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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 18, 2021 13:18:52 GMT
Javik...The African prothean is the only 1 who constantly gives advice to Shepard. He is basically a more powerful and experienced renegade shep Javik (as well as Sam btw) is the only one who stays focused on the mission after Thessia. Others are only concerned about t'soni crying like a child in her room. "Lost one planet? It is nothing in comparison with the whole galaxy". His great advantage: he's been in such situation, he knows only war, he was born during war. Saw firsthand weakness of his own empire and strength of the reapers. Only this part makes him "strong", strong as an adviser. That's why Javik, unlike others, is able to see things differently. Though see nothing "renegade" here. He makes a few comments that I would consider renegade behaviour for example he talks about that Turian lieutenant on Tuchanka and states how he would punish him for his incompetence and if he were to survive Javik then states he would reward him by shooting him in the head. He also has a conversation with Garrus and criticises the Turians refusal to use the bomb on Tuchanka as leverage against the Krogan. Finally in a conversation with Shepard Javik mentions how he would have sabotaged the genophage cure and would have lied to get both Krogan and Salarian support (thats something renegade shep can actually do) and if Javik finds out he approves of this path. He would unite the galaxy to fight the reapers by force rather than through friendship and diplomatic means. I would say these constitute as renegade behaviour Mordin smart enough not to accept the challenge
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Post by ahglock on Aug 19, 2021 2:25:22 GMT
So he is super rengade, but what makes him super powerful so that he tops the list? He is an exemplar of his people, I'm not sure how that differs from something like specter which someone who people keep putting on the bottom of the list made. Biotics+Soldier is a good combo, but I got nothing from the game implying he was the greatest fighter or biotic ever.
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Post by lordmoral on Aug 22, 2021 18:50:07 GMT
As title, list who do you think are the strongest and weakest squadmates lore wise and why (top 3 of each would suffice). Imo Strongest: 1. Javik, avatar of vengeance, leader of a million warriors, out of all the protheans put into stasis in that bunker he was seen as the most important. Elite soldier and a very powerful biotic. Basically 50,000 year old upgraded shepard (combat wise). 2. Wrex, killed a threasher maw on foot and alone, almost 1000 years old krogan battlemaster, feared by other krogan for his combat abilities. Became a leader of a tribe in his youth by killing his father (who was the current head) in a botched assassination attempt. When you meet him he is much older, wiser and more experienced. 3. Samara, almost 1000 years old with much of that time spent in combat situations, usually hunting powerful biotics on her own. Asari are among the most powerful biotics and she is considerd elite. Weakest: (1 is a tie for me between Ashley and James) 1.James Vega, big dumb basic soldier who almost got wrekd by an average blood pack krogan and had to be saved. Nothing particularly stands out for him, he's muscular but has average human strength, no biotic abilities and no other stand out skills. 1.Ashley Williams, basically a female version of James, relatively experienced soldier but certainly not a seasoned veteran, no biotics and not elite combat abilities. 2. Kasumi goto, stronger than Ashley/James because she is more cunning and would set traps/ambushes, also quite agile as we saw against Hawk but still she is a master thief not a combat specialist. 3. Tali, intelligent, resourceful and has some combat experience, particularly against geth. Had she remained the same as she did when you first meet her then she would be the weakest but I think her character (along with possibly Garrus) have developed the most accross the 3 games, by the second game she is leading small Quarian squads, is far more confident and clearly has become more proficient in combat. Considering that in ME3 Disruptor Ammon affects Biotic Barriers and that Williams has: Inferno Grenades, Concussion Blast (which can get the properties of the ammo it is using at rank 6) coupled with Marksman (when the trigger works) she can help mow down Reaper, Geth and Cerberus Forces now; pair her with Liara (Wrap plus Concussion Blast explosion and Stasi which helps with crowd control), Wrex, Tali and more you have a good all around card.
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ALTBOULI
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 22, 2021 19:38:43 GMT
As title, list who do you think are the strongest and weakest squadmates lore wise and why (top 3 of each would suffice). Imo Strongest: 1. Javik, avatar of vengeance, leader of a million warriors, out of all the protheans put into stasis in that bunker he was seen as the most important. Elite soldier and a very powerful biotic. Basically 50,000 year old upgraded shepard (combat wise). 2. Wrex, killed a threasher maw on foot and alone, almost 1000 years old krogan battlemaster, feared by other krogan for his combat abilities. Became a leader of a tribe in his youth by killing his father (who was the current head) in a botched assassination attempt. When you meet him he is much older, wiser and more experienced. 3. Samara, almost 1000 years old with much of that time spent in combat situations, usually hunting powerful biotics on her own. Asari are among the most powerful biotics and she is considerd elite. Weakest: (1 is a tie for me between Ashley and James) 1.James Vega, big dumb basic soldier who almost got wrekd by an average blood pack krogan and had to be saved. Nothing particularly stands out for him, he's muscular but has average human strength, no biotic abilities and no other stand out skills. 1.Ashley Williams, basically a female version of James, relatively experienced soldier but certainly not a seasoned veteran, no biotics and not elite combat abilities. 2. Kasumi goto, stronger than Ashley/James because she is more cunning and would set traps/ambushes, also quite agile as we saw against Hawk but still she is a master thief not a combat specialist. 3. Tali, intelligent, resourceful and has some combat experience, particularly against geth. Had she remained the same as she did when you first meet her then she would be the weakest but I think her character (along with possibly Garrus) have developed the most accross the 3 games, by the second game she is leading small Quarian squads, is far more confident and clearly has become more proficient in combat. Considering that in ME3 Disruptor Ammon affects Biotic Barriers and that Williams has: Inferno Grenades, Concussion Blast (which can get the properties of the ammo it is using at rank 6) coupled with Marksman (when the trigger works) she can help mow down Reaper, Geth and Cerberus Forces now; pair her with Liara (Wrap plus Concussion Blast explosion and Stasi which helps with crowd control), Wrex, Tali and more you have a good all around card. Read the title, not looking for how strong characters are in-game. If it was in-game Liara would be the strongest character in ME1....
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Post by lordmoral on Aug 22, 2021 19:54:28 GMT
Considering that in ME3 Disruptor Ammon affects Biotic Barriers and that Williams has: Inferno Grenades, Concussion Blast (which can get the properties of the ammo it is using at rank 6) coupled with Marksman (when the trigger works) she can help mow down Reaper, Geth and Cerberus Forces now; pair her with Liara (Wrap plus Concussion Blast explosion and Stasi which helps with crowd control), Wrex, Tali and more you have a good all around card. Read the title, not looking for how strong characters are in-game. If it was in-game Liara would be the strongest character in ME1.... Well strong how? Because if so this would be my list: Strong as in taking the most damage and giving it back: 1) Wrex; 2) Javiik; 3) Jack; 4) Zaeed; 5) Aria; Weak: 1) Thane in ME3 because of his condition yet he still manages to b-- slap Kai Leng; 2) Mordin; 3) Kasumi; 4) Tali/Legion; 5) Ashley Williams/Garrus/Jacob Everyone else is in the middle of those two lists and the number one represent the strongest and weakest respectively.
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ALTBOULI
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 22, 2021 19:55:50 GMT
So he is super rengade, but what makes him super powerful so that he tops the list? He is an exemplar of his people, I'm not sure how that differs from something like specter which someone who people keep putting on the bottom of the list made. Biotics+Soldier is a good combo, but I got nothing from the game implying he was the greatest fighter or biotic ever. What did Ashley do to become a SPECTER? She got owned by the EDI bot and if not for Shepard Would have died there and the. Remember indoctrinated Udina offered her a role as a SPECTER (it wasn't based on merit). Javik's race are naturally a hunter race (he mentions that himself). His race can learn complex concepts from simply touching memory shards, that includes battle experience (again this is mentioned by Javik). His race were the most powerful and advanced in his cycle and he was considered the best fighter in the Prothean army at that time. A SPECTER has freedom to move around and bypass normal security but generally they work alone, that's not comparable to Javik who led an army (1 million strong)and was the military leader at that time (its more comparable to Wrex and the Krogan, if the Krogan had enslaved all other races).
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Post by lordmoral on Aug 22, 2021 21:27:49 GMT
So he is super rengade, but what makes him super powerful so that he tops the list? He is an exemplar of his people, I'm not sure how that differs from something like specter which someone who people keep putting on the bottom of the list made. Biotics+Soldier is a good combo, but I got nothing from the game implying he was the greatest fighter or biotic ever. What did Ashley do to become a SPECTER? She got owned by the EDI bot and if not for Shepard Would have died there and the. Remember indoctrinated Udina offered her a role as a SPECTER (it wasn't based on merit). Javik's race are naturally a hunter race (he mentions that himself). His race can learn complex concepts from simply touching memory shards, that includes battle experience (again this is mentioned by Javik). His race were the most powerful and advanced in his cycle and he was considered the best fighter in the Prothean army at that time. A SPECTER has freedom to move around and bypass normal security but generally they work alone, that's not comparable to Javik who led an army (1 million strong)and was the military leader at that time (its more comparable to Wrex and the Krogan, if the Krogan had enslaved all other races). I suspect that between ME1 and ME2 Williams was assigned to high risk missions as well between ME2 to ME3, Bioware really bullsushed Williams in ME3 development. I strongly suspect that the Alliance wanted to give her the credit for driving off the Collectors on Horizon as they needed the PR win but the fact that they still blamed Pirates and slavers (listen to the news in Omega from both the Batarian and Human reporters in ME2) soured that aspect and lead people willing to belive that what Cerberus was doing in Horizon was justified (another aspect that wasnt explored in ME3). It still surprises me that Jack greats us in Grissom Accademy as if we delivered the Collectora Base to TIM, perhaps that's a shared issued with the Virmire Survivor in a lose scene trigger that assumes we sided with Cerberus.
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Post by ahglock on Aug 22, 2021 22:19:17 GMT
So he is super rengade, but what makes him super powerful so that he tops the list? He is an exemplar of his people, I'm not sure how that differs from something like specter which someone who people keep putting on the bottom of the list made. Biotics+Soldier is a good combo, but I got nothing from the game implying he was the greatest fighter or biotic ever. What did Ashley do to become a SPECTER? She got owned by the EDI bot and if not for Shepard Would have died there and the. Remember indoctrinated Udina offered her a role as a SPECTER (it wasn't based on merit). Javik's race are naturally a hunter race (he mentions that himself). His race can learn complex concepts from simply touching memory shards, that includes battle experience (again this is mentioned by Javik). His race were the most powerful and advanced in his cycle and he was considered the best fighter in the Prothean army at that time. A SPECTER has freedom to move around and bypass normal security but generally they work alone, that's not comparable to Javik who led an army (1 million strong)and was the military leader at that time (its more comparable to Wrex and the Krogan, if the Krogan had enslaved all other races). I don't remember anything that said he was the greatest warrior of his time period, and so what if he led an army, how does that effect his strength as a squad mate. A specter as you said works alone, they have to handle shit on their own, a renegade military leader can sacrifice his men to handle problems. I do not remember any part of the story that said he was somehow a better soldier or biotic than other members of the squad, or the best of his people in those regards.
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Post by ahglock on Aug 22, 2021 22:20:56 GMT
What did Ashley do to become a SPECTER? She got owned by the EDI bot and if not for Shepard Would have died there and the. Remember indoctrinated Udina offered her a role as a SPECTER (it wasn't based on merit). Javik's race are naturally a hunter race (he mentions that himself). His race can learn complex concepts from simply touching memory shards, that includes battle experience (again this is mentioned by Javik). His race were the most powerful and advanced in his cycle and he was considered the best fighter in the Prothean army at that time. A SPECTER has freedom to move around and bypass normal security but generally they work alone, that's not comparable to Javik who led an army (1 million strong)and was the military leader at that time (its more comparable to Wrex and the Krogan, if the Krogan had enslaved all other races). It still surprises me that Jack greats us in Grissom Accademy as if we delivered the Collectora Base to TIM, perhaps that's a shared issued with the Virmire Survivor in a lose scene trigger that assumes we sided with Cerberus. Laziness, they had one greeting written and went with that. You could have been vocally anti Cerberus all of ME2 given her access to al she wanted to hurt Cerberus, wrecked the collector base and there is no change.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 22, 2021 23:05:14 GMT
What did Ashley do to become a SPECTER? She got owned by the EDI bot and if not for Shepard Would have died there and the. Remember indoctrinated Udina offered her a role as a SPECTER (it wasn't based on merit). Javik's race are naturally a hunter race (he mentions that himself). His race can learn complex concepts from simply touching memory shards, that includes battle experience (again this is mentioned by Javik). His race were the most powerful and advanced in his cycle and he was considered the best fighter in the Prothean army at that time. A SPECTER has freedom to move around and bypass normal security but generally they work alone, that's not comparable to Javik who led an army (1 million strong)and was the military leader at that time (its more comparable to Wrex and the Krogan, if the Krogan had enslaved all other races). I don't remember anything that said he was the greatest warrior of his time period, and so what if he led an army, how does that effect his strength as a squad mate. A specter as you said works alone, they have to handle shit on their own, a renegade military leader can sacrifice his men to handle problems. I do not remember any part of the story that said he was somehow a better soldier or biotic than other members of the squad, or the best of his people in those regards. A race that puts its people into special classes i.e scientists, Warriors and believes the strongest should lead. Do you really think Javik was randomly selected out of those 1 million army? How about the stasis pods? Why was only his pod prioritised? His flashback showed a small glimpse of his ability as a warrior, taking out multiple collectors with a single biotic attack. He even sent Shepard, James and Liara flying, having just come out of his stasis pod and barely being able to walk. You seem to be trying to argue a case that Ashley because she is a SPECTER is somehow a better warrior than Javik, can you elaborate?
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Post by ahglock on Aug 23, 2021 3:24:49 GMT
I don't remember anything that said he was the greatest warrior of his time period, and so what if he led an army, how does that effect his strength as a squad mate. A specter as you said works alone, they have to handle shit on their own, a renegade military leader can sacrifice his men to handle problems. I do not remember any part of the story that said he was somehow a better soldier or biotic than other members of the squad, or the best of his people in those regards. A race that puts its people into special classes i.e scientists, Warriors and believes the strongest should lead. Do you really think Javik was randomly selected out of those 1 million army? How about the stasis pods? Why was only his pod prioritised? His flashback showed a small glimpse of his ability as a warrior, taking out multiple collectors with a single biotic attack. He even sent Shepard, James and Liara flying, having just come out of his stasis pod and barely being able to walk. You seem to be trying to argue a case that Ashley because she is a SPECTER is somehow a better warrior than Javik, can you elaborate? As a straight up warrior, yeah I'd say Ashley is a better fighter by the lore. She got to being a specter by despite having negative political connections through straight up combat skills, that's all shes got, she isn't smart, or a great tactician, she isn't cunning, she just fights. He probably is stronger overall with his biotics but I'm not sure I'd rank him above Kaiden overall. His pod was prioritized as he was the exemplar of vengeance, the guy they wanted to get revenge later on. That doesn't mean he was their best warrior, it could mean lots of things, like most driven, most ruthless etc.
Everyone from Me2 on has cut scenes when they show up that make them somewhat baller, except well James. Though I thought James at least had a fun one. Point is we never get told much of if at all about his capabilities, how his biotics would stack up compared to Kaiden, Miranda, Samanra, Jack etc. Killing multiple collectors with a gun, I wouldn't be surprised to see Tali pull that off in a cut scene, its not that impressive as cut scenes go.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 23, 2021 4:52:24 GMT
A race that puts its people into special classes i.e scientists, Warriors and believes the strongest should lead. Do you really think Javik was randomly selected out of those 1 million army? How about the stasis pods? Why was only his pod prioritised? His flashback showed a small glimpse of his ability as a warrior, taking out multiple collectors with a single biotic attack. He even sent Shepard, James and Liara flying, having just come out of his stasis pod and barely being able to walk. You seem to be trying to argue a case that Ashley because she is a SPECTER is somehow a better warrior than Javik, can you elaborate? As a straight up warrior, yeah I'd say Ashley is a better fighter by the lore. She got to being a specter by despite having negative political connections through straight up combat skills, that's all shes got, she isn't smart, or a great tactician, she isn't cunning, she just fights. He probably is stronger overall with his biotics but I'm not sure I'd rank him above Kaiden overall. His pod was prioritized as he was the exemplar of vengeance, the guy they wanted to get revenge later on. That doesn't mean he was their best warrior, it could mean lots of things, like most driven, most ruthless etc.
Everyone from Me2 on has cut scenes when they show up that make them somewhat baller, except well James. Though I thought James at least had a fun one. Point is we never get told much of if at all about his capabilities, how his biotics would stack up compared to Kaiden, Miranda, Samanra, Jack etc. Killing multiple collectors with a gun, I wouldn't be surprised to see Tali pull that off in a cut scene, its not that impressive as cut scenes go. No you haven't given evidence as to why Ashley is a better fighter/warrior based on lore. You literally said Javik isn't the protheans best warrior despite him going up in the ranks of military (a race that is warrior driven and has created an empire by conquest) but Ashley is a great warrior (or at least better than Javik) for going up in the ranks of the military... Like I said to someone else already on this thread, Ashley needed saving in ME1, Ashley needed saving in ME2 and Ashley needed saving in ME3. She was given SPECTER status by Udina who was looking for someone he could manipulate (probably already indoctrinated at that point). Being smart/a good tactician were some of the things I based my rating off of (see what I said about Wrex), if she can be so easily manipulated by Udina (which can potentially result in her dying then she really isn't a strong squadmate). The point here though is she didn't become a SPECTER based on merit which you seem to be suggesting. Now back to Javik...his race can learn things from merely touching such as language, what transpired at a location, peoples thoughts and feelings and most crucially - Experience (combat or otherwise). So why was he chosen to lead his people post reapers if he was nothing special? The whole idea as he alluded to was to go into stasis and come out once the reapers leave, he was then going to use his small army to reach out to the humans, Asari, Turians etc to create a new Prothean empire (he eluded to the fact that they would either join willingly or by force). That shows he clearly had leadership skills so much so that they intended for him to lead his people. Additionally when asked about the Crucible he says something along the lines of 'I know only 1 thing, fighting'. Now this throw away line wouldn't mean much if you also didn't learn that the Prothean's were experimenting/enhancing the abilities of other races. Like the Asari hence why they are so strong biotically was in no small part thanks to the Protheans. Its not unrealistic to think that Javik (who was born during the reaper invasion was modified to be a super soldier for the Prothean's. There seems to be hints to that from Javik himself and the Avatar thing he refers to is likely tied to that. Is he as strong Biotically as Samara or Jack? No probably not but he is physically stronger and more cunning and more proficient with weapons (the same way Shepard is). Javik himself basically says he was the Shepard of his cycle and seems himself in Shepard. He is also the most ruthless squadmate by far and is rarely if ever shocked by the atrocities going on because he lived through the reaper invasion long enough and saw through it. His flashback shows him easily throwing multiple collectors around with a single biotic attack not just using his gun.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2021 6:45:15 GMT
Javik is cruel enough, that before he punched the life out of Ashley, he would have told her her worst memory of her father. Just so she could die in complete anguish.
The Avatar of Vengeance, for a species obviously greater than any in our cycle, just on sensory perception alone.
It is silly to argue otherwise, the lore makes it quite distinct that Protheans can do some weird shit that is far beyond what any of our squad's races can do.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 23, 2021 9:58:15 GMT
Javik is cruel enough, that before he punched the life out of Ashley, he would have told her her worst memory of her father. Just so she could die in conplete anguish. The Avatar of Vengeance, for a species obviously greater than any in our cycle, just on sensory percentage alone. It is silly to argue otherwise, the lore makes it quite distinct that Protheans can do some weird shit that is far beyond what any of our squad's races can do. Did Ashley get a movie role with Blasto the hanar SPECTER? Javik did
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Post by Spectr61 on Aug 26, 2021 18:41:04 GMT
Agree with the OP's list, however,
Thane for the win!
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At this rate all future Bioware games will be half done and modders need to rescue it for free.
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Post by lordmoral on Aug 27, 2021 0:13:39 GMT
Agree with the OP's list, however, Thane for the win! Honestly the way he b--- slapped that dude even while terminally ill and he was using Reaper tech tells who the MVP is.
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Spectr61
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: Spectr61
Posts: 792 Likes: 1,234
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41
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Apr 17, 2024 19:21:46 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Spectr61 on Aug 27, 2021 15:46:16 GMT
Agree with the OP's list, however, Thane for the win! Honestly the way he b--- slapped that dude even while terminally ill and he was using Reaper tech tells who the MVP is. Amen to that, brother. Plus, Lore-wise, who else is as philosophical? A primer on Solipsism for that heathen Shepard. Indeed!
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ALTBOULI
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 30, 2021 22:34:47 GMT
Honestly the way he b--- slapped that dude even while terminally ill and he was using Reaper tech tells who the MVP is. Amen to that, brother. Plus, Lore-wise, who else is as philosophical? A primer on Solipsism for that heathen Shepard. Indeed! Actually just got to this bit, forgot how sad it was the way he died, even did a little prayer for Shepard before he died. Incidentally im doing a paragon playthrough and I almost blasted Ashley, forgot how dumb she was in that scene. Still killed Udina though
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At this rate all future Bioware games will be half done and modders need to rescue it for free.
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lordmoral
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by lordmoral on Aug 31, 2021 0:21:28 GMT
Amen to that, brother. Plus, Lore-wise, who else is as philosophical? A primer on Solipsism for that heathen Shepard. Indeed! Actually just got to this bit, forgot how sad it was the way he died, even did a little prayer for Shepard before he died. Incidentally im doing a paragon playthrough and I almost blasted Ashley, forgot how dumb she was in that scene. Still killed Udina though Williams enjoyed shooting that SOB (Bioware shouldn't have bullrushed the Virmire Survivor character development and leave them as a cameo in ME2), I just can't let her kill him, I want to do it BTW, check out her convo with Tali after Turian Bomb:
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