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Post by mattfon on Aug 21, 2021 20:27:40 GMT
You did it before, long ago in Jade Empire it would be nice to see it again. Those types of relationships are hardly ever shown in the main stream, I would just like to see more representation.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 21, 2021 20:35:00 GMT
BioWare said if they ever do, it’ll have to be the protagonist joining an established couple. Otherwise the number of flags needed makes it a programming nightmare.
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Post by Iddy on Aug 21, 2021 21:56:12 GMT
Not everything is entitled to representation.
Besides, imagine what a nightmare it would be for the devs and VAs to put that into practice.
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Post by phoray on Aug 21, 2021 22:53:37 GMT
Not everything is entitled to representation. That's an odd sentence that vaguely casts shade on the practice. back to OP: I recently said this on a different thread. Further adding... I mean, it'd be kinda cool to see polyamory in the world of Dragon Age but I don't feel like it needs to be there. Polyamorous people do often have to keep the arrangement on the down low, but it's more of a choice (to actively practice) than your born sexual orientation would be. I would want it to add something to the world? not just be there? NPC off screen (shades of poly) relationships: Alistair, Anora, Warden. Alistair, Warden, their side lover (lel or zev). That Orlesian couple that married then built a backyard house for the gay husband and his boyfriend. Zevran and Isabella being open to extra people in the bedroom with Warden and Hawke. I don't need more representation in the form as an Official Couple with the big label of poly to date. What I feel I don't actually like are the hard locks that DAI instigated where I cannot even bring up the subject of sleeping with another part of my crew. Because that thrusts Monogamy with instant exclusivity into the an unavoidable Default and that feels like the opposite of representation of the relationship spectrum that exists in reality. It lacks an important healthy relationship discussion that would support individual choice. To clarify all that verbiage, exclusivity should be negotiated, not assumed, even in real life. Flirting with Blackwall on the ramparts when you get to Shyhold is NOT a relationship agreement. but doing so literally locks me out of exploring other relationship flirtations because it locks you until almost 2/3 of the game is done. Real life example is that going on two dates with someone doesn't make them your their boy/girlfriend and you would actually consider them to be pretty unhealthy and clingy if they expected such. I liked how in DAO, if you flirted with multiple people, they noticed. And conversations, healthy ones, were had about expectations of the connection you had with the individual. Morrigan and Alistair say they won't share and establish their boundaries. Zev will say he's cool with sharing, but that it's immorral if the other end of the V hinge is not into it. This was sooooo progressive. DAI regressed this because, and I don't mean this in a "I hate bioware way", because it was easier. I just feel on this point that easier is not healthy representation of even monogamous relationships. They took such care to represent the power exchange with IB's relationship structure, it wasn't prefect, but it was progressive and neat and unique. We need to carry that representation for all relationship styles.
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Post by wispfox on Aug 22, 2021 0:48:08 GMT
"polyamorous people do often have to keep the arrangement on the down low, but it's more of a choice (to actively practice) than your born sexual orientation would be."
Depends on the poly person.
Personally, trying to be monogamous before I knew poly was an option just meant that I was miserable in relationships that were perfectly fine.
I don't know that I care if poly is included in a game, but I _do_ like games that make it reasonable to add in through mods. If you have flags to check for other relationships (aka - jealousy checks) that can be ignored through a mod, then I'm happy. (some games make that _really really_ hard to do)
Of course, part of this is that I rarely want to replay a game enough times to try out all the possible LI sequences, and somehow watching them on youtube is not at all the same as experiencing them as part of the gameplay.
Just finished my first (and probably only) MEA playthrough, and that _does_ have a mod to let you date anyone you want at the same time as everyone else. Sure, it's a bit glitchy at times, but it did mean that I got to see all the sequences without making myself play through a second time.
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Post by phoray on Aug 22, 2021 1:07:59 GMT
"actively practice" was carefully chosen to keep the spectrum of inherent mental poly wiring as an option.
I have had multiple crushes simultaneously since the 3rd grade. I consider my polyamory to be as close to an orientation as it probably could be. But just like a monogamous bisexual/pansexual can choose to make relationship promises with any single a/gendered person with the appearance of a heteronormative structure and still be pam/bisexual, so too can I choose to not practice multiple relation structures simultaneously (what would look like monogamy because I'm temporarily or purposely seeing only one person) while not cancelling out that I am still inherently Polyamorous.
For example, it I broke it off with my lover, I already know I won't seek out another relationship because I have some big career and life things to do that takes my focus that way and doesn't make enough energy to be go starting another relationship. I won't suddenly be monogamous with my husband. I'll just be a Polyamorous person dating one person at that time.
I am explaining what I meant by the statement, as your reply seems to imply I was defining polyamory with exclusion of the possibility for it to be more of an orientation.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 22, 2021 7:47:34 GMT
I liked how in DAO, if you flirted with multiple people, they noticed. And conversations, healthy ones, were had about expectations of the connection you had with the individual. Morrigan and Alistair say they won't share and establish their boundaries. Zev will say he's cool with sharing, but that it's immorral if the other end of the V hinge is not into it. This was sooooo progressive. DAI regressed this because, and I don't mean this in a "I hate bioware way", because it was easier. I just feel on this point that easier is not healthy representation of even monogamous relationships. I have to agree that I much preferred how relationships were handled in DAO. We had the same problem in DA2 as we had in DAI. You had to be careful who you flirted with, even once, or they assumed you were an item, as did other people. Isabella springs to mind as an extreme example of this. Choose the heart option when giving her the ship in a bottle and she turns up on your doorstep expecting sex. Choose another option and you don't get the relevant boost on the friendship/rivalry scale that could make the difference between her leaving and staying (this was literally the case I assure you). However, I also had a really odd experience with Merrill where I complimented her on her eyes, which I believe was back in Act 1, and then thought nothing further on it. Then, despite the fact that I had already cemented my relationship with Fenris in Act 3, Merrill's friendship/rivalry scale hit the point where her relationship could proceed and suddenly there she was on my doorstep thinking we were an item. This may have been a bug but it still highlighted the weird way the whole relationship thing was programmed to operate. I'd far rather they returned to the DAO system where romantic conversations were kept totally separate from general conversations, although approval ratings still did seem to unduly impact on whether people considered they were in a romantic relationship with you or not. As for the poly aspect, I also agree that so far as the V type is concerned, there are lots of examples in DA. It is just that for some reason they decided to exclude them as a possibility for the PC after DAO. In DAO my human noble married Anora but was quite open about continuing his relationship with Zevran, which the latter suggested might cause a bit of gossip. Admittedly I didn't actually ask Anora if she was okay with this but being married with officially acknowledged lovers was established practice in the medieval period, even gay ones, among the aristocracy at least. As exemplified by Leliana being introduced as the official mistress of the monarch of Ferelden at the Winter Palace. So I just assumed that since Anora became so fond of my Cousland by the end of DAA that she was okay with it. Alternatively, if she wasn't, that could explain why Zevran was no longer with him in DA2. So, I think I would agree that if they were going to bring back a poly option for the PC it would have to be with an already established couple, one a companion and the other perhaps an NPC who was happy with the arrangement, for it not to be unduly complicated when it came to writing and programming.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 10:45:48 GMT
This is an interesting one.
The line has to be drawn at some point, or all this game becomes is a dating simulator.
I am not against a Dragon Age dating sim.
...
Most of us want it all. If all was easy, we'd have it. The problem is feasibility, and time.
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Post by wispfox on Aug 22, 2021 16:13:10 GMT
"actively practice" was carefully chosen to keep the spectrum of inherent mental poly wiring as an option. I have had multiple crushes simultaneously since the 3rd grade. I consider my polyamory to be as close to an orientation as it probably could be. But just like a monogamous bisexual/pansexual can choose to make relationship promises with any single a/gendered person with the appearance of a heteronormative structure and still be pam/bisexual, so too can I choose to not practice multiple relation structures simultaneously (what would look like monogamy because I'm temporarily or purposely seeing only one person) while not cancelling out that I am still inherently Polyamorous. For example, it I broke it off with my lover, I already know I won't seek out another relationship because I have some big career and life things to do that takes my focus that way and doesn't make enough energy to be go starting another relationship. I won't suddenly be monogamous with my husband. I'll just be a Polyamorous person dating one person at that time. I am explaining what I meant by the statement, as your reply seems to imply I was defining polyamory with exclusion of the possibility for it to be more of an orientation. I appreciate the explanation, as that is indeed what I misunderstood. I'm currently only dating one person, largely due to timing of the ending of an existing second relationship right before COVID. So I get that!
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Heart
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: cardiaheart
PSN: Natigator1213
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Post by Heart on Aug 22, 2021 22:49:13 GMT
I'd love that! And if it's easier, having the protagonist join an established couple could be interesting! Especially if it's Viago and Teia If we have 8 love interests again, I think that would be a decent balance too? 2 straight, 2 bi, 2 gay, then a bi couple for the protagonist to join?
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Post by garrusfan1 on Aug 23, 2021 0:25:03 GMT
Like a few people said about it being our character getting into a relationship with a couple would work since that would be easier from a programing standpoint.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 23, 2021 3:37:09 GMT
It sounds like it would be a programming nightmare with a lot of flags. And the romances themselves have become so shallow. I'd prefer they spend their time telling interesting stories than worrying about which group gets represented.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 24, 2021 0:16:24 GMT
I don't see how what I said in here previously was remotely objectionable.
Clearly, media that offers wider representation of different groups IS "interesting" to some people, because, lo and behold, they're in here, asking for it.
To therefore then assert that increased representation runs counter to the priority of telling an "interesting" story is positing a false dichotomy, and is also just a shitty thing to say.
If you find representation of diverse sexualities "uninteresting", then congratulations! You have all of the art and media produced throughout all of human history up until now to peruse at your leisure! Enjoy!
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 24, 2021 1:00:35 GMT
I don't see how what I said in here previously was remotely objectionable. Clearly, media that offers wider representation of different groups IS "interesting" to some people, because, lo and behold, they're in here, asking for it. To therefore then assert that increased representation runs counter to the priority of telling an "interesting" story is positing a false dichotomy, and is also just a shitty thing to say. If you find representation of diverse sexualities "uninteresting", then congratulations! You have all of the art and media produced throughout all of human history up until now to peruse at your leisure! Enjoy! I hate to tell you, but getting published, unfortunately, is not a measure of quality. There's absolutely dogshit being published, every day. Just look at Hugo Award nominee Chuck Tingle. Author of such great books like - I Have No Butt And I Must Pound
- 20,000 Pounds Into My Butt
- The Great Gatsbutt
- King Dong Vs Dongzilla: Rumble In My Butthole - Domald Tromp Pounded In The Butt By The Handsome Russian T-Rex Who Also Peed On His Butt And Then Blackmailed Him With The Videos Of His Butt Getting Peed On
- Revengers Buttgame: Antguy Gets Small To Go Into Thamos' Butt And Then Gets Big And Hard
- Not Pounded By The Handsome Physical Manifestation Of My Twitter Suspension Because It Was Reversed
- Not Pounded In The Butt By Anything And That's Okay And many, many more.
What the fuck does any of this have to do with anything I just said?
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Andraste_Reborn
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Aug 24, 2021 1:36:07 GMT
1) Chuck Tingle is self-published, so at list of his titles doesn't really say anything about the publishing industry.
2) He was nominated for the Hugos as a joke by the Sad Puppies, and then proceeded to troll the Sad Puppies so well that people embraced him and nominated him some more. He's hilarious and also an absolute treasure of a human being.
3) I'm not sure what he has to do with anything. Maybe 'Pounded By the Physical Manifestation of the Time We've All Spent Waiting for DA4' could be a good Chuck Tingle title, though?
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 24, 2021 2:49:00 GMT
"I fuck a bunch of people" isn't a story or a character. Maybe a punchline, but not a character. The fact that someone thinks such a thing is important only showcases shallowness, an inability to view people as individuals. Rather, they are only a set of checkboxes which someone marks off based on their tribal fetishes. Even Kreia could speak of how limiting such a thing was.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 24, 2021 3:06:34 GMT
1) Chuck Tingle is self-published, so at list of his titles doesn't really say anything about the publishing industry. 2) He was nominated for the Hugos as a joke by the Sad Puppies, and then proceeded to troll the Sad Puppies so well that people embraced him and nominated him some more. He's hilarious and also an absolute treasure of a human being. 3) I'm not sure what he has to do with anything. Maybe 'Pounded By the Physical Manifestation of the Time We've All Spent Waiting for DA4' could be a good Chuck Tingle title, though? Who is Also a Triceratops Billionaire.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 24, 2021 3:15:28 GMT
"I fuck a bunch of people" isn't a story or a character. Maybe a punchline, but not a character. The fact that someone thinks such a thing is important only showcases shallowness, an inability to view people as individuals. Rather, they are only a set of checkboxes which someone marks off based on their tribal fetishes. Even Kreia could speak of how limiting such a thing was. Jesus fucking christ, where to start. - nobody in here is saying they want a story about fucking a bunch of people, but even if they do, so what? - the erotica industry exists and it makes a shitton of money. - why would anyone take your opinions on fiction and art seriously when you can't even recognize the validity of the short story format? - it's gobsmackingly ironic that YOU, of all people, would preach about "shallowness" and "box ticking" when you have repeatedly showcased a total unwillingness (if not a complete lack of actual capacity) to even attempt to understand why representation matters to people. - citing *fictional characters* who would hypothetically agree with you is just plain lunacy.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 24, 2021 3:31:55 GMT
Also, none of this is remotely fucking relevant to what I said, originally, which is that people who hate queer and poly representation so much have humanity's entire back catalogue of art and literature available to them, and they should go and fucking consume it instead of bitching about the tiny fraction of content being made today that dares to cater to anyone else.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Aug 24, 2021 5:51:44 GMT
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having a poly relationship in-game, but I hope that whatever character who's into poly relationships they write won't, well, do what a lot of poly people I've met IRL do: which is proselytize how poly is superior, go on about how humans aren't meant to be monogamous, and say that feeling jealousy in a relationship is inherently "toxic." It's pretty annoying, and I don't want to preached at in things I turn to for entertainment.
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FiendishlyInventive
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: BlueMarsalis79
Posts: 420 Likes: 644
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Aug 24, 2021 10:45:04 GMT
One of my best friends and exes' polyamorus, they don't all do that thing, although I have experienced that somewhat, and the relationship dynamic just makes me uncomfortable in general my comfort's not that important in the grand scheme of things especially in a roleplaying game.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 24, 2021 12:40:44 GMT
"I fuck a bunch of people" isn't a story or a character. Maybe a punchline, but not a character. The fact that someone thinks such a thing is important only showcases shallowness, an inability to view people as individuals. Rather, they are only a set of checkboxes which someone marks off based on their tribal fetishes. Even Kreia could speak of how limiting such a thing was. Jesus fucking christ, where to start. - nobody in here is saying they want a story about fucking a bunch of people, but even if they do, so what? - the erotica industry exists and it makes a shitton of money. - why would anyone take your opinions on fiction and art seriously when you can't even recognize the validity of the short story format? - it's gobsmackingly ironic that YOU, of all people, would preach about "shallowness" and "box ticking" when you have repeatedly showcased a total unwillingness (if not a complete lack of actual capacity) to even attempt to understand why representation matters to people. - citing *fictional characters* who would hypothetically agree with you is just plain lunacy. This whole topic began with "I demand a character who fucks a lot of people. I want to see it because muh representation." It's right in the header. This isn't an erotica game. You know what also makes a ton of money, manga. But we're not going to see a bunch of giant mecha robots in Dragon Age. Nor are we going to see it in the art style. You know what also makes a lot of money, the FIFA series. But we're not going to see soccer matches. You know what else makes a lot of money? Cookbooks. But we're not going to get a cookbook. I never said short stories weren't valid. You should really try not to make things up. No, I understand why people value such things. I just recognize it for what it is: Shallow, trite, driven by hatred. Further, why would I take your opinion seriously when you've admitted that internal logic within stories is not important. Kreia was Chris Avellone's author avatar. We're not going to agree. I value characters to root for, a conflict I care enough to resolve in a certain fashion, and twists and turns along the way. If those aren't there, I believe the story is lacking. You value diversity checkboxes and think people are evil for not cramming things full of checkboxes, even if such a thing wouldn't make sense.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 24, 2021 15:40:38 GMT
This whole topic began with "I demand a character who fucks a lot of people. I want to see it because muh representation." It's right in the header. They did not demand for a character who sleeps with a ton of people. There are a lot of polyamorous people who sleep with less people than a lot of monogamous people. For example say someone in a poly relationship has only been with those two partners, while someone who doesn’t do poly relationships has been with three or more. It’s not the poly person whose been with a lot of people.
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Post by mugwump on Aug 24, 2021 16:57:08 GMT
Look, given that Dragon Age has a rather large subset of fans for whom romance remains an important focus, coupled with the fact that I can't think of a single solitary game that allows for polyamorous roleplaying, I don't see why people shouldn't be at least free to request it without being dumped on.
For those who do want it, what would you want it to look like?
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bierkrug
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 383 Likes: 702
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Post by bierkrug on Aug 24, 2021 21:45:41 GMT
So where do you draw the line for representation in a game that is an ARPG and not a dating simulator? Do furries with a diaper fetish need representation? I'd rather they invest their developement resources into more gameplay oriented matters.
I can't think of a single solitary game that allows for polyamorous roleplaying
Pathfinder Kingmaker.
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