
If you can find me a fact in the lore that says Samara is stronger than her daughter (who has all the same biotic powers, save Reave being replaced by Dominate) or that her Reave is stronger than Kaidan's, then we're talking turkey. Unless you can do that... your opinion about Samara as the strongest biotic squad mate what is headcanon.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 23:33:18 GMT
1) Last time I checked then... a planned distraction (as occurs in both cutscenes) is a valid combat strategy and doesn't imply incompetence. Last time I checked, I didn't say she was incompetent during those cutscenes. Has anyone, since the game was released, said different? No. So why mention that? 1) You opened your previous post with a statement saying it showed her incompetence.
2) Why not mention it... it supports my opinion about the list. Jacob and Liara are two squadmates who wind up saving Shepard in a cutscene. A third is Tali, who pulls Shepard from the falling elevator. She can also be the one who stabs Legion/Geth VI in the back. Garrus, in some cases, can wind up shooting the Virmire survivor. James can be the one who takes out the Cerberus shuttle during the Citadel DLC, but that honor also goes to Wrex (with more class). EDI stops Cerberus from venting the hanger (but that one probably doesn't count). Thane, on the other hand, impales himself on Kai Leng's sword and Samara tries to kill herself. Jack is too busy swooning over her kids. Miranda takes out her father. Kasumi saves the Hanar and Zaeed saves a volus, while Mordin is working on the genophage cure. Have I missed anyone?
ETA: Yes... Grunt... who should probably be at the top of the list since he can, all on his own, save Shepard and the Rachni queen from a hoard of Ravagers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 23:57:33 GMT
Is it or is it not a fact that the ONLY squadmate ever given the Singularity power in MET is Liara? Is it or is it not fact, that after ME1, Liara is also the only squad mate to be given the Stasis power? Is it or is it not a fact that, in MELE, stasis has been removed as a bonus power for Shepard? Fact, Fact, Irrelevant. The status of Stasis in the LE has no bearing whatsoever on the Mass Effect universe. The LE does not invalidate the OT, and the OT has ME3MP where humans have Singularity like Krogans like headbutts. And entirely irrelevant! Every new squaddie has unique powers in ME2. In ME1, my Liara skips Stasis because the power sucks in ME1 imo. This is what I'm talking about. Straight from fact to fiction without a blink of an eye. Lore: Asari get more powerful with age. Fact: Liara is a child, Samara is a Matriarch. Lore: Asari Justicars are warrior monks. Scientists read texts, analyze data. Combat is a secondary skill. Fact: Reave was a unique power to Samara in ME2. Biotic Bubble is a unique power to the Asari Justicar in ME3MP. Fact: Samara is a Matriarch Justicar, with unique powers, at the peak of them. Fact: Liara is a young scientist. Please.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 15, 2021 0:16:02 GMT
1) You opened your previous post with a statement saying it showed her incompetence. Did I say showed her incompetence? If I said that in my previous post, then it wouldn't be hard for you to quote that post proving I said that, right?
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midnightwolf
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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midnightwolf
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midnightwolf
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by midnightwolf on Aug 15, 2021 0:43:55 GMT
No kidding Vasir is alone. I said both referring to her and the broker because you mentioned two separate cutscenes. He? Who is the he you're talking about? Why didn't Leng kill the asari? He is referred to as an assassin. Do yourself a favour and don't bother arguing, they seem to think Vega doing lots of pushup makes him good in combat James IS useful in combat. And those would be 'pull ups' not 'push ups'. :/
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2021 2:54:54 GMT
Is it or is it not a fact that the ONLY squadmate ever given the Singularity power in MET is Liara? Is it or is it not fact, that after ME1, Liara is also the only squad mate to be given the Stasis power? Is it or is it not a fact that, in MELE, stasis has been removed as a bonus power for Shepard? Fact, Fact, Irrelevant. The status of Stasis in the LE has no bearing whatsoever on the Mass Effect universe. The LE does not invalidate the OT, and the OT has ME3MP where humans have Singularity like Krogans like headbutts. And entirely irrelevant! Every new squaddie has unique powers in ME2. In ME1, my Liara skips Stasis because the power sucks in ME1 imo. This is what I'm talking about. Straight from fact to fiction without a blink of an eye. Lore: Asari get more powerful with age. Fact: Liara is a child, Samara is a Matriarch. Lore: Asari Justicars are warrior monks. Scientists read texts, analyze data. Combat is a secondary skill. Fact: Reave was a unique power to Samara in ME2. Biotic Bubble is a unique power to the Asari Justicar in ME3MP. Fact: Samara is a Matriarch Justicar, with unique powers, at the peak of them. Fact: Liara is a young scientist. Please. Liara is a lot younger than Samara, but so is Morinth... who states outright that she is as strong as her mother.
Multiplayer has nothing to do with the lore of the trilogy itself. In multiplayer, the volus are quite powerful. That doesn't mean that Niftu Cal is a "biotic god."
Agree - Asari get more powerful with age... and Liara is going to be in ME5... How powerful do you think she's going to be at that advanced age?
In ME3, Samara can appear in the Armax Arsenal Arena... which reave is more powerful - Kaidan's or Samara's (or are they both the same)?
Samara was such a great justicar that she took, what was it, a hundred or so years (correction "more than 400 years" according to her conversation with Shepard) to finally catch up with her daughter.. and catching her, the only Ardat--Yakshi on the run in existence, was her sworn cause for joining the justicars in the first place... and then she needed Shepard to interfere to polish her off. Why did she ask for Shepard's help in the first place... why not just ask to be released from her oath?... Because, the answer is, after more than 400 years of trying, she realizes she's simply not capable enough to get the job done without Shepard's help.
Whether or not a fact is relevant or irrelevant is an opinion... not a fact in its own right. My opinion/interpretation is that the facts I cited are relevant. Yours is that they are not. Agree to disagree on that. I'm posting my opinion as to who is the strongest and using available facts from the game to support my opinion. That's not trolling. You are entitled to your opinion. Pull whatever facts from the game you want to support it and I'll do the same... and I can also say whether or not I consider your "facts" from the game are relevant... which is what I've done above.
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